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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / May 2004Survey: Safety Fence You Use?
Hi all, A group of us installed new safety fences at the three pilot stations for our club field. Of course, a few members had to gripe that we used the "wrong" material. The irony is that we replaced the old fence with the same type of material as the old fence, plastic snow fence (or safety fence). They malcontents (no bias here) claim that the fence must be wire, such as "hog fence" or welded wire. When told that the old fence was plastic they just said Oh. But now they are beginning to harp again. There are opinions and there are facts. My opinion is that the fence is there to protect from a moderate mishap during taxi, take off, or landing. They contend that the fence is for an out of control plane coming in at full speed from 1000 feet away. If they were intended to be high speed and bomb proof, I would think that they would be higher than 3 to 4 feet and would cover the whole pit side of the runway. If that is the case, we should all wear hockey gear too, when flying. I have seen the snow fence stop a plane on a botched landing. It tears the fence a bit, but the plane is "strained" mightily in the process. It seems to me that wire is overkill. I notice a lot of the plastic fences are seen in the AMA magazine photos, so many of you must agree. However, I do see metal fences as well. These are our specs: 4X4 posts, 3' X 6' (2) screens on the front, 4' X 4' (2) screens on the ends. (Plastic snow fence stretched on 2X2 frames.) This gives each station a 12' space with angled wings on the ends. So, now to put the questions to bed: 1. What does your club use for a fence? 2. Is the fence for: (A) Moderate mishaps (B) All-out crash bangers Thanks, Tom > Hi all, > > A group of us installed new safety fences at the three pilot stations > for our club field. Our Club had a chain link metal fencing for pilot stations, and pits turns out it was a cause of interence, they had a team come in and so spectra testing of frequencies, or whatevers its called, turned out that standing within 10 feet of safety fence caused some issues on some channels, this testing was done , due to fact that planes in the higher channels were really getting glitched out, the fence was the suspect, and was proved to cause some issues, especially, since 3 planes were lost in one day, also touching the fence with the transmitter , ( which ya wouldnt really do ) but it happens, caused some nasty spiking , etc, , well thats all I know lol, now we have plastic type fencing, and all are happy !!!! ( looks like plastic version of chain link, with pcv tubing ) Since the arrival of 42%ers and jets our club opted to go with welded rabbit wire about 36" high and far enough in front of the pilot stations to prevent antenna contact. We thought that initally there would a lot of crashes blamed on the new wire but there have not been any this year. We knew about the problems supposidly caused by chain link fence so we avoided it and those big planes just blew right through the orange plastic stuff. The 36" provides something to duck behind and it has proven itself several times. Phil AMA609 > > Hi all, > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > version of > chain link, with pcv tubing ) "welded" is the key! Chain link fence is mererly shaped pieces of galvanized wire that are woven together. Those "galvanized joints" can create some hellatious RF intereference by the creation of "diodes" that can rectify the RF and create some tremendous harmonics. Been there and done that trying to find intereference to my ham station several times. David >Since the arrival of 42%ers and jets our club opted to go with welded >rabbit wire about 36" high and far enough in front of the pilot [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> version of >> chain link, with pcv tubing ) The clubs in this part of Florida seem to have adopted PVC lattice on a frame of 1 1/2 schedule 40 PVC pipe. Barrier forms a "V" at the pilot station. Barriers are approximately 30" high. They do an effective job of warding off "ground incidents" as the some of the broken PVC sheets that have been replaced will attest. -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Flying Gators Inc., GNV FL > "welded" is the key! Chain link fence is mererly shaped pieces of > galvanized wire that are woven together. Those "galvanized joints" [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >> version of > >> chain link, with pcv tubing ) We have the orange constrution fence.Plastic. We don't even know what snow is down here in SE Texas so never heard of snow fence. It's for moderate accidents. A lot of club rules,AMA included are a lot of overkill. When we first started our club some of the old timers wanted so many rules that you couldn't even enjoy the hobby. Usually the ones that complain the most are the ones that do the least. Good luck > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > 1. What does your club use for a fence? It doesn't. > 2. Is the fence for: > (A) Moderate mishaps > (B) All-out crash bangers It isn';t for either,. However IF you have kids and girlfriends and stuff and a bucnch of macho pilots, its been shown that chain link fence is THE best at stopping cars from getting in the wrong places. It all acts like a giant net and tho the supports get ripped up, the fence is strong enough to absorb impact and slow the whole car down smoothly. If I was going to do the job properly, I'd have 6-10ft high chainlink with a staggered walkway through it formed by overlapping a section with a 10 ft gap between inner and outer. Plastc fencing is better than nothing though. And may be man enough to take a full power 'bird' strike. Maybe sacrificing a beat up old trainer to test it ain't bad. Come to think of it, even woven nylon netting would proabably do the job. > Thanks, > > Tom We used pvc pipe and orange plastic snow/construction fence. They have been tested twice in the past year to my knowledge. We didn't want steel wire fence as they are hard on planes. Both times, the planes were on takeoff and ended up coming toward the pilot boxes. The props cut through the fence, but the planes were stopped. They did their job. I believe both pilot boxes were empty during the mishaps, but if they were occupied, the pilots would have been safe. They may have taken a couple of steps back, but the planes would not have hit them. John VB > Hi all, > > A group of us installed new safety fences at the three pilot stations > for our club field. Of course, a few members had to gripe that we used > the "wrong" material. The irony is that we replaced the old fence with The fence is there only to trap you so it doesn't matter what it's made from. I've had close calls three times since I've been flying. All were from airborne planes landing against the wishes of the pilot. :-) All three times my spotter and I were able to move away from the target area before impact. Not one of those times would I have been so lucky if we were surrounded by a "safety" fence. >Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Tom remove my-wife to reply :-) > 1. What does your club use for a fence? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Tom In the trailer we have for the lights at the far end of the pylon course, we have chicken wire. I have been in the cage when it has been hit full tilt and all that happens is you usually get splashed with a little fuel when then fuel tank disintegrates. There is also the light pattering sound of 'balsa rain'. The plane is vaporized. Just my opinion, Andy >Hi all, > >A group of us installed new safety fences at the three pilot stations >for our club field. The "safety fence", or "barrier" as AMA terms it, is specifically intended to prevent _taxiing models_ trundling off into the pits or pilot stations. The three clubs in which I hold membership use the plastic sort of fence. I think chain link should be mandated, irrespective of the degree of shredding done to a model. That's because I've 1) had an old seasoned model 'go nutz' once and head for the pits (didn't make it), and 2) I've saw what a wild .40 trainer model did to one gent. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber > On Wed, 05 May 2004 08:41:23 GMT, "Tom Johnson" <taj001@comport.net> > The three clubs in which I hold membership use the plastic sort of > fence. > > I think chain link should be mandated, irrespective of the degree of > shredding done to a model. Guy's like you hand me a laugh. Got $4-5k, IN YOUR POCKET, to pay for your "mandated fence"? >>On Wed, 05 May 2004 08:41:23 GMT, "Tom Johnson" <taj001@comport.net> >>The three clubs in which I hold membership use the plastic sort of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Guy's like you hand me a laugh. Got $4-5k, IN YOUR POCKET, to pay for > your "mandated fence"? Yep. Thats the reason it was never used on roads. The pressed steel crash barriers are nuch cheaper and work by slicing into the bodywork and 'grabbing' the car. almost as good at less cost. Not sutable for planes sadly. I still think nylon (fish) netting is probably the best compromise. what about tennis nets??? >> On Wed, 05 May 2004 08:41:23 GMT, "Tom Johnson" <taj001@comport.net> >> The three clubs in which I hold membership use the plastic sort of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Guy's like you hand me a laugh. Got $4-5k, IN YOUR POCKET, to pay for >your "mandated fence"? Dolts who think flying site safety is an area where they can scrimp "hand me a laugh". Yes, I've got $4-5K IN MY POCKET, and I have that bit of money to spend as I see fit because I'm smart enough to know that a simple chain-link fence doesn't COST $4-5K. You think a simple safety fence costs several thousand dollars and you think that's too much to spend on SAFETY ? There's a term with which you should become familiar : liability. Cheers, Fred McClellan The House Of Balsa Dust home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber We use the plastic orange construction fence strung between steel uprights and supported with a nylon string along the top. We have to replace it every year or so., or when a plane shreds a section of it. Only a needle nosed jet has made it all the way thru it so far - about 10+ years. We have 3 openings for taxiways and they each have a section of the same fencing infront of the pits. So far, so good. Andy We can make a box of wood.....FLY!! > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Tom We tried the plastic fence and found that it just fell apart so quickly that it was a nuisance to keep repaired. We are on our second-generation heavy-duty wire fence, knee-high, anchored in concrete. We have models of all size on our field, including the biggies, and the fence is to protect the pilots and not the planes. | So, now to put the questions to bed: | [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | (A) Moderate mishaps | (B) All-out crash bangers Our club (HCAM, Austin, TX) has a fence in front of the pilot's stations with rebar sticking out of the ground about 4 feet up, and a rope-like/nylon fence with holes of about one inch. It's really meant to stop planes from taxiing into pilot's shins, but it's really strong (and stretches a little), and I doubt doubt that it would stop a giant scale plane hitting it at 100 mph. The prop would immediately get tangled and die, and I don't see how anything more than the engine could possibly get through. The only way a plane would get through would be is if it pulled the fence off the rebar supports, so you'd have a big mass of fence + plane coming at you -- which wouldn't get far. Of course, it's only four foot high, so it's only going to get planes that are taxiing, or just taking off or landing. One potential drawback to a chain link fence is that it could cause RF issues. Grounding it properly may help, but there's still room for problems.  SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com I just wish once someone would call me "Sir" without adding, "You're making a scene." --Homer Simpson Hi all, A group of us installed new safety fences at the three pilot stations for our club field. Of course, a few members had to gripe that we used the "wrong" material. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snippage <<<<<<<<<<<<< So, now to put the questions to bed: 1. What does your club use for a fence? Orange plastic construction fence on PVC frames about 3 or 4 ft high and 6 ft long. The 'boxes' are open front and back, so they are to help protect from side impacts. We also leave a strip of weeds unmowed along the pit side of the runway which works pretty well to slow or stop a plane that gets wild on takeoff or landing. 2. Is the fence for: (A) Moderate mishaps (B) All-out crash bangers Since most of our members fly .40 to .60 size planes, I'm pretty sure the plastic fencing we have will stop any of them at takeoff and landing speeds. I imagine it would stop one flying in at full throttle but I doubt anyone would volunteer a plane for the test. I've heard comments that safety fences should be "airplane friendly". I guess I disagree. I think any plane flying, or rolling out of control on the ground, in the pit area needs to be positively stopped. I've had some "exciting" takeoffs, and if I ever hit a pilot box I want my plane stopped. If it's turned to toothpicks, that's my problem for not controlling it. The guys at the club I belong to came up with a solution that combines effectiveness with zero cost - the length of the runway has been fenced by old car tyres buried half into the ground - there is an overlapped offset section to allow access from the pits, and pilots are required to stand behind this 'fence' while flying. Taxiing is not permitted on the pilot side of this barrier. As a newcomer, I haven't been around long enough to see what happens when a plane hits the barrier. but I am pretty sure there is no way even a BIG plane can dislodge one of those tyres, and the fence itself being rubber will do minimum damage to the plane. seems a damn good idea to me. Can send a pic if anyone wants to see David > Hi all, > > A group of us installed new safety fences at the three pilot stations > for our club field. Of course, a few members had to gripe that we used > the "wrong" material. |
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