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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / June 2004Club question
Any clubs have this happen? Our club is 90 or so members, and about 15 do most of the work, field maintenance etc. We have had other members volunteer to do something, and then, when it's time for dues ($50.00 pr year) they want a reduction for the work they did. We voted to amend our by-laws to prevent this, (IF they want payment for a service, it has to be up front, and is not considered "Volunteer") but I am curious what everyone else is doing. Thanks Bill >Any clubs have this happen? Yup. 10% do 90% of the work. As for dues reduction, it won't work. Most people think their time is worth more than most clubs can afford. Put it to them this way: if you don't do the work, none of us, including you, will have a field to fly at. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" DR1 is right on the money with the 10% 90% thing. That's the way it is in any organization you check out. There is nothing you can do to break the cycle. Well nothing I know of. As for a reduction of dues tell them to go where the sun don't shine. If anyone needs a reduction in dues it would be the club officers. Especially the secretary. Only he knows how much work it is to be one. No I'm not the club secretary but I have been, and am now the pres. I wouldn't think much of someone that wanted some reduction after doing a little manual labor. I think I might get a little steamed about that one. Eddie Fulmer AMA 63713 The hardest part is to get the 10% to do nothing for a few months until the 90% start complaining! In the clubs I belonged to, some had free dues to club officers. That in no way compensated them for the amount of work they put into the club. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Any clubs have this happen? Our club is 90 or so members, and about 15 do > most of the work, field maintenance etc. We have had other members volunteer [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks > Bill >We voted to amend our by-laws to prevent this, (IF they want payment for a >service, it has to be up front, and is not considered "Volunteer") You did the right thing, now no one can come back later and look for money they don't necessarily deserve. The other comment about the secretary is pretty good too...there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes for the club to run smoothly and if you don't have a good secretary and treasurer, you can't have a good club. FredD > >We voted to amend our by-laws to prevent this, (IF they want payment for a > >service, it has to be up front, and is not considered "Volunteer") [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > FredD Boy did YOU say a mouthfull! >We voted to amend our by-laws to prevent this, (IF they want payment for a >service, it has to be up front, and is not considered "Volunteer") You did the right thing, now no one can come back later and look for money they don't necessarily deserve. The other comment about the secretary is pretty good too...there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes for the club to run smoothly and if you don't have a good secretary and treasurer, you can't have a good club. FredD ================= In our club, the treasurer and field officer do the real work. I'm the Secretary but all I really do is take the meeting minutes. The treasurer keeps the books; plus the roster, frequency chart, and does whatever AMA paperwork is required. I hope he's willing to run for re-election for many years to come. Our field officer owns the land where we fly; and does at least 90% of the work on the field himself. We offer to help with the field but he usually says he has it under control. He did ask for help when we had 10 yards of dirt delivered to fill in low spots on the runway. Carrell A follow up to Carrell's comments .... The club usually extends a free membership or reduced dues to some of the members that provide an ongoing service or even a one time big service. An example is the 10yds of dirt, chances are that will be rewarded with a free membership. We also have a member that provides a port-a-potty, these rent for $75 a month in our area, he keeps it serviced year round. He is comped a membership too. There are no set rules about this and it seems to be working out ok. CH This is indeed typical for many clubs. A few dedicated people work their butts off to make it happen, and usually go blue in the face trying to get the rest of the members to do anything productive to help the club or an event run. Members often feel that a few hour's work at one event or this or that entitles them to some elevated status, as if they have just moved a mountain in comparison to the work the dedicated few do. As if. These quite possibly could be the same people who bellyache at club meetings yet contribute nothing productive themselves. I would tell these people to pound sand. Dues are dues - they are a donation, if you will, towards the expenses the club incurs to exist. They have a choice every year - be a member, pay the dues. Don't be a member, see ya later bub. But to expect compensation from dues paid for a little work here and there.. yeah right. That's almost parasitic. I laugh at the bellyaching some people do over club dues.. 50 bucks a year? That's hilarious! What is that, 3 jugs of fue? Less than half a .40 ARF kit? A couple of 24's? Compared to the money some people pour into the hobby it's a pittance even at say $100/year. These people should count their blessings that there are people who work to make clubs happen and just pay up! A reduction from 50 bucks a year - sheesh! You have every right to be frustrated at the proposal. And to expect to get paid even up front IMHO is preposterous UNLESS it is major work at unusually significant monetary and/or physical expense to the person doing it. If they don't like it, tell them to start their own club somewhere well out of interference range of your field. Do they think your club profits from the dues? Mike D. > Any clubs have this happen? Our club is 90 or so members, and about 15 do > most of the work, field maintenance etc. We have had other members volunteer [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks > Bill This all goes back to a subject we have discussed a number of times. The 90/10% rule of members to workers seems to the norm. The 90% guys are really only renting runway and air space, doing nothing for the club except paying their dues. Playing devils advocate at a meeting, I pointed out that when a guy joins the club, he usually isn't told up front that there is a certain amount of work to be done. So, no one should be upset when these people do nothing except fly. We added a line to our membership form that says that members are expected to help with field maintenance and events. This has gone a long way to getting people to help. > This is indeed typical for many clubs. A few dedicated people work their > butts off to make it happen, and usually go blue in the face trying to get [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Thanks > > Bill What you say is true, I agree, though one would think common sense would make most people think that they may be called upon to contribute. I would tend to think that is based also on the size of the club - a little rural club like ours, to me it's no surprise that everyone needs to kick in sometime. A large club, well then sure, you can accept that many people just want to pay and fly and others pull the train. I think however, that we've all encountered enough of those same people who ALSO complain at club meetings or at the field without offering any form of help or remedy for the "problem", that some of us get our dander up on the subject. I've sure seen a few. Heck, maybe I've even been one here and there. Pointing out up front that some contribution is expected is a smart idea. Can't complain after signing on the dotted line! Mike d. > This all goes back to a subject we have discussed a number of times. The > 90/10% rule of members to workers seems to the norm. The 90% guys are really [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > members are expected to help with field maintenance and events. This has > gone a long way to getting people to help. > Any clubs have this happen? Our club is 90 or so members, and about 15 do > most of the work, field maintenance etc. We have had other members volunteer [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks > Bill Welcome to the club (pun intended)! It's true in my club and it seems like it's the same in everybody else's, too. There are those who like doing "club stuff" like maintaining the field, others like me who keep records and write newsletters, others who just like having the title of club officer, those who just want to come and fly, and finally a sprinkling of those who don't do any of the above but like to complain that they're not doing it the way THEY would! :-) Morris Sure sounds familiar....We also have bout 90 members but we can't get 15 members to do anything.Not even attend meetings. We have 15 acres and I alone take care of all of it. I've had offers from two people out of 90....Wow!! That didn't work either. I will be honest and say that I really enjoy the outdoors and not complaining at all.I like doing it.We have a large tractor with a flail mower and recently bought a Poulon ridder for the enfield area. Takes me bout four days a week to keep it up,a few hours a day.Not all day. I'm retired so have a lot of time. My dues are paid by the club.$80 a year. I took care of the place for two years before the rule was passed and it wan't my idea.But it's appreciated. How many of those 90 people attend meeting if I may ask??? Probaby not many....I get a huge case of the red azz at people that can't even make a two hour meeting a month. If it were up to me I'd terminate thier membership.That may sound harsh,but dang two hours a month??? Baring shift work and I understand that,I guess it's the henpecked syndrome. Sorry if I got off topic a bit but the subject gives me a good case of the reds at lazy rearends that don't want to do a thing,then complain when they don't like something. Sorry for venting.. Happy flying. > Any clubs have this happen? Our club is 90 or so members, and about 15 do > most of the work, field maintenance etc. We have had other members volunteer [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks > Bill All I know is if I'm forced to join a club (they got all the land) AND forced to buy their 'insurence' (AMA) There better be a nice field there for my use. Screw clubs. >All I know is if I'm forced to join a club (they got all the land) AND >forced to buy their 'insurence' (AMA) There better be a nice field there >for my use. Screw clubs. It will be nice if you help make it nice. After all, clubs are made of folks just like you or me, no more or no less. Alan Harriman > >All I know is if I'm forced to join a club (they got all the land) AND > >forced to buy their 'insurence' (AMA) There better be a nice field there [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Alan Harriman ROFLOL! Alan, DON'T fall prey to another nameless bad mouth troll who wants everything handed to him on a platter. Not that it's necessarily bad, but this is exactly the kind of attitude I am talking about. Some members feel that they are shelling out the $$ to join a club, so it better have a groomed runway, clean toilets, etc. While I don't agree, I really can't fault their attitude. If you join a golf or tennis club, they don't expect you to do any work in addition to paying dues. What is not explained to them going in is their membership dues do not in any way cover the expense of owning and maintaining a flying field IF the club had to pay someone to do these things. The reason dues are relatively low is because the few members who do all of the maintenance are keeping them low for the "runway renters". There is a about ten guys in our club (A clique) who have lobbied in the past to raise dues to $1000.00 per year! Their reasoning is: 1) They could afford to have all field maintenance done professionally. 2) They wouldn't have to wait for frequencies to be vacated. 3) They could screen and refuse membership to anyone they choose. (An R.C. Country Club) 4) There wouldn't be any weekends where they couldn't fly because the club was having a money raising event. (We hear about this around the times of our Big Bird and yearly contest) So far, these guys haven't been taken seriously. I wonder what's going to happen when the fifteen or so guys who do all the work finally fed up. There was another local club, now defunct, whose dues were either $25.00 per year, or $150.00 per year. 25 if you worked, 150 if you didn't. They self-destructed. Bill > >All I know is if I'm forced to join a club (they got all the land) AND > >forced to buy their 'insurence' (AMA) There better be a nice field there [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Alan Harriman > Some members feel that they are shelling out the $$ to join a >club, so it better have a groomed runway, clean toilets, etc. That depends on the amount of $$$ being shelled out. For $1000, it'd BETTER be a country club. But it I'm only paying $40-$60 in a 50 member club, I'd expect fo do a little work. Golf and tennis clubs are usually profitable organizations. Most R/C clubs are not. Also, it's usually MUCH cheaper to have amateur club members do things like bush hogging and grass cutting than pay a pro to do it. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" >That depends on the amount of $$$ being shelled out. For $1000, it'd BETTER >be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >have amateur club members do things like bush hogging and grass cutting than >pay a pro to do it. Therein lies the main reason that RC will always be an activity subject to the benevolence of other property owners for flying sites, and have a continuous dissatisfaction within the ranks of the club members. Everyone expects the field to be always prepared by others and the entire cost of the facility not to exceed several gallons of fuel. Golfers, boaters, hunters, fishermen and other sports people expect to pay their way. For example a deer hunter will pay for a license far above the AMA dues, hundreds to thousands for a place to hunt for 2-6 weeks a year, and enjoy the activity. As a group, RCers think $100 a YEAR to have a place to fly their hundreds to thousands $$ toy is just awful expensive. In addition they think they should never have to do any work. I suppose Peons will be Peons. >As a group, RCers think $100 a YEAR to have a place to fly their > hundreds to thousands $$ toy is just awful expensive. In addition they think > they should never have to do any work. > > I suppose Peons will be Peons. I think this dissertation written a few years back covers the subject as well as any I've ever seen. Modeler's, gotta love'em! by Dick Burkhalter As to the cheapness of R/C flyer's in comparison to golfers, fishermen and others who engage in expensive hobbies, I have some rather interesting psychological theories about that... Golf, fishing, owning and racing horses or cars, hunting or skeet shooting and a number of other expensive hobbies have always been regarded as adult hobbies to which kids might aspire. The general attitude regarding spending money on those hobbies is that of "I've earned it as a part of the growing up and becoming a man process, therefore I deserve to spend whatever I want on this hobby, which by the way I use to further my business "Contacts". On the other hand, building and flying model airplanes has traditionally been looked at as a juvenile hobby, which we're supposed to outgrow when we become men. The only men for whom model building and flying is considered a valid pastime are those who are somehow connected with doing it for business reasons. Hobby shop owners, model distributors, professional R/C competitors, special effects flyers for the movie or TV industry. Those guys are excused from criticism because, after all, they're making money at it and supplying all those toys we buy for our kids at Christmas. You may notice that even when there's a story in the popular press about some famous person who happens to be a modeler, it's almost always "and he used to build models as a kid," not "he has built models since he was a kid and continues to do so today." How this affects modeler's ability or willingness to spend money on his hobby and himself is quite obvious. Many of us still think we have to get permission from Daddy (or most accurately, Mommy) to spend some bucks on this "childish" pursuit we engage in, or we feel guilty if we spend more than our "allowance" on it. It's especially devastating to us to have to spend money to replace a model we crashed, because it's admitting we didn't know what we were doing. After all, "real men" don't build their own shotguns, bass boats, horses, golf clubs or whatever, and for sure they don't crash them and wreck them half the time they go out and enjoy their hobby. (Car racers are exceptions which prove the rule; they're considered only slightly more adult than us - we're pre-pubescent and they're teenagers, none of us has grown up anyway). If you're out with some of your friends and they're all talking about their hobbies, boasting of their golf scores or the fish they caught or how much money they won at the track last week, do you pipe up with news about your latest R/C success? Everyone who does, I'll give a buck. Everyone who doesn't, give me a buck. I'll have enough in a week to buy that new plane I've been lusting after. Even those who do, what kind of a reaction do you get? Sneers or laughter, I'll bet. Ribbing about still playing with kiddies toys and jokes about what's going to happen to you when you notice girls. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have had guys say to me upon seeing my models or hearing me talk about them, "Oh, yeah, I built those when I was a kid! I had this full house B-29 with six motors in it and full radio control and was flying it out of the baseball field when a bird hit it and it crashed!" Or some such story. I'll bet it's happened to everyone in here. If it's something that happens while you're in a group of guys, they'll all laugh and try to top each other's lies. What do you do? Do you stand up and say, "Hey, you guys, cut the B. S.! There's not a one of you who could a cut two sticks of balsa and make a straight spar! You were screwups when you were kids and you're still screwups now!" No, most likely you sit there and just try to ignore them, or you make some crack that indicates to all that you know they're fibbing and then turn the conversation to something else. So what it boils down to for many adult modeler's is that they're embarrassed about their hobby and don't want to call attention to themselves, so they don't pony up to buy and maintain a nice field where they can be proud to go. So they fly off garbage dumps and wonder why nobody wants to come out and play with them but the flies. ****** I don't know if Dick is still with us or not. He was living on one of the Hawaiian Islands and enjoying flying when I last heard from him. Red S. >I think this dissertation written a few years back covers the subject as >well as any I've ever seen. Agreed! Very good. I like the part about those that have to ask 'mommy'. It's a fact. >All I know is if I'm forced to join a club (they got all the land) AND >forced to buy their 'insurence' (AMA) There better be a nice field there >for my use. Screw clubs. Who could "FORCE" you to join a club? Some 130 individuals have DESIRED to join our club. Only $150 per year plus AMA membership, which I consider a sweet-heart of a deal for what many out-of-town contestants express as the best flying facility ever. No one is forced here. All are welcome as long as they will follow the rules. If not then 'Screw You'. |
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