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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / August 2004



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smallest r/c aircraft?  this has to be it!

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w.a. manning - 05 Aug 2004 14:10 GMT
i'm not current on the state of r/c aircraft technology for
miniaturization, but i saw this article recently in aviation
week...this has to be the smallest true r/c aircraft ever.  a 1/72
scale powered biplane w/ proportional 3-channel control.  the plane
weighs the same as a penny!

http://brown-snout.com/aviation/images/smallest_rc_aircraft.jpg
Dr1Driver - 05 Aug 2004 15:35 GMT
>..this has to be the smallest true r/c aircraft ever.

I'm speechless...WOW!  I'll say it again, backwards, WOW!
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
C.O.Jones - 05 Aug 2004 21:38 GMT
Certainly has to be close to the smallest if it isn't it!  Pretty neat!  Now
that would be a scale to fly indoor combat with!  Think DB would allow that?

I was doing some research on the UAV industry a couple of years ago.  I came
across an outfit that built a 1/1 scale R/C model of the Monarch Butterfly.
Wings flapped and all.  Can't recall the company or web site anymore but it
sure was interesting.

Chuck

> i'm not current on the state of r/c aircraft technology for
> miniaturization, but i saw this article recently in aviation
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://brown-snout.com/aviation/images/smallest_rc_aircraft.jpg
Lars Olsen - 06 Aug 2004 09:42 GMT
> i'm not current on the state of r/c aircraft technology for
> miniaturization, but i saw this article recently in aviation
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://brown-snout.com/aviation/images/smallest_rc_aircraft.jpg

Check this out, it's even smaller!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232157

/Lars
w.a. manning - 06 Aug 2004 15:29 GMT
looks similar in size and lighter.  lacks proportional control, if i
assume that "magnetic" acuation of the controls surfaces is a binary
sort of thing.

> Check this out, it's even smaller!
>
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232157
>
> /Lars
Hiran Chaudhuri - 06 Aug 2004 16:39 GMT
If I understood correctly, the first mentioned model also is a scale model, while this one is not.

Hiran

> looks similar in size and lighter.  lacks proportional control, if i
> assume that "magnetic" acuation of the controls surfaces is a binary
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> >
> > /Lars
M-M - 07 Aug 2004 01:58 GMT
Can someone please explain how these are controlled by radio?  Is there
a  receiver?

thx,  m-m
Lars Olsen - 07 Aug 2004 09:50 GMT
I believe that these ultralight models use IR instead of radio, as the radio
reciever alone would way a gram or two

> Can someone please explain how these are controlled by radio?  Is there
> a  receiver?
>
> thx,  m-m
M-M - 07 Aug 2004 15:53 GMT
Then they are not really RC

m-m

> I believe that these ultralight models use IR instead of radio, as the radio
> reciever alone would way a gram or two
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >
> > thx,  m-m
Lars Olsen - 07 Aug 2004 16:10 GMT
That depends... RC = Radio Control, or RC = Remote Control? ;-)

Anyhow, it's amazing that anyone can build a powered and controllable
airplane that small...

/Lars

> Then they are not really RC
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > >
> > > thx,  m-m
M-M - 07 Aug 2004 22:59 GMT
> That depends... RC = Radio Control, or RC = Remote Control? ;-)
>
> Anyhow, it's amazing that anyone can build a powered and controllable
> airplane that small..

Right. I will not argue the semantics. But I would like to know how you
can remotely control this airplane whether it be IR or radio signals.

IR like a TV remote? Makes some kind of magnet move?

m.
KGB - 08 Aug 2004 09:09 GMT
>> That depends... RC = Radio Control, or RC = Remote Control? ;-)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>IR like a TV remote? Makes some kind of magnet move?

Hi

This idea is not new.  I can remember reading about something similar
here in the UK about 10 years ago - possibly a lot more (RCM&E
perhaps).  Whether it was merely theoretical at that time or had
actually been done I can't remember, but this plane sounds identical
as far as the idea is concerned.

From memory I seem to recall that the wire acting as the "servo" was a
specific length "tuned" to the radio frequency.  One end was fixed and
the other connected to the control surface. Transmitting a signal
heated up the wire, which expanded and moved the control surface.

I seem to think that it didn't actually need a receiver - just wire of
the correct tuned length; presumably for 4 function all you would need
is 4 different length pieces of wire, no batteries, no Rx, nothing!!!!

Perhaps somebody else can drag out the article or can remember more
details - we moved house a few years ago and had a ruthless clear out,
including my older RC magazines.

Regards
KGB
Lars Olsen - 08 Aug 2004 17:01 GMT
I don't know all the technical details, as I only use radio control in my
models. But from what I have read, there is a Infrared receiver on the plane
(like in a TV) and some kind of powerful Infrared transmitter attached to
the normal two stick radio transmitter, using the trainer cable.

The IR receiver then controls the motor and magnetic actuators with
"regular" electronics (much smaller than normal ofcourse, as the currents
are much smaller).
The magnetic actuators is, simply put, a double wound coil with a small
permanent magnet suspended inside. When a current flows in the coil, the
magnet turns based on the power and polarity of the current. A rod is then
attached to the magnet, and this is then attached to the rudder. The power
of a magnetic actuator is _much_ less than the power of a regular servo, but
enough to move the rudders of these ultraligth models.

/Lars

> > That depends... RC = Radio Control, or RC = Remote Control? ;-)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> m.
DejaVU - 10 Aug 2004 09:17 GMT
M-M <nospam@ny.more> scribed in <nospam
-D9E2C4.17592907082004@newnews.netaxs.com>:

>IR like a TV remote? Makes some kind of magnet move?
>
>m.

go and read the flipping thing mate.  it SAYS it uses muscle wire for
control.  muscle wire is an alloy that changes it's size dramatically
when heated.  repeatably.  you can heat it by putting enough current
through it.   that is what they are doing.  2 Hz control rate.  good
thing the plane is stable (-:

swarf, steam and wind

--
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  ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail >  - - - - - - -> X
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M-M - 11 Aug 2004 02:26 GMT
> it uses muscle wire for
> control.  muscle wire is an alloy that changes it's size dramatically
> when heated.  repeatably.  you can heat it by putting enough current
> through it.   that is what they are doing.  2 Hz control rate.

Thank you for explaining that. But what is the mechanism to control the
current in the wire from the ground?

m-m
DejaVU - 11 Aug 2004 16:31 GMT
M-M <nospam@ny.more> scribed in <nospam
-3295C9.21270610082004@newnews.netaxs.com>:

>> it uses muscle wire for
>
>Thank you for explaining that. But what is the mechanism to
>control the current in the wire from the ground?

the given page image does not state the nature of the transmission.
however, others have surmised it is infrared as radio would be too
heavy

swarf, steam and wind

--
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http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html                   \ /
  ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail >  - - - - - - -> X
If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \
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C.O.Jones - 07 Aug 2004 20:02 GMT
That depends on what one considers to be a radio!  Isn't IR in fact part of
the frequency spectrum?

> Then they are not really RC
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > >
> > > thx,  m-m
Hiran Chaudhuri - 08 Aug 2004 22:24 GMT
Does RC stand for 'radio controlled' or 'remote controlled'?
In the latter, an infrared remote control is a remote control as well.

Hiran

> Then they are not really RC
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > >
> > > thx,  m-m
Paul McIntosh - 08 Aug 2004 22:52 GMT
The problem with definitions is that they don't always mean what you think.
Many people look at RC (aircraft type) as Remote Control.  The little toys
with the cable running to the controller is also known as remote control.
RC aircraft are almost universally controlled by redio waves.

--
Paul McIntosh
http://www.rc-bearings.com
Does RC stand for 'radio controlled' or 'remote controlled'?
In the latter, an infrared remote control is a remote control as well.

Hiran

"M-M" <nospam@ny.more> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:nospam-7CD513.10540407082004@newnews.netaxs.com...
> Then they are not really RC
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > >
> > > thx,  m-m
Lars Olsen - 07 Aug 2004 09:49 GMT
The magnetic actuators ARE proportional actually

> looks similar in size and lighter.  lacks proportional control, if i
> assume that "magnetic" acuation of the controls surfaces is a binary
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> >
> > /Lars
Ash Wyllie - 06 Aug 2004 17:38 GMT
w.a. manning opined

>i'm not current on the state of r/c aircraft technology for
>miniaturization, but i saw this article recently in aviation
>week...this has to be the smallest true r/c aircraft ever.  a 1/72
>scale powered biplane w/ proportional 3-channel control.  the plane
>weighs the same as a penny!

>http://brown-snout.com/aviation/images/smallest_rc_aircraft.jpg

The actuators are very interesting. Using memory alloy wire opens up all sorts
of possibilties.

                        -ash
                        Cthulhu for President!
                        Why vote for a lesser evil?
Lyman Slack - 07 Aug 2004 13:28 GMT
Can't quite beat the size --

       But the University of Florida won the Micro Aerospace Vehicle this
past Spring with a 4.75" (max dimension in any direction). The model has to
be capable of flying out to a target more than a quarter mile away and
sending back a clear TV photo of a target on the ground. Yup, this 4.75"
model is E-powered, has servos, and a TV camera and transmitter. If
interested, send me a note and I'll send some photos.

Cheers --  \__________Lyman Slack_________/
                 \______AMA6430 IMAA1564___/
                   \____Flying Gators R/C______/
                     \__Gainesville FL _________/
  Visit my Web Site at: http://www.LymanSlack.com

> i'm not current on the state of r/c aircraft technology for
> miniaturization, but i saw this article recently in aviation
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://brown-snout.com/aviation/images/smallest_rc_aircraft.jpg
 
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