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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / June 2004



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PCM or PPM?

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Len Cuff - 24 Jun 2004 16:57 GMT
Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?

cheers,
      Len
Dr1Driver - 24 Jun 2004 17:21 GMT
>Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?

Unless you fly in downtown LA, I see no reason for the $$$ of PCM.  

True, PCM has failsafe, but that sometimes crashes your plane.  A plane can fly
through intermittent interference most times.  A PCM detects interference and
locks the controls.  This is good, unless you're in a vertical dive at the
time.  After the interference is gone, it takes a couple of seconds to return
control to the TX.  That might be a couple of seconds too long.

I've flown PPM over 15 years, and never lost a plane to interference.
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Robert A. Plourde Jr. - 25 Jun 2004 21:27 GMT
With PCM any interference is masked because, most people just leave it on
the default, which is to 'lock' the controls.  With PPM, you will see
glitches in the flight and land the plane, before a potential crash, and try
to find the problem.

> >Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Dr.1 Driver
> "There's a Hun in the sun!"
Courseyauto - 25 Jun 2004 23:58 GMT
Quote:

With PCM any interference is masked because, most people just leave it on
the default, which is to 'lock' the controls.  With PPM, you will see
glitches in the flight and land the plane, before a potential crash, and try
to find the problem.
......................................

In your dream world it might..............
Dr1Driver - 26 Jun 2004 14:08 GMT
> In your dream world it might..............

My "dream world" is out on the flying field, where it DOES happen.  It's
happened to me.

A plane will twitch in the air, indicating intermittent interference.  That's
when you land and investigate.  Continual interference, such as someone turning
on a transmitter on your channel, is usually fatal no matter what mode you fly.

Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Matthew P. Cummings - 27 Jun 2004 03:38 GMT
> My "dream world" is out on the flying field, where it DOES happen.  It's
> happened to me.

It's happened to me as well.  It's a real thing, not something made up and
I'd bet that anybody who's flown enough has had it happen to them as well.

Of course I think a plane that's able to show it helps.  I.e. a slow
trainer that barely responds to a full deflection control command won't
show much reaction to a hit whereas a 3D capable plane will show a hit
pretty easily.
Courseyauto - 24 Jun 2004 17:21 GMT
MJC - 24 Jun 2004 17:23 GMT
Do a search using those terms on www.rcgroups.com and you'll get a ton of
opinions. Everything that can be said about the subject HAS been said about
the subject over there so there's no reason to start the argument all over
again here.

MJC

> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len
Len Cuff - 24 Jun 2004 17:36 GMT
>Do a search using those terms on www.rcgroups.com and you'll get a ton of
>opinions. Everything that can be said about the subject HAS been said about
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> cheers,
>>        Len

Apologies, I wasn't trying to start an argument! My son has just built
a P51 Mustang and took it to the local shop for checking. The shop
owner swapped his PCM receiver for a PPM receiver saying that as he
had a 4 stroke engine, PPM would be better due to the increased
'noise' from the 4 stroke.  So did he get a good deal or was he
duped?? The swap was free BTW but should he get his PCM back?

TIA

cheers,
      Len
Don Hatten - 24 Jun 2004 17:42 GMT
Wow, first I've heard of that.  Did the hobby shop guy also refund the
difference in price for a PPM vs. a PCM receiver?  The PCM receivers are
quite a bit more money.  If the guy did a "free" swap, you were on the
losing end of that deal.

Don

> Apologies, I wasn't trying to start an argument! My son has just built
> a P51 Mustang and took it to the local shop for checking. The shop
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> cheers,
>        Len
Bill - 24 Jun 2004 19:57 GMT
I think you got screwed.  PCM receivers are  more expensive than PPM. If the
guy told you PPM was better than PCM, he flat lied to you. As far as which
is better, opinions abound. Some guys swear by, and some guys swear at PCM.
Personally, all of my giant scale planes get PCM. I regularly use both with
no problems. IMHO. (I think your LHS took advantage of you, though)
Bill

> >Do a search using those terms on www.rcgroups.com and you'll get a ton of
> >opinions. Everything that can be said about the subject HAS been said about
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> cheers,
>        Len
Red Scholefield - 24 Jun 2004 21:09 GMT
Your local hobby shop stuck it to you, regardless of which is "better".
They probably took your R138DF receiver worth $ 119.99 and gave you an
R127DF  worth $64.99 . Take a Tower add with you or print out from their web
page and have a talk with your local hobby shop crook.  Increased noise from
a glo four stroke over a glo two stroke? Again he was wetting down your leg.

Red S.

> "Len Cuff" <thecuffs@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>  >So did he get a good deal or was he duped?? The swap was free BTW but
should >   >he get his PCM back?

> > TIA
> > cheers,
> >        Len
Paul McIntosh - 24 Jun 2004 23:44 GMT
Wow!  What a ripoff!  Who was this "Hobby shop"?

--
Paul McIntosh
http://www.rc-bearings.com
> Your local hobby shop stuck it to you, regardless of which is "better".
> They probably took your R138DF receiver worth $ 119.99 and gave you an
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > > cheers,
> > >        Len
Ron van Sommeren - 25 Jun 2004 09:33 GMT
Goedendag Len ;-)

| ... Apologies, I wasn't trying to start an argument! My son has just
| built a P51 Mustang and took it to the local shop for checking ...
Just to be on the safe side, I assume/hope the Mustang is not your son's first
model? (Cause you're asking here on his behalf)

Met vriendelijke groet ;-) Ron van Sommeren
near Nijmegen, the Netherlands
Robert A. Plourde Jr. - 25 Jun 2004 21:28 GMT
There is surely a price difference between the PCM and PPM receivers.  He
should get the difference in cash.

> >Do a search using those terms on www.rcgroups.com and you'll get a ton of
> >opinions. Everything that can be said about the subject HAS been said about
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> cheers,
>        Len
Bill Fulmer - 24 Jun 2004 18:00 GMT
Len,

This will open a big can of worms, similar to the famed "downwind turn
theory".....

After a ho' buncha years in the sport, my opinion is there ain't a whole
lotta difference.

Both are FM transmission and subject to the same types of interference.  PCM
has a failsafe position you may assign to servos, but UNLESS the
interference disabling the receptionsubsides in time, the best PCM will do
over PPM is give you a few more seconds to get the broom out......

Cheers,

Bill
> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len
Len Cuff - 24 Jun 2004 18:15 GMT
>Len,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>> cheers,
>>        Len

Thanks for the advice. Methinks he'll be taking it back for a re-swap!
The problem is that he's going to fit a HAL 2100 unit and therefore
needs a failsafe on the throttle (at least!) and if he keeps the PPM
then he's going to have to buy one!!

cheers,
      Len
MJC - 24 Jun 2004 21:03 GMT
   Don't overlook the fact that the new generation of PPM receivers are now
employing FailSafe too.
   There is now no longer any advantage of one mode over another other than
that the PPM receivers are less expensive while offering the same
performance.

MJC

> >> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> cheers,
>        Len
Six_O'Clock_High - 24 Jun 2004 19:50 GMT
> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len

That is sort of like asking "Is you a Found On The Roadside Dead" man or
Chevy dude?  They both have their place and both have good and bad things
that can be said about them.  You pay your money, take your chances.

The PCM stuff is somewhat more expensive and SOME claim not really good on
gasoline powered birds.  As others have suggested, do some reading.
Brad Lorance - 24 Jun 2004 20:51 GMT
> Can someone settle a disagreement please?

I doubt it........not here.

>Which is better, PPM or PCM?

yep, here we go again.   And you will not receive an answer that will help
you.  I promise.
K - 24 Jun 2004 22:56 GMT
>Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?

How long is that proverbial piece of string? You need to understand
the pros and cons of both to decide which is best suited to your
particular purpose.

As for meaningful answers. Unless you're trolling you'll largely
receive the same sort of uselessly emotive answers one does when
asking "Which is better":
(a) 4 stroke or 2 stroke?;
(b) castor or synthetic?;
(c) mode 1 or mode 2?;

:)
The Natural Philosopher - 25 Jun 2004 01:54 GMT
>>Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> :)
(d) a an F16 or a bicycle?

(answer a bicycle, becasue you can strap it to the back of your SUV). :-)
Fubar of The HillPeople - 25 Jun 2004 01:11 GMT
RPM.

Signature

Dan
AMA605992
KE6ERB
http://www.fubar1.net
"I've heard the screams of the vegetables..."
Take out the "trash" to reply

> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len
The Natural Philosopher - 25 Jun 2004 01:52 GMT
> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len

Neither. Both can me made to work well, and both can be implmented in a
shoddy way.

Which is better - V8 pushrod or turbo charged 4 cylinder with overhead cam?
Prop Flipper - 25 Jun 2004 16:05 GMT
Last summer I mounted a digital camera on my LT-40 with Hitec PPM and took
to the air.  After flying about 500 feet  from the strip I gave it left
stick to bring it back but the plane took 30 seconds to complete its 180
i.e. I had to hold full left stick for 30 seconds to make the turn.  As it
turned out the camera was generating noise on the receiver's power line and
the control surfaces where flapping like a galloping ghost system as soon as
the ship put a few hundred feet between it and the transmitter.  Just like a
galloping ghost system the flapping control surfaces averaged their flap in
one direction or the other depending on stick position.  This allowed me to
get the ship back to the strip safely (and fix the camera problem) but I
wonder if it was a PCM system would the controls have locked out and cause
my ship to sail off to uncharted waters?

Prop Flipper
> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len
Courseyauto - 25 Jun 2004 16:36 GMT
> Can someone settle a disagreement please? Which is better, PPM or PCM?
>
> cheers,
>        Len

PCM
C W - 25 Jun 2004 17:56 GMT
But does PCM jsut hide the problems ????

As for fly aways -  depends what you set the failsafe mode to do -
full down elevator probably prevents fly-aways :-)

PCM certainly did my heli a mischief when it locked out and
drifted the heli into the ground on idle throttle.

I use PPM dual conversion ......

CW

>Last summer I mounted a digital camera on my LT-40 with Hitec PPM and took
>to the air.  After flying about 500 feet  from the strip I gave it left
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>> cheers,
>>        Len
Technical - 25 Jun 2004 18:07 GMT
Hmmm!!

Dare I ask the question of experience of the Pilot..

P51 Mustang & HAL2100 in same sentence!.

Okay, I know it can be done but I gathered that HALs were really only
for Trainer Aircraft.

Maybe I'm wrong!!

Technical

>But does PCM jsut hide the problems ????
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>>> cheers,
>>>        Len

Regards

Technical
Len Cuff - 26 Jun 2004 23:21 GMT
>Hmmm!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
>Technical

Ok bit of a cheat really! He's just starting again after about a year
out of it. He was adamant that he wanted a P51 and I managed to get
hold of a cheap 2nd hand HAL. As it can be swutched on/off during
flight it'll only be used if he gets into real trouble! Once he's OK
we'll remove it but I don't want to total around £400 for the sake of
not having it as backup.

Looking at the info on the HAL, it can be used on almost any aircraft.

cheers,
      Len
 
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