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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / May 2004Field torn up update
Many of our club members that came out to help with the field repair, after the truck incident, discovered how much dirt can be displaced in a few minutes. We filled up the tracks and then ran the club packer over it. I think in a few weeks with a little rain and luck we'll be OK. We have a program here in town called crimstoppers that offers $1,000 bucks for the arrest of a person that commits a crime. We added an additional $1,250 bucks to that. total of $2,250 bucks. The police and the city park authoritys told us that it was most likely done by school kids. I sent an e-mail to all the local high schools and asked them to read it during the morning announcements. If we don't do anything but make their pucker factor increase I will be happy. One of the guys that flys with us tells me that at the club he used to belong to, out of town, they had a guy that came in almost every week and tore theirs up. He always came in the same way. Bad mistake here!! They installed a 2x12 with spikes in the high grass right before the field. Well super stupid runs over it and begins to cut dounuts in the field. He doesn't realize that the airpressure in his tires is going down fast and a tire comes off the rim. Rim cartches on the runway and his truck turns upside down right in the middle of the runway!!! Needless to say he got caught and had to pay almost 15 grand in fines, impound fees and such, and Daddy sold his truck!! There is a glimmer of hope. Eddie Fulmer AMA 63713 www.geocities.com/efulmer55 > Many of our club members that came out to help with the field repair, after the > truck incident, discovered how much dirt can be displaced in a few minutes. We [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > them to read it during the morning announcements. If we don't do anything but > make their pucker factor increase I will be happy. That is indeed a step in the right direction. > One of the guys that flys > with us tells me that at the club he used to belong to, out of town, they had a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > say he got caught and had to pay almost 15 grand in fines, impound fees and > such, and Daddy sold his truck!! There is a glimmer of hope. Ask this guy a question for me. How would the club have felt if the "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder how the legalities would have turned out had this happened. Back in Michigan many years ago, people use to "discourage" snow mobile riders by stringing wire between trees. Until someone lost their head over it. Then the property owners were litigated out of existence. I fail to see a tremendous difference between that and spikes driven through a 2x12. What we need are more bleeding heart liberals who are more concerned with the rights of the low-life's who commit these crimes than the victims of the crimes. The guy who tore up our field, got his car stalled and destroyed got what was coming to him. Luckily, the land owner didn't get into any trouble. This same former land owner later confronted a couple of burglars the home of a friend. They shot him in the chest and face. He took the gun away from them and held them for the sheriff. His name is Ben, We call him "Superman" > > Many of our club members that came out to help with the field repair, > after the [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > it. Then the property owners were litigated out of existence. I fail to > see a tremendous difference between that and spikes driven through a 2x12. > What we need are more bleeding heart liberals who are more concerned with > the rights of the low-life's who commit these crimes than the victims of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of a friend. They shot him in the chest and face. He took the gun away from > them and held them for the sheriff. His name is Ben, We call him "Superman" Luckily is right! Vigilanty behavior should not be condoned regardless the reason. Two wrongs never have and never will make a right! On the other hand, self defense is another game all together. As for being a liberal? I suspect I'm more conservative than you. The difference is, I seek peaceful resolution when possible. But am ready and able to do violence when the situation calls for it. Trashing some four wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level IMHO! BUT HE WON'T COME BACK! and that is the desired result. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > What we need are more bleeding heart liberals who are more concerned with > > the rights of the low-life's who commit these crimes than the victims of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level > IMHO! > BUT HE WON'T COME BACK! and that is the desired result. Sigh....... the desired result? he'll end up finding some other place to cause havoc, get driven off from there, then eventualy come back. you have not only stopped him from causing problems, but by failing to have his actions corrected, you have reinforced his habits of bad behavior. he should be hunted down, caught, convicted and punished. then (possibly) he will understand that he did something wrong and keep from doing so again. just try to convince me that ignoring a problem is a solution  SignatureTater President of MARS Club (NAR #660) www.mars-rocketry.com KC9ESF NAR #79654 L1 AMA #747769 EAA #703312 remove spam spelled backwards to reply > -- > Paul McIntosh [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level > > IMHO! Our club contacted the local police district and the park rangers who set up a sting operation using off-road motorcycles to catch a few of the quadrunners. They had been tearing up our field, wrecking our safety fences, setting fire to our operation shack, and raising hell after drinking in the park where we fly. The parents of these miscreants had to pay large fines before getting their delinquents' vehicles back from the impound. We haven't seen hide nor hair of the scoundrels since the confiscation once word got out that it would cost them dearly to get their quadrunners back. We are keeping our fingers crossed that our problems have been solved. Joe L. > BUT HE WON'T COME BACK! and that is the desired result. So committing a crime is OK as long as it accomplishes the "desired result"? My but you are pathetic. I was wrong. I take it all back Paul. You wouldn't be sinking to their level. You'd be rising to it! As I'm sure would be several others here. >I take it all back Paul. You >wouldn't be sinking to their level. You'd be rising to it! Notice how C.O. changes sides depending on which way the wind is blowing. Here in the South, we call that a Mugwump. That's a bird who sits on the fence with his mug on one side and his wump on the other, and he flies to whichever side is the most popular. He's been ragging on Paul for several weeks, now he's praising him...what a suck-up. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > >I take it all back Paul. You > >wouldn't be sinking to their level. You'd be rising to it! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is the most popular. He's been ragging on Paul for several weeks, now he's > praising him...what a suck-up. You have an odd way of describing it but, if that's what you want to call it! Knock yourself out! No skin off my teeth! You know what, since you are so gifted with being able to solve any situation, why don't you go to all these places and help them solve their problems. It is plainly obvious that you have all the answers already. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > BUT HE WON'T COME BACK! and that is the desired result. > > So committing a crime is OK as long as it accomplishes the "desired result"? > My but you are pathetic. I was wrong. I take it all back Paul. You > wouldn't be sinking to their level. You'd be rising to it! As I'm sure > would be several others here. >>BUT HE WON'T COME BACK! and that is the desired result. > > So committing a crime is OK as long as it accomplishes the "desired result"? According to the news from Iraq, this is a widely held belief in US 'intelligence' > My but you are pathetic. I was wrong. I take it all back Paul. You > wouldn't be sinking to their level. You'd be rising to it! As I'm sure > would be several others here. Mmm. Quis custodies custodiet? > BUT HE WON'T COME BACK! and that is the desired result. So committing a crime yourself is OK as long as it accomplishes the "desired result"? Gee Paul, I was all wrong about you. You wouldn't be sinking to their level. You'd be rising to it! >>What we need are more bleeding heart liberals who are more concerned with >>the rights of the low-life's who commit these crimes than the victims of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > reason. Two wrongs never have and never will make a right! On the other > hand, self defense is another game all together. The secret of vigilantism is to get away with it. Injuring people does not lead to a satisfactory result. You should engieer non fatal accidents that resulkt in sever financial oss to the protagonists, by means that are nothing whatever to do with you. > As for being a liberal? I suspect I'm more conservative than you. The > difference is, I seek peaceful resolution when possible. But am ready and > able to do violence when the situation calls for it. Trashing some four > wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level > IMHO! And, indeed, that is precisely what is needed in many cases. The pint about many low life types is that they don't support civilised behaviour, only direct physical methods are of any use. However they have to be planned carefully and executed invisibly. In the OP's case, I wqould say planting a barrier hedge to make it clear there is no way in, studded with spikes 'to tie the saplings to ossifer, I mean who drives throuhh a newly planted hedge except a criminally negligent vandal'...would be appropiate response. Or a disctrete sprinkling of Caltrops 'we have had two gangs up here ay night, honest, and one of them must habvve done it to the other lot. I can't see its ourt problem to check the perimeter for trash someone lese has left there?' Take a tip out of Nixons book,. Credible deniability is all that is required, just don't keep any tapes.... >Trashing some four >wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level Maybe, but that's the only thing some poeple understand. As for being a vigilante or a defender...I'll defend my person and property by whatever means at my disposal to be sure the threat is ended. Don't know what part of the USA you're in, C.O., but sometimes it's a long wait for the law here in the South. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I used to live in a state with CCW-legal law, and I did. I moved to a state with a "right to carry" law, and I often do. Cops can't be everywhere at once, that's why responsible citizens sometimes need to act in their own defense. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Dr.1 Driver, I couldn't agree more with your statement. And by the way C.O. (Kevie), ROTFLMAO!!! SignatureHerb Winston AMA 50438 Bonita Springs, FL He may look like an idiot, and he may sound like an idiot, but don't let him fool you. He really is an idiot. Mark Twain > >Trashing some four > >wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" Back when this happened, vandalism in this area was treated as a very minor crime, usually not worthy of law enforcement's time. When the vandals were caught, not much was done to them. This all changed in the late '60's, early '70's. One local guy had his property heavily damaged (Multi thousands of $$) by some jeep jockeys over the course of about five years. Pushed over the edge of tolerance, not getting any help from law enforcement, (Gee, we can't do anything unless we actually see it) he shot and killed two of them. Guy went to jail for a few years. (Later, I met him, nice guy) As a result of the publicity and trial, vandalism was taken a lot more seriously. There was a noticeable drop in the instances of this type of crime for a number of years. (Apparently, these idiots didn't worry so much about being fined or going to jail as what a 30-06 round does to someone when it hits them in the head). So much for "Peaceful resolution" The guys who got their car stuck in our field didn't suffer any bodily harm. Our property was still usable after they were done, and likewise, their car was drivable. (After they replaced the glass, head and tail lights) Like our field, it didn't look to good with all of the dents, overall the guy who swung the bat thought it was a fair trade off. We didn't have any problem of this sort since. Bill > > What we need are more bleeding heart liberals who are more concerned with > > the rights of the low-life's who commit these crimes than the victims of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > wheeling trespasser is nothing more than sinking to his own juvenile level > IMHO! > We didn't have any problem of this sort since. > Bill I'd say you were lucky! I know a few areas where your ball bats would have been answered with quite a few semi-automatic weapons. But of that's the way you want to go........... > Ask this guy a question for me. How would the club have felt if the > "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder how the > legalities would have turned out had this happened. People like you make me sick. If the guy got killed we'd share a 6 pack - in our honor. It also would not be a 'club decision', as someone like you would rat us out. There are quite a few of us geezers who have done far worst than kill some a.shole. > Back in Michigan many years ago, people use to "discourage" snow mobile > riders by stringing wire between trees. Until someone lost their head over > it. Then the property owners were litigated out of existence. I fail to > see a tremendous difference between that and spikes driven through a 2x12. There is none. > > Ask this guy a question for me. How would the club have felt if the > > "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > like you would rat us out. There are quite a few of us geezers who have > done far worst than kill some a.shole. Why does that not surprise me? So you may kill some a.shole and have done far worse! Birds of a feather! Just don't try it on me or mine. You might find you've taken on more than your pathetic little puds can handle! > Just don't try it on me or mine. You might find you've taken on more than > your pathetic little puds can handle! Geez, what an imagination apart from a lot of dumb claptrap. Reg > Ask this guy a question for me. How would the club have felt if the > "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder how the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it. Then the property owners were litigated out of existence. I fail to > see a tremendous difference between that and spikes driven through a 2x12. There IS a tremendous difference. Stringing a wire between trees is a direct attempt to injure the rider. After all the average snow mobile offers no protection to the rider and a wire would be a DELIBERATE attempt to injure the rider. An attempt to disable the vehicle on the otherhand is just that. If the driver is too stupid/drunk/careless to notice his tires are flat that's different. By your reasoning all controlled access spikes would have to be removed from parking garages and so on. After all what if the guy can't read, doesn't understand what tire damage is, or is just too wasted to care. Now they might get busted for failing to warn the driver, but then again if he hadn't been trespassing and vandalizing NONE of it would have happened. Jim You would fail to see the difference. The rest of us understand it. There is a vast difference between using a tack strip to disable a vehicle, and using an object designed to injure a person. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com >I fail to > see a tremendous difference between that and spikes driven through a 2x12. Well ,the law applys differently in different parts of the world, around here I can have any numer 4x12 with rusty nails in it around my property, or property that I rent. If someone would hurt himself after blowing the tires on my 4x12's it would be his problem. Now for real life: Animals could hurt themself on the rusty nails (I like animals in general) People walking could hurt themself on the rusty nails (I like some people too) If a lowlife would crash his car and kill himself due to my 4x12's, I have killed another human (low lifes are humans too), and that would hurt me.... I would probably never get over the fact that I killed someone, I would never again find pleasure in flying and have to find another hobby. However, the risk of someone killing themself due to a flat tire is small, and I'm prepared to take that risk too... In the case with the snowmobiles, I would put up signs first, and a nylon rope about 25cm above the snow, trust me, I have accidently run a snowmobile into a fence in about 80mph, it did get me to a hasty halt, and I did fall off, but the steel wire was elastic enough to slow me down enough to not hurt myself, a nylon rope would do the same, only in a more gentle way... In none of these cases I would be held responsible, since the land belonged to me, or was rented by me, that's how the law should work in my opinion. I would imagine a properly lighted and located warning sign that meets OSHA standards and is written in English, Spanish, French, Italian and Swahili could help deter a few of the smarter ones. Trouble is , some people that know better arent dealing with these A-holes for fear they wont be politically correct. Heaven forbid that majority should rule. > Well ,the law applys differently in different parts of the world, around > here I can have any numer 4x12 with rusty nails in it around my property, or > property that I rent. > I would imagine a properly lighted and located warning sign that meets > OSHA standards and is written in English, Spanish, French, Italian and > Swahili could help deter a few of the smarter ones. Trouble is , some > people that know better arent dealing with these A-holes for fear they > wont be politically correct. Heaven forbid that majority should rule. Heaven forbid reason should rule! Stick to anarchy folks! It's good for the anti gun crowd! (hint: it gives them ammunition for their cause) That's how it SHOULD work, but there are all kinds of laws out there to protect the innocents (like the kids who really don't know any better). Things you do to protect your property could come under the attractive nuisance laws -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Well ,the law applys differently in different parts of the world, around > here I can have any numer 4x12 with rusty nails in it around my property, or [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > In none of these cases I would be held responsible, since the land belonged > to me, or was rented by me, that's how the law should work in my opinion. > You would fail to see the difference. The rest of us understand it. > > There is a vast difference between using a tack strip to disable a vehicle, > and using an object designed to injure a person. No Paul! I understand it quite well. That wire was quite a bit above the ground before the snow fell! It's you who doesn't understand it. You who would take the law into your own hands. Then it would be you who would complain that the law never does anything! Or worse, that it was picking on you when it caught up to you. I agree those who trespass and tear up a flying field need to be found out and punished. But to sink to the same juvenile behavior is not justified. Unless of course that is how ignorant you really are! Died during the commission of a crime, his DNA removed from mankind's gene pool. > Ask this guy a question for me. How would the club have felt if the > "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder how the > legalities would have turned out had this happened. > "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder how the > legalities would have turned out had this happened. To the parents of young teens: Your teenage son/daughter are out crusin along with some freinds in a suv. The driver decides to have alittle 4 wheelin fun. Turns onto a dirt road that leads to an R/C club......does some 4 wheelin on the grounds but does not realize the spiked boards setup up by the club.....runs over them...blows tires...flips truck....son/daughter ejected from truck......son/daughter crushed and killed when truck flips onto them. Vengence is a dish best served cold........as cold as the teenage corpse which will be laying in a casket in a funeral home. Mike >To the parents of young teens: > Your teenage son/daughter are out crusin along with some freinds in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mike Should have had their seat belts on, it's the law Its also the law not to trespass and vandalize property. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > >To the parents of young teens: > > Your teenage son/daughter are out crusin along with some freinds in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Should have had their seat belts on, it's the law Reminds me of guy in my home town that lived on a curve in a rural area. He got sick of having to replace his mailbox when it got hit by cars, so his last replacement was a piece of drilling rod off of an oil rig anchored by concrete with a steel plate welded on top to hold the box. A lady with her child in a compact car was his victim during winter, when her car skided on ice and she hit the mail box pole. The car was totaled and both the driver and passenger were badly injured. The home owner ended up with both criminal charges and a civil suite against him.His defense was that the woman was driving at an unsafe speed for the conditions and had to tresspass onto his land to hit the box. He lost both cases. While it is illegal to tresspass & destory a person's mailbox, it is also illegal to set up a situation to prevent that action by means which can produce injury and/or death. In both cases criminal and civil the homeowner would have lost had the victim been a someone who tried to run down the mailbox on purpose. The point is that setting up a barrier or trap that can cause death or injury to prevent an act of vandilism is not and should not be promoted or supported by the courts or people with common sense. For all the huffing and puffing I have read in this thread, is there anyone that can honestly say that the destruction of a field by a four wheel drive should be punisible by the death of one or more individuals? How about a dumb 13 year old on a dirt bike that decides to do something stupid like tresspass on the flying field? Yes, I beleive those that tresspass and destroy fields should be caught and made to pay for their damage and face a judge, but setting traps that can cause injury or death for vandilism is just plain wrong to any civilized human. Bob Ruth >Its also the law not to trespass and vandalize property. >-- [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Path: >lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feed2.newsreader.com!news reader.com!news2.telebyte.nl!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!nntp-peering.plus. net!ptn-nntp-feeder02.plus.net!landlord!wards.force9.net.POSTED!not-for-mail >From: "Paul McIntosh" paul@mcintoshcentral.com >Newsgroups: rec.models.rc.air [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:15:05 BST >Organization: Customer of PlusNet > Reminds me of guy in my home town that lived on a curve in a rural area. He got > sick of having to replace his mailbox when it got hit by cars, so his last [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Bob Ruth Thank you Bob. But there in lies the crux of the matter. I seriously doubt everyone here is a civilized human! Waiting for your retort Paul! Many years ago, trappers would set up a 'spring gun' in their cabins. It was usually a shotgun tied to a table, facing the door, with a string tied to the trigger and the door. When the door was opened by an intruder, the gun fired, wounding or killing the person. After a bit of civilization set in, they were outlawed and the cabin owner would be tried for murder. Anyone contemplating setting a hidden hazard on a flying field should be prepared to lose the field when the first victim sues, regardless of fault or trespass. . Arne, USA (being in cash in a down market is my third favorite thing) . . > . > Arne, USA (being in cash in a down market is my third favorite thing) Heh! Heh! Yeh! nice isn't it? Only leaves two questions though. What to buy and when to buy it? :) No problem. How would the case have been settled if the woman ran off the road and hit a legally parked dump truck? How avout if she had hit a bridge abutment? A tree? She would have still been injured. Just goes to show that lawyers and juries can twist anything around to suit their needs. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > Reminds me of guy in my home town that lived on a curve in a rural area. > He got [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Waiting for your retort Paul! Very simple. The mail box had been knocked down many times. The home owner had made it clear to the authorities that he was disgruntled about the number of times his box had been destroyed and replaced. He made it clear to the neighbors and friends that he built his "super mailbox" so the next person to hit it would pay dearly for their mistake whether they did it on purpose or not. The only thing twisted was an individual so bent on revenge that he set conditions that would on purpose cause injury and possible death. As pointed out in the case he could have moved the mailbox to another location or had his mail delievered to a PO Box, but both were considered by him to be too much of a problem. As to the other comments you made regarding parked dump trucks etc, give it a rest. You know very well there is a difference between an accident and injury & death resulting by someone setting up conditions with the intent to directly cause damage to property or person. A concrete wall around your flying site with a locked gate to prevent 4 wheelers getting in is legal and some one hitting it is most likely an accident. Setting up pungy sticks on a field with the intent to do damage to a vehicle, which may go out of control is clear intention to do harm for a non-life threating civil offense. Maybe I am wrong and you would like to back to the ancient days of the Roman Empire where land owners displayed the heads of tresspassers on their fences to ward off anyone thinking about crossing their land without asking first. I bet you would feel real macho with a few kids heads posted at the front the flying field gate to show what happens when they were stupid enough or ignorant enough to tresspass on a dirt bike or 4 wheel on your field. No Thanks Ceaser of the Field. For all its faults, I will take civilized law over your kind any day. Bob Ruth >No problem. How would the case have been settled if the woman ran off the >road and hit a legally parked dump truck? How avout if she had hit a bridge [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Paul McIntosh >http://www.rc-bearings.com ... > Maybe I am wrong and you would like to back to the ancient days of the Roman > Empire where land owners displayed the heads of tresspassers on their fences to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to tresspass on a dirt bike or 4 wheel on your field. No Thanks Ceaser of the > Field. For all its faults, I will take civilized law over your kind any day. .... I doubt that kids heads on posts would work, but how about the carcasses of 4x4's with a little sign below them saying "no tresspassing" esp. if the carcasses are shown with LARGE bullet holes. SignatureTater President of MARS Club (NAR #660) www.mars-rocketry.com KC9ESF NAR #79654 L1 AMA #747769 EAA #703312 remove spam spelled backwards to reply So, you are saying that the woman and child were the ones who kept knocking down his mailbox? He did not set out to kill anyone. The woman's injuries are an accident as she was not intent on running off the road. Once off the road, ANYTHING she hit could have caused injury, hence the dumptruck statement. Suppose he said he was going to park his dumptruck next to the mailbox and she hit it. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Very simple. The mail box had been knocked down many times. The home owner had > made it clear to the authorities that he was disgruntled about the number of [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Paul McIntosh > >http://www.rc-bearings.com "C.O.Jones" <ifyouneedit@yougotit.com> wrote in message news:ZPHrc.176029 > Thank you Bob. But there in lies the crux of the matter. I seriously doubt > everyone here is a civilized human! I am a very civilized human. Until someone steals from me or causes me damage, then I become barbaric. All, in THIS country (more soon to follow) you can sue for anything... and most likely get away with it... I was in europe a while back they don't have such stupid lawsuits I mentioned such thing and i was laughed at!! ... >"C.O.Jones" <ifyouneedit@yougotit.com> wrote in message >news:ZPHrc.176029 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I am a very civilized human. Until someone steals from me or causes me >damage, then I become barbaric. In Europe, you just claim compensation from the government. You don't need to sue anyone. Motorcyclists going so fast that they can't see the road ahead can claim compensation if they hit a pothole and crash. In the US, they get told to watch the road and slow down! -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > All, > in THIS country (more soon to follow) you can sue for anything... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >I am a very civilized human. Until someone steals from me or causes me > >damage, then I become barbaric. > In Europe, you just claim compensation from the government. You don't need > to sue anyone. > > Motorcyclists going so fast that they can't see the road ahead can claim > compensation if they hit a pothole and crash. In the US, they get told to > watch the road and slow down! Give it time Paul! We'll get as screwed up as Europe in due course! There is a big difference between what one constructs on their private property and what one constructs on a property line for mail delivery. I live in a rural area and went through a few years of having my mail box destroyed on a regular basis. Got REAL tired of it after a while. The Sob's went so far as to wrap a chain around posts and drag them out of the ground. I was going to put in a well casing filled full of concrete with a welded 1/4" steel plate box. Before I undertook this project, I checked with an attorney in my office. He told me that where the mail box was located really wasn't on my land, but a street right of way and this applies in all cases of curb side mail delivery. He also lined my liability if someone hit this thing, so I didn't build it. One night, the kids came back with their bats beating up all of the boxes on our road. I chased them down, scared the hell out of them and got a license number. Didn't think anything would be done but the county prosecuted them, they had to pay for at least my box. One kid's father made him apologize to me. They really dropped the hammer on these boys for a first offense. If they would do that for every first offender, there would be very few second time offenders. The real argument here is between the bleeding heart liberals who are so worried about the rights of the criminals, and the people who are worried about the rights of the victims. It's all about accepting responsibility for your actions. and realizing that when you do something stupid or criminal, you might receive some frontier justice. Yea, the punishment might not fit the crime, so don't do the if**king crime! Bill > "C.O.Jones" <ifyouneedit@yougotit.com> wrote in message > news:ZPHrc.176029 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I am a very civilized human. Until someone steals from me or causes me > damage, then I become barbaric. Bill, You hit the nail on the head!! Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > There is a big difference between what one constructs on their private > property and what one constructs on a property line for mail delivery. I [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > I am a very civilized human. Until someone steals from me or causes me > > damage, then I become barbaric. Isn't he under indictment for the murder of his wife? > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > I am a very civilized human. Until someone steals from me or causes me > > > damage, then I become barbaric. >made to pay for their damage and face a judge, If the police actively pursue perpetrators for simple vandalism, the D.A.s actively prosecute for simple vandalism, and the judges actively punish for simple vandalism...in your area, then you are among the fortunate few. The criminal must ultimately face the consequences of his actions. Unfortunately, in this ultra-liberal world we live in, everyone is a "victim" except the REAL victim. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > Reminds me of guy in my home town that lived on a curve in a rural area. He got > sick of having to replace his mailbox when it got hit by cars, so his last [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Bob Ruth I had my mail box built on the 'upwind' side of the bridge over the bar ditch in front of my home for a reason. You CAN directly hit the box, but only if you are driving on the wrong side of the road. I have gone out for the morning paper and found car parts that were left by someone who found the bridge side before the mail box that still stands because the sides of the bar ditch put the bumper lower than the top of the road. If this situtation were to hurt someone, I would feel bad but I doubt there is anything I could have done to prevent that from occuring, except for not providing a way to get to my home. Bad attitude #86 So, a person who has a concrete block fence in their front yard is criminally liable if someone hits the fence? How about a large tree by the side of the road? How about bridge abutments? Suppose that person ran off the road and killed someone? Would they be not liable because the person was in the wrong place? -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Reminds me of guy in my home town that lived on a curve in a rural area. He got > sick of having to replace his mailbox when it got hit by cars, so his last [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feed2.newsreader.com!news > reader.com!news2.telebyte.nl!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!nntp-peering.plus. net!ptn-nntp-feeder02.plus.net!landlord!wards.force9.net.POSTED!not-for-mail > >From: "Paul McIntosh" paul@mcintoshcentral.com > >Newsgroups: rec.models.rc.air [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:15:05 BST > >Organization: Customer of PlusNet > So, a person who has a concrete block fence in their front yard is > criminally liable if someone hits the fence? How about a large tree by the > side of the road? How about bridge abutments? > > Suppose that person ran off the road and killed someone? Would they be not > liable because the person was in the wrong place? Once again Paul decides to "what if?" a topic to death. Tell us Paul, is this just an act with you or are you really this stupid? >Reminds me of guy in my home town that lived on a curve in a rural area. He got sick of having to replace his mailbox when it got hit by cars, so his last >replacement was a piece of drilling rod off of an oil rig anchored by concrete >with a steel plate welded on top to hold the box. A lady with her child in a >compact car was his victim during winter, when her car skided on ice and she >hit the mail box pole. The car was totaled and both the driver and passenger were badly injured. The home owner ended up with both criminal charges and a >civil suite against him.His defense was that the woman was driving at an >unsafe speed for the conditions and had to tresspass onto his land to hit the box. >He lost both cases. While it is illegal to tresspass & destory a person's >mailbox, it is also illegal to set up a situation to prevent that action by means >which can produce injury and/or death. In both cases criminal and civil the >homeowner would have lost had the victim been a someone who tried to run down the mailbox on purpose. The point is that setting up a barrier or trap that can cause death or injury to prevent an act of vandilism >is not and should not be >promoted or supported by the courts or people with common sense. For what it`s worth, my wife and I have similar experience with cars ending up in our yard at a sharp turn in the road. Easily, three or four cars a year would end up in our yard. We were told by both the township and a Lawyer that we would be responsible for any injures people sustained if we lined the front of the yard with large rocks. Keep in mind we were not protecting our yard, so much as our kids possibly playing in that area. We even had one kid total his Moms car on a tree in our yard and sent several of his friends to the hospital. Absolutely nothing was done about it. I was told by the police that because his insurance would go up that that was punishment enough. Two months later he ran a red light and hit another car broad side with big time injuries. I used to get so angry at another teen up the street, taking the corner so fast and coming so close to my kids riding their bikes, I talked to her parents several times and also the police, again nothing from anyone. Hell, she used to give me the finger when she drove by. Amazing what several ounces of CA can do. Personally, always try to do the right thing first, if that don`t work, well, you know what to do. rick markel My Model Aircraft Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/aileron37/index.html My point exactly. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > For what it`s worth, my wife and I have similar experience with cars ending up > in our yard at a sharp turn in the road. Easily, three or four cars a year [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > My Model Aircraft Home Page > http://hometown.aol.com/aileron37/index.html > Its also the law not to trespass and vandalize property. > -- True.....but how many times have we " trespassed" and " not vandalized " Kids playing some hoop in the driveway, and the ball gets knocked over in "Mrs. Jones yard and the kid runs over to retrive it??? Kids/teenagers walking to school/or " its getting late and I need to be home...." So they take a short cut across some feild,( might take one across a R/C feild with those "car traps" and get hurt if they dont see them) across someones yard???? ECt, ECT, ECT,ECT..... I work at a cemetery and we see kids/teens walking to and from school every day cutting across areas of the cemetery that we have posted " No Trespassing" just to save some time. We dont care....there not vandalizing. My boss caught a guy driving his R/C nitro buggy at an area in cemetery were we dump our dirt from grave diggings. I asked my boss if he chased him away. My boss said " No, why should I Mike. I let you and Eric fly your planes in H feild so why should I tell him to leave? He is not harming the cemetery." Some years ago, we had some atv's running around our feild.....our soluition to stop it: drive some fence posts in the ground stiking out 4 feet from the ground close together were they entered. Worked very well as a baricade, never had atv's runnin around H feild since we did that. "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> wrote in message news:< Why wasn't the teenager wearing their seatbelts? Why didn't you teach your son or daughter to respect the property of others? Why didn't you monitor the friends your teenager goes cruising with? It goes both ways. I would be crushed if my teenage daughter was killed like that. I hope that I taught her better, though. Why dont you ask these questions to the parents of the many teens I had to dig graves for and backfill. What would cause one young lad whom was brought up by good loving parents, taught to respect others and was a grade A student in school to take a 45 and splatter his brains out in his home?????........hes buried in section LL of my cemetery. What would cause a young miss on OCT, 30th of 20003(that was her birthday) to tie a rope around a treelimb....in the cemetery..... make a noose and hang her self???? Some may joke and say " she did not have far to go"......well not joking she did not have to go.......shes buried 50 feet from the tree she used in a section we call C Triangle. So Paul, I cant relly answer those question.....I dont know what goes on a persons mind when they decide to tear up a R/C feild........I try my best as a parent to raise my kids lovingly, teach them to respect others and there property......And I say the same as you.....I hope that I have taught them better. Mike What if, what if, what if. You can play that game until the cows come home and it doesn't change the fact that idiots are tearing up flying sites and you people will play Europeans and sit around and wait for someone else to deal with it. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > Its also the law not to trespass and vandalize property. > > -- [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Mike > What if, what if, what if. You can play that game until the cows come home > and it doesn't change the fact that idiots are tearing up flying sites and > you people will play Europeans and sit around and wait for someone else to > deal with it. I sympathize with the clubs that are having the problem. Clubs work hard at establishing and maintaining a flying site. I am suggesting alternatives to stop the problem should a "what if" occurs......But hey its your club, do what you want.......so do not bitch if a "what if" happens. Then the cows will come home to graze in the feild whicn was once an R/C club. > What if, what if, what if. You can play that game until the cows come home > and it doesn't change the fact that idiots are tearing up flying sites and > you people will play Europeans and sit around and wait for someone else to > deal with it. And when you deal with it Paul you say a lot about yourself. Assuming you use the spikes or something similar you show a complete lack of respect for the law and the judicial process. So why should it respect you? You also show a complete lack of respect for your fellow humans. And not just for the vandals but for anyone who might happen by for whatever legit reason. So why should they respect you? You have demonstrated that you are no better than those you would condemn! So where does your behavior place you in the right? I do not allow such attitudes at my field. Nor would I remain in a club that tolerated such attitudes. Come out and live in the real world. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > What if, what if, what if. You can play that game until the cows come > home [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I do not allow such attitudes at my field. Nor would I remain in a club > that tolerated such attitudes. Well, since you live in a perfect world where the police ALWAYS come out to make a vandalism report on fields and ALWAYS catch the perps, and teh DA ALWAYS spends the time and money to prosecute, and juries ALWAYS convict, why don't you tell us how it is done? You are real good at shooting down others ideas but you have no original thoughts of your own. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > What if, what if, what if. You can play that game until the cows come > home [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I do not allow such attitudes at my field. Nor would I remain in a club > that tolerated such attitudes. > Well, since you live in a perfect world where the police ALWAYS come out to > make a vandalism report on fields and ALWAYS catch the perps, and teh DA [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You are real good at shooting down others ideas but you have no original > thoughts of your own. Why I thought you were a man of ideas? I didn't know you had to be lead by the hand and shown the way! It's really simple Paul. GET OFF YOUR DEAD LAZY a.s AND GO TO THE POLICE AND FILE THE REPORT! Try taking a little responsibility for yourself for a change! Try using the established system of justice and see if it won't work for you! Try being a part of the community instead of expecting the community to do everything for you! Try growing up! That's the real difference between our worlds! You're just too lazy to see it! >GET OFF YOUR DEAD LAZY a.s AND GO TO THE POLICE AND FILE THE REPORT! >Try taking a little responsibility for yourself for a change! Try using the >established system of justice and see if it won't work for you! Try being a >part of the community instead of expecting the community to do everything >for you! But that`s the point!!! Many times the "system" simply does not work. Bet your first born if it was a golf course they were tearing up, something would be done. However for a bunch of guys flying "toy airplanes", you would be lucky the police will even show up to have a look and file a report. Even if they did, how high on their "to do" list do you think it will it be? rick markel My Model Aircraft Home Page http://hometown.aol.com/aileron37/index.html For what it's worth they did show up and I did file a report. Eddie Fulmer > For what it's worth they did show up and I did file a report. Eddie Fulmer That's nice! Anything happen after that? Musta been a REAL slow day! They never showed up at our field and acted like they really didn't want to take a report at all. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > For what it's worth they did show up and I did file a report. Eddie Fulmer >Subject: Re: Field torn up update >From: aileron37@aol.com (Aileron37) [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >My Model Aircraft Home Page >http://hometown.aol.com/aileron37/index.html Rick, I wrote this earlier and here is what happened after a report was filed to the local police: Our club contacted the local police district and the park rangers who set up a sting operation using off-road motorcycles to catch a few of the quadrunners. They had been tearing up our field, wrecking our safety fences, setting fire to our operation shack, and raising hell after drinking in the park where we fly. The parents of these miscreants had to pay large fines before getting their delinquents' vehicles back from the impound. We haven't seen hide nor hair of the scoundrels since the confiscation once word got out that it would cost them dearly to get their quadrunners back. We are keeping our fingers crossed that our problems have been solved. Joe L. > But that`s the point!!! Many times the "system" simply does not work. Bet your > first born if it was a golf course they were tearing up, something would be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > rick markel But Rick, everyone in the system has a supervisor! And should you think you've run out of those then I'd take it to the local media! It works! I know from experience! > True.....but how many times have we " trespassed" and " not >vandalized " Simple trespass is one thing, criminal trespass is another. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" | >To the parents of young teens: | > Your teenage son/daughter are out crusin along with some freinds in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | >ejected from truck......son/daughter crushed and killed when truck | >flips onto them. Of course, this whole `driving around, not noticing the flat tire until you flip the truck and die' idea is extremely unlikely. I'm not saying that a spike strip is a good idea, but it's not like putting that spike strip out is going to kill somebody. Yes, I imagine it's possible, but I'd suggest the odds are extremely remote. It's much more likely that they'd flip their truck on their own with no help from anybody. And even that's not very likely to kill anybody. Somebody compared it to a wire at neck level across a trail used by snow machines -- I'd say it's not even close. That wire is *very* likely to kill somebody. The spike strip, no. As satisfying as a spike strip would be, probably the best solution would be a big, heavy, locking gate, with heavy fences blocking any other ways of getting a truck onto the property. Of course, this may not always be possible or practical. | Should have had their seat belts on, it's the law Technically, you don't need to legally wear seat belts when you're on private property. So in that case, it's *not* the law. SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs? --from The Goon Show > >To the parents of young teens: > > Your teenage son/daughter are out crusin along with some freinds in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Vengence is a dish best served cold........as cold as the teenage > >corpse which will be laying in a casket in a funeral home. But I'd still have my field. > But I'd still have my field. Not if that were my kid and you had done something to contribute! Like a board full of spikes! I'd be tempted to use that board and those spikes on your head. Gee, isn't that exactly the same action you so vehemently condemn??? -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > But I'd still have my field. > > Not if that were my kid and you had done something to contribute! Like a > board full of spikes! I'd be tempted to use that board and those spikes on > your head. > Gee, isn't that exactly the same action you so vehemently condemn??? No! Because now we're talking negligent homicide on your part and the death of my kid! I'll option to be the grieving parent extracting revenge on the genetic idiot! Why don't you two take your bickering offline...this thread has run it's course. FredD Exercise your hard won freedom! Don't read it then! -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Why don't you two take your bickering offline...this thread has run it's > course. > > FredD Why wasn't the teenager wearing their seatbelts? Why didn't you teach your son or daughter to respect the property of others? Why didn't you monitor the friends your teenager goes cruising with? It goes both ways. I would be crushed if my teenage daughter was killed like that. I hope that I taught her better, though. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > "stupid" had been killed when the truck turned over? I also wonder how the > > legalities would have turned out had this happened. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mike > Why wasn't the teenager wearing their seatbelts? Why didn't you teach your > son or daughter to respect the property of others? Why didn't you monitor [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the > > > legalities would have turned out had this happened. Ok.......ther all wereing seat belts.......truck runs over "unproffesinally installed truck trap" and spikes impails gas tank.....grinding metal causes spark..........truck bursts into flames...kills all people. mikerenz66@netzero.net (Mike R.) posted message ID<15b98be9.0405221012.5fab5002@posting.google.com>on 22 May 2004 11:12:31 -0700 >> Why wasn't the teenager wearing their seatbelts? Why didn't you teach your >> son or daughter to respect the property of others? Why didn't you monitor [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >tank.....grinding metal causes spark..........truck bursts into >flames...kills all people. Jeebus...what kind of drugs are you on? Bummer. Now they gotta re-sod the burn spot once they tow what is left of dumbass's truck off the field. Maybe they can sell the scrap metal to defray the cost of the sod! SignatureFubar of The HillPeople AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables." > > Why wasn't the teenager wearing their seatbelts? Why didn't you teach your > > son or daughter to respect the property of others? Why didn't you monitor [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > tank.....grinding metal causes spark..........truck bursts into > flames...kills all people. hehe! -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Bummer. > Now they gotta re-sod the burn spot once they tow what is left of dumbass's [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > tank.....grinding metal causes spark..........truck bursts into > > flames...kills all people. > Bummer. > Now they gotta re-sod the burn spot once they tow what is left of dumbass's > truck off the field. > Maybe they can sell the scrap metal to defray the cost of the sod! A guess you have to clean up the mess.......the realator would require it before he puts the "FOR SALE" sign on the feild. Of course, the real-ator will be sued when the siblings of the improperly raised kids hit the "FOR SALE" sign while out four wheeling in the new SUV their parents bought with the money they made suing everybody that made the nails, milled the lumber, bred the grass seed, made the tires, installed the tires, made the pump that put air in the tires, made the vehicle, made it WITH the guy that made the vehicle, made the hammer, made the handle for the hammer, milled the lumber that was used to make the handle for the hammer, God for making it dark at night, God for making the air that was put into the tires, the headlight company for not making the headlights bright enough at night, etc. etc. etc. Oh, I forgot the parents themselves for not teaching their kids to respect the laws of this country and respecting the property of others and..... Sorry, guess I went off to La la land with that last sentence. Too fantastic to imagine, I guess. I think the vandals should be caught, the vehicle impounded and crushed, and the parents of the kids bitch-slapped on the local cable channel for all to see. Oh yeah, and billed for the damage to the field and the cost of crushing the truck. Boot to the head. SignatureFubar of The HillPeople AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables." >I think the vandals should be caught, the vehicle impounded and crushed, and >the parents of the kids bitch-slapped on the local cable channel for all to >see. That reminds me of a local kid who took dad`s full size Bronco or Blazer across the frozen river here bought 10 years ago. He along with a few friends made it about 1/3 of the way across before it fell through, (luckily only up to the doors.) Made the news and Dad lost his truck. What you want to bet he will never drive across ice again:) rick markel > >I think the vandals should be caught, the vehicle impounded and crushed, and > >the parents of the kids bitch-slapped on the local cable channel for all to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > never drive across ice again:) > rick markel Was he trying for the Darwin Award? > That reminds me of a local kid who took dad`s full size Bronco or Blazer across > the frozen river here bought 10 years ago. He along with a few friends made it > about 1/3 of the way across before it fell through, (luckily only up to the > doors.) Made the news and Dad lost his truck. What you want to bet he will > never drive across ice again:) > rick markel His dad should have passed on some better genes! Or maybe he did pass on the best he had and he didn't know better either. Sooner or later nature has a way of sorting out the chaff! Sometimes, the world has a way of evening the odds a little. hehe -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > >I think the vandals should be caught, the vehicle impounded and crushed, and > >the parents of the kids bitch-slapped on the local cable channel for all to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > never drive across ice again:) > rick markel Now, now. Let's not get SENSIBLE here!! -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Of course, the real-ator will be sued when the siblings of the improperly > raised kids hit the "FOR SALE" sign while out four wheeling in the new SUV [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > http://www.fubar1.net > "I've heard the screams of the vegetables." I gotta believe that a digital camera, with an electonic trigger could be setup to capture photo's of the dude doing the deed. > Many of our club members that came out to help with the field repair, after the > truck incident, discovered how much dirt can be displaced in a few minutes. We [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > such, and Daddy sold his truck!! There is a glimmer of hope. Eddie Fulmer > AMA 63713 www.geocities.com/efulmer55 And how many of those would work at night without a flash? -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > I gotta believe that a digital camera, with an electonic trigger could be setup to > capture photo's of the dude doing the deed. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > such, and Daddy sold his truck!! There is a glimmer of hope. Eddie Fulmer > > AMA 63713 www.geocities.com/efulmer55 EEWWWW... Are they flashing security cams too??? SignatureFubar of The HillPeople AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables." > And how many of those would work at night without a flash? > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Fulmer > > > AMA 63713 www.geocities.com/efulmer55 No, they are streaking them... > EEWWWW... Are they flashing security cams too??? > > And how many of those would work at night without a flash? [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Fulmer > > > > AMA 63713 www.geocities.com/efulmer55 |
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