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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / November 2007More Info on World's Cheapest ARF
My Start 40 Evolution 2 Trainer arrived today from http://www.raidentech.com via FedEx Home Delivery. The actual manufacturer of the ARF doesn't appear to be Selective R/C as I'd originally suspected (http://www.selectiverc.com), although Selective R/C may be the U.S. importer and distributor for this ARF. The actual manufacturer appears to be Khiem Tin Ltd. DBA VHN Line, a Vietnamese corporation - http://www.vhnline.com The ARF came with an outer shipping box over the manufacturer's packing box for extra shipping protection. The internal packing was minimal, but my initial inspection showed that the plane arrived in perfect shape with no shipping damage. The overall strength of the airframe and quality of the covering is good. The included hardware looks quite servicable, even though it isn't what I'd consider "top quality." The instruction manual is a fairly clear and legible photo copy. The instructions themselves aren't comprehensive, but they seem easy enough to follow and anyone with any previous ARF assembly experience can probably follow along easily enough. I paid $38.95 for the airframe and another $8.33 for shipping and handling to get the ARF from Raidentech in California out to me in Nebraska. So far, I'd certainly have to say I've gotten more than my money's worth. A great deal of assembly required by other ARFs is already done. All of the control surfaces are already hinged and installed, no hinge gluing required. The engine mount is already attached to the firewall, as is the nose gear assembly (minus the wheel). While I doubt the packaging's claim that this ARF can be ready to fly in an hour, it does appear that it will be a very easy final assembly. I'll need to scrounge up a receiver, crystal, and battery, but other than that I can probably build up the ARF tonight and have it ready to fly soon. I'll post more after I get a chance to put it in the air. All in all though, if you want a basic trainer airframe for a bargain price, this does seem to be an awfully good deal so far. Raiden is continuing to run this as a "monthly" special for the time being, so feel free to roll the dice if you want a good, cheap ARF. Thanks for the information, Ed. Good luck with it. Good flying, desmobob > My Start 40 Evolution 2 Trainer arrived today from > http://www.raidentech.com via FedEx Home Delivery. The actual [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > continuing to run this as a "monthly" special for the time being, so feel > free to roll the dice if you want a good, cheap ARF. Those links didn't work for me....(except the Radintech) Jerr -- tailskid Been modeling since '49 - which makes me an Old Fart The Selective RC link worked for me when I double checked it just now. The VNH Line website is down right now, but the link I provided is correct. Just trying to provide some additional information about how these $38.95 ARFs are getting out to R/C pilots. > Those links didn't work for me....(except the Radintech) > > Jerry Just got this ARF today. This thing is built like a tank! I'll have i flying this weekend. Assuming it flies well I think this is a supe deal. Besides the trainer function this could be a good one desig contest flier for fun stuff like spot landings, limbo, etc. Heck it' practically disposable, perhaps some really lame combat or pylon racin would be fun. I'm getting ahead of myself. First I need to teach my son to fly -- flyboyanderso I've been slowly but surely putting mine together. I was surprised to see that the wing has almost no diehedral in it and it's semi-symmetrical. The plane should be fairly aerobatic when flying. > Just got this ARF today. This thing is built like a tank! I'll have it > flying this weekend. Assuming it flies well I think this is a super [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I'm getting ahead of myself. First I need to teach my son to fly. Ed Paasch Wrote: > The plane should be fairly aerobatic when flying. How about a "one roll 360 degree turn" with this plane ? Simple rolling turns are a breeze. With the unit set-up as described above, we can. CG is a bit aft o ours. You do need a bit of raw power to do it tho -- indoruwe Hmm.. I am sure glad a lot of other people now think this is not that bad o a deal for so little money. When I mentioned this plane a few months back, I sure got it from a lo of people for even having the nerve to mention this Viet Nam product. BTW, ours now is a tail dragger, engine rotated ccw until MAC exhaus is right under the fuse, top of fuse closed up above the engine, zer dihedral in the wings. End result: why spend so much if so little can do almost the same -- indoruwe > BTW, ours now is a tail dragger, I'm planning on doing the same thing with the same plane but I'm new to it. Anybody got any tips on the conversion? Looking at the inside of the fuse I was planning to just mount a block across the width of te fuse just behind the firewall and then drill it out. A couple blind nuts to hold the front gear on (thinking 10-24 since I have another plane already like this and the 1/4-20 were too big and ripped a chunk out of the bottom of the fuse when I hit a rock landing). For the tailwheel I figure I'll glue some lite ply to the bottom of the tail end of the fuse and snake a piece of piano wire up to the rudder for some steering. I am very, very open to suggestions though... Thanks, Steve You fellows were right aboutthe screws holding the nose gear in place. We had to put in longer ones. Also our plane, with an FP-40 OS engine takes close to 13 oz of lead to get it to balance. Anyone else haveing balance problems??? Frank Schwartz How did you make the wing with zero dihedral? did you make a new joiner or what? TIA >Hmm.. >I am sure glad a lot of other people now think this is not that bad of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >dihedral in the wings. >End result: why spend so much if so little can do almost the same ? jason w Wrote: > How did you make the wing with zero dihedral? did you make a new joine > or what? Shave off a bit of material from the provided joiner until you can la the wing halves flat on your building table. You get a "crack" on top but I filled it with epoxy mixed with sawdust. You could also us microballons. Steve Wrote: > the hold down bolts are mounted "outside the fuse" (easier to plac > correctly). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Steve Dubro makes this "Nylon Wing Mounting Kit" Catalogue number 256. Instead of mounting them inside the fuse, under the rear of the wing, mount them outside of the fuse. I do this before I remove the rods tha are used for the rubber bands. I clamp the wing on the fuse with a fe rubber bands (the ones that came with it :D ), then I run a 1/4 -2 bolt that I sharpened at the end from the bottom of the bracket up t the wing. This gives me an exact location where to drill the holes. In locating the position of the bolts brackets, I make sure that th head of the screws are flush with the top of the wing surface whe mounted. Put a small thin piece of lite ply underneath the bolt head (glue it on). Also you must make a doubler for the former that will hold the front o the wing down. Glue it inside the fuel tank compartment. HT -- indoruwe FS: Glad you "found" the "too short screws". We did at the first landing. Regarding weight addition. Ours has an OS 46 on it with a MAC pipe. The engine mounts were the long ones and so ours has it all the way u front. That is probably the difference here -- indoruwe Anyone have a good link to this product line? Jerr -- tailskid Been modeling since '49 - which makes me an Old Fart This pushed me over the edge and got me to order one, even though I hav far too many unbuilt planes: "Use coupon code "HOBBYLAND" at check out for 10% OFF on all R/ products at Raidentech.com 's already crazy low prices. Coupon expire on 11/28/05 or while it last. -- Solca Too late , ordered 2 already. :) mk > This pushed me over the edge and got me to order one, even though I have > far too many unbuilt planes: > > "Use coupon code "HOBBYLAND" at check out for 10% OFF on all R/C > products at Raidentech.com 's already crazy low prices. Coupon expires > on 11/28/05 or while it last." Thanks for providing the discount code. That pushed me over the edge. I just ordered one of their $38 trainers. I think I have found a home for my OS FL-70, at last. Ed Cregger > This pushed me over the edge and got me to order one, even though I have > far too many unbuilt planes: > > "Use coupon code "HOBBYLAND" at check out for 10% OFF on all R/C > products at Raidentech.com 's already crazy low prices. Coupon expires > on 11/28/05 or while it last." Solcat: They are in your neighbourhood, so pick one up personally (ask fo John) and save the shipping cost. Take a look at their Giles 202. Pretty neat bird. Just keep a straight face when you see their warehouse..... Will be back there soon before christmas to pick up some of thei goodies. IR Ed P: Looking at the size of the rudder, when you have it ready to fly, se how it performs when you make a rudder turn.... I am still amazed at how good this bugger flies and how much fun it i for so little money -- indoruwe Yeah but it's only $6 for shipping. And if I went I'd probably end u buying that 40 size P47. But I'm still learning how to land and stee a Magister on the ground -- Solca Solcat Wrote: > Yeah but it's only $6 for shipping. And if I went I'd probably end u > buying that 40 size P47. But I'm still learning how to land and stee > a Magister on the ground. Agreed... You'd probably spend that much on gas now :( And yes, you may end up with more than you wanted to get... :D I walked in to get one thing and walked out with four :o jason w Wrote: > Is this plane's wing held on with rubber bands or bolts?..the pic show > bolts, but it is not a really good picture. > Other than the nose wheel, are there any other areas that need to be > checked before flight? I found one area that may be a bit skinny on the "glue amount" end. Look into the area that is right underneath the wing mounting area o the fuse. One of ours had the formers not quite well glued on (in ou opinion). The wing is a "Rubber band hold on" type. You get four huge rubbe bands, that I used as building aids !! Otherwise it is all OK "as is" Do not use an Iron to get the wrinkles out. You smear the painted o decorations. Use a heat gun and a glove to smooth them out. If you want to make it "bolt down", then do it during the buildin stage. You can use the wings as a template to make the new cente section out of lite ply. Ours have zero dihedral, and the hold dow bolts are mounted "outside the fuse" (easier to place correctly). W also added a "peek window" above the fuel tank, so we can see when th fuel tank is fuel or how much fuel is left. We did a three line fue system. Robert Scott Wrote: > For $20 more, I bought a full-bodied ARF Ultimate... I hope it flie > well. It does -- indoruwe > Robert Scott Wrote: >> I bought a full-bodied ARF Ultimate... I hope it flies >> well. > It does. That's good news! Are you flying one, by any chance? And/or, have you also flown a SIG Ultimate Fun Fly? I noticed this Ultimate I just ordered from Raidentech, like the World Models Ultimate, has a very short fuse. (yuk yuk yuk) My SIG profile Ultimate had a 42" span and a 43.5" length. The Ultimate sold by Raidentech has a 43.5" span and a 39.8" length. That's a considerable difference in geometry, it would seem.... The World Models Ultimate lists a 42" span and a 39.5" length, so apparently the Raidentech Ultimate and the World Models Ultimate are not the same airplane after all. I sure loved the way the SIG UFF flew. I hope Raidentech's Ultimate is as enjoyable. Good flying, desmobob <<If you want to make it "bolt down", then do it during the building stage. You can use the wings as a template to make the new center section out of lite ply. Ours have zero dihedral, and the hold down bolts are mounted "outside the fuse" (easier to place correctly). >> Can someone give me more details on this? I haven't built mine yet but I'd like to go with a bolt down wing. Never heard of "outside the fuse" bolts though... Thanks, Steve I ordered one of the $38.00 trainer planes...the Fed-ex shipping tracker says the package is 1 lb. This seems really light, might be a mistake. Is this plane's wing held on with rubber bands or bolts?..the pic shows bolts, but it is not a really good picture. Other than the nose wheel, are there any other areas that need to be checked before flight? TIA jason >Solcat: >They are in your neighbourhood, so pick one up personally (ask for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I am still amazed at how good this bugger flies and how much fun it is >for so little money. >I ordered one of the $38.00 trainer planes...the Fed-ex shipping > tracker says the package is 1 lb. This seems really light, might be a > mistake. I think that's a glitch in their shipping software. I ordered from them before and my package was listed as 1 lb. No problems. I just ordered one of the $38.95 trainers, plus the .40-size Ultimate that looks exactly like the World Models bipe (same mfg.?) for $119.00. I've been wanting to build a SIG Ultimate Fun Fly profile bipe to replace one I crashed a while back. The SIG kit is $77 and two rolls of covering are another $22. For $20 more, I bought a full-bodied ARF Ultimate... I hope it flies well. Good flying, desmobob I got my cheap trainer yesterday....missing the fuel tank clunk and aleron rods, but I had extra parts in the garage. The box is extremely small that the plane comes in....and compared to my Nexstar, this plane is small...but just what I wanted for a tower hobbies .46 I had laying around. I added some CA glue to the inside joints and landing gear wood, and replaced the nose wheel screws at the firewall. The only mistake I made was trying to drill dowel holes...only to find out that 1/8" over from my hole was a hole already made...oops....little epoxy will fix it. The instructions were not worth the paper they were xeroxed on...showed more info on installing the power switch than the real assembly of the parts in the box. My wing had a straight wood joiner...put it in and I can't see any dihedral in the wing....good news. I also added some inside wheel collars to the landing gear to keep the wheels where I wanted, and I didn't use the cheap plastic black clevis'......they didn't want to stay shut. I did like the large fuel tank (really cheap tank), the full plywood sides on the fuse are nice, covering was really good. What are the two screws included that are about 1.5" long for ? >>I ordered one of the $38.00 trainer planes...the Fed-ex shipping >> tracker says the package is 1 lb. This seems really light, might be a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Good flying, >desmobob jason w Wrote: > What are the two screws included that are about 1.5" long for ? Never figured that out either, and my clunk was also missing. With s many extra parts laying around, I seldom notice what is missing -- indoruwe Jason w Your experience was exactly like my own down to the mysterious lon screws. But fortunately I found the dowel holes. I installed an ancient K&B .45 Sportster and flew it this past sunday The K&B was spewing fuel from the front bushing so it was impossible t get a good engine run. It was also very gusty which, couple with th surging engine, made for a very tense first flight. My impressions ar pretty straightforward; its a rugged trainer that plows through the ai with very tame control response. However, I won't be using this as a trainer for my son. I'm old schoo and I think that training students on an aileron equipped airplane i the wrong approach. I was attracted to this ARF because of the pric and wishful thinking. I learned on a 3 channel plane and it was s much easier. Over the years (not recently) I learned that the firs flights are more about perspective then skill. Its important to buil confidence and really develop the plane, pilot, surrounding perspective. I want a plane that when I push the stick left th airplane goes left; not rolls left. Bottonline:This is probably a good trainer with respect to th prevailing conventional wisdom; But, for me Its a good second plane I'm in the market for a 3 channel SIG Rascal or maybe I'll just buil another Esquire. At some point I'll replace the K&B with a Supertigre .40 ($50 at tower and this will be a fun aileron trainer -- flyboyanderso flyboyanderson Wrote: > I'm old school and I think that training students on an aileron equippe > airplane is the wrong approach. All depends on how an instructor teaches. I have seen "instructors" - - holding the Master Trannie with one hand while just looking at th plane. - just letting the student fly where ever. - not watching for weaknesses and then working on getting better. - not explaining why certain maneuvres have to be done a certain way. - never teaching coordinated turns. - never teaching scale like flying. - not giving "ground school" instructions, like safety, set-up, etc. nuff sed -- indoruwe the rudder on this plane looks too small, but I don't really use rudder in flight....I learned first on a firebird commander (2 ch), then a hobbizone piper cub (3 ch), then a nexstar. I now have several SPAD planes that I have built, an Aircore trainer (great trainer plane), and just finished a sukhoi....touchy in flight. I didn't really plan on any real purpose for this cheap plane...but I figured that it was worth a try. Anyone new to assembly might as well seek help on this one. Compared to the hobbico and Phoenix ARF's that I have put together, this one lacked good instructions....and some of the parts (clevis and wing dowels) were not good enough quality to fly. Along with a few missing parts, this plane needed someone with experience......but it was way more than I was expecting...and although I haven't flown the plane yet, I think it is well worth the $39 plus shipping.....I only feel bad for the person who got paid beans to glue and coat this thing. As for engines, I have really been impressed with SK engines. They are selling for around $50.00 and after a good breakin, they have been excellent. I have one on my aircore trainer and another on a low-wing SPAD that I built. Looks like they are not a little more expensive http://www.kangkeusa.com/ I haven't ran more than a gallon through each of mine, but they run consistant and are not hard to keep tuned. >flyboyanderson Wrote: >> I'm old school and I think that training students on an aileron equipped [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >nuff sed. I only feel bad for the person who got paid > beans to glue and coat this thing. That's what I do for fun! mk > flyboyanderson Wrote: >> I'm old school and I think that training students on an aileron equipped [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > nuff sed. There are good instructors and there are bad instructors. I don't see teaching someone to fly in a scale like manner as being advantageous. In fact, I think it is a waste of time and that it does not apply to model airplanes at all. Coordinated turns with most model planes is also a waste of time. The only reason that folks started out on three channel models many years ago was the expense of a four channel radio system. Yes, rudder should be learned, I agree, but not at the expense of ailerons. With that said, I still have a couple of REM models that I fly every few years. Old habits die hard. However, I do agree with the remainder of your points. Ed Cregger > Jason w > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > At some point I'll replace the K&B with a Supertigre .40 ($50 at tower) > and this will be a fun aileron trainer. A decade or so ago, I was at the flying field and watching a friend fly his Top Flite Elder. It was powered by a K&B .45 Sportster. The airplane ended up a little distance away, so I went out and carried it back for him. As I was walking, I kep hearing a chunk-chunk-chunk sound. I thought it was the wheels, so I moved the wheels a bit. Nope. It wasn't the wheels. Then I thought maybe the noise was coming from the clunk in the fuel tank. I shook the model a bit. Nope, not coming from the fuel tank. By the time I got back to the pits, I realized that the sound I was hearing was being created by the movement of the crankshaft within the crankcase while I was walking! Ray Hubshmitt had flown that early version K&B .45 Sporster so much that the crankcase had egged out around the crankshaft - and it still ran just fine. Unreal. IIRC, he did use fuel with a lot of castor oil in it, otherwise I don't think the engine would have had any fuel draw at all. It was quite a testimony to the basic design. I understand that the later versions do have a bushing in the crankcase. It might be worth the twenty or so dollars to upgrade to the new crankcase. Ed Cregger jason w Thanks for the input on the SK engines. I've been eyeing them fo awhile, but I just couldn't find any reviews or feedback on them. I se the SK .50 is now up to $60.00. Wish I took the plunge when they wer $50. You soonze, you lose. I don't want to invest anymore dough i glow, I'm trying to move to 'lectric and break the nitro habit -- flyboyanderso > jason w > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > $50. You soonze, you lose. I don't want to invest anymore dough in > glow, I'm trying to move to 'lectric and break the nitro habit. The scuttlebut that I see on the net is that the SK engines are really the new and improved Tiger Shark engines without the logo. The few reports I have seen from folks that actually bench ran the .50 was that it is a single flip starter and that the power is very good and the idle/transition is excellent. I have both the .50 and the .80, but haven't managed to get them bench ran or mounted on a model as yet. For what it is worth, which is very little, both engines "feel" very good when turning them over. Yes, you should have bought them when they were cheaper! <G> Ed Cregger > A great deal of assembly required by other ARFs is already done. All of the > control surfaces are already hinged and installed, no hinge gluing required. > The engine mount is already attached to the firewall, as is the nose gear > assembly (minus the wheel). While I doubt the packaging's claim that this > ARF can be ready to fly in an hour, it does appear that it will be a very > easy final assembly. I opened one of th tow I ordered from Raidentech today. It is a good deal for $40. I always pull on pre-hinged surfaces and the left aileron inner most hinge was broken. I noticed that the tourque rod was not glued in the ailreon. Lookling at teh other side this is the same way. You'd never know unless the aileron came off but I reccomend cutting the stock hinges and putting in your own and glueing the tourque rods. There is plenty of slop if you don't at least inject some glue in those rods. mk > I opened one of th tow I ordered from Raidentech today. It is a good deal > for $40. I always pull on pre-hinged surfaces and the left aileron inner [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > if you don't at least inject some glue in those rods. > mk Thanks for the tips. FedEx says mine should be here in another four days. If it looks good, I'll order one or two more for the stash shelf. :-) Good flying, desmobob Good News! I called Kangke and they honored the $49.95 price for the SK .50 engin advertised in the December issue of FlyRC. So for just under $10 dollars I got an ARF and a new engine. Kankge claims they are made i the same Factory as the SuperTigres and the quality is every bit a good. I love my Supertigre .45 so I'm optimistic. I just can't se buying and O.S LA plain bearing engine for more money. But then agai I'm the kind of guy who buys $40 ARFs. I should have the engine b Friday, hopefully I'll see how the combo performs over the weekend. Thanks Jason and Ed for the feedbac -- flyboyanderso The .50 engine is a little heavy....especially on this little $38 plane...you will probably want the battery behind the landing gear....mine balanced OK with the battery behind the tank, but with a .46. Also....that .50 engine will be a pain to break-in...mine squeaked when the piston was at the top....use a hair dryer to heat the head first...and don't use the remote needle if you get one...tuning problems will occur. Run a few tanks through the .50 and it will be a great engine...I have 2 and they are excellent. >Good News! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Thanks Jason and Ed for the feedback Got the SK .50 today and I'm very impressed with the quality of thi motor. Perhaps there should be a thread started "World's Cheapest AB engine". I'll break it in tomorrow and fly it (weather permitting) o Sunday. I'll let you know how it goes -- flyboyanderso I wonder if they just changed the name of their earlier Tiger Shark engines?  SignaturePaul McIntosh RC-Bearings.com "when steel just isn't enough" > > Got the SK .50 today and I'm very impressed with the quality of this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'll let you know how it goes! > I wonder if they just changed the name of their earlier Tiger Shark engines? I don't think so. Why? Because these will actually finish running out a tank of fuel without quitting or breaking something critical. Supposedly, TS has gotten their act together. I knew they could. <G> Ed Cregger Just found another cheap trainer ARF, Its a Polks Hobby Dorothy Wingspan is 72" and looks to be lightweight construction. It's on sal for 50 bucks. I had called Polks about there Tracker III radio an asked about the Dorothy (stupid name). They say its very much like Telemaster. I might give this one a try and sell the Evolution. www.polkshobby.co -- flyboyanderso Check out the shipping weight of Dorothy and Lucy! mk > Just found another cheap trainer ARF, Its a Polks Hobby Dorothy. > Wingspan is 72" and looks to be lightweight construction. It's on sale [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > www.polkshobby.com CHECK OUT THE WEIGHT FOR THE C-47!!! SignaturePaul McIntosh RC-Bearings.com "when steel just isn't enough" > Check out the shipping weight of Dorothy and Lucy! > mk [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> www.polkshobby.com http://216.86.38.243/mmPOLKS/Images/PLK10045.jpg I'm sure the hardware will be at least as good (probably much better) as the Start Evolution ARF from Raidentech. That is really one ugly looking plane, however. It looks like it's covered with red wax paper or something. Still, if it goes together easy and it flies well, that's what really counts. > Just found another cheap trainer ARF, Its a Polks Hobby Dorothy. > Wingspan is 72" and looks to be lightweight construction. It's on sale [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > www.polkshobby.com Lets hear some flight reports on the Start .40 Evolution II trainers. I've got one here going together, but wont have a chance to fly it until it warms up. What Engine / prop combos are you using in them too?? Jef -- KyFBCGu > Lets hear some flight reports on the Start .40 Evolution II trainers. > I've got one here going together, but wont have a chance to fly it > until it warms up. > > What Engine / prop combos are you using in them too?? Mine has a bolt-on wing conversion and is powered by a Magnum .52 four-stroke swinging a 12x6 APC prop. It's a heavy airplane. Haven't flown it yet.... waiting for Spring! Good flying, desmobob It might be nice enough later this week that I can finally get a chance to fly mine. I'll be running a Magnum XLS .52 two-stroke with an 11x6 APC prop. >> Lets hear some flight reports on the Start .40 Evolution II trainers. >> I've got one here going together, but wont have a chance to fly it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Good flying, > desmobob Weather permitting I'll be flying the Evolution again the week afte Christmas (vacation). I'll probably use the SK 50 I bought a couple o weeks ago. The first flight was about 6 weeks ago with an old K&B 45. The K&B wa hemorraging fuel from the front bearing and consequently the engin surged and ran terrible. It was also very windy and my old AM radio wa gliching. I was lucky to get it down in one piece. Hardly a fair test o the Evolution. I did notice it had a stong tendency to nose up o anything more than half throttle. It seemed to handle the wind wel which is probably due to its weight. I've trained a couple of people o Duraplanes and it seems to fly much better than that. so ... I got rid of the engine and radio and hopefully I'll see what this bir can do. I took it to our last club meeting and people where amazed a the price, several were interested enough to ask for the website. Th guy that works at the LHS wasn,t thrilled but his prices are actuall excellent (gets a lot of my money) so I really don't think he has muc to worry about. However .... I bought the Dorothy as well. I'm a sucker for light airplanes and thi one looks like a light weight. I might also use it to dabble in som aerial photo/video stuff. Depending on how it goes together (and th weather) I might fly it next week as well -- flyboyanderso Guys, The more I think about this start evolution II the more I think it's a .25 size plane. Just look at the WS and length. I'm considering a .25 for it but the only ones I have are a OS .25 FX currently in a plane, OS .25 FP, not sure it'll pull it and a combat wombat webra .25. I am going to us it for training so it doesn't have to have unlimited vert.! OH well, we will see. mk > Weather permitting I'll be flying the Evolution again the week after > Christmas (vacation). I'll probably use the SK 50 I bought a couple of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > aerial photo/video stuff. Depending on how it goes together (and the > weather) I might fly it next week as well. I think not. 25 for this Evolution is too small. It is similar to an Avistar, but heavier. Go for 46 at least and you'll be OK. HTH. > Guys, > The more I think about this start evolution II the more I think it's a .25 [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> aerial photo/video stuff. Depending on how it goes together (and the >> weather) I might fly it next week as well. Coincidentally, Sport Aviator (the AMA e-zine) has a write-up about the Dorothy II: http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=1&ID=115 Looks like you're not the only person interested in it! > Weather permitting I'll be flying the Evolution again the week after > Christmas (vacation). I'll probably use the SK 50 I bought a couple of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > aerial photo/video stuff. Depending on how it goes together (and the > weather) I might fly it next week as well. Eye Indo I have to agree with Eye Indo, I can't imagine this thing getting of the ground with a .25. If you want to make good use of the .25 then would look at the Phoenix models Sonic 25 High wing. Its 65 bucks a tower and omnimodels. http://www2.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/woi0001p?&I=PMMA0125&P=O I had the Sonic Low wing which I used to get back into RC over a yea ago, and I was very happy with it. I used an OS .25 LA. However ... The low wing is not a trainer, it goes where you point it. Stick wit the High wing. There aren't to many .25 trainer out there. In fac there are very few .25 models of any type out there. Eye Indo, I'll take up your challenge and invite the C/L guys to ou Fun Fly. I still have a Sterling beginners mustang I could breakout fo the occasion -- flyboyanderso You will not be sorry. As I stated before, the routine that "our" CL pilot has is awesome, since it is his compaction routine. I think it is a required routine. The best thing you can do is to announce his maneuvres beforehand, right before he does them, and then follow through. You have time to announce beforehand, because the compaction routines have a "pause" where the CL pilot flies at a constant distance above the ground (which BTW is not that high above ground !!) to give the judges time to get their bearings back and do the ratings. As always, demonstration flights are much better, if they have good commentators, who have done a bit research first, including the background of the pilot him/her self. Another thing we do during our AMA shows is to let all get a close up of the plane afterwards. Haff phun. (spiritofutah AST) > Eye Indo, I'll take up your challenge and invite the C/L guys to our > Fun Fly. I still have a Sterling beginners mustang I could breakout for > the occasion. oops, dang speel chuker !! competition, NOT compaction > You will not be sorry. > As I stated before, the routine that "our" CL pilot has is awesome, since [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> Fun Fly. I still have a Sterling beginners mustang I could breakout for >> the occasion. I put a tower hobbies .46 on my radientech trainer...and I think it would be a perfect plane for a cheap .40 engine. This evolution plane flies just as good as my nexstar and lands without a bounce and slows down quickly on grass....even with the cheap wheels included. I did about 15 touch and goes with mine on the first flight...and came back with half a tank of fuel...flies great at low throttle. I didn't try the rudder yet, but I wouldn't compare this plane to anything that cost over $100 (ARF)....it is just what it is...a cheap plane that is well worth the price.....just don't expect to get something for nothing....think about what it would cost to produce. Get this plane, a cheap .40-.46, and have fun....I only wish it would have had room for dual aleron servos. >Eye Indo > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Fun Fly. I still have a Sterling beginners mustang I could breakout for >the occasion. > Get this plane, a cheap .40-.46, and have fun....I only wish it would > have had room for dual aleron servos. You can do that EASILY! You better pick up another one and try again.... :-) Good flying, desmobob > Get this plane, a cheap .40-.46, and have fun....I only wish it would > have had room for dual aleron servos. A little wood, a little epoxy, and 2 HS-81's later and that's what I've got... Steve There are other choices for a .25 sized trainer if you don't mind some easy assembly. The Great Planes PT20, Goldberg Freedom 20, and the SIG Kadet LT-25 are all available through Tower Hobbies as well: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ555&P=0 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDJC0&P=0 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFG17&P=0 All three of the above kits are laser cut and are considered very easy to assemble, ideal choices for first kits. If you want another ARF choice, I'll go ahead and preach more Thunder Tiger to you in the form of the new .15 size Dragonfly: http://www.thundertiger4u.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_35&products_id=7297 You can probably stick a .25 2-stroke on the dragonfly if you already have one. If you need an engine, you can buy the Dragonfly .15 and a TT .15 GP engine both for $114.95 + s&h You can also enjoy flying the TT Lazy Tiger P-51 with a .25 2-stroke motor: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAVN4&P=7 Amazingly, it's one of the few Thunder Tiger planes available through Tower Hobbies! I've heard good things about the Phoenix Sonic .25 high and low wing planes, and either should be excellent choices. .25 sized planes aren't going the way of the dinosaur, you just have to look a little bit harder to find them. > Eye Indo > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the High wing. There aren't to many .25 trainer out there. In fact > there are very few .25 models of any type out there. Thanks for the quick replies guys. I plan on putting a TT.46 Pro in mine for now.It should have plenty o power for it. Will start with an 11x5 prop for starters and go from there. How does the main landing gear hold up? I assume that you used large screws in the nose wheel bracket to hold it better. I was thinking o making it a taildragger and ditching the nose wheel, but i think i will just us the stock set up now. Im going to make it a straight wing with no dihedral. Did you use the stock wing joiner that came with it or did anyone mak a new one? The stock wing joiner seems a little too short, about quarter of an inch, and i was going to attempt to build a new one t take up the extra length in the wing slot. I dont imagine that it will make much of difference but just thought it might be a good idea. Is there a way to reiforc the wing with screw down tabs on the top and bottom to help hold i together? For those that did the bolt on wings, how did you install the hol downs and where did you place them on the wing?? Do you have to put on a "lip" in the front or rear or the wing saddle to help hold the win down?? Ive got the hold down hardwear, but am not sure just how to do it. Sorry for all the questions...:) thanks in advance, Jef -- KyFBCGu > For those that did the bolt on wings, how did you install the hold > downs and where did you place them on the wing?? Do you have to put on a > "lip" in the front or rear or the wing saddle to help hold the wing > down?? > Ive got the hold down hardwear, but am not sure just how to do it. Yes, please, can someone shed some light on this? There are several of wanting to ditch the rubber bands... Anyone have pics, of the wing in particular? Thanks, Steve I got lucky, the UPS guy arrived before my wife. She was expecting th Polk Tracker III (gift from the Kids) but the Dorothy was a littl extra I ordered separately. I'm excited, the build quality is outstanding and it is light as feather. It is very plain but some trim strips should help a lot. Th construction reminds me of an old timer with lotsa open framework. Th fuselage is long with a beam mount for the engine, a real throwback This is perfect for me, I real floater. I wish it had flaps like th Telemaster as I'm sure it will float on landing. The Dorothy is to light what the Evolution is to Heavy. Differen animals entirely. I will be flying this next week for sure. The clubs having a freeze fl on New Years day and the Dorothy will be there. I hope it snows I woul love to try this on skis. I'm happy and excited and if it flies half as good as I think it wil it will be 50 bucks very well spent. :D :D :D Note to MK: This might be able to fly on a .25. I had an old Scientific Mercur (Vintage FF 72") which I flew with an OS .25 FP. Of course I usuall flew it at 25 feet or less so climb performance wasn't a priority. Did I say I was happy? :rolleyes -- flyboyanderso I managed to sneek down to the basement to get a closer look at Doroth (still a stupid name). Instructions are lousy. Parts fit perfectly. All flying surfaces hinge with real hinges and movement is free. All push rods are in place and a excellent servo tray is provided. Landing gear fits perfectly in slot and all holes drilled for screws. Covering is Solarfilm. Hardware i complete and of excellent quality. Tank comes with all tubes pre-bent Comes with a heavy duty sprung tail wheel and a nice set of wheels SuperTigre .45 fits perfectly on beams. Covering needs to be shrunk i places and the fuselage is a different shade of red and is opaque. C is right on the Spar. A forty looks ridicules on it. I wish I ha something smaller. Tomorrow I'll go to the LHS and get some trim. Tomorrow night I'll pu Polk's claim of one hour assembly to the test. I estimate it will b more like two hours. Yes the fit is that good -- flyboyanderso Hehe, sounds like you're bursting with anticipation! Keep us posted on your results. > I managed to sneek down to the basement to get a closer look at Dorothy > (still a stupid name). [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Polk's claim of one hour assembly to the test. I estimate it will be > more like two hours. Yes the fit is that good. Somebody else, can not find the post now, mentioned that there was a write up about the "Dorothy". So I read up on it. Not a bad write-up at all, and not half bad for a "new trainer". Then I read up on the polk website........ Really funny in the end. The plane is listed as being thirty (30), yes three zero, pounds !!!! Oh well, them dose darn speel chuckers nefwer werkz !!! http://216.86.38.243/POLKS/itemdesc.asp?CartId={CEA84C70-B6BB-4E05-B44EVEREST3-F A82DA8422C3}&ic=PLK10045&eq=&Tp= > I managed to sneek down to the basement to get a closer look at Dorothy > (still a stupid name). [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Polk's claim of one hour assembly to the test. I estimate it will be > more like two hours. Yes the fit is that good. I sent them an email regarding that and their response was that the box was so large that UPS forced them to use that weight due to the oversize box. SignaturePaul McIntosh RC-Bearings.com "when steel just isn't enough" > Somebody else, can not find the post now, mentioned that there was a write > up about the "Dorothy". So I read up on it. Not a bad write-up at all, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> Polk's claim of one hour assembly to the test. I estimate it will be >> more like two hours. Yes the fit is that good. Great Link Ed, now I have some instructions. Didn't get to build, jus too darn close to Christmas. I have off next week I'll be flying th Dorothy for sure. Should we start a new thread? Just got back from Midnight Mass. Merry Christmas All! and... Please dear God "Peace on Earth" ( I have two kids in the military -- flyboyanderso Just flew the Dorathy today. With a super tigre .45 it takes about 30 feet to takeoff. After that went darn near verticle till it was a speck; shutdown the engine an just let her glide for about 3-4 minutes. Deadstick landings are breeze. A great trainer -- flyboyanderso Hehe, nice description! So is the Dorothy a glow trainer, or a glow-powered glider? Sounds like you had a good time flying, that's what counts. > Just flew the Dorathy today. > > With a super tigre .45 it takes about 30 feet to takeoff. After that I > went darn near verticle till it was a speck; shutdown the engine and > just let her glide for about 3-4 minutes. Deadstick landings are a > breeze. A great trainer! Anyone tried converting this plane to Electric yet? Dan TrueRC I would be interested in converting the Dorathy to 'lectric! I will probably buy another one very soon to take advantage of th sale. But I would love to find an inexpensive (relatively) electri combo for this Trainer. I seriously think it would fly with th equivalent of a .25 - .30 glow engine. Do you know much about electric conversions? I know nothing. Perhaps we should start a new thread somewhere else -- flyboyanderso Yes, I would be happy to help you out. It is commonly adopted that you need 100Watts of power per pound of static weight this 100Wats its true for 3D flying where you need 1:1 For this trainer You would be ok with 60-80W per pound. The only thing left is to pick the Motor and prop. We have a $50 motor available that could pull this plane around with ease (that's why if anyone tried to electrify this plane) and I have my sights on this inexpensive setup for the summer fun project ( one of my million daily ideas) The motor is Brushless Outrunner Motor 2915-5 that delivers 3.25 lb of thrust with a 11x6 APC and a 4 cell lipo and 40A ESC I will get this plane and start the thread as soon as possible. Dan Has any one flown theirs yet and have a maiden report and pics/vide they can post -- habutt Habutti Which plane, the evolution or the Dorathy? I've flown both, no pictures or video yet -- flyboyanderso flyboyanderson, my request is for the Evolution. Thank -- habutt Habutti The Evolution flies like a basic aileron trainer. The thunder tiger .4 hauled it off easily and it trimmed out fine. It prefers to be flow faster than what I would like for basic training purposes. Slow fligh characteristics were poor, it had a tendency to snap when stalled. Thi snapping tendency I incorrectly identified as a glich when I first fle it about a month ago. Basically It doesn't fit in with the way I fly. I'll probably use it a a mule for breaking in new engines; or, I'll let someone use it wh wants to transition to an aileron trainer; or, I might just give i away. Its not a bad model, Its just nothing special, interesting, o challenging. Habutti, what kind of flying are you looking to do -- flyboyanderso Well actually I am trying to get started in RC flying and bought it a an inexpensive entry level plane to see if I really get the hand o this, and if it crashes early I can easily replace it without going to much out of pocket. I have an OS MAX 40 FP engine that I intend to pu in it, once Raidentech replaces the broken wing :( I already have a SIG KAVALIER kit on the shelf as a second plane. Wha is your take/opinion -- habutt Flew the Dorathy again today. This time I programmed in Aileron/Rudde mix. What a difference. Since this is a "rudder" loving plane th application of rudder and aileron really makes for great turns and mor effective roll. I feel confident that anyone with a little help coul easily fly this plane. I added more throw for more down elevator bu there still is not enough to hold inverted. It might be a tad nos heavy. The landing gear is to far aft which makes keeping the nose ou of the dirt difficult. I may try bending it forward. Again, most of my flying was done at 1/4 throttle. It's a blast t takeoff across the runway and climb almost straight up; shut off th engine and see how many loops you can do. Also, great for deadstic spot landings. Landing does require planning as this plane will floa the entire length of the runway at idle speed. My next mod will be to install two Aileron/Flap servos and progra flaperons. This should help to control glide path better. Two club members bought Dorathys and should have them flying shortly We joked about having a Dorathy formation flight. That would be a exciting as watching paint dry -- flyboyanderso > Flew the Dorathy again today. This time I programmed in Aileron/Rudder > mix. What a difference. Since this is a "rudder" loving plane the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > heavy. The landing gear is to far aft which makes keeping the nose out > of the dirt difficult. I may try bending it forward. I havn'tbeen following this for very long. Could you give some info on the Dorathy? Thanks George Actually its Dorothy not Dorathy. I've been spelling it incorrectly. The Dorothy is a big ARF 72" trainer. I'm told it is like a Telemaster. Here is a link to Picture: http://216.86.38.243/mmPOLKS/Images/PLK10045.jpg Thanks to Ed there is a review here: http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=1&ID=115 And it can be bought here: http://www.polkshobby.com/index1.html If your looking for a very docile trainer then this is an excellent choice. It is light weight and floats like an old timer so you can fly it low and slow with confidence. Also its size makes it easier to see. The quality is very good, the hardware is good, but the instructions leave a lot out. I enjoy flying it. It offers different challenges. One of the ways I hotdog with the Dorothy is to takeoff ACROSS the runway; climb almost straight up till it is a speck; shutdown the engine and see how many loops I can do; Pitchout for landing at very low altitude and see how close I can land it to me. I need a student! I'll enjoy training with this plane and I'll get a lot of satisfaction out of it. John, hope this helps Signatureflyboyanderson > I need a student! I'll enjoy training with this plane and I'll get a > lot of satisfaction out of it. > > flyboyanderson Hehe, I can't imagine you'll be able to fly for very long without somebody coming along and taking an interest in what you're doing! Just keep your buddy box with you at the field and I'm certain someone will come along who wants to give it a try. lost my instruction manual for my start 40 evolution 2 and i need t know the cg point doees anyone still have there' -- bebopki The instruction manuals from "budget" ARF manufacturers often get mistranslated, and the published CG locations are usually incorrect as a result. Just balance the CG on the main wing spar or near the front 25% of the wing chord and you should be good to go. You can fine tune it after you fly it, but 25% of the wing chord is a good, safe conservative starting point for most any high-wing trainer. > lost my instruction manual for my start 40 evolution 2 and i need to > know the cg > point doees anyone still have there's I have that in my shop and I'll look asap. mk > lost my instruction manual for my start 40 evolution 2 and i need to > know the cg > point doees anyone still have there's Looks like 73.33 mm back from leading edge. Talk about precise! mk >I have that in my shop and I'll look asap. > mk >> >> lost my instruction manual for my start 40 evolution 2 and i need to >> know the cg >> point doees anyone still have there's |
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