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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / August 2004



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DURAPLANE 20 CG??

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David Hopper - 21 Apr 2004 04:36 GMT
I'm in the process of resurrecting and old DuraPlane 20 I was giving
and was wondering where the recommended CG would be?

I've found the manual for a 40 online but not for the 20 (yet).

Any help appreciated..
 
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David - WD4JKH

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Dr1Driver - 21 Apr 2004 11:33 GMT
>I'm in the process of resurrecting and old DuraPlane 20 I was giving
>and was wondering where the recommended CG would be?

Duracrap planes tend to be heavy.  This mandates a more forward CG location.
I'd put it between 25% and 28%.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Frank Costa - 21 Apr 2004 22:12 GMT
Rather than insult his plane, you could have simply helped and be done with
it. How does a model being overweight correlate to where it's CG should be,
anyway? If I were to add a useless 8 oz. chunk of lead to a plane just for
kicks, why would I want to make it more noseheavy afterwards?  Anyway,
measure your average chord (including the ailerons) and set your cg for 25%
of that, and then move it back a tidge from there after flying it. I like
27% usually myself. The problem with some Duraplanes, mostly with the
Trainer 40 and the Aerobat, is that they were designed with too little of
wing area, and the resulting heavier wingloading gave them this "pig"
reputation. It's unfortunate, because the materials are not at fault at all,
it was the design.  You should pay a visit to www.spadtothebone.com. It
takes the Duraplane idea to all new levels.

> >I'm in the process of resurrecting and old DuraPlane 20 I was giving
> >and was wondering where the recommended CG would be?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Dr.1 Driver
> "There's a Hun in the sun!"
Dr1Driver - 22 Apr 2004 01:42 GMT
> you could have simply helped and be done with
>it.

Excuse me, I DID help him.  I told him where I thought the CG should be.

> set your cg for 25%
>of that, and then move it back a tidge from there after flying it. I like
>27%

Well pardon the hell outta me.  I believe I suggested 25-28%.  How did you help
him any more?

>How does a model being overweight correlate to where it's CG should be,
>anyway?

Given equal wing areas, a heavier model has a higher wing loading.  Therefore,
it also has a higher stall speed.  A more forward CG will make the plane more
stable at low speed.  THAT'S how a model being overweight correlates to where
its CG should be.

>You should pay a visit to www.spadtothebone.com.

I've seen a spad.  It's a disposable airplane.

>It
>takes the Duraplane idea to all new levels.

Somebody sure needs to.

>Rather than insult his plane,

Oh, and I'm not entitled to my opinion???  I didn't insult his plane.  I simply
said they tend to be heavy.

Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
David Hopper - 22 Apr 2004 03:21 GMT
Thanks, guys.. I have a starting point now.

It was a freebie, so all I have invested in it is a radio and that can
always be moved to something else...

 
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Frank Costa - 22 Apr 2004 18:30 GMT
Good luck with it David. Remember, it's all about having fun! BTW, there's a
coupld of good cg calculators online. You merely plug in a few numbers, and
the rest is done for you. One is located at:

http://www.palosrc.com/instructors/cg.htm

> Thanks, guys.. I have a starting point now.
>
> It was a freebie, so all I have invested in it is a radio and that can
> always be moved to something else...
Doug McLaren - 22 Apr 2004 19:12 GMT
| Good luck with it David. Remember, it's all about having fun! BTW, there's a
| coupld of good cg calculators online. You merely plug in a few numbers, and
| the rest is done for you. One is located at:
|
| http://www.palosrc.com/instructors/cg.htm

Of course, for a plane with a completely rectangular wing like the
Duraplane, you don't need any sort of calculator.  Just put the CoG
25-30% of the way back from the front of the wing.  You don't even
need to carefully measure it -- eyeballing it's usually good enough,
though using a ruler isn't a bad idea.  If it's a plane you've never
flown before, put it 25% forward, then fly and start thinking about
moving it back, depending on how it flies.  The further forward the
more stable the plane becomes, but the more elevator throw you need to
keep the nose up, and the less aerobatic the plane becomes.  If it's
too far forward, you won't even be able to get the nose up.  As the
CoG goes back, the plane becomes more nimble and more efficient, but
also becomes more unstable, and at some point it'll become unflyable,
going into uncorrectable spins at the slightest provocation.

This 25-30% rule of thumb applies to any rectangular wing.  If your
wing is swept or otherwise non-rectangular, you can use the
calculator, though a little experience will let you eyeball most of
those too.

It's only when you start dealing with precision pattern flying, or
flying wings that you need to be *really* precise about where the CoG
is.  The longer the distance between the wing and the tail, the less
critical exact placement is.  (Flying wings don't have a tail, which
is why it's so critical.)

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Doug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com              Body by Nautilus; Brain by Atari.

Frank - 22 Apr 2004 05:18 GMT
> I've seen a spad.  It's a disposable airplane.

You're so far out there I won't even bother, sir.
Frank Costa - 22 Apr 2004 18:51 GMT
> Given equal wing areas, a heavier model has a higher wing loading.  Therefore,
> it also has a higher stall speed.  A more forward CG will make the plane more
> stable at low speed.  THAT'S how a model being overweight correlates to where
> its CG should be.

I have flown many planes with very light wingloadings to very heavy
wingloadings, and my experience has been that in any case a noseheavy plane,
one whose cg is placed further forward than 25%, is sluggish and doesn't
flare well.
Dr1Driver - 22 Apr 2004 19:03 GMT
>one whose cg is placed further forward than 25%, i

IF you are able to read, reread my suggestions.  My recommended CG range was
25% - 28%.  I NEVER said use a CG more forward than 25%.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Frank Costa - 22 Apr 2004 19:10 GMT
25% is not a "more forward location" however. It is the standard recommended
starting point for most any typical plane regardless. I've also never had a
stability or snapping issues setting up a heavily wingloaded plane to 27% as
well. Now I request that you please keep responses on the NG only, and try
to restrain yourself from adding to the spam that already overloads my
inbox. Thanks Dr!

> >one whose cg is placed further forward than 25%, i
>
> IF you are able to read, reread my suggestions.  My recommended CG range was
> 25% - 28%.  I NEVER said use a CG more forward than 25%.
> Dr.1 Driver
> "There's a Hun in the sun!"
Dr1Driver - 22 Apr 2004 21:51 GMT
>25% is not a "more forward location" however.

<sigh>  You're an idiot...I did not say "25% was a more forward location".  I
said a "more forward location than 25%."  There's a BIG difference in the two,
Frankie.  When you learn to read, you'll know the difference.  

The way you misquote and interpret to your own satisfaction makes me think
you're a reporter.

BTW, I thought you filtered me...
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Frank Costa - 22 Apr 2004 22:19 GMT
You must be an Welles fan. A true artist of the language of DoubleSpeak.

> >25% is not a "more forward location" however.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Dr.1 Driver
> "There's a Hun in the sun!"
Viper Pilot - 15 May 2004 15:30 GMT
Dr1Driver Wrote:
> . . . .You're an idiot. . . .

Wwow, that's a real mature way to handle things!!!!

--
Viper Pilo
Viper Pilot - 17 Aug 2004 00:06 GMT
Dr1Driver . . . . .The way you misquote and interpret to your own satisfaction makes me think you're a reporter. . . . .[/QUOTE Wrote:

> Frank Costa may be to "premier expert" on the topic of SPADs.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Viper

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Viper Pilot

Dr1Driver - 17 Aug 2004 03:55 GMT
>Dr1Driver . . . . .The way you misquote and interpret to your own
>satisfaction makes me think you're a reporter. . .

If you will show me where I have misquoted or misinterpreted, I will be glad to
clarify MY statements.

Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Six_O'Clock_High - 22 Apr 2004 21:52 GMT
> 25% is not a "more forward location" however. It is the standard recommended
> starting point for most any typical plane regardless. I've also never had a
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > Dr.1 Driver
> > "There's a Hun in the sun!"

Anyone got another hair we can split?
RMan75 - 14 May 2004 19:12 GMT
I, too am salvaging an old DP trainer 20 and the commentary on CG i
helpful. Thank you.  Are there any suggestions on the advisability o
adding airlerons?  And if so, the best way to accomplish this

--
RMan7
David Hopper - 15 May 2004 03:31 GMT
>I, too am salvaging an old DP trainer 20 and the commentary on CG is
>helpful. Thank you.  Are there any suggestions on the advisability of
>adding airlerons?  And if so, the best way to accomplish this?

The wing that came with mine was pretty sad (and not the original), so
I ordered one from Tower Hobbies. The manual that came with the wing
is the one for the entire plane, so if you need a copy, let me know.

The last page talks about adding optional ailerons..

 
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