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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / August 2004AMA Survey
The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/MembersOnly/Model%20Aviation%20rpt.PD F -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD That was an interesting read. Thanks Red! Apperently, most people (-/+ 3.8% with 95% confidence) feel as I do. Model Aviation is a worthwhile publication. Wiz > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > site. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > AMA 951 Dist. V > Leader Member/CD I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. Gary > That was an interesting read. Thanks Red! > Apperently, most people (-/+ 3.8% with 95% confidence) feel as I do. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > > site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/MembersOnly/Model%20Aviation%20rpt.PD > > F > > > > -- > > Red Scholefield > > AMA 951 Dist. V > > Leader Member/CD > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. > > Gary Really? How about a little informal survey right here? I'm an AMA member and I like getting the magaine. Anyone else for or against? Jim Beck I was/will be again an AMA member and I always enjoyed the magazine. No other magazine covered model aviation in such variety. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jim Beck I like it. mk > > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jim Beck AMA230068 here and I read Model Aviation cover to cover every month. As you could infer from my AMA number, I am not exactly a newbie in the hobby, but I usually learn at least something new that's applicable to me each month. Some examples of the recent nuggets include the detailed engine / prop info in the last two issues as well as the information on putting chokes in to eliminate RX noise that was creeping in via the BEC on my Zagi's speed controller. The recent helicopter review also opened my eyes as to how much simpler those things have become over the years - tempting... Anyway, as far as I am concerned - keep up the good work!! That "rag" puts a smile on my face every time it shows up :) >> I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine >> is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jim Beck The last time the AMA offered membership without the magazine so few signed up not to get it that it wasn't worth the trouble. Of course that was several years back when the majority of the membership could read. :-) We have come a long way since then. Now we have people asking for plans to build a field box or a work bench. I'll still take the magazine and enjoy it. -- Red S. AMA951 "I speak the truth, not so much as I would, but as much as I dare; and I dare a little more as I grow older." Montaigne > AMA230068 here and I read Model Aviation cover to cover every month. > As you could infer from my AMA number, I am not exactly a newbie in [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > Jim Beck I already stated that I like the magazine above, but I'll go on record here in this little poll to say I'm for the magazine. Wiz >>I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine >>is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jim Beck I like the magazine, not as well as RC Report but better than the other "catalogues" RCM, MAN, Fly RC. > I already stated that I like the magazine above, but I'll go on record > here in this little poll to say I'm for the magazine. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> Jim Beck  SignatureMike Gordon AMA 320990 Remember RC Pylon Racing, the ultimate thrill, when Sex and Drugs just ain't enough. > > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jim Beck I'm a member (34 years) and I read it cover-to-cover. I enjoy reading about facets of modeling that I don't do, personally, but would enjoy watching. John Agnew > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. You're going to pay one way or another. The AMA has to publish a newsletter and distribute it to all its members. It's Federal law. So, you either get a 100+ page glossy magazine that's largely funded by advertising, or a 42-page copier-paper newsletter that's completely funded by the membership. I know our club can't publish a 6-issue, 6-page newsletter and mail it for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... I don't read 100% of the magazine, but I do enjoy the articles. I vote to keep the magazine Don Hatten AMA #SOARDOG (AMA member off and on for 35 years) Mathew I agree with your comments, except the part about MA being paid for by advertising. The fact of the matter is that advertising pays next to nothing to offset the cost of MA. If you look at the most recent financial statement, page 16, you will find the advertising costs are $771,740. If you look at page 3, you will find MA's income from advertising is $851,032 for a net income of $79,292. This is an area that deserves looking into by the AMA. On that same page 3 we find the total direct costs of MA are $1,900,641.The cost of MA is almost exclusively subsidized by the membership. Still... at only $6-$7 a year per member it's a bargain. > > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... Advertising rates are based on the number of people who subscribe (or are forced to subscribe) to a magazine. If the AMA offered the choice of MA magazine or not with a membership, and half declined the magazine, what would happen to the advertising rates the AMA could charge? In these days of "instant news", most all magazine sales are declining due to the "lead time" delay needed for glossy print publications to get to the reader. Three or more months is a long time to wait for news when it's available on the internet or TV instantly. Happy Flying, Mike > Mathew > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... Unless I take my laptop into the bathroom with me, I can't read an online magazine while doing my business. And the bathroom isn't big enough for a TV. I know, "TMI= Too Much Information"...but I don't believe I'm the only one who reads while on the can. Don > In these days of "instant news", most all magazine sales are declining due > to the "lead time" delay needed for glossy print publications to get to the [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > > > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... Don, I agree. But don't you wish those MA pages were a lot softer? <G> Happy Flying, Mike > Unless I take my laptop into the bathroom with me, I can't read an online > magazine while doing my business. And the bathroom isn't big enough for a [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > > > > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... Oh, of course! Imagine being able to flush every magazine you get instead of throwing them in the trash. I think you're on to something, Mike. Don > Don, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mike Don, I'm with you. Lets lobby for a fully biodegradable version. MA has it's place of honor around here on the fireplace mantle. The kids just love those pretty rainbow colors in the flames. <G> Happy Flying Mike > Oh, of course! Imagine being able to flush every magazine you get instead > of throwing them in the trash. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > > Mike "A LOT SOFTER?" I love it, I love it! Best comment I heard so far. JIB > Don, > [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > >>>>>of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... In the case of MA, this is not true. MA has over double the circulation of any other model mag, yet the rates are the same or less than all the others. > Advertising rates are based on the number of people who subscribe (or are > forced to subscribe) to a magazine. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > > > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... Didn't I hear somewhere that MA charges half of what others charge for adverts? Or was it the other way around? > Mathew > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... MA, MAN and RCM were all fairly similar in proces per look. The real value is in RC Report. Good prices and much more sophisticated readers. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Didn't I hear somewhere that MA charges half of what others charge for > adverts? Or was it the other way around? [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > for $7 per member per year, yet the AMA manages to send you 12 issues > > > of a 100+ page glossy magazine for the same amount... > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. > > Gary So far not a single negative, and from this group that's something ;) Quite an elite groups of modelers you hang out with. Jim I like the Mag very much! I do NOT want to lose it! I know of no fellow modeler who thinks it's a rag! RCM has become a catalog and not much else. AMA Mag at least gives us some 'meat'. > > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jim > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. > > Gary Gary, Still not a single "the magazine is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it" response. How do you explain such a discrepancy between what you stated and what we have seen? Jim | > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine | > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. | | Still not a single "the magazine is a rag and the AMA should stop | forcing me to pay for it" response. How do you explain such a | discrepancy between what you stated and what we have seen? I agree with you here, but I think once was enough. No point in rubbing his nose in it repeatedly. SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com To some its a six-pack, to me it's a Support Group! > | > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine > | > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No point in rubbing his nose in it repeatedly. I know, just giving him an update. Besides, it was a pretty strong statement on his part. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Jim | > | > I find that hard to believe. Most AMA members I know also think the magazine | > | > is a rag and the AMA should stop forcing me to pay for it. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | statement on his part. Remember, extraordinary claims require | extraordinary proof. Not on Usenet. On Usenet a little hand waving is usually sufficient, though the true trolls usually don't even get that far. Actually, I'd meant to send that via email. I noticed my mistake immediately, but it was too late, and while I did send out a cancel, most servers don't accept them anymore anyways. Oh well. SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com McMurphy fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a paper bag filled with vegetable soup. > Gary, > Still not a single "the magazine is a rag and the AMA should stop > forcing me to pay for it" response. How do you explain such a > discrepancy between what you stated and what we have seen? > > Jim That's easy. The AMA fan boys are a vocal minority and the majority of us don't give a sh.t. There are some of us that like the magazine. Over the years I have learend a lot from it. Even though I fly only RC, there have been a lot of little gems I gleaned from the other forums in that magazine. If you don't like the magazine, just say so and let it go. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > Gary, > > Still not a single "the magazine is a rag and the AMA should stop [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's easy. The AMA fan boys are a vocal minority and the majority of > us don't give a sh.t. > > Gary, > > Still not a single "the magazine is a rag and the AMA should stop [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's easy. The AMA fan boys are a vocal minority and the majority of > us don't give a sh.t. Don't you find that complaints are handed out more readily than compliments? Take your response for example. With the regular amount of AMA bashing that goes on around here wouldn't you expect those (members)that really felt the way Gary's friends do to speak up quite vocally? Also, the subject line CLEARLY says "AMA" if you don't give a sh.t don't read the thread. Jim > Don't you find that complaints are handed out more readily than > compliments? Take your response for example. With the regular amount [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jim Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish to and you can't do a damm thing about it. > > Don't you find that complaints are handed out more readily than > > compliments? Take your response for example. With the regular amount [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish > to and you can't do a damm thing about it. Apparently you care a LOT more than you indicated. I was giving advise not instructions. YOU were the one that stated you didn't give a sh.t and yet you go on and on about the subject. This is a public forum and you are welcome to read and comment on what you wish, but you look like a bit of a dumb a.s when you profess your indifference to a thread and yet can't stop your involvement in it. Jim >Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish >to and you can't do a damm thing about it. Your handle says it all. AND you ugly too. Texas Pete Off the topic of the Survey, here are some "MODEL AVIATION" items that may or may not interest you. Model Aviation has LOST almost a million dollars each year (in the audit reports) of 2002 and 2003. Outside subscription (non member) income in 2003 was some $11,000 less than '02. The advertising income increased by $48,000 yet the amount of in-mag advertising has increased by a significantly much larger % amount. The low cost of the advertising is evidenced in the significant amount of income tax reduction in 2003. >>>>Income Taxes - The Academy operates as a nonprofit organization and has received exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. The Academy is, however, subject to unrelated business income tax on magazine subscriptions and magazine advertising. The unrelated business income tax expense for the years ended December 31, 2003 and 2002 was $105 and $5,950, respectively.<<<< Now while tax reduction is great, if my taxes dropped such, then it would mean that my income also had dropped. That portion of the taxable income subject to taxes increased by about $36,000 yet tax went down, evidencing a significant change in rates, profits, and/or proportionment. This may well be a good innovative change HOWEVER: OTOH since the expenses of producing the advertising income of $851,000 + change was offset by advertising expenses of $771,740, then there isn't much profit left to pay tax on. Except for some $80,000+/-, the membership foots the entire "Model Aviation" loss of $1,100,000.00 after the 771,000 offset by ad. income. This is IMO simply for some number of people to have a fat-cat job where they can do as they please. (The EC sets no mandates for MA) Also take a look at the advertising costs which include a 15% commission for the agent over and above the administrative costs. Kind of a fat deal. Easily, Sell lots of cheap advtising, get a healthy commission, have no expense and set back with a case of cold ones. In my last year's research for advertising rates, AMA ad. rates were well below the nearest competitor, RCR. If I were AMA President I know that little item would get CHANGED. How about YOU, Dave? How about you. Oberdieck? WHY NOT YOU Dave BROWN? Also >>>The Academy of Model Aeronautics, Inc. (the "Academy" was incorporated in 1966 under the laws of the District of Columbia. The Academy's primary objective is to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation.<<<<< (Official statement in paid auditor's report) Therefore I think that the EC should mandate that Model Aviation, as an IRSC defined unrelated business entity should be separately funded, separately accounted, and required to live on its own merit. For example, an initial WAG would be that: (1)AMA provide $5 per open member to the entity of MA along with the minimum requirements of MA to fulfill the requirements of the stated objective. (2) All costs are borne by the entity MA. (3) MA would be required to return 5% of gross income to AMA, plus all net profit. (4) Bonus plans would apply to the employees for all net profits returned. No profit = no bonus, Loss = new managers. (5) Take a long look at in-house advertising as done by all the other mags that HAVE to make a profit. IMO the mag has no limits for what it can do as long as the AMA EC gives free rein and expects nothing in return. VOTE in OCT. Vote for change. It's gotta' be DM, not DB and leave the BO to itself. HC AMA 539 HC Your analysis sounds good, lacking any input or comments from DB on the subject. DB can't be as successful as he seems to be with Dave Brown Products and not have developed some business savvy along the way. One has to question how much of it he has applied to the management of AMA "business". If he has, then surely there is some clarification due to the membership on where your analysis is flawed. -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V > Off the topic of the Survey, here are some "MODEL AVIATION" items that may or > may not interest you. [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > HC > AMA 539 Pete Kerezman <petekerez@aol.com> posted message ID<8b7ih09l2t23f23k27na0opcd0m35nk84g@4ax.com>on Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:10:46 -0500 >>Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish >>to and you can't do a damm thing about it. > > Your handle says it all. AND you ugly too. > >TexAss Pete That was unkind of you, TexAss Peet. Have you nothing to offer the group other than your lame insults? SignatureKEREZMAN, PETER xxx S Sixth St Kingsville, TX 78363-7025 (361) 592-xxxx > >Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish > >to and you can't do a damm thing about it. > > Your handle says it all. AND you ugly too. You got that nailed! I'm also old and grumpy. Dont like MA. Never did. Dont care about: Control Line Free Flight Soaring AMA Nats of any kind etc... I do like the pictures of other members' planes in the Focal Point section and the contest calendar in the back. Those are about the only redeeming qualities I can think of. I just like to fly and I'm an AMA member because I have to have the membership to fly at my club. The insurance coveraged stinks too. I dont care about the new facility or the museum in Muncie. I'll never have the opportunity to fly there or visit (I have to work for a living!) I dont like the fact that district VP's get a multi-thousand dollar travel budget that I have to help pay for. I would not buy the mag if I was not forced to. I guess it boils down to this: I dont like subsidising activities that I derive little or no benefit from. Dont I sound like an old fart? (at 40!!!!) Jim Signaturefenderjw Gee, Jim, don't you just HATE paying for all those roads you will never travel? Or all the National Parks you will never see? Or all the clean water you will never drink? Virtually everything you spend money on pays for things you will never use. But you STILL derive benefit from it even if it isn't direct. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > Dont like MA. Never did. Dont care about: > Control Line [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > fenderjw's Profile: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=19152 > View this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=259408 Great f***ing attitude. YOU are the reason Americans are held in such high regard all over the world. -- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com > > Don't you find that complaints are handed out more readily than > > compliments? Take your response for example. With the regular amount [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish > to and you can't do a damm thing about it. "Paul McIntosh" <paul@mcintoshcentral.com> posted message ID<41194311$0$534$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>on Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:50:36 +0100 >Great f***ing attitude. YOU are the reason Americans are held in such high >regard all over the world. That was unkind of you, Pall. Have you nothing to offer the group other than your lame insults? Signature"you use diversion and name calling."Paul McIntosh "twat!"Paul McIntosh "Gee, just like Shrub?"Paul McIntosh "You have your head so up a hole that you can't see the world in front of you."Paul McIntosh "...blind following of a group of crazy people."Paul McIntosh "No, YOU are a waste of time."Paul McIntosh "YOU linked to it you dipshit!"Paul McIntosh "It was the link to the ACTUAL report, dipshit."Paul McIntosh "You are a dope."Paul McIntosh "For the dense among you"Paul McIntosh "What the F**k is he saying"Paul McIntosh I would put this attitude in the same catagory as a cumputer hacker. Keyword is _anything_. > Maybe you're not an American. I am. I can read or post anything I wish > to and you can't do a damm thing about it. hmm, can't get the link to work. > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/MembersOnly/Model%20Aviation%20rpt.PD > F > > -- > Red Scholefield > AMA 951 Dist. V > Leader Member/CD There's nothing i like more than finding a love letter from "jeboba" <jeboba@hotmail.com>: >hmm, can't get the link to work. You will need adobe acrobat reader (Which is free for download). SignatureAlso available in white How's my posting? DOH! I know that! I have acrobat, etc. although the link in the ng was split, I entered it all and the site didn't work! K? > There's nothing i like more than finding a love letter from "jeboba" > <jeboba@hotmail.com>: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Also available in white > How's my posting? > DOH! I know that! I have acrobat, etc. although the link in the ng was > split, I entered it all and the site didn't work! K? Don't forget that trailing 'F'. It'll work. -- Dave Thompson The link was broken slightly; the "F" wa missing on the extension (i.e., it is a "PDF" file vice "PD"). So, when you click on it, it won't work. But the incomplete URL is in the address line so add the missing "F" and try again. Should work fine. Bruce > hmm, can't get the link to work. Don't forget to add that important $58 check so you have an AMA number. > The link was broken slightly; the "F" wa missing on the extension (i.e., it > is a "PDF" file vice "PD"). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > hmm, can't get the link to work. > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/MembersOnly/Model%20Aviation%20rpt.PD > F > > -- > Red Scholefield > AMA 951 Dist. V > Leader Member/CD Where might those of us without an AMA account get to have a squint at it out of interest? Steve It is posted to alt.binaries.radio-control mk > > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > > site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/MembersOnly/Model%20Aviation%20rpt.PD > > F > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Steve > > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > > site. > Where might those of us without an AMA account get to have a squint at it > out of interest? > > Steve Steve, you have to be an AMA member to get it from the web site, but since you are in the UK I'll send it to you back channel. steve@zord.co.uk I hope this works. Red S. AMA 951 > > > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > > > site. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > since you are in the UK I'll send it to you back channel. > steve@zord.co.uk I hope this works. It worked - thanks. Steve Now I will probably get banged for giving out sensitive AMA data to people not authorized to receive it. Be that as it may, how does the survey compare to your observations in the UK? -- Red Scholefield AMA 951 Dist. V Leader Member/CD . > > > Where might those of us without an AMA account get to have a squint at > it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve Trying to find our last survey Red - I'll ping you when I do. Steve > Now I will probably get banged for giving out sensitive AMA data to people > not authorized to receive it. Be that as it may, how does the survey [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > AMA 951 Dist. V > Leader Member/CD I enjoy the AMA magazine. Read it every month. My AMA number is 10042 -- mode file not found!! > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > site. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > AMA 951 Dist. V > Leader Member/CD Try this one. http://tinyurl.com/4ksp3 Happy Flying, Mike > file not found!! > > > The latest AMA Survey covering Model Aviation may be seen at the AMA web > > site. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/MembersOnly/Model%20Aviation%20rpt.PD > > F > > > > -- > > Red Scholefield > > AMA 951 Dist. V > > Leader Member/CD I like the mag. At least it attempts to cover all aspects of the hobby. I may not read everything but every now and again I find something in the free flight or control line section I can use in RC. I say keep it. AMA 325784. Jim W. I'm a 'reader' of mags.....and I look forward to the next issue o MA....there is always something new to learn (or NOT to learn as wa demo'ed in this past issue - the one with the tach's....) Jerr -- tailskid Been modeling since '49 - which makes me an Old Fart I enjoy MA magazine because it covers all aspects of model aviation. It has really improved within the last several years and hold its own against some of the other publications, though I do think that R/C Report is still the best of the lot. Joe L. |
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