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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / February 2004McNeill's Latest "Column"
Here are my comments, sent to "Mr." McNeill, via email, about his latest farce a.k.a. District V Report in the April 2004 volume of Model Aviation. ***** I just read through your very brief report in the April 2004 issue of Model Aviation. Kudos, first of all, for actually having any planes pictured on your page! In the middle picture in the right-hand column, I see two men and two planes. In the caption, I see two names and one plane. I have never seen a Fubar 1000. I wouldn't know either Ron or Ray if I met them on the street. Is it possible for you to clarify this mystery for me? Who's who and what's what? Regarding the picture of "Kurt Reekstin" and his "SPAD-type" airplane. When you DO actually put an airplane picture in your column, you don't even bother to get the RIGHT information. The plane pictured is really a Balsa USA Stick 40+. Here is the Balsa USA website link: http://www.balsausa.com/kits/kit.htp?id=39&shopperid= This plane is all wood construction. The fuselage is primarily four sticks of spruce with a plywood cabin to enclose the radio and support the wing. The vertical and horizontal stabilizers (the big flat thing and the big tall thing in back) are made of balsa. Here is a review of the Stick 40+: Balsa USA Stick 40+ Trainer Read the second paragraph closely. It mentions ONLY wood, no unusual construction materials. The closest this plane ever got to a "gutter pipe" was on the shop where it was built. The Stick 40+ has been in plan and kit production a helluva LOT longer than SPAD-types have even been imagined. This is only the latest in your continual stream of inaccuracies, falsehoods and downright IGNORANCE of anything remotely resembling radio control airplanes. After all, YOU DON'T EVEN FLY. ***** I'm real glad I moved to District IV. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" McNeill's total lack of knowledge regarding the issues facing modeling impacts ALL AMA members - not just those of us that happen to live in his district. This is probably what prompted Don Lowe, former AMA President, who has seen McNeill in action up close and personal on the Executive Committee to come out and publicly support* Tony Stillman in his challenge to unseat McNeill in this years VP race for District V. Now the question, will the EC block McNeill's attempts to manipulate the election by drafting a spoiler candidate at the last minute as he did in the last election? Have AMA members seen enough? Will they, regardless of the district they live in, support a change and campaign to send an experienced modeler to Muncie from District V? Are District V members tired of seeing their money spent on meaningless club of the month awards made to every club he happens to visit on his jaunts around the district. Had enough? THEN VOTE! -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD *To AMA members of District 5 The AMA has been with us a long time, since 1936 when rubber power and gliders were the only things around. The intervening years have seen dynamic changes in everything that we do including aero modeling. The sophistication of today's scene is miraculous, bringing with it the pleasure of participation and responsibility for dealing with its potential in this ever-changing world. In short, the leaders of the AMA must be knowledgeable, involved and equipped to deal with a very complicated aero modeling activity unimagined in 1936. We must walk a narrow path to promote burgeoning technology and yet mesh properly with the rest of society. Anything short of non-biased good judgment based on a background of involvement and experience is unacceptable. Such a person with this involvement and experience is Tony Stillman. I have known Tony for many years and have always respected his knowledgeable cheerful acceptance of assignments to promote model aviation. His history of involvement in conduct of championships, functioning as team manager, functioning as president of a national modeling association, election to the AMA Hall Of Fame and participation as a competitor is exemplary. We need Tony and more like him to lead the AMA in this complicated world. I enthusiastically support him for election as AMA VP for District 5. Don Lowe former pres. AMA > Here are my comments, sent to "Mr." McNeill, via email, about his latest farce > a.k.a. District V Report in the April 2004 volume of Model Aviation. > > ***** snip > This is only the latest in your continual stream of inaccuracies, falsehoods > and downright IGNORANCE of anything remotely resembling radio control [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" >Have AMA >members seen enough? Will they, regardless of the district they live in, >support a change and campaign to send an experienced modeler to Muncie from >District V? rED, I'm in D VI, what can we do to keep McNeill out? Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL) remove POST in address for email >I'm in D VI, what can we do to keep McNeill out? I don't know, Dan. I'd almost move back into Dist. V just to vote against him. You know people in this Newsgroup, elsewhere on the NET, and personally who are in Dist. V, I'm sure. Talk to them - lobby the cause. BTW, McNeil has not answered my e-Mail to him yet. 4:00PM EST, 02/24/04. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Write to the EC urging a change in the nomination procedure to prevent incumbents from picking their opponents! > >Have AMA > >members seen enough? Will they, regardless of the district they live in, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL) > remove POST in address for email >I'm in D VI, what can we do to keep McNeill out? You could contribute to Tony's campaign. Every little bit helps. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber Wait a minute. I have been following this Jim McNeill thing, reading the posts, (Sometimes quite amusing) since I found this NG. Since I haven't had any direct contact with the individual, living just about as far away from him as you could get, and still be in the conventional USA, I reserved judgment. Did I read this right? This guy doesn't fly? Did he every fly? Does he know how to fly? Seems to me that a requirement for the job would be an understanding of the people you represent. IMHO. Bill > Here are my comments, sent to "Mr." McNeill, via email, about his latest farce > a.k.a. District V Report in the April 2004 volume of Model Aviation. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" Did I read this right? Yup. This guy doesn't fly? Nope. Did he every fly? Not that I know of. Does he know how to fly? I don't think so. His main claim to fame is taking pictures of people at events. "I don't take pictures of planes, because I like people better than planes." - McNeill. And going to antique stores with his wife. Some of the inaccuracies in the picture captions may be accounted for by the fact that he sends his wife around to take down the names and information in her little notepad while he schmoozes votes. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Please don't take this wrong, but I have to ask; Are you people nuts? Why wasn't this guy voted out of office a LONG time ago? Does he have dirty blackmail pictures of the majority of the RC pilots in his area? Does he buy votes? He certainly does not keep his job based on his expertise of the hobby. The whole world wonders Bill > Did I read this right? > Yup. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" >Please don't take this wrong, but I have to ask; Are you people nuts? Why >wasn't this guy voted out of office a LONG time ago? Bill, he manipulates elections and the EC. Red S. knows more than I do, ask him what happens. I've been in the AMA almost 25 years, and in District V for 20 of those years, and voted against him every chance I got. I don't have a clue why he keeps getting elected, except for rampant apathy. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Truly amazing. > >Please don't take this wrong, but I have to ask; Are you people nuts? Why > >wasn't this guy voted out of office a LONG time ago? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" > Truly amazing. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Dr.1 Driver > > "There's a Hun in the sun!" I'm new to this debate as well, though I already knew that this name was infamous around here. Let me make sure I understand this: This gentleman has never been an R/C pilot? I mean, I know there are guys who fly for years, then stop, but remain active in the hobby, vocally. This isn't the case? He has never actually been active in the hobby hands on? If this is so, why WOULD he want to be intimately involved in the politics of a hobby he has never participated in? There has to be more to it than this. Would $15,000 a year to spend pretty much as you please be of any incentive to a "retired" aluminum siding salesman who's wife is on a modest teachers pension? And he has participated in "HIS" hobby - which is holding his seat on the AMA Executive Council for over a quarter century. It seems to be his whole life and he is not about to give that up without a fight. Red S. > I'm new to this debate as well, though I already knew that this name was > infamous around here. Let me make sure I understand this: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > this is so, why WOULD he want to be intimately involved in the politics of a > hobby he has never participated in? There has to be more to it than this. > Would $15,000 a year to spend pretty much as you please be of any incentive > to a "retired" aluminum siding salesman who's wife is on a modest teachers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > AMA Executive Council for over a quarter century. It seems to be his whole > life and he is not about to give that up without a fight. You're suggesting something pretty serious there Red. What you suggest borderlines on fraud, misappropriation and a half dozen other possible charges. Can you prove it? Or are you just campaigning? Chuck McNeill claims two law degrees. With such he would take action if what I have reported were false. Can you get a copy of his expense reports from Muncie? We have requested them but they (Muncie) refuse to release them. Check your laws on disclosure for non-profit organizations. If McNeill thought he could make a case against me or anyone else that is aware of his malfeasance in office he would have done it long ago. Others have filed formal complaints about his dereliction of duty as a VP with the AMA, but his protector has managed to fend them off. "You elected him, he is your problem." Red S. > > Would $15,000 a year to spend pretty much as you please be of any > incentive [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Chuck Again, can you PROVE it Red? Reading all this about McNeill I have no doubt he is certainly past his time if indeed he ever had a time. But, all I see here is conjecture, stories and rumors. Nothing has really been documented and assembled to make a real case. This suggests the whole thing is nothing but sour grapes between the antagonists (you, Fred, etc) and McNeill. And it makes me wonder what your motives might be. You berate him for his antique hobby. Does everyone here do nothing but R/C? Doesn't anyone else hunt, fish, golf or whatever? What's wrong with antiques? And what an opportunity to be able to combine the two hobbies in such a way! However, if he does indeed spend very little time at R/C events versus the antique shops as many of you have suggested. Without some documented evidence you guys are simply blowing in the wind. If you really want to take him to task, organize and DOCUMENT it. Car and license plate arrival and departure times. Video tape him arriving and leaving with the tape date time stamped. Video tape his conversations. Especially when the tough questions are asked. Follow him to the antique shops. Make notes! Otherwise this all appears like you guys are just making a grab for some power for whatever reason. And are ion fact really no better or worse than McNeill. Just different! > McNeill claims two law degrees. With such he would take action if what I > have reported were false. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > Chuck >Again, can you PROVE it Red? You must be one of his toadys. >However, if he does indeed spend very little time at R/C events No "if" to it. I've been in the AMA for 25 years, and in Dist. V for 20 of those years. I've always been active in attending Fly Ins, Fun Flys, and Giant Scale meets in Dist. V and Dist IV. I usually go to between 4 and 10 events per year. One year I got to 15! I've seen McNeill at a total of 2, that's right, TWO events in all that time. At both events he showed up early on the first day, stayed about an hour, then vanished. Now I know he can't attend every event in his District, but you'd think the law of probability would have allowed me to see him more than TWO TIMES in 25 YEARS! >Especially when the tough questions are asked. No video tape needed. I've heard him in person. He is pathetically ignorant of anything concerning R/C or the current state of the art in ANY of the AMA categories or SIGs, INCLUDING his alleged area of interest, Free Flight. It's people like you, with their blinders on, who keep getting McNeill re-elected. Or do YOU, as you've suggested about others, have some hidden agenda or self-serving interest in keeping McNeill in office? Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" "Dr1Driver" <dr1driver@aol.com> wrote: (about C. O. Jones) > It's people like you, with their blinders on, who keep getting McNeill > re-elected. Or do YOU, as you've suggested about others, have some hidden > agenda or self-serving interest in keeping McNeill in office? Nah, Driver... C.O. doesn't have a political agenda. He's shown his true colors in this NG time and time again... he's just a blowhard who loves to boast, brag, and argue. Simple(minded) as that. He doesn't have a clue, just a keyboard. His apathy and arrogance is indicative of the problem in DV, however. I believe there's enough of us who can see McNeil for what he truly is to finally replace him this election. We can make the C.O.'s of this district even more insignificant. Vote Stillman! Jack I try no to reply to much of the hate and dissention here. However it would seem to me that instead of jumping on the person asking a question that you could direct him in the right way. I for one have been reading this news group for a long time. I'm not a heavy poster but I am tired of people that constantly try to be-little others about one subject. I think this runs people away from the newsgroup. I don't know if you have noticed but there isn't near as many posts as there were a year ago. Where have all the good people gone? Kinda makes me go hummm. I'm really getting tired of reading all this stuff and am my self wondering why I come here. I want to read about airplanes. Please step back and look at what we are doing to ourselves here. Eddie Fulmer AMA 63713 CD Guess if I felt that way I wouldn't read it! Byeeeee >I try no to reply to much of the hate and dissention here. However it would >seem to me that instead of jumping on the person asking a question that you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >63713 CD >  SignatureMike Gordon AMA 320990 Remember RC Pylon Racing, the ultimate thrill, when Sex and Drugs just ain't enough. Jack, I don't know either you or McNeill. But based on what I've seen, you present a better argument to keep people out of the AMA than McNeill does. I was simply trying to point out a weakness in your case resulting from a lack of documentation. But you and others don't seem to give a damn. Well I don't either! Maybe you guys should take your own blinders off and take a hard look at how you present yourselves here. At least McNeill keeps quiet on the internet. You guys OTOH are showing your stupidity and prejudices to the entire world. Is this what you want people to think of when they think of the AMA? I'm going to the barn where the sh.t is honest about itself! > "Dr1Driver" <dr1driver@aol.com> wrote: (about C. O. Jones) > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Jack >I was simply trying to point out a weakness in your case resulting from a >lack of documentation. You are evidenty incapable of reading Red's post where he states he DOES have the documentation. It's just that no one is interested in looking at it. > At least McNeill keeps quiet on the internet. Since his active participation in anything to do with actual flying, perhaps it's best that he do so. >Is this what you want people to think of when they think of the AMA? Actually, yes it is. We want to show the world that we are a bunch of concerned AMA members who want to fix what is wrong, and to change things for the better. And since you are NOT an AMA member, what the hell business is it of yours anyway? >I'm going to the barn where the sh.t is honest about itself! Where, perhaps, you were born and raised. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > >I was simply trying to point out a weakness in your case resulting from a > >lack of documentation. > > You are evidenty incapable of reading Red's post where he states he DOES have > the documentation. It's just that no one is interested in looking at it. You evidently can't comprehend the possibility that I might have made the above response before I got to Red's post. That or you want to ignore the possibility so you can continue your bashing! Bet that makes all of you feel like real men! However, the question then is, if you have the documentation, why don't you use it in the proper forum? I've been posting here for only a few months. One of the first posts I made was to suggest this McNeill bashing belongs somewhere else. However it would seem that you guys are more interested in beating up someone here than taking appropriate action. To the point where you even trash anyone who has the audacity to offer suggestions to improve your case. Must be an ego thing I suppose. I guess you have to stroke what you have available. Either way, from where I sit you give the impression that the AMA is little more than a bunch of a.sholes trying to take power away from a bunch of a.sholes. And you do this in an international forum to boot! Real smart! And then you expect people to take you seriously? Take a look at the participation to this thread. Most people here don't give a damn. But then, you've made it quite clear that you don't want anything other than total agreement with the beliefs you present. Well count me in with most people. When and if you replace McNeill and the others, I will be watching close for those earth shaking changes and revelations you and your group will no doubt produce in the model world. Until then, as the Brits would say, Bugger Off! Chuck > I was simply trying to point out a weakness in your case resulting from a > lack of documentation. But you and others don't seem to give a damn. Well > I don't either! B.S. You were being argumentative simply for the sake of it. You can't say you were arguing "a lack of documentation" because you don't have a clue how much documentation exist! You were simply attacking people that you don't know, concerning a subject you have admitted you know nothing about. You don't give a damn? Good! Stay out of this thread... stick to ones that concern something you do care about, eh? Jack... who does care about DV and our representation in the AMA. I don't give a damn Jack because I have yet to see any behavior from you and this group of whiners to make me want to give a damn! Think about it! You'll catch on eventually. > > I was simply trying to point out a weakness in your case resulting from a > > lack of documentation. But you and others don't seem to give a damn. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jack... who does care about DV and our representation in the AMA. > I don't give a damn Jack because I have yet to see any behavior from you and > this group of whiners to make me want to give a damn! Think about it! > You'll catch on eventually. That's because you jump to kill the messenger instead of listening to the message. The stuff you're hearing about McNeil is true, and the Pres. of the AMA tells us it's our (DV) problem. No stack of documentation will ever help, regardless of venue. He simply must be voted out. The voters have to be educated on the facts, and this NG *is* one appropriate venue in which to do that. Think about that... even you may catch on. Jack I'm done with you, CO... I'll expend my energy on someone who matters... who actually has a vote to cast. >I don't give a damn Jack because I have yet to see any behavior from you and >this group of whiners to make me want to give a damn! And what gives you the idea that anyone would want, or care if you do give a da_n? JM is an adequate AMA problem, so why should those that want a better AMA also want CO Jones, just another uninformed dolt only interested in profanity and bickering. C.O. you are definitely unique in one respect, and that is that you ARE DEFUNITEY NOT a SOB! Even a male dog gives a daily birth to your clones. Oooooooo! I bet you moved up a notch in the pack with those snazzy remarks. Next time try not to show your real intelligence and use a spell checker! > >I don't give a damn Jack because I have yet to see any behavior from you and > >this group of whiners to make me want to give a damn! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > C.O. you are definitely unique in one respect, and that is that you ARE > DEFUNITEY NOT a SOB! Even a male dog gives a daily birth to your clones. >Jack, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I'm going to the barn where the sh.t is honest about itself! Your "lack of documentation" stems from not having been a respondent in this news group for very long. The documentation not only exists, it has been included in formal charges preferred against McNeill. I preferred those formal charges. Me. With the documentation you so admire. Dave Brown dismissed the formal charges out of hand, period. plain and simple. Nothing was sent to the Executive Council for consideration. NOTHING. It would be relevant if you actually knew what you were talking about, but you don't. The documentation exists. Rat cheer on this machine and in a file almost four inches thick. And no, I am not going to publish it for your amusement or comment. The matter is closed, Dave Brown closed it, and he made it quite clear that there _will be no censure of McNeill_ by the Executive Council. Find another target, 'cuz you're WAY OFF about the documentation. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber All claims regarding McNeill have been documented. Timed stamped photos of arrival and departure times are on file. Copies of his letters threatening the opposition have been posted. Now C.O. Jones - you wouldn't be Kevin Kline back again demanding "proof" of what is obvious to most AMA members that have taken time to examine the situation would you? Since you are not a member of the AMA or live in District V why are you even involved in this discussion in the first place? If you are not Kevin Kline you sure do a great imitation of his style. Red S. > Again, can you PROVE it Red? Reading all this about McNeill I have no doubt > he is certainly past his time if indeed he ever had a time. But, all I see [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > power for whatever reason. And are ion fact really no better or worse than > McNeill. Just different! >If you are not Kevin Kline you sure do a great imitation of his style. Kline's back? Where's my garlic necklace?: Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > All claims regarding McNeill have been documented. Timed stamped photos of > arrival and departure times are on file. Copies of his letters threatening > the opposition have been posted. Then I would suggest you use it in the appropriate formats and keep this squabble away from here. >Then I would suggest you use it in the appropriate formats and keep this >squabble away from here. This is a routine discussion here - same posters, same comments... just suck in a few new guys from time to time to keep it going. Do a google search of this group to see the wasted bandwidth. Sorry you were the latest. Fred No apology necessary Fred. I've seen it before and knew what I was getting into. The optimist in me I guess. Well, no more! But I will be watching from the sidelines. Can't wait to see what earth shattering changes and revelations these guys make once they take over the AMA. Glad I have private land to fly from cause I don't see much future to the public stuff with this mob! > >Then I would suggest you use it in the appropriate formats and keep this > >squabble away from here. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Fred >Then I would suggest you use it in the appropriate formats and keep this >squabble away from here. Now you show YOUR ignorance. What is more appropriate here than exposing a DVP fraud to other AMA members and the whole modeling world? Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" There you go Gerald. He's just expressing an opinion and you're calling him ignorant!! That's what I am talking about. Can I fix it? No. But I can be nice. Hey, notice I didn't call you anything bad or disrepectful? We wouldn't teach our kids to respond to others like this, would we? I've read a lot of good posts from you and you have a lot of knowledge that you share willingly. thanks for that. Eddie Fulmer AMA 63713 Don't worry about it Ed. It's the way they get their jollies and feel like men. Stroking the ol' ego you know! :) > There you go Gerald. He's just expressing an opinion and you're calling him > ignorant!! That's what I am talking about. Can I fix it? No. But I can be > nice. Hey, notice I didn't call you anything bad or disrepectful? We > wouldn't teach our kids to respond to others like this, would we? I've read a > lot of good posts from you and you have a lot of knowledge that you share > willingly. thanks for that. Eddie Fulmer AMA 63713 What would be more appropriate! Waving your dirty laundry for all to see or taking it to the cleaners? > >Then I would suggest you use it in the appropriate formats and keep this > >squabble away from here. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" > Please don't take this wrong, but I have to ask; Are you people nuts? Not nuts, just too many don't have a clue as to what district they are even in much less who their VP is and what he is suppose to do in that role. >Why wasn't this guy voted out of office a LONG time ago? He has a very hard core of dedicated followers - to whom he can do no wrong. The numbers tell the story. Here are the numbers from the last election where at the last minute he set up a spoiler (from the same club as the challenger) to dilute the vote. The EC saw what was going on but were powerless to do anything about it. District V Jim McNeill 2065 42.5% of the vote (an 80 vote plurality) Manny Sousa 804 Tony Stillman 1985 Total 4854 representing less than 25% of the membership. Consider also that over 10,000 votes were thrown out because they were sent to Muncie rather than the auditors that were keeping tally. He has a reported $15,000 annual expense buget (your dues) and 36 issues of Model Aviation in which to campaign. >Does he have dirty blackmail pictures of the majority of the RC pilots in his area? No but he has been very active in sponsoring motions that will enable him to retaliate against his perceived enemies. AMA EXECUTIVE COUNCIL AGENDA ITEM Agenda Item No. 3g State Actual Motion: THE AUTHORITY OF A VICE PRESIDENT TO SUSPEND THE MEMBERSHIP OF AN AMA MEMBER. 1. A district Vice President shall have the power to suspend an AMA member's membership for a period of 5 days. This power shall be unequivocal. During the 5 day period the Vice President shall contact the AMA President and provide him with the details. If the AMA President disagrees with the suspension the member's membership is automatically reinstated. Originator(s) Jim McNeill Date: September 23, 1999 This one didn't make it past the rest of the EC. But he didn't give up and got this one through at the last meeting. Motion VII: It was moved to accept the procedures addressing complaints regarding Leader Members. COMPLAINTS REGARDING LEADER MEMBERS - Complaints regarding a Leader Member (LM) should be made in writing to AMA Headquarters, who in turn will forward to the VP of the District where the complaint originated or where the infraction occurred. The VP will review the written complaint and contact the complainant if additional information or clarification is required. The VP will then contact the LM, explain the complaint and request a response in writing. The VP will review the complaint and the LM's response and take whatever course of action is appropriate to resolve the problem, whether it is a warning or a revocation of the LM license. If there is a reprimand given, it should be in writing, and request the matter be reviewed by the Executive Council. The Executive Council could uphold the action taken by the VP, overturn it, or refuse to hear it. Now all he has to do is get one of his stooges to write up a complaint and he can come down on any Leader Member giving him grief. >Does he buy votes? Does giving out club of the month awards to every club he visits buy votes? Does giving out free first aid kits, Roberts Rules of Order, fire extiquishers, and permanently assigning AMA frequency monitoring equipment to individuals buy votes? Apparantly some can be bought with their picture in MA. >He certainly does not keep his job based on his expertise of the hobby. Apparently not a requirement for the job. > The whole world wonders. Will the 20,000 members in D-V wonder enough to vote this time? -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD > Bill >Now all he has to do is get one of his stooges to write up a complaint and >he can come down on any Leader Member giving him grief. I guess I'm on his sh.t list now. So be it...I ain't never backed down from a fight. AMA 156202 (25 year member) LM & CD for 20 of those 25 years IMAA 20615 (5 year member) Club Flight Instructor and Test Pilot, President, Secretary/Treasurer, Newsletter Editor I'll match records with him any day Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Now, see what you have here? I've been a member of AMA for many years and I am in District 1. Every year, I get the renewal notice and I read on it how you don't send the ballet to muncie, you send it somewhere else. So, 4854 people of the District V membership can read and follow directions and 10,000 of them can't? If half the people in the district can't understand and follow directions, then how do you expect them to vote for the better person? > > Please don't take this wrong, but I have to ask; Are you people nuts? > [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > > Bill The 10,000 ballots missent to Muncie were a national vote - for President as well as several District VPs. But still your point is well taken...You just can't dump the whole blame on District V or specifically Florida that has had other problems associated with ballots in the past. :-) Red S. > Now, see what you have here? I've been a member of AMA for many years and I > am in District 1. Every year, I get the renewal notice and I read on it how [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > understand and follow directions, then how do you expect them to vote for > the better person? I'll bet those 10,000 votes were all from Florida ;) Half the AMA membership in District V voting - you jest! :-) > I'll bet those 10,000 votes were all from Florida ;) > Half the AMA membership in District V voting - you jest! :-) > > > I'll bet those 10,000 votes were all from Florida ;) Naturally it was in jest (LOL). Now, I can honestly say that McNeill did make it to our last King Peach. I was not there personally to witness said attendance. The first King Peach I miss and he shows up. So now I can't bitch that he had never been to one of our events. It would be nice if he came to SEFF it is a pretty major event in his district. Make no mistake, I don't like his performance as "my" AMA representative and have NEVER voted for him, but he is our VP at the moment and I think he should have an interest in an event that draws 200+ pilots, especially when it is in his district. Jim It is interesting about McNeill. You hardly ever see any of his AVPs at any meets, or if they are they are pretty low profile. Of course a fair number of his AVPs are "retired" modelers or worse the aging wife of a deceased big name modeler. He seems to have a thing about lady AVPs, appointing them from clubs with a large membership - recently he has even had to make one of them an AMA and Leader member to comply with the AVP appointment requirements as they were not even an AMA member at the time. Then we see several of his better AVPs just disappear with no explanation. People like Malcomb Boartfield, a rather active modeler in the Atlanta area. . . gone. I have talked to Malcomb and he has no clue as to what happened. Nothing from McNeill. Same for long time AVP Ward Van Duzer (Control Line as I recall). Sires and Gregory in SC. Gone without a trace. Then when one of his AVPs (George Perryman) passed away there was no mention of it. In fact he was carried for several months on the AVP roster on McNeill's web page. Strange considering he was an icon in the free flight community and a former AMA VP himself. A fitting eulogy was finally written by a VP from another district. Before McNeill fired Lamar Blair as his webmaster (who had set up a District web site to be proud of) a call went out to all of his AVPs for a brief modeling resume to be featured on the web site. Less than half even responded - and McNeill apparantly had no problem with that. As for missing major meets - he failed to show at the world pattern championships in his own district. Anyone need proof of the above? -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD "James Beck" <jim@reallykillersystems.com> wrote in message > Now, I can honestly say that McNeill did make it to our last King Peach. > I was not there personally to witness said attendance. The first King [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jim >It is interesting about McNeill. You hardly ever see any of his AVPs at any >meets, or if they are they are pretty low profile. Of course a fair number [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >community and a former AMA VP himself. A fitting eulogy was finally written >by a VP from another district. Room had to be made for the latest AVP appointee, and Malcom had to go. He's in Georgia, y'know. Actually, the appointment was pretty slickly done. Not only did McNeill repay a political favor, he got an AVP who's a known fan and shifted another AVP slot away from Georgia. Puerto Rico, Tennessee, Mississippi, and South Carolina have one AVP each. Georgia and Alabama have two each. There are 10 AVPs in Florida. Before someone can be named by a DVP as his successor, that person must first be an AVP. Methinks the second shoe is about to drop. Methinks McNeill has reasoned that the Stillman campaign will succeed this Fall. Methinks McNeill wants to claim he never lost an election. Methinks he's going to retire in October, since that's within the three-month period when he can name a temporary DVP to succeed him directly. The membership would have no say in the matter, nor would the Executive Council be able to rule otherwise. Methinks he's about to "stick" AMA District V with a District Vice President who less than five years ago was not an AMA member, who actively campaigned against AMA in another model aviation organization, and mostly because he wants to foist a DVP irrevocably on the District without the membership of the district having any say in the matter. It would be one last demonstration that McNeill can do whatever he wants in District V. Methinks District V had better learn to spell "Gier", and soon. Methinks the last sentence in By-Laws Of The Academy Of Model Aeronautics, Article X, Section 2, Sub-section (1), is going to get a lot of scrutiny this Fall. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber > >It is interesting about McNeill. You hardly ever see any of his AVPs at any > >meets, or if they are they are pretty low profile. Of course a fair number [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > The House Of Balsa Dust > http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber Congrats Fred! I have been wondering when someone would notice. But in my attempts a being a good citizen I have refrained from pointing out the obvious. Can ANYONE name ANY sitting (read that as incumbent) DVP who has EVER been beaten? We do NOT elect DVP's, rather they are appointed and inherit their seats. I can probably name the next appointed DVP to hit the streets, but I can hear the screams of the bleeding liberals north of me now so I will wait a while longer before making that piece of trivia public.. Jim Branaum AMA 1428 a.k.a. Six_O'Clock_High@TargetLock.Guns > Congrats Fred! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > hear the screams of the bleeding liberals north of me now so I will wait a > while longer before making that piece of trivia public.. Pretty much works that way with the entire EC doesn't it? Right from DB down? As I recall, pretty much works that way in a lot of clubs too. So you guys keep supporting this organization because......................? And before any of you get on your soapbox and answer, seems to me a major drop in membership would send a clear signal. Easy to accomplish? Probably not. Worth attempting? That's up to you guys. I'm just a chuckling spectator. | And before any of you get on your soapbox and answer, seems to me a major | drop in membership would send a clear signal. Perhaps, but such a signal is almost certain to be misinterpeted. | Easy to accomplish? Probably not. Certainly not. I wonder what percentage of AMA members are AMA members only because the insurance is required to fly at the local AMA field? (I'll bet it's substantial.) And then there's the apathy angle. Most people don't care what happens in Muncie, as long as it doesn't affect them. To be fair, I'm probably one of those people, though I pay more attention than most I think. SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com Every day it's the same thing -- variety. I want something different. much works that way with the entire EC doesn't it? Right from DB > down? As I recall, pretty much works that way in a lot of clubs too. So > you guys keep supporting this organization because......................? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > not. Worth attempting? That's up to you guys. I'm just a chuckling > spectator. I thought you said you were finished with this discussion... > much works that way with the entire EC doesn't it? Right from DB > > down? As I recall, pretty much works that way in a lot of clubs too. So [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I thought you said you were finished with this discussion... Is that a question or are you making a statement? Either way, in some cases I simply can't help it when a good chuckle is in the offing! >Subject: Re: McNeill's Latest "Column" >From: "C.O.Jones" ifyouneedit@yougotit.com >Date: 2/27/2004 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <UVT%b.14974$UU.10500@lakeread01> >Is that a question or are you making a >statement? Either way, in some cases >I simply can't help it when a good >chuckle is in the offing! Chuckles the Clown? Close! - Try Kevie the Klown. :-) > >Subject: Re: McNeill's Latest "Column" > >From: "C.O.Jones" ifyouneedit@yougotit.com > >Date: 2/27/2004 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time > > >Is that a question or are you making a statement? Either way, in some cases > >I simply can't help it when a good chuckle is in the offing! > > Chuckles the Clown? > Close! - Try Kevie the Klown. :-) Interesting you think that Red and glad you do! I've been doing some research since the first suggestion of this. Learned a lot about you from it as well. Interesting indeed! >By-Laws Of The Academy Of Model >Aeronautics, Article X, Section 2, Sub-section (1), is going to get a >lot of scrutiny this Fall. Are these posted on the AMA website - I looked in the .pdf section but didn't see anything listed as AMA bylaws - I may have missed it. Thanks, FredD It may be found at the AMA web site under Publications - 2004 Membership Manual See: http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/memanual04.pdf -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD > >By-Laws Of The Academy Of Model > >Aeronautics, Article X, Section 2, Sub-section (1), is going to get a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > FredD >It may be found at the AMA web site under Publications - 2004 Membership >Manual Found it - thanks Red. FredD >Now, I can honestly say that McNeill did make it to our last King Peach. >I was not there personally to witness said attendance. The first King [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >he is our VP at the moment and I think he should have an interest in an >event that draws 200+ pilots, especially when it is in his district. Why would you expect him to show up at the SEFF when he didn't bother showing up at the 2000 F3A World Championships in Pensacola ? See Dave Brown's column in the January 2001 MA, entitled "We Dropped The Ball". Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber >Please don't take this wrong, but I have to ask; Are you people nuts? Why >wasn't this guy voted out of office a LONG time ago? Does he have dirty >blackmail pictures of the majority of the RC pilots in his area? Does he buy >votes? He certainly does not keep his job based on his expertise of the >hobby. >The whole world wonders And rightly so. McNeill is no doubt a master of political machinations. In the last election, he pulled the strings to get Manny Sousa nominated to the ballot. Sousa pulled enough votes away from Tony Stillman to insure McNeill's re-election. The difference was less than a hundred votes. McNeill has done that for decades. Whenever anyone posed a credible threat, McNeill pulls strings to get a pal nominated, and the pal pulls enough votes away from the challenger to insure McNeill's continuation in office. Last election was the first time in many years where the challenger even came close to unseating McNeill, and McNeill literally squeaked by one more time. I don't think it will work that way this time around. Too many people are paying way too much attention, and McNeill is already in hot water for lying to the Executive Council regarding his "trips", particularly in the case where he claimed to have been at an event all day and the CD has publicly stated otherwise. Methinks McNeill's days at the helm of AMA District V are coming to an end. I certainly intend doing all I can toward that end. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber There is some evidence that his modeling many years back was in the free flight area, particularly Pay Load events. There were also some ugly reports that he was not above rigging his entry to drop the pay load in his hand prior to launch and then reinserting it upon retrieval of the plane. To our knowledge he has never participated in R/C in spite of accepting an appointment as Assistant Director in the IMAA under his AVP Rod Gier. He had made the statement that he has never held a transmitter in his hands. This was prior to his 42 seconds on a buddy box when we thrust one into his hands in front of a crowd at an IMAA meet here a few years back. Even on the rare occasion when he could be cornered during his snap shot stops to discuss modeling he stated his interest was free flight but could not participate any more due to lack of free flight facilities. When asked about radio assist he just walked away rather than discuss it. -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD > Did I read this right? > Yup. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" Please accept my sincere condolences pertaining to your situation. I really have a hard time understanding how anyone with so little experience and involvement in this hobby could even be elected, much less keep a VP position for so long. I have to tell you, when I first started reading the posts about this guy, I thought there had to be two sides to the story, and he couldn't be as bad as some of you guys make him out to be. Now I see that it all falls into place and I find out that he is actually worse. How can someone who doesn't even participate in this hobby expect to represent the people who do? The fact that he doesn't even fly would be enough to disqualify him. Are you sure that he doesn't have dirty blackmail photos? That actually makes more sense. ;>) > There is some evidence that his modeling many years back was in the free > flight area, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Dr.1 Driver > > "There's a Hun in the sun!" >Please accept my sincere condolences pertaining to your situation. I really >have a hard time understanding how anyone with so little experience and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >disqualify him. Are you sure that he doesn't have dirty blackmail photos? >That actually makes more sense. ;>) Perhaps now you can start thinking about the whys and wherefores of some of the Executive Council actions in the past five or six years. With McNeill as a "yes man", any other council member can depend on positive support from McNeill if the agenda item has anything to do with restricting development of model aviation, limiting the ability of modelers to model, and so on. Recent case in point : TAM 5. Maynard Hill's stunning achievement. While beating the drum to limit model development, and in particular with a view toward prohibiting autonomous models, Dave Brown gladly "accepted" the position of "landing pilot" for the TAM 5 record attempt. He bellied up to the bar and got his mug in the photos. Immediately after the successful flight, Maynard Hill allowed as how he would never have attempted the flight in the first place had Muncie enacted the ban on autonomous models earlier than they actually did. Here's the kicker - the TAM project did not involve the US and did not involve the AMA officially. The flights departed from Canadian soil and the one successful flight terminated on Irish soil. Yet Maynard was apparently brow-beaten into submitting the record certification paperwork through >AMA<. Worse yet, TAM 5 itself is now property of AMA and resides in the Muncie museum. Why the hell is THAT ? It was a _world_ record, so why isn't TAM 5 in the Smithsonian ? Dave Brown and his cronies got their hooks into Maynard, and Maynard is self-admittedly very tired and is now fully retired. He said as much in the final STARS news letter, received by members this week. Another thing to consider is what is AMA (Muncie, that is) doing to protect our modeling interests and functionality from Washington ? Nada. Brown is beating the drum in an effort to make AMA's version of aeromodeling so innocuous that FAA and TSA won't even know it exists. Rather than fight for our 'rights' and insist that it's not the models that are the problem, it's the folks who would use models for nefarious ends that _are_ the problem, Brown is leading the EC down the path of "let's hide our activities and take such a low profile that The Fed won't notice we're flying stuff that is not under their control". As but one example of what the rest of the aeromodeling world is doing, check out http://www.followme.ch/KurtMarti/LaFerte2003?&page=1 Not only is AMA no longer world leader in aeromodeling (if in fact it ever was), by the time Brown and his venerable yes-man McNeill are done we'll all be enjoying indoor rubber events and flying models out doors will be a thing of the past. Alas, it might well be the very _recent_ past, unless we manage to elect some >leaders< in AMA. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber Fred Interesting, to say the least. TAM 5 really belongs in the Smithsonian. At the rate dues are increasing, the plane restrictions may end up being a moot point. Do they fly big planes in Europe? The first few photos I looked at, I thought I was a full scale meet! Bill > >Please accept my sincere condolences pertaining to your situation. I really > >have a hard time understanding how anyone with so little experience and [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > The House Of Balsa Dust > http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber >Fred >Interesting, to say the least. TAM 5 really belongs in the Smithsonian. At [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Do they fly big planes in Europe? The first few photos I looked at, I >thought I was a full scale meet! The link only reflects one such annual event. The European respondents herein can attest to the large models being flown far better than I. There are a couple of gents in the UK building true giants 'as we speak'. One is a four-turbine C-17 with a truly monstrous wing span, nearing flight test. There is at least one giant Vulcan on the tour circuit, and the same guy who built/flies the Vulcan is setting out to do an eight-turbine BUFF. Those projects are being documented in a couple of the UK magazines. With AMA's steadfastly insisting on models weighing less than 55 pounds, and a near-token "program" for models exceeding 55 pounds, I think it's quite fair to say that AMA is not interested in furthering model research with respect to large models. The 'leaders' in Muncie appear to be intent on crawling under the nearest rock rather than trying to assume any sort of leadership role. Personally I don't much care about dues, being a Life Member. OTHO, even at present rates, AMA dues amount to a mere pittance when viewed against the costs of putting a decently-sized model in the air, even if under 55 pounds. $0.02 Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber Fred, I feel that for me the pros to the AMA do not outweigh the cons and hence I am not a member. However, change might go a long way to encourage me and others like me to join once again. With that said though, I must caution you on making broad public assumptions as to what is or is not fact. See my inserts below. > Perhaps now you can start thinking about the whys and wherefores of > some of the Executive Council actions in the past five or six years. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with restricting development of model aviation, limiting the ability > of modelers to model, and so on. How do you know this is the case? How do you know the EC is simply not concerned with potential safety issues? Or perhaps much of this is a reaction, legit or not, to the terror threat and Homeland Defense issues? Have you asked them? > Recent case in point : TAM 5. Maynard Hill's stunning achievement. > > While beating the drum to limit model development, and in particular > with a view toward prohibiting autonomous models, Dave Brown gladly > "accepted" the position of "landing pilot" for the TAM 5 record > attempt. He bellied up to the bar and got his mug in the photos. I think the autonomous flight thing was something the AMA had no choice on. Much is being done in the UAV arena and among other things, what constitutes a model versus a UAV is being defined at levels higher than the AMA. Be thankful the Fed and the UAV industry is allowing the AMA participation in the matter. As evidenced by the fact that the AMA enacted the restriction. Next time you might want to ask the EC what was behind their actions. > Immediately after the successful flight, Maynard Hill allowed as how > he would never have attempted the flight in the first place had Muncie > enacted the ban on autonomous models earlier than they actually did. His choice! So? But again, even though he started in Canada, didn't he practice and develope the system in the US? Maryland to be exact? And had the AMA enacted the restriction, then by definition the vehicle would no longer have been a model but would have been a UAV instead. Politics and semantics I know but a fact of life none the less. > Here's the kicker - the TAM project did not involve the US and did not > involve the AMA officially. The flights departed from Canadian soil > and the one successful flight terminated on Irish soil. > > Yet Maynard was apparently brow-beaten into submitting the record > certification paperwork through >AMA<. How do you know he was brow-beaten? Did you ask him? Did you observe it first hand? Or could it be that since the AMA is the official US representative to the FAI in such matters?????????????? > Worse yet, TAM 5 itself is now property of AMA and resides in the > Muncie museum. > > Why the hell is THAT ? > > It was a _world_ record, so why isn't TAM 5 in the Smithsonian ? Last I checked, there is nothing in the Smithsonian related to models of any kind other than static display. And that includes the new annex out by Dulles Airport. Been there, seen it! Wouldn't have been nice had the AMA contrubuted to the annex funds for a separate wing for flying models? Think of the PR they could have gained being tied to the worlds most visitied museum like that! > Dave Brown and his cronies got their hooks into Maynard, and Maynard > is self-admittedly very tired and is now fully retired. He said as > much in the final STARS news letter, received by members this week. Said what? He's tired and retired? Or that DB and company got their hooks into him? I'm not surprised he's tired. The man is getting on in years. He's got to be one of the oldest living modelers around. > Another thing to consider is what is AMA (Muncie, that is) doing to > protect our modeling interests and functionality from Washington ? Again, have you asked them? Just this autonomous thing is to me one example where they're working for our interests instead of restricting them. So you can't fly R/C with an autopilot! Big deal! > Nada. > > Brown is beating the drum in an effort to make AMA's version of > aeromodeling so innocuous that FAA and TSA won't even know it exists. Might beat being grounded! Ever think of that? > Rather than fight for our 'rights' and insist that it's not the models > that are the problem, it's the folks who would use models for > nefarious ends that _are_ the problem, Brown is leading the EC down > the path of "let's hide our activities and take such a low profile > that The Fed won't notice we're flying stuff that is not under their > control". Again, how do you know? Or are these more of your assumptions? Have you ever dealt with the Federal Government? Other than the IRS that is? Not the easiest thing to work with and not smart enough IMHO to know the difference between a hobby and a threat. Especially when they're seeing UAV's being presented that are based on .60 size trainers, are smaller than anything you or I fly to include the Park Flyers, are man portable and, by the governments own admission, are being designed to carry weapons. Is it any wonder the ignorant government worker panics at the sight of a whole organization of potenital airial terrorits? We know we're not but, can we guarantee that everyone in our ranks is here just for hobby interests? > As but one example of what the rest of the aeromodeling world is > doing, check out http://www.followme.ch/KurtMarti/LaFerte2003?&page=1 Then I suggest you move to France and enjoy! > Not only is AMA no longer world leader in aeromodeling (if in fact it > ever was), by the time Brown and his venerable yes-man McNeill are > done we'll all be enjoying indoor rubber events and flying models out > doors will be a thing of the past. And perhaps invest in a large, open structure so you can fly indoors! But either way, consider what you say. You make some broad accusations here without evidence of having questioned all sides. Chuck >> Brown is beating the drum in an effort to make AMA's version of >> aeromodeling so innocuous that FAA and TSA won't even know it exists. > >Might beat being grounded! Ever think of that? <SNIP> Lemme make sure I got your 'argument' right . . . . YOU are warning ME about the possibility of being GROUNDED ? YOU ? Oh, wow. After YOU called ME >paranoid< last November when I warned YOU to watch out for federales bearing arms showing up on your private flying site ? Sure thing, bub. I agree with a few other folks herein. I conclude you just want to be argumentive, and it doesn't matter what any of us actually know, conclude, or observe with respect to AMA, as far as you're concerned, we don't know what we're talking about. Go 'way, Kevin. Yer latest moniker has been outed. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber This guy sounds like a monumental dickhead. Holy mackerel, if a quarter of what is alleged here is true, something reeks in District V. What happens when he is taken to task face to face? Mike D. relatively peaceful MAAC member >This guy sounds like a monumental dickhead. Holy mackerel, if a quarter of >what is alleged here is true, something reeks in District V. What happens >when he is taken to task face to face? Before you can take him to task you must first _find_ him. That's normally done by checking the antique shops in the vicinity of a large-ish model event anywhere in the Southeastern US. If you do succeed in finding the curmudgeon, and if he perceives you have anything in mind except letting him take your 'snap', he scurries away as fast as he can totter. Been there, done that. T-shirt never did fit. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber What's wrong with antique shops Fred? Would you rather he was sitting next to you in the bars? Easier for you to find but not as coherent. > >This guy sounds like a monumental dickhead. Holy mackerel, if a quarter of > >what is alleged here is true, something reeks in District V. What happens [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The House Of Balsa Dust > http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber >What's wrong with antique shops Fred? Would you rather he was sitting next >to you in the bars? Easier for you to find but not as coherent. Sitting next to me in the bars ? Always taking cheap shots even when you don't know anything about your "target". Never said there was anything wrong with antique shops, and you know it. What's wrong is the way McNeill is reputed to have billed AMA for trips to sanctioned events, has claimed to have BEEN at those sanctioned events for a full day, yet several AMA members (including the CD for at least one such event) have made public statements that McNeill's claims are FALSE, that he spent less than an hour at the event, snapped a few photos, and disappeared. THAT is what's wrong with antiques, vis a vis McNeill. Someone mentioned the word fraud, somewhere in this thread . . . Oh. That was YOU, wasn't it ? You recognize that things might not all be sweetness and light with regard to McNeill's antique "thing", but folks down here who _HAVE SEEN_ McNeills shenanigans can't make the same observation ? Go 'way, Kevin. Yer latest moniker has already been "outed". Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber > Always taking cheap shots even when you don't know anything about your > "target". Why not Fred? You always do! And that is my point! >That's normally done by checking the antique shops in the vicinity of >a large-ish model event anywhere in the Southeastern US. Does this guy or his wife sell antiques for a living? I wonder if he travels on the AMA dime and then writes the travel as his wife's antique sales business travel. Otherwise, is he independently wealthy? In that case he could take some tax breaks related to charity work. Barry >Does this guy or his wife sell antiques for a living? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Otherwise, is he independently wealthy? In that case he could take >some tax breaks related to charity work. I dunno 'bout his financial wherewithall, but the notion of traveling on the 'AMA dime' and writing it off as an expense under another heading certainly is an interesting point. I doubt we'll ever get an explanation of that. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber No one has been able to take him face to face. He ducks out and then writes letters like this one. I have included the reply from Hall of Fame member (Deceased) Jim Duckworth. Note his "promises" in the letter. None of which ever materialized. 4/28/98 From the Dixie Aeromaster Inc. Newsletter William W. Atkins 467 W. Seminole Rd. Byron, GA 31008 A Rebuttal by Jim McNeill, District V Vice President 1998 is an election year for the AMA District 5 Vice Presidency. I currently hold the office. I am running for re-election. A few weeks ago a Mr. Norman Deputy announced his intention to run also. Curiously, he mailed all of my Associate Vice Presidents a package asking them to nominate him for the office. Contained in the package was a spoon-fed pre-worded nomination addressed to the Nominating Committee. Also an envelope with a 32c stamp on it pre-addressed also. All the Associate VP had to do was follow instructions. 1) sign it; 2) include his or her AMA number; 3) mail it. I have 4 of these in front of me now. To contained the same wording as the one appearing in your DIXIE AEROMASTERS NEWSLETTER now. Only one nomination is necessary. This is all very new. Anyone experienced in AMA matters knows the relationship between a Dist. VP and his Associate Vice Presidents is generally based on trust and a long friendship. At first blush I decided to stay out of it and let Deputy run his own business. Now, however, he has changed his story and has become bolder. For me to remain silent is an error. In his pitch he says: "we as a group, do not communicate very well with each other, and we as AMA members, feel that we are very far removed from the District Vice President, Associate Vice Presidents, the AMA Executive Council and the policies they make on our behalf." My response to this is: RUBBISH. POLITICS. Politics at its lowest level. You, the member, are not very far removed from me, and I am not very far removed from you. In each issue of your Model Aviation magazine I have my address, my phone number, my FAX number, my E-mail jemcneill@juno.com, now my own WEB PAGE. http://www.scott.net/~ama. I am starting a District Newsletter to all editors, exchange, and contacts of the 318 clubs in my District. This last go-around I have been your Dist. VP for 8.25 years. After each of the previous 33 council meetings, I have immediately reported to you in your magazine exactly what happened, the motions etc., and how and why I voted as I did. Go back and check your old magazines. I am the only Council member who has done so. I have stopped this practice, it is no longer necessary. Today we have a fine new President and very experienced Executive Director, so now Hdq'ers publishes in detail the minutes in the next issue. This was not the practice when I take office in 1990. Some of you may recall the national furor that erupted when I reported the proposed land purchase in Visalia, Cal, using AMA dues money. Let me make my point in another way. For several years I have given away AMA Rule Books, Booklets on Flying Sites, videos for acquiring flying sites, videos for club entertainment at meetings, books of "Roberts Rules of Order". I have mailed out free hundreds of these items. Not one single time has any members complained I was slow in mailing or to quote Deputy "very far removed." I am as close to you as your telephone, or your FAX machine, or your computer, or your mail box. Deputy's mention of a WEB PAGE for the District is excellent. I already have one. I am scanning newsletters to show them on the WEB. Currently I have 10 megs and more if I need them. My secret plan is to show 1 page for each of the 318 clubs in my District that want me to. I will group them by states. Mr. Deputy's credentials in his statement appear quite impressive. He says: NORMAN DEPUTY LEADER MEMBER SCIENTIFIC LEADER MEMBER ADMINISTRATIVE He is indeed a Leader Member but he has not told you how long he has been a Leader Member. He became a Leader Member March 18, 1998. Last month. When Hdq'ers received his first nomination from James Duckworth on March 17 (dated 3-10-98) he was not yet a Leader Member. He became one hours later. Also he states: "...an avid model enthusiast for 10 years..." I'm sure he's telling the truth here but he does not say how long he has been an AMA member. He joined AMA on June 10, 1991. He has been an AMA member for 6 years and 10 months. I have been an AMA member since its inception. In 1939 I was told to stop painting NAA & my membership number on the right upper wings of my models and henceforth put AMA & the number instead. The American Academy of Model Aeronautics had dropped the American word off and was now Academy of Model Aeronautics. I had been a member of NAA for years before then. I have been on AMA's Board of Directors, its Council, for 25 of the last 27 years. Longer than anyone else in AMA's history. If Norman Deputy accesses to the office of Vice Presidency of District V I hope he treats you better than he has treated me. Last Fall he called me on the phone and requested I put an AMA booth in the then forthcoming Southeastern Model Show at Perry, Georgia. I then got in my car and drove to the Georgia Aircraft Modelers Assoc. club meeting in Warner Robins where Deputy was the Club Secretary Treasurer. I offered an AMA booth etc., never at ant time did he as Show Coordinator offer ANY pledge of assistance from any members of his club to help AMA. He said they would all be busy. A very distinguished old-time FFer offered to help but is in poor health. I sent one of my Associate VPs to monitor the booth, drove over myself to see. Whammo!!! SURPRISE!!! The AMA display wasn't in the main room at all where all the action was taking place. It had been sullied off into a side building. I didn't understand at the time but I understand now. As a direct result of the manner in which Norman Deputy treated the Academy of Model Aeronautics at his Perry Show a committee of 3 has been developed here in Birmingham and are creating a Model Show beginning in Jan or Feb of next year in the old Fairgrounds buildings. One of these halls is 3 times the size of the Perry, Georgia one. My grateful acknowledgements to your fine Club Editor Mr. Bill Atkins and your fine Club President Mr. Jim Harris in allowing me this rebuttal. copies; All of my Associate VPs. From Tom Rhodes After Reading the "Rebuttal" by Jim McNeil to Norm Deputy announcing and campaining for Dist V VP I had to say a few things. Norm Deputy has been nominated for AMA Dist V VP, He has announced he is running and solicited support from the AVP's in his district. Put a web page with a campain statement, and in general has started a clean campain for the AMA District V VP. Norm is actively seeking the AMA District V VP position. Upon seeing some compition Jim McNeil has made a personal attack against Norm. I find it appalling that he would stoop to such petty negative politics. Jim was also a little liberal with the facts in his "Rebuttal". Jim Said - Not one single time has any members complained I was slow in mailing or to quote Deputy "very far removed." It took several people incuding myself over 6 months for him to even consider doing anything with the internet. His web page has just now gone up. I called him and sent him many letters over months to get him to say what if anything he planned for District V on the internet. Several emails, faxs, and phone calls to him went Ignored, and he even made dispariging remarks about myself and others because we were pushing him for some kind of action or at least his stance on the District V internet presence. It took requests on other VP's to get Jim to respond. Jim will answer requests and send info as long as it doesn't require him to think or make stand on an issue. Otherwise he has and will ignore you in hopes that you will go away. Some of you may remember the monthly letters to Jim I put on the District VIII email list last year He was brought into the information age kicking and screaming. He had actually dropped doing anything on the net untill Norm 's nomination for VP. Norm may have just become a "Leader Member" but he's obviously a leader in model aviation. Look at his resume at his web site. He's only been in AMA a little more than 6 years. He's been active for that 6 years. The question is does Jim have 30 years of experience or 1 year of experience 30 times? Jim doesn't fly anymore. His only activity is AMA VP. That might be good but he doesn't really do anything and if anyone does or says anthing critical of any of actions or decisions he takes it as a personal attack. Dissagree with him or question one of his decisions and he fears that you're out for his job. Norm Deputy really is out for his job, so Jim is attacking the man and stretching the facts on the communication issue. Jim is a nice guy but he's not a leader, he doesn't campain for our District but appears to look out for his position as an AMA VP and not look out for the AMA members of his district. He's the consumate AMA politician holding his position longer than anybody in AMA history. I offered to help and publish and AMA District V web site with links to all the clubs in the district. Put up Club Newsletters, and put up Jims notes and information a year ago. I even got a IP to donate the server space for the site. Jim didn't know what I was offering, and told me he didn't think it was a good idea. He's changed his tune and it's now "Jim's Secret Plan" ..Tom Rhodes AMA531770 tomr@xtalwind.net From: Jim Duckworth <jduckworth@msn.com> A District VP Wakes Up Well I guess we all know now what it takes to wake up a District Vice President. Just challenge their hold on the position. In my association with AMA, and since I am not running I will not bother you with letter and verse of how many years that is, this is the fastest action I have seen on the part of any District V VP, regarding anything. Incidently where did Jim McNeill get the information regarding the where, when etc of Norm Deputy's association with AMA? I wonder if this information regarding McNeill's "history" would be available to anyone. Who cares? Right now we need an active administrator with a desire to become involved in the administration of the hobby and one who can provide the membership with a positive forward looking agenda. We already have an administrator who has sat on the position currently for 8.25 (?) years, but who has resisted coming into the current computer age, and who insists on pointing backwards to the things he has done, but has no statement indicating what he is going to offer in the future. Maybe that is a little hard, because Jim does indicate he has a "secret plan" to put all newsletter front pages on his web site. Several things in Jim's rebuttal require a response. I detected some concernment in the rebuttal letter due to the fact Norm notified all 17 or so of Jim's AVPs ( whose relationship is "based on trust and a long friendship) of his intention to run for the office. What a better way to start your association with the membership than to notify all the associates of your intentions, and include a self addressed envelope for their convenience. Jim explains it as "this is all very new." Bingo, perhaps Jim just got his first clue as to a great way to service your constituency "convenience." In the rebuttal Jim indicates that 4 of his AVPs forwarded the info Norm sent them to him. This indicates the 4 did not desire to nominate Norm. Jim needs to not worry about the four, but think of the other 13 that may have some desires for a change in District V. Jim goes off in the rebuttal about Norm's statement that "we do not communicate very well with each other" as rubbish, and then indicates his address on the Model Aviation District V page as his communication tool with the membership. I'll let someone else determine which of the two statements are "rubbish." Jim's web page did not exist several weeks ago when Norm wrote his concerns regarding communication amongst AMA people. Norm has had a web page up and running for about 2 years now and has been communicating and interacting very well through this medium with club members, interested modelers and others for these many years. |
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