Thanks Bill for the "warning" about Li-Po batteries.
Let us all recall our history in this hobby re: new technology of any kind.
It is easy to separate "us" - the hobbyists into 3 groups:
1. The "INTENTENIONALLY ILLITERATE" -Yep , fellas -it seems that no matter
how hard manufacturers try - some of us really believe we are smarter than
the instructions ("huh- not ME..?)
In other words - refusing of the oportunity of self-education (i.e. -not
reading the instructions, and -actually doing as they say, and THEN
something BAD happens) DOES NOT equate with a bad, faulty, shoddy or even
dangerous product.
However- it may give rise to others questioning our genetics <G>
2. The "CHICKEN LITTLES"-Unfortunaley, for many of us, we are quick to
really believe that the sky*IS* falling. (For those of you who have actually
witnessed MY flying - well.. SOMETHING usually is falling - but it is FROM
the sky- and more importantly, it is ALWAYS because of MY actions, or lack
thereof. It does no good to blame the plane - right?)
in other words, before we all start running for cover -THINK!!!!
Lithium poly batteries have been in use SUCESSFULLY, AND SAFELY FOR YEARS in
cell phones, and many other consumer oriented applications.
The ONLY scary failures have occured due to incorrect charging, or abuse.
PERIOD.
I wonder how many times a perfectly good product has been "evicted" from
this hobby due to gossip and rumor.
Have house and garages burned? Possibly. And let us assume that they have.
Damn shame, really - I sincerely am sorry for those folks, and I hope there
were no injuries or worse.
However, can we get THE FACTS as to WHY it happened?????
Would be nice to know if it was REALLY the fault of an inanimate object,
that cannot self-destruct without SOME HUMAN IN -PUT- it requires us to take
action in order fail, or to charge correctly.
3.The "THE EARTH IS STILL FLAT" gang. You know who you are... Probably still
fly with a wide band AM radio, and complain all the time about "those @%$*)$
floppy flyers" ( those are 3-D capable profile airplanes for the rest of you
that are younger and not using servos the size of bricks, that you time with
a sun-dial <G>).
Look guys - the bottm line to all this is;
1. Read! And don't short cut on the instructions for safe charge rates.
Please do not take this as a negative commentary on Bill Fulmer's warning
post. Rather, use reasonable caution as outlined. Just understand that these
that the most energy dense, lightest weight batteries we have had yet. BUT
THEY ARE NOT Ni CADS!!!
That means you WILL NOT get away with abusing Li -Polys by charging them
in-correctly, as we ALL do with Ni CADS.
2. Don't rumor mongor - it always amazes me when I hear someone proudly
salivating over the failure of a product, or fellow hobbyist. It ain't
pretty.Get the facts. The REAL facts, not gossip. And then make an
intelligent descision that not based on " Well, so-an-so said he heard..."
3.Be willing to expose yourself to new technologies. Might make your life
better.This is a "learning curve" hobby. All of the time.
Otherwise, why not just go back to the old reed, single channel, brick servo
radios, in your Quaker?
Do not be afraid, be smart about learning new technologies.
These new batteries ARE a technological marvel if used correctly.
Not used correctly - they are dangerous...
Gee, sounds like our automobiles, right?
Anybody here believe that their cars are too dangerous, or scary, or complex
to get in them and drive their airplanes to the field...?
Didn't think so...<GGGG>!
T
Dr1Driver - 24 Apr 2004 04:36 GMT
>Otherwise, why not just go back to the old reed, single channel, brick servo
>radios, in your Quaker?
Hey, does that mean my EK Logitrol with the 27-oz/in monsters isn't any good?
Seriously, you make good points. I am reminded of a Lamaze class. Part of the
instructions were "after the water has broken, do not attempt to have
intercourse with the mother".
SOMEONE HAD TO HAVE TRIED IT.
Sometimes, we need to be protected from ourselves.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
gordongekko49-rctalk@yahoo.com - 30 Apr 2004 06:25 GMT
Probably the same guy they put the instructions on Preparation H for
"NOT TO BE TAKEN INTERNALLY."
Gekko
(Keep It Clean)
>>Otherwise, why not just go back to the old reed, single channel, brick servo
>>radios, in your Quaker?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Dr.1 Driver
>"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Doug McLaren - 24 Apr 2004 04:58 GMT
| Lithium poly batteries have been in use SUCESSFULLY, AND SAFELY FOR YEARS in
| cell phones, and many other consumer oriented applications.
| The ONLY scary failures have occured due to incorrect charging, or abuse.
| PERIOD.
While I do generally agree with what you're saying, even though I
don't really agree with how you've said it, this particular passage is
wrong.
There HAVE been scary failures with Li-ion and Li-poly cells in
consumer applications.
| Lithium poly batteries have been in use SUCESSFULLY, AND SAFELY FOR YEARS in
| cell phones, and many other consumer oriented applications.
| The ONLY scary failures have occured due to incorrect charging, or abuse.
| PERIOD.
While I do generally agree with what you're saying, even though I
don't really agree with how you've said it, this particular passage is
wrong.
There HAVE been scary failures with Li-ion and Li-poly cells in
consumer applications.
Want some specific examples?
http://news.com.com/2100-1040_3-247731.html
http://news.com.com/2100-1039_3-5088434.html
http://news.com.com/2100-1033_3-983867.html
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0COW/2000_Oct_19/66528950/p1/article.jhtml
Now, it's not always clear whether these are li-ion or li-poly cells,
but either way, it can happen to either kind -- it's just more likely
to happen to the older cells.

Signature
Doug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. --Marcus Aurelius
Frank - 25 Apr 2004 03:08 GMT
> There HAVE been scary failures with Li-ion and Li-poly cells in
> consumer applications.
Please name a form of chemical or petroleum based energy that is not
inherently dangerous, especially if mishandled. The sad fact is, the only
reason Li-Po will not be banned is because it is in wide spread use
throughout the electronics industry. If it were a hobby specific technology,
in our society that falsely believes we can be regulated into a state of
perfect safety (which is why it's so darned hard to innovate these days), it
would be gone now.
The Natural Philosopher - 24 Apr 2004 10:42 GMT
> Thanks Bill for the "warning" about Li-Po batteries.
> Let us all recall our history in this hobby re: new technology of any kind.
> It is easy to separate "us" - the hobbyists into 3 groups:
> Lithium poly batteries have been in use SUCESSFULLY, AND SAFELY FOR YEARS in
> cell phones, and many other consumer oriented applications.
Where they have protection circuitry, that is inappropiate weight and
power loss wise, for our uses, incorporated to self balance and prevent
overcharging.
> The ONLY scary failures have occured due to incorrect charging, or abuse.
> PERIOD.
Not quite. One or two just 'happened'. Obviously something caused it,
but the cause is unknown. Otherwise agreeed.
> I wonder how many times a perfectly good product has been "evicted" from
> this hobby due to gossip and rumor.
Not often.
> Have house and garages burned? Possibly. And let us assume that they have.
> Damn shame, really - I sincerely am sorry for those folks, and I hope there
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that cannot self-destruct without SOME HUMAN IN -PUT- it requires us to take
> action in order fail, or to charge correctly.
Read the ezone and find out.
> Anybody here believe that their cars are too dangerous, or scary, or complex
> to get in them and drive their airplanes to the field...?
> Didn't think so...<GGGG>!
> T
I almost agree, except these cells burn really fiercely when they go. By
all means use them, but the bottom line is one day a pack is going to
catch fire on you.
Make sure its in a safe place when it does, thats all.
99 times out of a hundred it will ONLY catch fire when in a crash, or
being charged.
But the car that went up was a crashed pack that was taken out of a
model wreck and tossed on the seat. I think. It took several minutes to
go up, and took out the whole car.
Frank - 25 Apr 2004 03:22 GMT
It would be interesting to see a comparison to how often Litium fires occur
in comparison to: Natural Gas appliances, Propane appliances, gasoline run
equipment, etc. etc. etc. None of these objects are stored in fireproof
containers, they are left in garages, sheds, and sit in our kitchens.
There was once a big brouhaha over bic lighters exploding. Seems 4 people or
so are injured per year, or even killed, from lighters exploding in their
pockets. Does this mean we ban lighters, or carry them inside fire safes?
> > Thanks Bill for the "warning" about Li-Po batteries.
> > Let us all recall our history in this hobby re: new technology of any kind.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> model wreck and tossed on the seat. I think. It took several minutes to
> go up, and took out the whole car.
Six_O'Clock_High - 25 Apr 2004 04:50 GMT
Seems the easier answer was to ban smoking!
> It would be interesting to see a comparison to how often Litium fires occur
> in comparison to: Natural Gas appliances, Propane appliances, gasoline run
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> > model wreck and tossed on the seat. I think. It took several minutes to
> > go up, and took out the whole car.
Jim Lilly - 25 Apr 2004 04:54 GMT
Frank,
> lighters exploding in their
> pockets.
Most of those were brain dead welders with bic lighters in their
pockets.
--
Jim L.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/
Using - Virtual Access(OLR), ZAP 4.5, & WinXP Pro w/SP1
MikeF - 24 Apr 2004 11:44 GMT
> 1. The "INTENTENIONALLY ILLITERATE"
(snip)
In my rc car days, we usually responded by telling guys to RTFM!
> 2. The "CHICKEN LITTLES"-
(snip)
one might defend the Chicken littles by saying "better safe than sorry".
And the cell-phone is a bad example. They WILL give you cancer though....
> 3.The "THE EARTH IS STILL FLAT" gang.
(snip)
Good people, but useless for advice on what brushless to put in your slowstick....
(snip)
> 3.Be willing to expose yourself to new technologies. Might make your life
> better.This is a "learning curve" hobby. All of the time.
Oy vey. I got enough to learn yet. Leave the experimenting to guys who know how to fly....
>> Gee, sounds like our automobiles, right?
> Anybody here believe that their cars are too dangerous, or scary,
> to get in them and drive their airplanes to the field...?
Ever drive a '99 chevy blazer?
8)
B a r r y - 24 Apr 2004 12:27 GMT
>And the cell-phone is a bad example. They WILL give you cancer though....
How do you that?
New phones operate at many different frequencies and at vastly reduced
power levels, compared to the 1980's versions.
Barry
MikeF - 27 Apr 2004 00:59 GMT
Lies. Its all a conspiracy.
Bush's administration is in bed with the phamaceutical companies. Its all lies.
hehe....
> >And the cell-phone is a bad example. They WILL give you cancer though....
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Barry
Mike R. - 26 Apr 2004 05:12 GMT
"MikeF" <vanning@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<IOCdnbWiu4tl2RfdRVn->
> >> Gee, sounds like our automobiles, right?
> > Anybody here believe that their cars are too dangerous, or scary,
> > to get in them and drive their airplanes to the field...?
>
> Ever drive a '99 chevy blazer?
> 8)
Ever drive a 90 Pontiac AWD 6000........it will make you a beliver
that there is such a creature as a "gremlin"
Mike
Six_O'Clock_High - 26 Apr 2004 06:01 GMT
> "MikeF" <vanning@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<IOCdnbWiu4tl2RfdRVn->
> > >> Gee, sounds like our automobiles, right?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Mike
The Gremlin was made by AMC, just after the Hornet if I recall correctly.
Frank - 26 Apr 2004 06:17 GMT
> > "MikeF" <vanning@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<IOCdnbWiu4tl2RfdRVn->
> > > >> Gee, sounds like our automobiles, right?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> The Gremlin was made by AMC, just after the Hornet if I recall correctly.
I think he means it in the literal sense, a mythical creature that lives in
and wreaks havoc with machinery. Also one of the only WB characters that got
the best of Bugs Bunny, lol.
Mike R. - 27 Apr 2004 03:29 GMT
> > > "MikeF" <vanning@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<IOCdnbWiu4tl2RfdRVn->
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> and wreaks havoc with machinery. Also one of the only WB characters that got
> the best of Bugs Bunny, lol.
Thats what I mean......they are everywere...in yor cars, in
your R/C planes, in your homes, ect, ect...they are hard to see and
hide in the shadows, but I think I caught a glimpse of the little
devil....it was the last night of league bowling for my wife and I on
Sunday. Going into the 10th frame only needing a strike to break over
200, I steped up on the aproach executed a timed and perfect release
of the ball stright down the 8th board, good snap on the backends,
solid in the pocket.......would you belive it.... a solid ten pin
standing. And right behind that pin was a the little SOB....holding it
up.....giving me an evil grin and a hand gesture.... :-)