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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / October 2004Iraqi dissidents wave model plane
Shown in a news clip where the attitude of the Iraqis toward Americans was being discussed (FOX News 12:26 PM, Saturday 6/19/04) was one Iraqi waving the fuselage of a model plane (pusher configuration) as others wave standard armaments in protest. Red S. > Shown in a news clip where the attitude of the Iraqis toward Americans was > being discussed (FOX News 12:26 PM, Saturday 6/19/04) was one Iraqi waving > the fuselage of a model plane (pusher configuration) as others wave standard > armaments in protest. > > Red S. Perhaps....... he was hoping someone would spot his predicament and send him a wing to fit it ??? Reg Did anyone else catch it? It was very brief, a couple of seconds at the most. Red S. > > Shown in a news clip where the attitude of the Iraqis toward Americans was > > being discussed (FOX News 12:26 PM, Saturday 6/19/04) was one Iraqi waving [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Reg Firther PROOF that Iraqis are all terrorists! We nned to outlaw these damned RC planes or we'll ALL Be in hot water! > Shown in a news clip where the attitude of the Iraqis toward Americans was > being discussed (FOX News 12:26 PM, Saturday 6/19/04) was one Iraqi waving > the fuselage of a model plane (pusher configuration) as others wave standard > armaments in protest. > > Red S. > Firther PROOF that Iraqis are all terrorists! We nned to outlaw these damned RC > planes or we'll ALL Be in hot water! Yep! That's it! Carry it to the extreme in an attempt to make a joke of it. Then maybe everyone will laugh and forget about it and write it all off as a stupid idea. Probably the same tactic used when the idea of flying hi-jacked airliners into buildings was first suggested. Fact of the matter is, the potential for such a thing to be a threat is real. Consider how much bad stuff could be carried by a 1/3 scale extra which is normally capable of hovering on the prop? And while you're at it, consider what the main difference is between your toy airplane and any one of the many UAV's in the world today? The answer is the size of the budget! Here's a link to one of the more popular ones out there and it is by no means the smallest: http://www.puav.com/intro.asp Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour endurance? Jeez, you really buy into the fear factor don't you! They're probably waving one of OUR tiny little spy planes our military is using. Did you think about that? > > Firther PROOF that Iraqis are all terrorists! We nned to outlaw these > damned RC [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > endurance? Fear factor? Not hardly. Just tired of all the fools here who claim models can't be used in this manner. And as for your comment about it maybe being one of ours, did you bother to read my comment of "Possibly the remnants of one of the many UAV's being used over there."? Of course the trick here is to understand that it is our military using so many of these things. > Jeez, you really buy into the fear factor don't you! They're probably waving > one of OUR tiny little spy planes our military is using. Did you think about [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > > endurance? > Fear factor? Not hardly. Just tired of all the fools here who claim models > can't be used in this manner. Its not can't. Its won't/wouldn't. Cost benefit analysis Chris. I know those are big scary words, but even terrorists know what they mean. > And as for your comment about it maybe being one of ours, did you bother to > read my comment of "Possibly the remnants of one of the many UAV's being [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >>>Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour >>>endurance? Never said they would or wouldn't! I'm simply stating that models could be used if so desired. Review your English Comprehension! As for would they use them? Hard to say. I suspect it depends on what they intended to do, how soon and what assets they had on hand. OTOH, how much does a tactical nuke weigh and could a 1/3 Extra pick it up? Chuck > > Fear factor? Not hardly. Just tired of all the fools here who claim models > > can't be used in this manner. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >>>Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > >>>endurance? > Never said they would or wouldn't! I'm simply stating that models could be > used if so desired. Review your English Comprehension! Might be better if you reviewed your previous posts... you just had congress involved a couple of posts up. Reg > > Never said they would or wouldn't! I'm simply stating that models could be > > used if so desired. Review your English Comprehension! > > Might be better if you reviewed your previous posts... you just had > congress involved a couple of posts up. Might be better if you learned how to follow a thread. The congress post was dealing with who in the government said what and why with regard to WMD and the Iraq threat. IOW that was back to the he said she said routine the libs like to play! 16 consecutive posts (somewhat off topic - we were talking about what appeared to be a model plane in the hands of Iraqi insurgents) from a guy that was going to leave the newsgroup? RS > 16 consecutive posts (somewhat off topic - we were talking about what > appeared to be a model plane in the hands of Iraqi insurgents) from a guy > that was going to leave the newsgroup? > > RS Never said I was going to leave the news group Red. Just would like to be able to ignore word twisting garbage like yourself! > Never said I was going to leave the news group Red. Just would like to be > able to ignore word twisting garbage like yourself! Then why don't you and give us all a break so we can get back to the intent of this NG? RS >> Never said I was going to leave the news group Red. Just would like to be >> able to ignore word twisting garbage like yourself! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > RS He is lying Red... he definitely posted to the effect that he was leaving the group. He is so far gone that the only recourse I see is to totally ignore him and get back to model planes. Reg > He is lying Red... he definitely posted to the effect that he was > leaving the group. He is so far gone that the only recourse I see is to > totally ignore him and get back to model planes. Show the post Reg! And make the entire post! None of this selective editing. >>He is lying Red... he definitely posted to the effect that he was >>leaving the group. He is so far gone that the only recourse I see is to >>totally ignore him and get back to model planes. > > Show the post Reg! And make the entire post! None of this selective > editing. The message can be found on Google groups. Search using: <sa22c0lruclcupicgj76gia14urcd115ar@4ax.com> ... but I think you'll find it's already been (incorrectly) selectively edited. It (looks like it) was Fred McClellan who said "I'm done with you and the news group." This message is not intended as support of you or your postings in any way. I still think you're just a plain old fashioned sh.t disturber. > > Never said I was going to leave the news group Red. Just would like to be > > able to ignore word twisting garbage like yourself! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > RS You first! >> appeared to be a model plane in the hands of Iraqi insurgents) from a guy >> that was going to leave the newsgroup? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Never said I was going to leave the news group Red. Just would like to be > able to ignore word twisting garbage like yourself! See there you go again !!! There was a post from you just the other week that quite clearly stated that you were going to leave the newsgroup. Someone even responded by saying that you would only pop up under another name. Now go on.... admit it.... you have completely lost the plot and don't know what you have said from one day to another. You are so stupid in fact that there is no point in further converse with you....... certainly not before you have a memory transplant. You have again displayed your own stupidity. Reg > 16 consecutive posts (somewhat off topic - we were talking about what > appeared to be a model plane in the hands of Iraqi insurgents) from a guy > that was going to leave the newsgroup? > > RS Unfortunately he never does though. Also its a post from a guy whose record bears out the fact that he seldom manages to know what he is on about.... senility ???? Guess he lives on a trailer park and TV reception is poor. That would explain why he flips about trying to cause arguments on here. Reg >> Might be better if you reviewed your previous posts... you just had >> congress involved a couple of posts up. > > Might be better if you learned how to follow a thread. Might be better if you went away and *quietly* practised your reading skills instead of making pathetic excuses. Come on admit it your an idiot who can't remember what he said... I will make allowance if your problem is age related, just tell us and we will lighten up if thats the case. Reg > >> Might be better if you reviewed your previous posts... you just had > >> congress involved a couple of posts up. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > make allowance if your problem is age related, just tell us and we will > lighten up if thats the case. You seem to be the one incapable of producing the post! You and Red that is! I'm pretty sure it was a Kadet .40 with flaps which, as we know, is capable of carrying a 40 lb. payload. Even more if it had a wing. MJC > Jeez, you really buy into the fear factor don't you! They're probably waving > one of OUR tiny little spy planes our military is using. Did you think about [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > > endurance? > I'm pretty sure it was a Kadet .40 with flaps which, as we know, is capable > of carrying a 40 lb. payload. Even more if it had a wing. Yes, but scurrying along the ground without a wing ensures it is harder to detect..... stealth fuselage ??? Reg > > I'm pretty sure it was a Kadet .40 with flaps which, as we know, is capable > > of carrying a 40 lb. payload. Even more if it had a wing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Reg You know, it's fun to make jokes about it. Especially since we know the impracticality of it. But those who would ban our hobby see it only as a possible threat. They look at the UAV industry and see how many of those resemble our models. Then they look at Predator and how it took out a car with a Hellfire. And they ask themselves, is this hobby worth the threat to our voters? Guess what happens next? And THAT is why we MUST educate those asking the questions. > > > I'm pretty sure it was a Kadet .40 with flaps which, as we know, is > capable [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > with a Hellfire. And they ask themselves, is this hobby worth the threat to > our voters? Guess what happens next? > And THAT is why we MUST educate those asking the questions. You're planning to educate Congress? Not to mention the government employees asking the questions? Would that be before or after you end world hunger, bring about world peace and find a cure to cancer? :) > > And THAT is why we MUST educate those asking the questions. > > You're planning to educate Congress? Not to mention the government > employees asking the questions? Would that be before or after you end world > hunger, bring about world peace and find a cure to cancer? :) YOU care about those????? I don't. The answer to your question should be obvious. We educate them or get put out of existance. >> > I'm pretty sure it was a Kadet .40 with flaps which, as we know, is > capable [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > with a Hellfire. And they ask themselves, is this hobby worth the threat to > our voters? Guess what happens next? At a guess....... The American voters exercise their God given right to panic, spill their pop-corn and Bush and his cohorts have another heaven sent opportunity to crank up their restriction of freedom by blaming possible terrorist threat...... why not ? They are making good progress on those lines already. The rest of the world watches as American paranoia runs rampant... again. While the Americans are freaking out over the possible demise of their country (by a wave of model planes)... OBL and his merry men depose the Saudi Royal family, thus causing oil prices to shoot through the roof and both Saudi Arabia and Iraq become strongholds of Islamic Fundamentalism. Hows that.... unrealistic ? Not when you consider Bush & co. think they have sorted out the problems in Iraq and it is shortly going to be run along democratic lines >:-)) Reg snip > At a guess....... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The rest of the world watches as American paranoia runs rampant... > again. Yeppers...I think all Ryder Rental Trucks should be banned too. :o) > While the Americans are freaking out over the possible demise of their > country (by a wave of model planes)... OBL and his merry men depose the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Reg Now why would OBL want to cut down their money tree? Isn't his family part of the upper echelon of the Saudi government who fed him the funds in the first place? His history includes investing in our stock market and members of his cult must've forgotten part of the Koran the night before they took over our planes by hiring prostitutes. I think their view of making this a "religious war" is just a convenience where everyone pays...except the coward himself. Gimme' a break... Greg > snip > Yeppers...I think all Ryder Rental Trucks should be banned too. :o) Whoa there ! Don't set them off on another panic attack. > Now why would OBL want to cut down their money tree? Isn't his family part > of the upper echelon of the Saudi government who fed him the funds in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "religious war" is just a convenience where everyone pays...except the > coward himself. Partly correct but.... OBL does not need funds from Saudi although there is apparently a group who support his aims and thus contribute. OBL is a very successful business man in his own right and has completed many multi million $/£ contracts and has ammassed a huge fortune by legitimate means prior to becoming a nuisance. A huge amount of funding came to his organisation through drug sales from the Taliban. You are correct about his investing... one thing that makes him so dangerous is his thorough (and practical) knowledge of western business and banking practices.... the guy can play the system with the best of them. He also seems to have access to people very knowledgable in modern communications and its limitations... with the funding at his disposal he can buy expertise in any area he wants. Finally.... OBL went to the Saudi royal family when Iraq invaded Kuwait. He apparently offered to fetch in 25,000 of his seasoned organisation and use them to push Iraq back out of Kuwait. Remember his organisation was well blooded after fighting the Russians for a number of years and he had battle-experienced people he could use. The Saudi royal family turned him down and managed to badly offend him at the same time... he is currently engaged in getting his own back and will possibly depose the House of Saud... which has been propped up by America for years and has never been very popular with most of the population. Right I have given you a break as you requested... time for you to get on track. The information is out there and a lot of it has been put together by Americans over many years.... not the clods that often appear on here I hasten to add !!!! Do some serious reading and research and don't just believe what is put out for popular consumption. You will find that OBL is a very complex character from a very complex background. He is highly intelligent and poses a threat quite unlike anything the west has experienced before..... American intelligence sources quotes..... not mine. Reg > > snip snipped some interesting information here. > Right I have given you a break as you requested... time for you to get > on track. The information is out there and a lot of it has been put [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Reg Guess I need to dig into this deeper. Now, to weed out the nonsense information and find the somewhat plausible middle ground. Thanks for the break :o) Greg > > You know, it's fun to make jokes about it. Especially since we know the > > impracticality of it. But those who would ban our hobby see it only as a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > they have sorted out the problems in Iraq and it is shortly going to be > run along democratic lines >:-)) You know, you have the knack of seeing someone post a specific item and you think that is the sum total of their focus. Just because I say models COULD be used doesn't mean I think they are being used. Though I do suspect they've been considered and I see that reason for the government to cause us a lot of trouble. And by models I mean of ALL sizes. But at the same time, it also doesn't mean I'm not watching and am concerned about other events. Like how these kidnappings and beheadings are going to make the ignorant masses of world society quiver in fear and run even more. Spain turned coward and joined the ranks of established cowards. Let's see how the latest affects S. Korea! Certainly lots of that sort here too! > You know, you have the knack of seeing someone post a specific item and you > think that is the sum total of their focus. My response is geared to responding to someone whose posts and postion shifts constantly. It is amazing how your stance changes, even faster than someone versed in ballroom dancing I would say. You give the impression of someone who goes out of his way just to create argument and dissent, whilst at the same time displaying a stunning ignorance. >Just because I say models COULD > be used doesn't mean I think they are being used. Though I do suspect > they've been considered and I see that reason for the government to cause us > a lot of trouble. And by models I mean of ALL sizes. But at the same time, > it also doesn't mean I'm not watching and am concerned about other events. The world will doubtless sleep much easier with the knowledge that you are watching. (God help us !!!) > Like how these kidnappings and beheadings are going to make the ignorant > masses of world society quiver in fear and run even more. Spain turned > coward and joined the ranks of established cowards. Let's see how the latest > affects S. Korea! Certainly lots of that sort here too! Might I just remind you that it was not so long ago that you posted a lengthy missive that quoted some military guy as saying that the military were firmly in control in Iraq and the terrorists were fleeing. I think I pointed out on more then one occasion that you seem to be reading the wrong comics !!! Reg > You give the impression of someone who goes out of his way just to > create argument and dissent, whilst at the same time displaying a > stunning ignorance. If that's the case then you certainly jump to the bait! >>Firther PROOF that Iraqis are all terrorists! We nned to outlaw these > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > as a stupid idea. Probably the same tactic used when the idea of flying > hi-jacked airliners into buildings was first suggested. Nope. I think they made that one into a disaster movie. Next Al Qaeda will be terrorising the beaches with drug crazed white sharks... ...and north korea will be diverting asteroids into NYC. All we need now is Bin Laden in a Joker mask, and Hollywoods dreams will be a reality. > Fact of the matter is, the potential for such a thing to be a threat is > real. Consider how much bad stuff could be carried by a 1/3 scale extra > which is normally capable of hovering on the prop? And while you're at it, > consider what the main difference is between your toy airplane and any one > of the many UAV's in the world today? The answer is the size of the budget! Oh, yeah, right. So instead of just loading a 2 ton car bomb up and driving into a amss of peple, we are gound to have a senior 60 loaded up with 2lb of semtex, and guided with precision accuracy into the white house? With at best the power of a grenade, and less range than an RPG, and probably far less accuracy, and able to be kbnocked out by antyine transmitting on well known frequencies? Get real. Terrorists are not that sophisticated technically, although the political psychology as GWB eating out of Bin Laden's hands. So far everthing he has done has increased the risk. Suicide bombers are cheap, readily available thanks to Dubyas crass stupidity, can me mas produced with only 9 months labour, and are far more sophisticated and accurate guidance systems than all but the very best cruise missiles. > Here's a link to one of the more popular ones out there and it is by no > means the smallest: http://www.puav.com/intro.asp > Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > endurance? A lot less tha ncan be done witha toyota picklup, with unlimited endurance, and a fanatic at teh wheel, and a 2 ton payload. The oly purpose of UAV's is to save on expensive pilots who might get killed. If teh pilots are cheap, and the cars are cheap, who is going to bother with a UAV? Stop thinking like a Merkin, and start thinking like an Islamic religious maniac. If more people had bothered to do that years ago, we wouldn't be in this f.cking mess. AMEN BROTHER! > >>Firther PROOF that Iraqis are all terrorists! We nned to outlaw these > > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > If more people had bothered to do that years ago, we wouldn't be in this > f.cking mess. > Fact of the matter is, the potential for such a thing to be a threat is > real. Consider how much bad stuff could be carried by a 1/3 scale extra > which is normally capable of hovering on the prop? And while you're at it, > consider what the main difference is between your toy airplane and any one > of the many UAV's in the world today? The answer is the size of the budget! I don't thing our military has much fear of a garishly colored prop hovering trick plane. They would be more worried about someone spending less money and time to get a RPG and launch it from where the goofball with the RC TX is standing. My toy airplane doesn't have the 30+ foot wing span of an armed UAV such as the Predator, or even an unarmed Hercules. If I had the budget for one, I could also make a missle or a really nasty bomb and cause some pretty nasty damage to an unsuspecting enemy. But if I had the brains, budget and time to make such a destructive weapons system, I would not be the whack job rag head Allah praising, Al Queda type you seem so scared of. > Here's a link to one of the more popular ones out there and it is by no > means the smallest: http://www.puav.com/intro.asp > Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > endurance? Hmmm.. You ever wonder why its a recon aircraft, and not armed? Do you think the thought crossed anyones mind before? They are not effective. Until you scale 'em up in size and complexity, they are not suitable weapons platforms. Once they are effective, they are either an unmanned jet fighter, or they are a cruise missle. Either one aint being built in any of our dinky little RC workshops. >> Fact of the matter is, the potential for such a thing to be a threat is >> real. Consider how much bad stuff could be carried by a 1/3 scale extra [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > spending less money and time to get a RPG and launch it from where the > goofball with the RC TX is standing. Ah... sanity comes to the discussion at last. Who is going to prat about with a dinky toy plane when you can make a 1,000 pound car bomb ? Some of you guys would be better selling your hobby gear and investing in the tools to dig a shelter so you can park your quaking a.ses in it. Reg How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . Almost none whatsoever. > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . I'll bet enough damage to cause Congress to consider a closer look at this hobby! >> How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 >> pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . > > I'll bet enough damage to cause Congress to consider a closer look at this > hobby! Nowhere near as much as a dirty bomb would cause though.... radiation everywhere..... government agencies reckon its only a matter of time ! Now there's something to really get your teeth into and panick about ! Why would terrorists want to play with a teeny, weeny toy plane ??? Government in the Uk has been holding emergency drills and preparing the emergency services for just such an eventuality and/or chemical attack. Come out into the real world...... you have been playing with toy planes too long. Reg You dunderpate, congress also feels that weapons responsible for less than 1000th of a percent of all gun related crimes are the ones that need to be made illegal. Gov will do what it wants to do, regardless of the facts. Government will invent a problem to justify expanding its sphere of control until it becomes total. This totalitarianism is cruising towards the end-zone, and chuckleheads like yourself have become their slutty little chearleaders. > > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . > > I'll bet enough damage to cause Congress to consider a closer look at this > hobby! Lets just hope they don't start banning hunting rifles when they find out that they have the same capability as a simi auto assault rifle! > You dunderpate, congress also feels that weapons responsible for less > than 1000th of a percent of all gun related crimes are the ones that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I'll bet enough damage to cause Congress to consider a closer look at this > > hobby! > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . It depends. 5 pounds of C4 in a shaped charge can punch a nice precision hole, or in a unidirectional blast, it can shake things a bit. I suppose if you could pilot into a substation through the interference, you may luck out and shut it down.... Or, you could trow a 20lb satchel charge and have a much better chance of shutting it down. To strike a grid, you would need strong intelligence and a solid cruise missle model capable of fly-by-wire. The jobbie would have to hit a 3' square or less target area and explode at the right time to deliver the shock wave appropriately to the target. Or, you could throw a satchel charge at it and be sure the job was done right. The key is intelligence and the will to strike. Few have the grapes, fewer still have the brains. Our hobby is not dangerous to anyone. Even our fuel(non synthetic) is harmless to the land. Cruise missles are WAY different than R/C airplanes, but understanding R/C is a springboard to knowledge of aerospace. The govermedia tells us that they are dangerous, not because they hurt people but because the knowledge empowers people. Model rocketry is now subject to ATF because the engines are defined as explosive devices! They arent afraid of model rocket engines or toy airplanes, they are afraid of the children of the USA growing up with knowledge of rocketry and aerospace. Why?.... after a few more years of news items like this..... those kids may become 'terrorists', or try to escape this enormous prison colony. Today I read about a school teacher being dragged from her cruise ship berth at 6:30am in leg irons to a federal judge because of leaving her chocholate milk on a picknick table in Yellowstone, even though she had already paid for the ticket. http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/18/marshmallows.ap/index.html A kid tried to perform a citizens arrest on a cop for speeding, and he and his entire family were locked up in jail and his father was tazed in the process. http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-06-21-speed_x.htm I think that knowledge is the only thing that can free mankind. In that sense, our silly little hobby is VERY important to freedom. And yet, your portrayal of these two stories leaves out much. Probably because you hope few will read them and really understand what went on. Your implied shock and horror at these outrages is left at the gate when the whole story is taken into account. And all this implies that you are simply trying to rouse the rabble for your own interests. Isn't that what you accuse me and even the government of doing? > > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > I think that knowledge is the only thing that can free mankind. In > that sense, our silly little hobby is VERY important to freedom. You are far more subtle than I give you credit for. You are trying to convince people to dismiss my links offhand by diversion. I do leave out much, like how the judge apoligized to the teachers aid for the ordeal she was forced to endure. I also left out the implications of citizens being shakled and drug to court from their slumber for a very trivial misdemeanor offense. As to the imprisoned "upstanding" christian family, perhaps you mean that I left out how they all were thorwn in jail because the 23 yr old son dared to demand that an officer of the law not act like he is above it. Better yet C.O. state worshiper, please explain what you think is so important that was witheld? > And yet, your portrayal of these two stories leaves out much. Probably > because you hope few will read them and really understand what went on. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > I think that knowledge is the only thing that can free mankind. In > > that sense, our silly little hobby is VERY important to freedom. > Better yet C.O. state worshiper, please explain what you think is so > important that was witheld? Your silence! Look, Im sorry if you feel picked on, but you need to get a grip and quit offering your opinion on issues that you do not fully understand. It will prevent people from trapping you in debate. You are a smart guy, explore a little more. Build an rc airplane and fly your creation around- enjoy the thrill and sense of empowerment, and in the process you will understand why these craft are not suitable to destroy buildings and equipment. > > Better yet C.O. state worshiper, please explain what you think is so > > important that was witheld? > > Your silence! Gee, you top posted and for some reason, it didn't snip everything...hmmm. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > And yet, your portrayal of these two stories leaves out much. Probably > because you hope few will read them and really understand what went on. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > I think that knowledge is the only thing that can free mankind. In > > that sense, our silly little hobby is VERY important to freedom. 10lbs of C4 in a fragmentation case would take out a major sub-station. That would likely trigger a massive event if done in the NE. A Senior Kadette or Telemaster could easily carry that. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . Lemme see if I understand what it looks like you think you said. The fragmentation case is weightless? OBTW, exactly HOW is the target acquired and engaged? That is a very non trivial detail. Better known as a show stopper. > 10lbs of C4 in a fragmentation case would take out a major sub-station. > That would likely trigger a massive event if done in the NE. A Senior [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . A telemaster could carry FAR more than just the 10lb of explosive. I could guide a senior Telemaster to the center of a substation quite easily with just plain old eyesight. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Lemme see if I understand what it looks like you think you said. The > fragmentation case is weightless? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > > > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . > A telemaster could carry FAR more than just the 10lb of explosive. > > I could guide a senior Telemaster to the center of a substation quite easily > with just plain old eyesight. Gee! How hard would it be to rig GPS and an auto pilot? Duh! Oh yeah! That's against AMA rules. Sorry, I forgot! > > A telemaster could carry FAR more than just the 10lb of explosive. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Gee! How hard would it be to rig GPS and an auto pilot? Duh! Oh yeah! > That's against AMA rules. Sorry, I forgot! Paul is right, it can be done by the Mark I eyeball, but that misses the key point. Jones is right it can be done with a programmed GPS system and an autopilot, but that ALSO misses the key point. Engage you intellect and THINK about what it takes to get a model on target FROM the launch point. Exactly how is the model to be flown from the launch point to the target in such a manner to avoid wire strikes and other obstacles? If it is to be done automatically the payload goes down and the complexity goes up. BTW, most call that a 'cruise missle'. Using the low tech approach (Mark I eyeball and people with/near/around the aircraft can be done, but with great risk to the success of the effort. Do you guys really think no one will notice some idjiot going down the road flying a model in congested places (which is where substations are found). I have seen plenty of substations outside the edges of populated areas. One of the main SMUD south substations has very large fields around it and used to handle the power from the Rancho Seco nuclear power plant. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > > A telemaster could carry FAR more than just the 10lb of explosive. > > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > notice some idjiot going down the road flying a model in congested places > (which is where substations are found). > > > A telemaster could carry FAR more than just the 10lb of explosive. > > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > notice some idjiot going down the road flying a model in congested places > (which is where substations are found). Never said it would be easy! But you know as well as I do that money has a way of making the seemingly impossible quite possible. And money is one things these terrorists seem capable of finding. How about a 42 pound laser guided glide weapon that can take out an M-1 Abrams? What might that do at some outdoor event attended by some dignitary? And getting it there could prove easier than one might think. It would knock out about 4 houses. > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . So now the dissidents are what? Beginning to agree that it could do something? > It would knock out about 4 houses. > > > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . I doubt it. To cut something, you need close proximity and a directional blast. The pressure required to blow an average house down is not going to come from 5lbs. > It would knock out about 4 houses. > > > How much damage could a kadet senior or 1/4 scale cause carrying 5 > > pounds of the best explosive into a major power grid, etc . > > Fact of the matter is, the potential for such a thing to be a threat is > > real. Consider how much bad stuff could be carried by a 1/3 scale extra [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > either an unmanned jet fighter, or they are a cruise missle. Either > one aint being built in any of our dinky little RC workshops. BINGO! Yeah, if ya can't kill something or someone with it, it ain't worth having. That's neocon right wing hawk thinking anyway. > > Fact of the matter is, the potential for such a thing to be a threat is > > real. Consider how much bad stuff could be carried by a 1/3 scale extra [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > either an unmanned jet fighter, or they are a cruise missle. Either > one aint being built in any of our dinky little RC workshops. By decree of C.O.Jones, RC'ers will now need to register with the BATF to obtain a license to build toy airplanes. Hurry 'for the terrorists gets us all! > > Firther PROOF that Iraqis are all terrorists! We nned to outlaw these > damned RC [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Wonder what could be done with that 100 pound payload and 5.5 hour > endurance? Does Tower Hobbies deliver to Iraq ? If so any numbskull with a credit card and an address can buy an RC airplane. Making a weapon out of the thing is another story. I'll bet that for the $500 it would take to get a trainer and all the accesories to fly it any terrorist could do alot more damage with other more easily obtained weapons designed and built for military use. > Does Tower Hobbies deliver to Iraq ? > If so any numbskull with a credit card and an address can buy an RC airplane. > Making a weapon out of the thing is another story. > I'll bet that for the $500 it would take to get a trainer and all the > accesories to fly it any terrorist could do alot more damage with other more > easily obtained weapons designed and built for military use. Or stuff from the grocery store down the street. > By decree of C.O.Jones, RC'ers will now need to register with the BATF > to obtain a license to build toy airplanes. Hurry 'for the terrorists > gets us all! There you go! Putting words into others mouths yet again! But then, you would rather just surrender to everyone via appeasement wouldn't you? Surrender! to whom? Who is attacking me, taking my freedoms away, endangering me in my own home? These invading mongols are not in Iraq good sir, they are in DC, and they are sitting behind your keyboard. Just keep on being an appologist for tyrany and an appeaser of those who take our freedoms from us and you will soon taste of your own treachery. I am a red blooded, commie hatin' American who fights for the USA, and no one else. You at best have capitulated to tyrants, or at worst are a servant of our enemies who has sold out his own countrymen. > > By decree of C.O.Jones, RC'ers will now need to register with the BATF > > to obtain a license to build toy airplanes. Hurry 'for the terrorists > > gets us all! > > There you go! Putting words into others mouths yet again! But then, you > would rather just surrender to everyone via appeasement wouldn't you? You should know that most of the provisions of the Patriot Act have not been used against one American citizen, lots of aliens but no citizens. It may soon expire with many provisions unused. > Surrender! to whom? Who is attacking me, taking my freedoms away, > endangering me in my own home? These invading mongols are not in Iraq [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > There you go! Putting words into others mouths yet again! But then, you > > would rather just surrender to everyone via appeasement wouldn't you? You are absoulutely incorrect. Most of the PATRIOT involves expanding the bank secrecy act. Now banks are required to spy on you, and all of your financial records are open. Add to that your doctors office is now a financial institution and your med records are now financial transactions. Americans have been illegally searched and arrested without probable cause. The only arrests stemming from PATRIOT that you hear about are where the gag order was defied- when arrested, searched or questioned under the PATRIOT, you are committing a crime if you tell anyone. Night and Fog..... It happens again my friend. > You should know that most of the provisions of the Patriot Act have > not been used against one American citizen, lots of aliens but no [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > There you go! Putting words into others mouths yet again! But then, you > > > would rather just surrender to everyone via appeasement wouldn't you? You sir wouldn't know a true patriot if one spit in your eye! But just wait and I'll see if I can arrange an introduction! > Surrender! to whom? Who is attacking me, taking my freedoms away, > endangering me in my own home? These invading mongols are not in Iraq [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > There you go! Putting words into others mouths yet again! But then, you > > would rather just surrender to everyone via appeasement wouldn't you? Are you threatening me you little communist/collectivist pissant! You are a fool, and I hope you come to teach me a lesson in person. I will introduce you to the second amendment and break your mothers heart. But invite your little mongol friends you pusswad- all of you are invited to leave the gene pool. You don't know your fu@#in' with dumbass- I know who you are..... > You sir wouldn't know a true patriot if one spit in your eye! But just wait > and I'll see if I can arrange an introduction! [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > you > > > would rather just surrender to everyone via appeasement wouldn't you? C.O.Jones <ifyouneedit@yougotit.com> scribed in <9L4Bc.10272$cj3.4686@lakeread01>: >Here's a link to one of the more popular ones out there and it is >by no means the smallest: http://www.puav.com/intro.asp thats quite an amazing bit of kit wish I was on the development team..... swarf, steam and wind -- David -:- the email address is real but not forever /"\ http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ / ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail > - - - - - - -> X If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \ PLEASE pretend you don't know me. Possibly the remnants of one of the many UAV's being used over there. > Shown in a news clip where the attitude of the Iraqis toward Americans was > being discussed (FOX News 12:26 PM, Saturday 6/19/04) was one Iraqi waving > the fuselage of a model plane (pusher configuration) as others wave standard > armaments in protest. > > Red S. Excuse me folksssssssssss I gotta go check my medication. I'm starting to feal shaky tomb Yep. G.W. just leaves keeping everybody shaking in their boots. Even after proven wrong by the whole world he just keeps spouting the same lies. I've stopped worrying about him. He'll be gone in November. All he has to do is just keep lieing to us and being proved to be lieing. Americans will only take so much bullshit! > Excuse me folksssssssssss I gotta go check my medication. I'm starting to > feal shaky > > tomb > Yep. G.W. just leaves keeping everybody shaking in their boots. Even after > proven wrong by the whole world he just keeps spouting the same lies. I've > stopped worrying about him. He'll be gone in November. All he has to do is > just keep lieing to us and being proved to be lieing. Americans will only > take so much bullshit! What lies are you claiming now? Perhaps we should get some of the left wing quotes out here too! You know the ones, where Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry, Dean and others all state that something needs to be done about Saddam and the Iraqi threat! Or are we pretending that the left has never, ever said anything like that? They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge and authority. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > Yep. G.W. just leaves keeping everybody shaking in their boots. Even after > > proven wrong by the whole world he just keeps spouting the same lies. I've [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Iraqi threat! Or are we pretending that the left has never, ever said > anything like that? > They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge > and authority. No they aren't! But they are Senators and Congressmen speaking from the supposed position of knowledge and authority! >>They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge >>and authority. > > No they aren't! But they are Senators and Congressmen speaking from the > supposed position of knowledge and authority! Since when did any politician know about anything? DOH! You don't think George Bush is a politician? C'mon! > >>They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge > >>and authority. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > Since when did any politician know about anything? >> They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge >> and authority. > > No they aren't! But they are Senators and Congressmen speaking from the > supposed position of knowledge and authority! Thats the keyword........ supposed. It was supposed, nay even assumed, that they were also being fed from creditable and upto-date intelligence sources..... Bwahahaha Lets recap..... Iraq has weapons of mass destruction............. Bwahahaha Iraq is supporting and in league with Al Qaeda.... Bwahahaha Iraq was involved in 9-11................ Bwahahahahaha Reg Let me add to that...Chalabi is our friend....Bwwwwahhhha > >> They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge > >> and authority. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Reg > >> They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge > >> and authority. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Reg Reg is a creditable and up to-date intelligence source..... Bwahahaha >> >> They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of > knowledge [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Reg is a creditable and up to-date intelligence source..... Bwahahaha See you display your crass stupidity again... Reg *actually* reads and *compares* creditable intelligence sources. You were the guy, who a few days ago, tried to tell me that the Iraqi's were burying their planes in the sand in order to be able to use them again.................. BWAHAHAHA You were also the guy who, a few weeks ago, quoted some stupid source which said that the American military were so on top of the terrorists in Iraq that they were fleeing the country..... BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA You are also probably convinced that shrubs decision to attack Iraq is going to, eventualy, be seen as a good thing........... BWAHAHAHAHA Time will (unfortunately) show just how daft you are... "unfortunately" because a lot of people will probably die along the. Reg > You were also the guy who, a few weeks ago, quoted some stupid source > which said that the American military were so on top of the terrorists > in Iraq In some of teh jails that seems to be the positioon they adoprt. Is it called the 'missionary position' >that they were fleeing the country..... BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA I believe the american military is about to do just that, yes. >> You were also the guy who, a few weeks ago, quoted some stupid source >> which said that the American military were so on top of the terrorists >> in Iraq > > In some of teh jails that seems to be the positioon they adoprt. Is it > called the 'missionary position' Just be careful or you will upset CO Jones (Critically Off-balance Jones) >:-) >>that they were fleeing the country..... BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA > > I believe the american military is about to do just that, yes. Ah yes but... there will be a democratic government replacing them and everything is going to be just fine (time out for raucous laughter) ! Reg >>>>They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Reg is a creditable and up to-date intelligence source..... Bwahahaha Somewhat more credible than some others much closer to the president. > Lets recap..... > Iraq has weapons of mass destruction............. Bwahahaha > Iraq is supporting and in league with Al Qaeda.... Bwahahaha These two have been proven to be true, but the liberal press won't print it. There are documents showing the programs of the weopons, even the UN admits they had them, the terrorists have enen tried to use WMD against our troups. The recent 9-11 commision has found many examples of Iraq in league with Al Qaeda, just no proof that they had anything to do with 9-11 attacks, except for Iraqi news editorials which said that Islamists terrorists will attack the Pentagon, White House, and New York. > > Lets recap..... > > Iraq has weapons of mass destruction............. Bwahahaha [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > attacks, except for Iraqi news editorials which said that Islamists > terrorists will attack the Pentagon, White House, and New York. Certainly seems to be a lot of smoke coming from that non-existent fire! Liberal press! Man, where have you been? If there was any evidence, it would be shouted from the rooftops! I will bite though.... Please provide any evidence that you can find, I bet you a 6-pack that you can't provide a shred of credible evidence to back your statement. > > Lets recap..... > > Iraq has weapons of mass destruction............. Bwahahaha [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > attacks, except for Iraqi news editorials which said that Islamists > terrorists will attack the Pentagon, White House, and New York. You won't get any! There is none. It was all a disinformation campaign to justify getting Hussain! Cheney insisted as recently as last January that Washington had obtained "conclusive" evidence that Hussein had biological weapons in the form of two customized truck trailers that he said was for their production. The claim, which he has not repeated since, was discredited by, among others, outgoing Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Director George Tenet, as well as the head of the U.S. task force in charge of searching for alleged weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in Iraq, David Kay. More? A hint of a deliberate campaign to connect Iraq with 9/11 and al-Qaeda surfaced one year ago in a televised interview of General Wesley Clark on the popular public-affairs program, Meet the Press. In answer to a question, Clark asserted, "there was a concerted effort during the fall of 2001, starting immediately after 9/11, to pin 9/11 and the terrorism problem on Saddam Hussein." "It came from the White House, it came from other people around the White House. It came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'you got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein.'" While Clark has not yet identified who called him, Perle, Woolsey, Gaffney and Kristol were using the same language in their media appearances on 9/11 and over the following weeks. "This could not have been done without help of one or more governments," Perle told The Washington Post on Sept. 11. "Someone taught these suicide bombers how to fly large airplanes. I don't think that can be done without the assistance of large governments." thought? -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Liberal press! Man, where have you been? If there was any evidence, > it would be shouted from the rooftops! I will bite though.... Please [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > attacks, except for Iraqi news editorials which said that Islamists > > terrorists will attack the Pentagon, White House, and New York. >> Lets recap..... >> Iraq has weapons of mass destruction............. Bwahahaha [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > even the UN admits they had them, the terrorists have enen tried to > use WMD against our troups. I don't know what you are reading sunshine, but it is way out of kilter with the *worlds* perception, research and reporting of events. The "experts" who are supposed to know about these things reckon that the WMD were got rid of years ago. How come the worlds media, that is outside of the USA have never come up with these wild claims. Even the Rupert Murdoch controlled media has never gone that far... go on tell me that Murdoch is a liberal. The weapons inspectors were convinced that there were no WMD and said so, but that didn't suit shrub and co. Anyone with the vaguest knowledge of the area and Islamic Fundamentalism will quite categorically assure you that there would never have been co-operation between Saddam and Bin Laden.... Saddam actually embodied everything OBL was was trying to destroy. Go read some serious material. It was all researched some time ago by various people including American advisors. If its in the popular press then it probably bears little relevance to the truth !!! Reg > The recent 9-11 commision has found many examples of Iraq in league > with Al Qaeda, just no proof that they had anything to do with 9-11 > attacks, except for Iraqi news editorials which said that Islamists > terrorists will attack the Pentagon, White House, and New York. "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message ID<EymBc.17726$NK4.3109583@stones.force9.net>on Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:36:35 +0100 >They aren't the president speaking from the supposed position of knowledge >and authority. Liberals do not ever speak from the position of knowledge...supposed or otherwise. > "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message > ID<EymBc.17726$NK4.3109583@stones.force9.net>on Sun, 20 Jun 2004 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Liberals do not ever speak from the position of knowledge...supposed > or otherwise. Is that a matter of dogma, with you, then? The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> posted message ID<cb6bdi$kfe$2$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:55:42 +0100 >> "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message >> ID<EymBc.17726$NK4.3109583@stones.force9.net>on Sun, 20 Jun 2004 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Is that a matter of dogma, with you, then? Pretty much. Liberals I have known over the years say the darndest things. They intentionally twist the facts and make up stuff out of thin air. They subscribe to the Joseph Goebbles school of 'Invent the lie and repeat it often enough and it becomes the truth' propaganda. They do so often enough that I pretty much demand solid evidence to support anything a liberal says. Lacking such evidence, (as liberals usually do) I dismiss them out of hand. Gee, just like Shrub? So, where are the WMDs? That IS why we went to war, isn't it? -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> posted message > ID<cb6bdi$kfe$2$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:55:42 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > support anything a liberal says. Lacking such evidence, (as liberals > usually do) I dismiss them out of hand. "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message ID<BxGBc.18294$NK4.3197734@stones.force9.net>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:20:59 +0100 >Gee, just like Shrub? So, where are the WMDs? That IS why we went to war, >isn't it? Wanna know where they're at? Here's a cl00 for you: http://216.26.163.62/2004/me_iraq_06_11.html Also, note how conveniently you neglect to note that Liberals, including Slick Willie and John F'ing Kerry were also talking about Iraq's WMD in the past. Naw...let's blame it all on George, instead. Thank you for proving my point. > "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message > ID<BxGBc.18294$NK4.3197734@stones.force9.net>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > including Slick Willie and John F'ing Kerry were also talking about > Iraq's WMD in the past. Naw...let's blame it all on George, instead. *In the past*, they actually has some. I notice the US deficit topped out at a record high last week, The country now owes more people more money than at any time in history. Gas has never been more expensive. The markets are sliding. (Must sell em short) The dollar is sliding. And it took the Saudis to actually catch someone from Al Qaeda. Well fairs fair, most of them are Saudis anyway. After flattening Iraq it took several months to find one babbling old man in a bunker. Great. Really great. That's my sort of president. Sieg bloody Rumsfeld. > Thank you for proving my point. Well Said! > > "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message > > ID<BxGBc.18294$NK4.3197734@stones.force9.net>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > > Thank you for proving my point. The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> posted message ID<cb7njm$pnn$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:29:46 +0100 >> "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message >> ID<BxGBc.18294$NK4.3197734@stones.force9.net>on Mon, 21 Jun 2004 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >*In the past*, they actually has some. Try reading for comprehension. The weapons parts mentioned in the story were shipped out of Iraq just before and during the war. >I notice the US deficit topped out at a record high last week, The >country now owes more people more money than at any time in history. I note your attempt to change the subject. Typical liberal tactic. Nonetheless, I will address your whine. The deficit does not equal national debt. Debt is what we owe. Deficit is how much more we're spending vs. what we take in for a given time peroid. While I am no big fan of deficit spending, I do believe that national security is one instance that justifies it. >Gas has never been more expensive. Not when you adjust for inflation. When taken as a percentage of my hourly wage, gas costs me less now than it did when it was 50 cents per gallon. >The markets are sliding. (Must sell em short) Say what? The markets are quite healthy these days. I only wish I had more free cash to invest. >The dollar is sliding. Compared to what? >And it took the Saudis to actually catch someone from Al Qaeda. Well >fairs fair, most of them are Saudis anyway. > >After flattening Iraq it took several months to find one babbling old >man in a bunker. Something the britts couldn't do. Your point? >Great. Really great. That's my sort of president. Since when does a britt cross-dressing poofter have a president? >Sieg bloody Rumsfeld. > >> Thank you for proving my point. > >Gas has never been more expensive. > > Not when you adjust for inflation. When taken as a percentage of my > hourly wage, gas costs me less now than it did when it was 50 cents > per gallon. And still a far sight less than what they pay in the old countries! >> >Gas has never been more expensive. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And still a far sight less than what they pay in the old countries! A little revision on your part.... I know it doesn't come easy to you.. and you may just stumble across the fact that... One of the motives for shrub and co. takin |
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