First RC Plane ?
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Hilltop Cycle ATV - 24 Jul 2006 23:40 GMT I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What would you guys recommend ? ANd would you say electric or start out with nitro ? Being a beginner and teaching myself I would like something that holds up . Any suggestions for a 36 year old beginner ? Thanks, Raz
David Bacque - 24 Jul 2006 23:45 GMT >I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Raz The best advice you'll ever get is to join a club and find an instructor. It's by far the cheapest way to learn to fly.
Dave
Morgans - 25 Jul 2006 03:04 GMT > The best advice you'll ever get is to join a club and find an instructor. > It's by far the cheapest way to learn to fly. Best advise, for sure. It is very doubtful that you will learn to fly yourself, without totaling several planes. You just can't get enough airtime, in the beginning, without stuffing it into the ground.
I tried to teach myself, and I was on the 3rd plane before I got smart and went and found a club. Even then, there were minor repairs to be done, sometimes.
Electric or gas depends on where you have available to fly, and how long you want to fly each session.
Electric will be more expensive at first, if you want a quality brushless motor, an extra battery or two, and a good charger.
Gas takes a bigger area free of people to complain, if you or others in the club have loud motors.
It might be a good idea to find a club first, and see what most of them are flying.
 Signature Jim in NC
The Natural Philosopher - 25 Jul 2006 11:28 GMT >> I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >> just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The best advice you'll ever get is to join a club and find an instructor. > It's by far the cheapest way to learn to fly. It isn't if you have to drive a 40 mile round trip, and then wait in line for maybe a single flight a week.
> Dave Ted Campanelli - 25 Jul 2006 03:11 GMT Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:
> I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, > just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Raz Your best bet is join a club and get an instructor. Clubs provide instructors at no charge to members.
You can try teaching yourself how to fly, but it is a steep learning curve and you will go through several planes before (if ever ) you learn how to fly.
Simulators WILL NOT teach you how to fly - there are too many differences between a simulator and the real world. Sims can and do help with instructions/lessons you have already received.
mikeshane357@hotmail.com - 25 Jul 2006 12:22 GMT I studied theory of flight, and learned on a simulator. The books taught me how to fly, but the simulator helped to make control input second nature. It's not for everyone though.
> You can try teaching yourself how to fly, but it is a steep learning > curve and you will go through several planes before (if ever ) you learn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > differences between a simulator and the real world. Sims can and do > help with instructions/lessons you have already received. Morgans - 25 Jul 2006 13:14 GMT > I studied theory of flight, and learned on a simulator. The books > taught me how to fly, but the simulator helped to make control input > second nature. It's not for everyone though. I'll bet you still over-control, at first. There is a time lag, in real life.
 Signature Jim in NC
The Natural Philosopher - 25 Jul 2006 15:33 GMT >> I studied theory of flight, and learned on a simulator. The books >> taught me how to fly, but the simulator helped to make control input >> second nature. It's not for everyone though. > > I'll bet you still over-control, at first. There is a time lag, in real > life. There is on the simulator, too. on mine anyway (realflight G2)
The Natural Philosopher - 25 Jul 2006 15:32 GMT > I studied theory of flight, and learned on a simulator. The books > taught me how to fly, but the simulator helped to make control input > second nature. It's not for everyone though. QA poll on the RCgroups site revealed that MOST of the better contributors were self taught.
I certainly have never had an instructor.
My friend who occasionally flies, spent about 4 hours on my simulator and was able to pilot a sedate model around at height pretty well last weekend. He IS a full size plot, but he hasn't touched an RC plane for 18 months.
I wanted him to land it but he refused 'I don't trust my reflexes with the plane coming towards me at low level'
thousands of kids have learned to fly on slow stiks and the like..or the GWS e-starter.
Simulators help a great deal - especially with the 'reverse control coming at me' thing.
I find the real planes EASIER to fly than the sim.
Sure you may crash a few planes, but with a 'stik at less than 50 dollars airframe wise, its hardly the end of the world.
Cisco Kid - 26 Jul 2006 03:20 GMT > Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not so > great) words of knowledge: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > between a simulator and the real world. Sims can and do help with > instructions/lessons you have already received. I'll venture to disagree with the last comment. You can get a LOT of valuable orientation training via the simulator. I can't count how many planes I crashed on the sim. When my son and I started the buddy box instructor training we were already pretty well versed at "flying the plane around". We could do coordinated aileron/elevator turns, knew how to taxi and got the reverse coming at you control situation pretty well licked. Both of us soloed after 6 flights on the buddy box.
In fact, I think sim flying is more difficult than real life flying. It's like flying outside while you're inside looking out the window. Or like flying while looking the wrong way through a set of binoculars.
What an instructor will teach you vs. any kind of simulated training is how to fly safely while among other fliers and people. Priceless...
Johnny Borborigmi - 27 Jul 2006 01:39 GMT > Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not > so great) words of knowledge: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Your best bet is join a club and get an instructor. Clubs provide > instructors at no charge to members. In some cases that depends if you're rich or not. Example, the local club to me wants $75 to join PLUS a $50 "initiation" fee AND you have to be an AMA member ($58).
Hmmmm, that's $183! NO THANK YOU! Plus I have to "prove" to some "member" I'm a safe flyer before they'll let me use the field alone. They can EAT ME.
MK - 27 Jul 2006 17:58 GMT >> Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not >> so great) words of knowledge: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'm a safe flyer before they'll let me use the field alone. They can EAT > ME. A person could easily waste much more than that trying to learn alone(don't ask me how I know) It's not a matter of IF it's going to crash....... mk
Peter J. de Vrijer - 27 Jul 2006 20:04 GMT >> Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not >> so great) words of knowledge: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "member" I'm a safe flyer before they'll let me use the field alone. > They can EAT ME. Apart from the cost, any club that let you use their field is wise to make sure that you will not crash your plane into the spectators, the clubhouse, the parked cars etc.
I am enjoying my lessons here in the Netherlands and will sure do my exam this summer. I am still flying my first trainer with no crash to this moment (knock on wood).
Peter.
| Peter J. de Vrijer e-mail: pdevrijer_nospam_@home.nl | zendamateurs: pa5dv_nospam_@amsat.org | | And perhaps the horse will learn to sing! Morgans - 27 Jul 2006 22:55 GMT > In some cases that depends if you're rich or not. Example, the local > club to me wants $75 to join PLUS a $50 "initiation" fee AND you have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "member" I'm a safe flyer before they'll let me use the field alone. > They can EAT ME. That is unfortunate. There are clubs like that, but my experience has been that there are more that are not.
Shop around. Lacking that, perhaps one of the club members would help you on your own land.
 Signature Jim in NC
Ed Forsythe - 28 Jul 2006 16:54 GMT No yearly dues or are the dues $75/year? Either way it's not expensive considering you'll always have a nice, maintained field from which to fly. Plus the companionship of all kinds of pilots from whom you may even learn something. If you are a safe pilot the checkout is no sweat. If you can't safely control your bird you shouldn't be allowed to fly *anywhere* you could damage persons or property. Learn to share the load. It's only through the AMA and individual clubs that we have *any* fields or frequencies for that matter. At the very minimum I hope that you check to insure that there are no RC fields within 3 miles of your flying location. I'm sure you are aware that loss of control of an RC aircraft could cause serious personal injury or death.
On 2006-07-24 22:11:48 -0400, Ted Campanelli <tcamp@grumpyoldmen.com> said:
>> Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not >> so great) words of knowledge: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'm a safe flyer before they'll let me use the field alone. They can EAT > ME. Johnny Borborigmi - 30 Jul 2006 21:15 GMT > No yearly dues or are the dues $75/year? $75 per year. Add to that the yearly $58 AMA dues. $133 for the "priviledge" of flying on "their" field.
Nahhh.
Either way it's not expensive considering you'll always have a nice, maintained field from which to fly. Plus the companionship of all kinds of pilots from whom you may even learn something. If you are a safe pilot the checkout is no sweat. If you can't safely control your bird you shouldn't be allowed to fly *anywhere* you could damage persons or property. Learn to share the load. It's only through the AMA and individual clubs that we have *any* fields or frequencies for that matter. At the very minimum I hope that you check to insure that there are no RC fields within 3 miles of your flying location. I'm sure you are aware that loss of control of an RC aircraft could cause serious personal injury or death.
I found a 76 acre park not that far I can fly in. Won't cost anything to fly there and I'd rather make a donation to help protect this park for all than to some elitist "club".
I don't mind paying the $58 a year AMA dues per se but the "club" dues/fees are rediculous IMHO.
They must want to keep membership numbers low.
Ed Cregger - 30 Jul 2006 21:22 GMT >> No yearly dues or are the dues $75/year? > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > They must want to keep membership numbers low. Have you ever had to mow a property of that size regularly? Mowers and fuel cost money. This is assuming that you can find a driver to spend their free time mowing a field. I did that for years and never received payment for it. Six hours a week, just so some fellow elitist could fly.
I've met many fellows like you during my life time. I'm not saying anything negative about you. I just do not understand what makes you tick. So be it.
Ed Cregger
Jennifer Smith - 25 Jul 2006 03:44 GMT > I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, > just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Raz Oh, my age :)
Anyway, let's address your questions first, shall we? -> Electric or nitro? * It's a matter of preference. If you're familiar with nitro engines you should be fine with it that is. * Electric is more expensive up front, nitro on the other hand has fuel costs - although you'll probably replace batteries every now and then too. * Electric can usually be flown in local parks, whereas there are usually regulations against flying nitro planes in city limits - which also rules out your back yard, theoretically. * Small electrics are often lightweight and slow enough to quite literally fly them in your back yard or even indoors - once you have enough practice that is.
-> Which plane? * Personally, I like the small cheap electric RTF's available practically everywhere nowadays for practice. They're cheap, and if you bust it, big deal. If you're good at working with wood, foam and/or covering you can build your own trainer for a lot cheaper though. * Get a high wing trainer. A nice slow plane with friendly flight characteristics should be a lot more fun to learn on than a blazing fast fully aerobatic 3D plane. * I won't recommend any specific plane, as preference depends on where you fly (airfield, grass field, asphalt, indoors...) :)
-> Teaching yourself? It's definitely possible to teach yourself flying an R/C aircraft. However, it's more difficult than having a teacher. I learned it on my own though, and largely without destroying my planes.
Flying is comparatively easy - landing is the tricky part.
If you are indeed set on teaching yourself, invest in a good computer R/C simulator. You _can_ learn with the free FMS sim, but be aware that the flight physics there are not too accurate. Any of the commercial sims does work fine, in my humble opinion. FMS can teach you the basics though. Once you can keep a plane in the air in the sim, practice landings. Over and over and over until you're sick of it. Then practice emergency landings. Shut off the engine in mid-air: directly after takeoff, when banking, during final approach... shut it off and try to land your plane in one piece if you can. Again, practice that over and over until you're completely sick of it and can recover and land your plane while drunk and sound asleep. Resist the temptation in the sim to whip around your plane in crazy patterns - as a beginner it does nothing for you other than give you a false sense of confidence.
When you finally take your shiny new plane out to the field, make sure you have a HUGE field available. Preferably one with lots of landing area - long runway and so on. Read up on pre-flight checks and follow them religiously. Use your brain and don't do stupid things like getting your fingers chopped to pieces by a spinning prop :) Once you have your plane in the air, get it up to altitude and fly lazy circles. Altitude is your friend there, it allows you to recover before mother earth catches it rather roughly. :) Then practice approaches - align for landing, slowly descending for landing. Do not land though... fly by slowly, throttle back up, take another round and approach again. Approach from your left and your right - many pilots I've met cannot land equally well from both directions. Then, when you got the feeling for approaches, land. If you did your homework, you still have a plane. If you didn't... do the walk of shame and go collect the pieces.
Now, if after reading this you STILL want to teach yourself... go for it. :) Told ya, it's easier with a teacher. At least then you got someone to land it for you if your fingers are too sweaty to grip the sticks ;)
Jenni (too much time on my hands, writing way too long mails again)
Rick - 25 Jul 2006 11:16 GMT >> I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at >> it, just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Anyway, let's address your questions first, shall we? <snip>
> -> Which plane? <snip>
> -> Teaching yourself? <snip>
> Now, if after reading this you STILL want to teach yourself... go for > it. :) Told ya, it's easier with a teacher. At least then you got > someone to land it for you if your fingers are too sweaty to grip the > sticks ;) I'd agree with everything Jenni has said and add; get a good popular trainer, don't know with electric but i have experience of the Tiger trainer which is very good. Pick a trainer with ailerons, rudder elevator only models respond slowly to control input which makes them harder to fly.
If teaching yourself; the free flight sim CRRCSim is well good enough to get you over the orientation problem and gives a good idea of how it feels to fly a model (i use it with a 2 joystick game pad.) Be sure you understand the basics of aerodynamics and what each of the control surfaces do (roll, pitch, yaw.)
First flight: make sure you take off into wind, use the rudder to keep the model straight on the ground, climb to a good height, release the sticks and trim the model for straight and level flight at around half throttle. Spend the rest of the flight following Jenni's instruction on landing. You only have 10 - 15 mins flight time so land before you run out of fuel/power. If during one of your approaches you get it right, land, don't go round again, land and refuel.
I taught myself and did not break a model learning, i did loose it when flying on a windy day. I just couldn't make it fly up wind, so i cut the engine. Next day i had a phone call from a farmer who had found it sitting in his field undamaged!!! (i always put my phone number on models with inherent stability.) My first model did get broken many times all due to radio failure/interference. This was back in the days of 27mghz AM. Fortunately modern 35mghz FM radios are way more reliable.
That said it is better, safer and less costly on models to join a club (make sure you have BMFA membership or some other third party insurance) instruction is usually free and someone experienced will do your pre-flight checks.
 Signature Rick --
Ed Forsythe - 25 Jul 2006 21:11 GMT Hi Jenni, As usual you provided well thought out advice which Rick supplemented nicely. IMHO, if you don't have access to a *qualified* instructor a sim is essential (yes you can learn to fly with a sim if you use it properly and don't treat it as a game). You must do a little research and learn the functions of the controls (elevator, ailerons, rudder, *and* throttle. Shouldn't take you more than a half hour or so to learn how an aircraft moves about the three axis (pitch, roll and yaw.) Do that, then have fun for an hour or two crashing your sim to get it out of your system before you settle down to the learning process and you'll be OK. As a car type you shouldn't have a problem with the apparent control reversal when the bird is coming toward you. good luck and happy flying!
An old *experienced* fart who enjoys hangar flying with modelers of all types and who is still capable of learning by observing. Please God, help the stick knockers see the light! ;-)) -
>> I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >> just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Jenni (too much time on my hands, writing way too long mails again) Mark Miller - 26 Jul 2006 02:56 GMT > Resist the temptation in the sim to whip around your plane in crazy > patterns - as a beginner it does nothing for you other than give you a > false sense of confidence. Okay, there was a lot of stuff in her post, and I pretty well agree with it, but I wanted to comment on this part.
I useta do a lot of instructing, and once the students had gotten to the point where they could cruise around the sky pretty well and maybe do the occasional loop, I'd start on 'unusual attitude' training. I had a buddy box, of course, so I'd do something like, say, pull the nose up vertical, cut the throttle, wait until the plane was starting to fall backward and then say "you're flying it." Or I'd put it in a full-power inverted climb, or try to knife-edge. Or whatever. After their initial startled reactions (I didn't usually warn them. Partly because that made it more fun for *me*), the students discovered that as long as they didn't panic, they really could recover to straight & level from pretty much anything I threw at them. By the 3rd or 4th maneuver, most of 'em actually enjoyed it. And forever after, they wouldn't get rattled if the plane did something they didn't expect - they knew that if they had a little altitude, they could recover, and they knew how to do it.
So, if you're going to be spending a lot of time on the sims in lieu of getting an instructor, do some things like that. I agree that just whipping around the sky until you crash isn't terribly educational, but doing some of your own unusual attitude practice may be time well-spent.
- Mark
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Ed Forsythe - 26 Jul 2006 14:13 GMT Excellent point Mark. The USAF calls it unusual attitude/position training and I have been exposed to it as well as teaching it to RC noobs (back when my reflexes were good enough to teach) <S>. I agree it's fun for the instructor and it's a *huge* confidence builder for the noob.
>> Resist the temptation in the sim to whip around your plane in crazy >> patterns - as a beginner it does nothing for you other than give you a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Mark OP - 25 Jul 2006 04:00 GMT >I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Thanks, >Raz If you have any building experience, I'd recommend the "Piece O' Cake" or the "Butterfly". Both are big floaters with glo engines. You can teach yourself how to fly these.
I don't know about others, but I have found the clubs in my area to be pretty clannish and pretty much worthless. A bunch of old guys who talk all day and fly about once a month.... and another bunch of young guys, late teens early twenties, who fly all the time and can't be bothered with newbies. Hopefully clubs in your are will be better.
If there are no clubs, find a field where guys just hang together and fly several times in an afternoon. Hang around and ask a few questions. After a while you'll find out who helps the new guys the most and it's a place to start. In my experience you'll get the best help from a group like this.
Ron
The Natural Philosopher - 25 Jul 2006 11:28 GMT > I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, > just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Raz Slow stick Cheap, so if you find it ain't for you, no big loss relatively crashproof Flies almost anywhere Dead easy to fly. No instructor needed Safe, wouldn't kill a pet rabbit at full throttle.
THEN once you are bored with it, ask again.
Hilltop Cycle ATV - 25 Jul 2006 23:28 GMT >> I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >> just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > THEN once you are bored with it, ask again. Where do I purchase/ look at this plane called a slow stick ? TNP , I tried to email you but you do not have a valid email address . Thanks, raz
Hilltop Cycle ATV - 25 Jul 2006 23:33 GMT >I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Raz Ok, how about a RTF setup ? I checked out the slow stick but it is a kit and I would also have to buy a trans/recvr ,servos and motor.
Roy Minut - 26 Jul 2006 08:19 GMT This plane is also sold with all accessories included (check Tower Hobbies.) However buying the items seperately allows you to look foward to the future and purchase the transmitter for future growth. You could at this time buy a 6 channel transmitter although it is overkill for the slow stick it allows you freedom for better planes in the future. Of course you don't want to get a real powerful motor so that the slow stick is vastly overpowered, either. But you can get a motor/gearbox combo that is the maximum configuration for the slow stick which would allow the combo to be used in a different plane in the future.
Just my humble thoughts! Roy
>> I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at >> it, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > buy a > trans/recvr ,servos and motor.
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byrocat - 26 Jul 2006 18:26 GMT 1) Check on the AMA or MAAC or whoever is your national organization website for clubs in your area 2) Drop by the field and talk to an instructor about what airplanes are being used 3) Club may have the standing offer of a free introductory flight, take it. 4) Ask about local hobby shops that actually are useful 5) Check on package deals at the local hobby shop ($$$$$) 6) Check on used trainers and engines. Do NOT buy a used radio system.
Attend meetings and events.
The LT40 series of planes are fine. I would prefer one with a semi-symmetrical airfoil to get you into introductory aerobatics without ahving to change planes. The Lanier Exploerer 40 ARF is a good second plane -- I just got one electrified.
Bruce
Ken Day - 26 Jul 2006 20:27 GMT >I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at it, >just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . What [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Thanks, >Raz My first suggestion would be to find a club and an instructor. You're definately going to need some help. Sure will save a lot of heartache and airplanes.
If there is no club in your area , I would recommend a good simulator such as Real Flight , Reflex and some others. Reflex being my first choice. You can learn a lot from the sims , especially the 'coming toward you disorientation' that most everyone gets. There is a wide choice of aircraft and most of them fly very much like the 'full scale' models.
I've taught many to fly over the years and it's amazing at the difference in the people who have used simulators. I see people soloing in very short order. I had two this year that soloed their very first day. I also seen one young man of about 20-22 years old come out with a .40 size Cap 232 with an OS .52 and flew without any help at all. His dad said he had spent many hours on the simulator, I kept sitting there watching and thinking that he would get in real trouble , but he never did. That was 2 years ago and he's flyng great and has never had any help.
This is the_ exception_ rather than the rule , but the sims sure make a LOT of difference in learning to fly. So much different than a few years ago before we had these good sims.
But.....make_ sure_ you_ get an experienced flyer to help you. The sim is certainly not a replacement for an instructor....just an aid.
Ken
Johnny Borborigmi - 27 Jul 2006 01:31 GMT > I have ran rc cars/trucks for years now . Not saying I am any good at > it, just backyard bashing . But I would like to get my first RC plane . [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > Raz The EasyStar RTF!
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