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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / April 2004Right - Left - Your OTHER Right!
I was asked to help a guy out with his plane, a Four Star 60 with a new Saito 100. The plane had flown before, he swapped engines and radios. I dialed in the engine and did a pre-flight, Up elevator, right rudder, Right aileron. Everything fine, so he taxied out and flew the plane. Immediately after take off, he started shouting about reversed aileron. ??? Amazingly, he managed to get the plane back intact. First time I have seen this happen without destroying the plane. Since I had helped him, and the controls had all moved to their proper places, I was quite upset. Before he even touched the plane on the ground, I said "Give me RIGHT aileron." Sure enough, the right aileron moved up. Still puzzled, I had him do it again, this time I had him hold it and looked at his transmitter. He was holding the stick FULL LEFT aileron. One week later, he was again getting ready to fly, I walked by and said "Give me right aileron" this time the right aileron moved down. He was still holding full left. I now call him "Lefty" In the future, when asked to do a pre-flight, I will now hold the transmitter myself. > I was asked to help a guy out with his plane, a Four Star 60 with a new > Saito 100. The plane had flown before, he swapped engines and radios. I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > left. I now call him "Lefty" In the future, when asked to do a pre-flight, I > will now hold the transmitter myself. I had a student (I have dropped him because he does not follow my safety rules) who had a similar problem. I would ask for a right turn and he would go left. When I called for a correction he would swear he went right. The other thing he would do was 'lean' on the stick and swear he was not touching it and there was something wrong because the plane was turning or climbing or diving. It became clear that he has some medical problems that were causing most of the problems. Until he began doing the exact things I told him not to for safety reasons, I was committed to fly with him until he worked it all out. | Immediately after take off, he started shouting about reversed | aileron. ??? Amazingly, he managed to get the plane back | intact. First time I have seen this happen without destroying the | plane. To be fair, you can certainly fly with reversed ailerons. It's mostly just a matter of realizing that that is the problem *before* you make a lawn dart of the plane (which usually happens pretty quick, because people start correcting more and more when the planes goes the wrong way.) But once you realize that's the problem, and make the mental adjustment (some can do that in a few seconds, some can't), you're usually fine. Of course, it's probably a lot easier on a plane with generous dihedral, where letting go of the sticks will make it all better, at least until you have to turn. And if you have a rudder, you can try that. It's kind of funny -- flying at the local park, people will come out with their new Firebird or similar airplane and take off and fly just fine -- but if you look more carefully, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance that at least one of their sticks are completely reversed. But since they're used to it that way, they fly that way just fine.  SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com `Some guy hit my fender the other day, and I said unto him "Be fruitful and multiply". But not in those words ...' -Woody Allen > It's kind of funny -- flying at the local park, people will come out > with their new Firebird or similar airplane and take off and fly just > fine -- but if you look more carefully, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance > that at least one of their sticks are completely reversed. But since > they're used to it that way, they fly that way just fine. Been there, done that. I had one of the Bill Evans Simitar designs I mis-programmed. The aileron part of the elevons was reversed. Left stick - went right! I think "OK, steer backwards!" I managed to get it down intact. Morris > The aileron part of the elevons was reversed. Left stick - >went right! I think "OK, steer backwards!" Has anyone thought of the most simple solution??? Steer with the rudder until you get it down! Let's learn to use that LEFT stick, people. Even a wing with no dihedral will respond to the rudder enough to steer and land safely. :) Of course, this wouldn't work on a Scimitar, since I believe it doesn't have a rudder. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" When this happened, one of the club instructors, who was standing close to him, told him to use the rudder. He ignored him completely. After he landed, the instructor asked "Didn't you hear me about the rudder?" The guy said he heard him, but it didn't register. A couple of years ago, a guy was flying a way over powered stick. He was ALL over the sky going real fast. After a few minutes, he stated that his ailerons were reversed. Watching the plane, I said "Gee, first thing I would do is pull back on the throttle" just as the plane hit the ground. The only time this happened to me, I had a Goldberg Cub. I had two radios, a 4 channel and a 6 channel for a different plane, both on the same frequency. I took off the cub with the wrong radio. (Only difference was the ailerons) and managed to turn it so it was going away from me. I saw that the land in front of it was clear, so I killed the engine and let it glide in. Seemed to take about an hour for it to finally land, but I managed not to hurt the plane. I do the Left, Right, Up, Down stick mixing now before EVERY flight. > > The aileron part of the elevons was reversed. Left stick - > >went right! I think "OK, steer backwards!" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" >When this happened, one of the club instructors, who was standing close to >him, told him to use the rudder. He ignored him completely. After he landed, >the instructor asked "Didn't you hear me about the rudder?" The guy said he >heard him, but it didn't register. Yea, I've seen many students go brain dead. They don't have the experience to think fast. That's when a competent pilot or instructor should TAKE the TX out of the novice's hands and land the plane himself. Better a P.O.ed novice than a hurt bystander, damaged property, or crashed airplane. > I do the Left, Right, Up, Down stick mixing now before EVERY flight. Even though no one but me handles my TX, I also do this simple check. I was at a fly in several years ago and the impound guy (a rank novice) ws "helping" everyone by re-centering the trims!!! Have a routine: Right aileron, left aileron, up elevator, down elevator, right rudder, left rudder. Say it aloud while you move the sticks: "Right aileron UP, left aileron UP, elevator UP, elevator DOWN, rudder RIGHT, rudder LEFT." Even if something isn't reversed, linkages break and servos fail. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Speaking of Impound reminds me. A couple of years ago, a new member volunteered to run transmitter impound. You would have had to know this guy to really appreciate the story, he was the kind of guy who did not listen to anyone. Anyway, I took my new 9ZWC-2 transmitter, in the case and gave it to him without thought. Later I happened to be by the impound and was looking at the variety of transmitters when one particular one caught my eye, another 9ZWC-2. Since these transmitters had just been released, and I happened to luck out and get one, I was surprised to see another one, but it was a big meet and it was possible. I stared at it for a good minute when the light bulb came on. I was looking at MY transmitter! The guy had opened the case, removed my transmitter and set it on the shelf. The club president happened to be standing right next to me and took in the whole thing. I didn't say anything, I just walked away. The president had him put the transmitter back into the case. I told the pres it wasn't a big deal, but if I hadn't wanted it to stay in the case, I wouldn't have brought it over to him IN the case. > >When this happened, one of the club instructors, who was standing close to > >him, told him to use the rudder. He ignored him completely. After he landed, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" I hate CATS!! C=controls A=antenna T=trims S=switches. I hate cats!! But I always do one when I fly. Everytime. Not just the first flight of the day. Saved my top flight P-51 last time I took it out. I teach it too. If you don't do your cats you don't get any instruction. Eddie Fulmer > > The aileron part of the elevons was reversed. Left stick - > >went right! I think "OK, steer backwards!" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" That even works on high wing loaded birds with low wings, IF you slow down. Part of the reason to do a complete test during the initial flight is to find out exactly what the response to rudder only is at various speeds (full and slow). This issue can be quite confusing at times - a while ago I volunteered to be a student on an instructors training day (ie guys were learning to be instructors, and the would-be intructor was being taught how to teach me) While as a very raw and hopeless-flyer I appreciated the opportunity to gain extra tuition, it was quite interesting to see the way in which people interpreted the right and left commands. When the Master Instructor said 'left' he meant stick left. When the trainee instructor said 'left' he meant turn the plane to ITS left. It took them a while to work out why I seemingly didn't follow instructions, and resulted in some seemingly strange manouveres. Incidently, while both these guys were good at flying, their teaching skills (especially the Master Instructor) were woefull. One telling me this, and the other telling me that, made it very difficult at times. But still, I do appreciate their giving of their time and effort on behalf of beginners like me. David > | Immediately after take off, he started shouting about reversed > | aileron. ??? Amazingly, he managed to get the plane back [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > `Some guy hit my fender the other day, and I said unto him "Be fruitful > and multiply". But not in those words ...' -Woody Allen > This issue can be quite confusing at times - a while ago I volunteered to > be a student on an instructors training day (ie guys were learning to be [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > David David, It seems that many of us fail to put our flying experiences in words when we are teaching students. Very few of our 'instructors' have ever had a course in education which would correct some of their deficiencies. The better instructors figure out they are weak and change. When they find, hear of, or see better methods they adapt. Only problem is that it takes one willing to put his/her ego away and admit they don't know it all. In this hobby, that is a rare breed. My comment "their teaching skills (especially the Master Instructor) were woefull" was more about the process of instruction these guys employed, not so much about the content. Perhaps I should also mention that in a previous life I taught training proceddures and techniques at a University. The sort of things where they could have done better were related to giving me a 'big picture' of what I would be required to do, of getting together and working out how they would teach before the teaching me session, of deciding which of them would give ME directions, working out a set of terms common to them both, of determining and FOLLOWING a protacol - eg Master Instructor tells learner instructor, and learner instructor tells me. Also, doing an assessment of my current abilities, then working with me to develop a set of learning goals for each session would have been very helpful, as would have been the two instructors setting out clear session goals for the trainee instructor. However, note that despite these critical comments, I do appreciate the time and effort these guys devote to helping out us beginners. David > "QuietDavid" <davidxxx@REMOVE-ME-TO-REPLYtpg.com.au> wrote in message > .... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > to put his/her ego away and admit they don't know it all. In this hobby, > that is a rare breed. David, It is called pre and post flight instruction. . . Many are incapable of it but some just never heard of the concept. I got my 'skills' from college courses and some specific aviation knowledge I share from G.A.. > My comment "their teaching skills (especially the Master Instructor) were > woefull" was more about the process of instruction these guys employed, not so [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > to put his/her ego away and admit they don't know it all. In this hobby, > > that is a rare breed. There are few things as difficult as teaching something that has been second-nature to you for a long time. Example, a few years ago i tried to teach my wife to ski. I had learned when i was 3 years old, so i didnt even have a clue what it was like NOT to know how - and more importantly, what a newbie needs to know. > David, > It is called pre and post flight instruction. . . Many are incapable of it [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > hobby, > > > that is a rare breed. HI MIKE The most glaring example of this I have found is computer nerds trying to explain/show stuff to learners - click click, screen sceen mouse mouse - all faster than a learners eye can follow. Many learners just give up and say "yeh, OK" and go away confused, and sure that computers are too hard. David > There are few things as difficult as teaching something that has been second-nature to you > for a long time. > Example, a few years ago i tried to teach my wife to ski. I had learned when i was 3 years > old, so i didnt even have a clue what it was like NOT to know how - and more importantly, > what a newbie needs to know. |
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