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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / December 2004dog fighting
It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? Probably gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart for RC fliers? Are you asking if a bunch of oversized children ever thought of smashing their flying toys together? I seriously doubt it. ;) The slope gliders have a form they call combat where you try and knock the other gliders out of the sky. There is also a form for smaller planes where they have streamers that the opponents try and remove, ala flag football, though sometimes they collide as well. All it takes is more than one willing combatant and an agreeable set of rules, one of which is that the parciticipants should expect their plane to be demolished sooner or later as most forms of rc combat involve close interaction with the planes. You could probably do a laser tag thing too, but stay away from actual projectiles. Yes, paintballs count as projectiles. > It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your > opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? > Probably gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart > for RC fliers? >Are you asking if a bunch of oversized children ever thought of smashing >their flying toys together? I seriously doubt it. ;) You don't get around much, do you? http://www.racores.com/current_products.html#Gremlins /daytripper (first combat meet: 3 head-ons and a cloud of foam fragments ;-) I have one of these kits stashed in the shop. Havent built it due to lack of somebody else (willing!) to be bashed into.  SignatureDan AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables..." Take out the "trash" to reply > >>Are you asking if a bunch of oversized children ever thought of smashing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > /daytripper (first combat meet: 3 head-ons and a cloud of foam fragments > ;-) ... | The slope gliders have a form they call combat where you try and knock the | other gliders out of the sky ... | All it takes is more than one willing combatant and an agreeable set of | rules, one of which is that the parciticipants should expect their plane to | be demolished sooner or later as most forms of rc combat involve close | interaction with the planes. Slope combat isn't really about `knocking the other guy out of the sky'. What usually happens is that two planes bump into each other and then they race to complete a loop or a roll. The first one to get that done wins, which usually means that the guy with the most speed and/or is going in the best direction after the hit wins. However, ever once in a while you get a chance to smack somebody else hard, when they don't have enough speed or altitude to recover, and their plane goes down. It's rare, but great fun when it happens. Almost never, no matter how hard the planes hit, does a plane get demolished, because it's usually done with the foamie flying wings. Even the hardest hit can usually be repaired with tape. Sometimes you strip a servo if you didn't use a metal gear version (and apparantly even the metal gear ones have a nylon gear that can be stripped, but saves the rest of the servo.) Sometimes you'll knock off a wing tip (which I think is generally worth points too) but the plane usually keeps flying. (Yes, people do bring crunchies (non-foam planes -- fragile!) out to the slope, and fly with the foamies. The foamy pilots usually do try to not hit the crunchies, but accidents do happen ...) One thing that having lots of people flying on a crowded slope teaches you is just how _hard_ it is to hit somebody's plane in the air. Even when you're trying. But it's fun! SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzy.com "Never appeal to a man's better nature. He may not have one. Invoking his self interest give you more leverage." --Robert Heinlein > ... One thing that having lots of people flying on a crowded slope teaches >you is just how _hard_ it is to hit somebody's plane in the air. Even >when you're trying. But it's fun! I'm sure you're right. But twice in my life I've said, after both ribbons were cut, "Let's just fly at each other and skip the ribbons." Both times we mid-aired shortly afterward. I've stopped inviting people to fly at my planes. :o( Marty Cant figure out how you can do that, unless the control lines are of unequal length. Also cutting steel wire is not easy with a wood or plastic prop. Way back when I had a go at control line (50 years ago) dog fights were all the rage - but they were about cutting a streamer that each plane had attached to its tail David > It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your > opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? > Probably gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart > for RC fliers? > Cant figure out how you can do that, unless the control lines are of > unequal length. Also cutting steel wire is not easy with a wood or plastic > prop. < I guess you could reach around to your opponents lines with a sneakily concealed pair of snips and ....... twing......twang....... muttley-esque hehehe Steve >It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut >your opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try >it? Probably gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a >counterpart for RC fliers? http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Products/Detail.aspx?ProductID=HBZ2500 "X-Port for exciting optional plug-ins like the Sonic Combat Module" I guess that is non-contact stuff, apparently it temporarily turns off your opponents engines. I have not flown anything yet, so I really have little idea what that is about, I just recall that from doing a little research. It doesn't take an abundance of grey cells to envision the disaster that could occur if a U control line were cut. Are you guys for real??? In my neck of the woods, "combat" RC flying is very popular and does employ a trailing streamer. Small WW2 aircraft (46" wingspans) predominate and losses often occur. >>It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut >>your opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > really have little idea what that is about, I just recall that from > doing a little research. > It doesn't take an abundance of grey cells to envision the > disaster that could occur if a U control line were cut. > Are you guys for real??? In my neck of the woods, "combat" > RC flying is very popular and does employ a trailing > streamer. Small WW2 aircraft (46" wingspans) predominate > and losses often occur. <fix toppost> Uh WHAT disaster? The destruction of yet another cookie cutter boomtailed/foam winged combat plane? Yep some people bring a whole quiver of planes to a meet. 4-6 isn't uncommon. RC combat is even MORE UNSAFE...I would suggest that strathboy go back to bed he might get hurt walking. Strathboy C/L combat has ONLY been going on since the first two guys flew two different models at the same time in the same circle...no deaths from it that I ever heard of. You haven't flown until you did it in a circle...<sigh> I remember when the cheap hot combat setup was the Combat Kitten 2pack and a Cox Golden Bee with a TeeDee jug/piston swapped on for a little more power...some white Topflight props(almost unbreakable...but I have) and yes I remember when Moneykote made that kind of flying cheap because you could fix a hole with either tape or scrap moneykote and a Zippo. Simply put safety is an illusion my boy, just an illusion. AAMOF I STILL own my first set of motors, even the ones we blew up. SignatureNefarious Necrologist 42nd Degree Some people ride, some just like to show off their butt jewelry once in a while. Dum vivimus, vivamus <:(3 )3~ <:(3 )3~ <:(3 )~ <:(3 )~ Uh, the plane flying out of control, and into a pilot or spectator. That kind of disaster. Yes, the lines could break of their own volition, and any number of other circumstances could occurr that would cause the plane to go out of control. However, such accidents are far less likely to happen if you aren't intentionally trying to destroy the very means by which the plane is being held under control! Safety is an illusion, but we don't have to go looking for accidents, or give accidents any more reasons to happen than they already have. Since we're discussing the issue. Does anyone have an opinion about the method of dogfighting I mentioned? Maybe it's been expressed but I don't see it. How about the (advertised) type of dogfighting using an add-on module which can momentarily turn off your opponent's motors? Mostly curious. >Uh, the plane flying out of control, and into a pilot or spectator. >That kind of disaster. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Safety is an illusion, but we don't have to go looking for accidents, >or give accidents any more reasons to happen than they already have. > Since we're discussing the issue. Does anyone have an opinion about > the method of dogfighting I mentioned? Maybe it's been expressed but > I don't see it. > How about the (advertised) type of dogfighting using an add-on module > which can momentarily turn off your opponent's motors? > Mostly curious. Well, let me just say that I never have flown any RC Combat, nor hae I flown a Firebird. That aside, I looked at the link and I think it's a gtreat idea! Although, I think 10 seconds is a little long. It should be adjustable. FWIW, Kev Looks like fun but I have only flown one of those type of planes and it wasnt equiped for it. An add on module for Zagis or Sky Scooters or something would be cool and probably ok for the "The entire world should be padded" mindset group. When I think of the dirtclod wars, bb gun fights, homemade nailgun battles, lemon combats, an interesting keep you on your toes game we called "catch the spear", hatchet toss, and underground forts we considered fun as kids... Not one kid I ever knew got his eye shot out neither! Wouldnt trade those days for all the nerf sporks in the world. SignatureDan AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables..." Take out the "trash" to reply > Since we're discussing the issue. Does anyone have an opinion about > the method of dogfighting I mentioned? Maybe it's been expressed but [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > accidents, >>or give accidents any more reasons to happen than they already have. >Looks like fun but I have only flown one of those type of planes >and it wasnt equiped for it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >knew got his eye shot out neither! Wouldnt trade those days for all >the nerf sporks in the world. Then I grew up and realized we could have just as much fun while minimizing the risks. > "Fubar of The HillPeople" <fubar1@trashsocal.rr.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > while > minimizing the risks. Ghu another nanny attitude...can't stand that attitude from ANYONE. G'bye nanny... Well, minimum risk would be to sit in an underground steel vault, in the dark, padded walls, wearing a nerf suit, eating only soy, drinking distilled water, thinking only happy thoughts. Phooey! And I refuse to grow up anyway so neener neener neener. SignatureDan AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables..." Take out the "trash" to reply > >>Looks like fun but I have only flown one of those type of planes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Then I grew up and realized we could have just as much fun while > minimizing the risks. > It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your > opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? > Probably gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart > for RC fliers? Noah, there are AMA sanctioned RC combat events out there in which a long streamer is attached to the tail of each plane. The object is to cut as many streamers as you can without getting your own cut. It isn't full contact, although midairs do take their toll. Most of the combat planes are designed to take quite a bit of abuse and most fly on a .15 to .25 engine. RC Report has a monthly column on flying combat, and there are several vendors who sell combat kits. Morris > ... RC Report has a monthly column on flying combat ... RCR had a monthly column. I think it's been cancelled. Marty ><flydog9removetoreply@ntelos.net> wrote: > >> ... RC Report has a monthly column on flying combat ... > >RCR had a monthly column. I think it's been cancelled. Remember the Magnum PI episode where Higgins and his friend were staging aerial combat with radio controlled aircraft. Magnum was awoken by the noise, and he picked up a shotgun, stepped outside and went BOOM. I guess electric are much quieter, heheh. Noah, I flew controlline combat in the '50 with the cheapest plane I could build. Flew on a McCoy .09 and we had bunches of crashes. That was the point of the cheap plane which was light and could fly like hell with the .09. Loved it and never had a problem about rebuilding that 'skunk' plane after it dug a hole in the turf. Dave >It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your >opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? >Probably gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart >for RC fliers? Some of us fly RC combat. We tie streamers to the tails of the airplanes and try to cut the streamers. Sometimes we miss and hit each other's planes. It's a lot of fun, by and large. Marty >>It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your >>opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Marty I learned that if you aim for the streamer, you always miss. However, if you aim for the aircraft you only miss mostly. >I learned that if you aim for the streamer, you always miss. However, if >you aim for the aircraft you only miss mostly. I'm sure you're right. I've heard other good pilots say that. It gives me the shivers just thinking about using that as a strategy. I've had enough mid-airs in my career. I'll take the low road, thanks. :o) Marty >>I learned that if you aim for the streamer, you always miss. However, if >>you aim for the aircraft you only miss mostly. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Marty My friend, that is why I refuse to fly combat with anything larger than a .25. And then only with other stringently enforced safety rules. Too many mid-airs with running planes exiting the fray sans control. > ... Too many >mid-airs with running planes exiting the fray sans control. Darkest moment of my combat career: We had six or seven planes in the air. Two hit each other. Bagwell said, "Look at that!" So I looked. Then I couldn't find my plane. I didn't call for help. I didn't turn off the engine. I kept trying to find it by myself. It hit almost straight down out in the middle of the field--just by dumb luck. It could have gone anywhere and hit anybody. So I've got new rules of engagement for myself: 1. Never look far away from my own plane. 2. Turn off the engine immediately if it gets lost. 3. Yell for help. I haven't had to try #2 or #3 yet. #1 is working OK, so far. Marty >> ... Too many >>mid-airs with running planes exiting the fray sans control. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Marty Marty, My worst moment was when someone took out 1/2 of my right wing on a .25 sized three channel combat bird (QB-15 from Pilot). We were right over the runway and my plane made this turning dive for the pitts and a crowd of people. I could not stop the turn or the dive and the distance was too short to plant it early, but I managed to guide it over them and into the parking lot where it damaged an easily repariable (just cost $) car. I will never forget the sick feeling that it was going to drop out of control into the middle of a bunch of folks. THAT cured me of any desire for larger engines and insured that any further combat would be at wide open places where the spectator set back was a good LONG distance. A few years later folks started doing R/C combat with 40 sized and larger engines. Jim > ... THAT cured me of any desire for larger >engines ... I'm happy with .36-powered Gremlins (48" wing). That's plenty for having fun in our normal windy conditions. > ... and insured that any further combat would be at wide open places >where the spectator set back was a good LONG distance. Very wise. I'm so happy my plane crashed well out in mid-field, but it was pure, dumb, providential luck. > A few years later >folks started doing R/C combat with 40 sized and larger engines. I briefly had a .46-size "F-16". It was an interesting plane to play with, but not much fun for combat. The streamers wore away quickly and it required huge swooping turns. The Gremlins seem to me to be a lot more fun. Marty not sure how it is done elsewhere, but in so cal combat contests, points are only awarded for kills, which means the pilot knocks the other guy to the ground, while continuing to fly. the "victor" must complete a roll right away to earn the point. it is a whole lot of fun and will make anyone a better pilot. as far as safety, i have been hit twice in the side of the head by combat wings, once by my own airplane, and with the exception of an increased appetite for chocolate chip cookies, i don't think there were any long term effects. i like epp leading edge, and white foam for the body, and all my wings come from bob mellen at www.flyingfoam.com. build and bash em. > It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your > opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? Probably > gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart for RC > fliers? Not line cutting, but streamers attached to teh tail Done with RC too, or the modern equivalent - a beeper that goes off when someones transmitter is pointing at yur model (a small transmitter mounted in the plane that is) You can buy the kit from somewhere or other - combats systems. Yeah, its called Slope Combat. You use EPP slope planes, usually looking like WWII fighters and try to knock each other out of the sky. Great fun! I think the glow equivalent uses specialized planes with streamers. SignatureDan AMA605992 KE6ERB http://www.fubar1.net "I've heard the screams of the vegetables..." Take out the "trash" to reply > It used to be a practice among line controllers to dogfight (cut your > opponent's line). Is this still done? Any of you guys try it? Probably > gets pretty expensive when you loose :P Is there a counterpart for RC > fliers? >Yeah, its called Slope Combat. You use EPP slope planes, usually looking >like WWII fighters and try to knock each other out of the sky. >Great fun! Somebody was having indoor EPP combat with electrics, I think. They rented out a golf or tennis dome late on a Saturday night. Marty |
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