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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / September 2006



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OK.... so  don't use CA HINGES...  I have a  new .40 twist and a funtana 90S to build...

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Gig - 04 Sep 2006 20:52 GMT
Hello all.
 I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
 Thanks as always.
gig
David Bacque - 04 Sep 2006 21:27 GMT
> Hello all.
>  I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
> hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
> a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
>  Thanks as always.
> gig

Most any pinned hinge would be good.  My favorite is the Robart hinge point.
Drilling a hole is much easier than slotting and the Robart jig makes
centering the hole a piece of cake.  And they're available in 3 sizes.  I
use them for everything from 1/2A to 1/4 scale and I've never had a hinge
failure.

Dave
Storm's Hamilton - 04 Sep 2006 23:46 GMT
Seems like I used Klett and maybe DuBro pinned hinges.  Don't get glue in
the pin.  I realize there was a long thread against CA hinges but(let me
qualify this) in my humble opinion, if you install them correctly, and use a
good product, and pray to the RC gods, make a sacrifice(ei. stick your hand
in a prop), they will work well.  You might have to check them now and again
for wear but you really should do that for the whole craft.  I have seen
more plastic hinges fail than CA  ones fail.
mk

000.com> wrote in message
news:ip0pf2l7581dqiu4bdcsb8n0dn7guncc8f@4ax.com...
> Hello all.
>  I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
> hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
> a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
>  Thanks as always.
> gig
Ted Campanelli - 05 Sep 2006 00:43 GMT
Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not
so great) words of knowledge:
> Hello all.
>   I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
> hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
> a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
>   Thanks as always.
>  gig

Each type of hinge has it's uses AND positive and negatives about them.

The nylon hinges (Klett type ) need to be roughened up AND the hinge
joint LIBERALLY lubricated with Vaseline to prevent the epoxy from
getting in the hinge joint.  The hinge slot MAY need to be recessed in
order for the control surfaces to be close enough.

Robart hinges, same problem and solution for the joint AND the hole for
the hinge will need to be recessed in order to get the surfaces close
enough to minimize a gap.

CA hinges PROPERLY INSTALLED hold up just as well as most nylon hinges.

To PROPERLY install a CA hinge:

1.  The slots for the hinge must be SNUG, not tight.

2.  Drill a 1/16" hole in the center of the slot.  This allows the CA to
properly wick down into the wood and hinge.

3.  Insert 2 pins in the center of the CA hinge to prevent it from
having too much material on one side or the other.  The 2 pins insures
that the hinge is straight and not crooked in the slot.

4.  Draw a line with a crayon ON BOTH SIDES of the center of the hinge
(hinge line ).  This prevents the CA from hardening this area.

5.  Insert the hinges into the moveable surface and then insert the
moveable surface into the fixed surface.  Remove the pins from the
hinges and firmly push the 2 pieces together.

6.  Now flex the moveable surface to the maximum amount, and while
holding it in this position, put 3 or 4 drops of CA on the hinge.  Flex
the moveable surface the other way and repeat.  MAKE SURE YOU USE THIN
CA.  In this case, especially, more CA is not better.

I have flown 1.60 powered aircraft with hinges done this way with
absolutely no problems.
Ed Cregger - 05 Sep 2006 01:27 GMT
> Hello all.
>  I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
> hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
> a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
>  Thanks as always.
> gig

I use CA hinges in all of my smaller planes (below a .90 - except for hot
pattern ships). I haven't had a failure yet, that I can recall. There is a
technique to it and just which CA hinge you use matters to, I suppose.

Ed Cregger
JJVB - 05 Sep 2006 13:31 GMT
Use a good quality CA hinge and properly install them and you will be
fine.  I like Radio South CA hinges (blue ones).  I have yet to have a
CA hinge fail.

I use Robart hinges when possible.  You must have a thick enough
trailing edge to glue the hinge into.  Most ARFs with balsa trailing
edges do not have enough material to use Robart hinges.  I would say
you need a minimum of 1/2 inch of thickness for using Robart hinges.
They are great on foam surfaces.

John VB

> Hello all.
>   I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
> hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
> a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
>   Thanks as always.
>  gig
Red Scholefield - 05 Sep 2006 18:11 GMT
Did you ever notice that the guys having problems with CA hinges are also
the same ones that have batteries that reverse just setting on the shelf,
and are frequently getting shot down by radio interference? Seems like they
are plagued by poor products.  :-)

Red S.

> Use a good quality CA hinge and properly install them and you will be
> fine.  I like Radio South CA hinges (blue ones).  I have yet to have a
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>   Thanks as always.
>>  gig
Doc Ferguson - 05 Sep 2006 21:40 GMT
> Did you ever notice that the guys having problems with CA hinges are also
> the same ones that have batteries that reverse just setting on the shelf,
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >>   Thanks as always.
> >>  gig

I have witnessed catostrophic results of not getting hinges secured
properly.   One was an Lt. 40.  This was an ARF.  The elevators,
ailerons and rudder needed to be hinged.
This poor guy had only flown the LT 40 twiice.  The disaster occurred
when he was doing a 360 and the elevator simply came loose, fell off
and the plane naturally lost control.  I am a firm believer is using
DuBro hinges and use Gorilla Glue.  I put vasoline on the hinge pins,
roughen up the hinge surface, drill a hole center, place a drop of
water in the center hole.  The water acts as a catalyst on the gorilla
glue.  Yes you get bubbling but this is simply scraped off and or wiped
off the hinge with the vasoline.  I also drill two small holes into the
DuBro hinges and use round tooth picks to really secure those hinges.
This works especially well for trainers such as the LT 40, Senior's,
Etc.  Its just a little more insurance when you finally do those loops
and rolls eventually as a novice.
Simple elmers glue on the tooth picks will hold them in place.
Doc Ferguson
David Bacque - 05 Sep 2006 22:26 GMT
> Use a good quality CA hinge and properly install them and you will be
> fine.  I like Radio South CA hinges (blue ones).  I have yet to have a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> you need a minimum of 1/2 inch of thickness for using Robart hinges.
> They are great on foam surfaces.

With a little care, Robart hinges can easily be used on 3/16" balsa sheet
surfaces.  Doesn't seem like you could drill 1/8" holes in 3/16" balsa but I
do it all the time.  I've built 6 planes in the last year with 3/16" balsa
sheet tail surfaces and used hinge points on all of them.

Use the Robart jig and hold it in place with fingers overlapping onto the
surface.  When you can feel the bit under the wood, steer it a little the
other way.  I also shorten them by cutting off 2 barbs when using them on
surfaces of this size.

Dave
JJVB - 07 Sep 2006 13:30 GMT
> With a little care, Robart hinges can easily be used on 3/16" balsa sheet
> surfaces.  Doesn't seem like you could drill 1/8" holes in 3/16" balsa but I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Dave

I meant thickness from front to back.  You must have enough material to
engage at least a couple of the barbs on the Robart hinge point.  I
have had good success using poly-u glue with Robarts hinges.  It really
fills all of the spaces, especially in foam surfaces.  Make sure the
hinge portion is coated in vaseline or other glue retardent.

John VB
Bill Sheppard - 07 Sep 2006 14:15 GMT
I've seen Robart hinge points pull out, but it was due to a catastrophic
cartwheel of a big Accord 60 electric. The aileron hinges came out, but
with the wood they were glued to still firmly attached.  
                                            Bill(oc)
Red Scholefield - 07 Sep 2006 19:07 GMT
The wood gave away, not the hinges.  Therefore we can deduce that wood
should not be used in models where there may be high stress levels. :-)

Red S.

> I've seen Robart hinge points pull out, but it was due to a catastrophic
> cartwheel of a big Accord 60 electric. The aileron hinges came out, but
> with the wood they were glued to still firmly attached.
>                                             Bill(oc)
Tweek - 06 Sep 2006 14:48 GMT
> Use a good quality CA hinge and properly install them and you will be
> fine.  I like Radio South CA hinges (blue ones).  I have yet to have a
> CA hinge fail.

Same here...been using the Radio South (and similar) hinges since the
80's, and never had one fail. I've got them in a Don Muddiman Flying
Machine, and have flown the pants off of it since around '90 (it was
actually owned by me and two other guys, and it finally found it's way
bac to my stable). Constant full throttle dives, high speed snaps, etc.

My opinion is to not let the ca wick out into the hinge line, where it
can harden the deflection point and cause it to crack/fail. I do have
parts of birds that were crashed (due to other things, mostly
dumb-thumbs & pilot error), and the Ca hinges are still solidly intact.

Just my $.01 worth :-)
Dave
AMA 119484
http://www.rd-rc.org/
byrocat - 06 Sep 2006 20:33 GMT
No matter what type of hinge that's being used, we should all remember
to do a pull test on all surfaces when pre-flighting for the first
time.  In addition, regular pre-session inspection of all hinges will
find the one that's failing.

Preventative action is then taken to replace the hinge before flight
loads cause the adjacent hinges to fail.
Mark Miller - 07 Sep 2006 02:13 GMT
"byrocat" <bdealhoy@sympatico.ca> wrote in news:1157571198.060457.281580
@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

> No matter what type of hinge that's being used, we should all remember
> to do a pull test on all surfaces when pre-flighting for the first
> time.  

Amen!  There are an awful lot of ways that a hinge installation can be bad,
even if builder did an ideal job (suppose there's a crack in the wood
adjacent to the hinge, for example).  So, absolutely - once you've got it
all put together and the glue has had time to cure or dry - give the
surface a good solid pull.  Then think about how bad it would be if it came
apart in the air, and give it another good solid pull.  In my experience,
the first pull is a little tentative because I'm afraid I might break
something.  The second pull is quite a bit harder.

Try tugging around the individual hinges to see if there's any give.  As he
notes below, one failed hinge can cause the others to fail.  

> In addition, regular pre-session inspection of all hinges will
> find the one that's failing.

Also good.  In practice, I don't think I've ever found a hinge failing on a
'mature' airplane, unless you count foamies or crash side effects.  But I
still check 'em from time to time.

> Preventative action is then taken to replace the hinge before flight
> loads cause the adjacent hinges to fail.

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"Whatever will have been, will have been."

- Douglas Adams, "Life, The Universe, and Everything"

David Hopper - 07 Sep 2006 02:05 GMT
>Same here...been using the Radio South (and similar) hinges since the
>80's, and never had one fail. I've got them in a Don Muddiman Flying
>Machine, and have flown the pants off of it since around '90 (it was
>actually owned by me and two other guys, and it finally found it's way
>bac to my stable). Constant full throttle dives, high speed snaps, etc.

I have recently acquired one of those kits partially built. I have
heard good things about that plane. Guess I need to get on the ball
and get to it.

What engine are you using??

 
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Tweek - 07 Sep 2006 03:00 GMT
> I have recently acquired one of those kits partially built. I have
> heard good things about that plane. Guess I need to get on the ball
> and get to it.
>
> What engine are you using??
> David - WD4JKH

Hi David,

I'm using an old O.S. .45 FSR ABC with tuned pipe and 9.5 x 6
airscrew... a fast bird. Don is now back in the hobby, and his website
is http://pulsefl.0catch.com/fm/ , if you're interested. I've had this
one since sometime around 1990. You can see pics of it on my website in
the R/C section at http://www.2vulcans.net/ .

Dave - WB4IUY
David Hopper - 07 Sep 2006 03:24 GMT
>Hi David,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>one since sometime around 1990. You can see pics of it on my website in
>the R/C section at http://www.2vulcans.net/ .

Thanks, Dave..  I'll check 'em out.

 
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Fubar of The HillPeople - 07 Sep 2006 05:19 GMT
Actually the Flying Machine site has moved to:
http://www.eagle-i.us/fm/

Looks like a neat plane.

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Dan
AMA605992
KE6ERB
http://www.fubar1.net
"I've heard the screams of the vegetables..."
Take out the "trash" to reply

>> I have recently acquired one of those kits partially built. I have
>> heard good things about that plane. Guess I need to get on the ball
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Dave - WB4IUY
gumby - 06 Sep 2006 18:38 GMT
> Hello all.
>  I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
> hinges.. what should i use?  I am building(assembling) a .40 twist and
> a funtana90S  both ARF'S..  WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION?
>  Thanks as always.
> gig

I have used CA hinges for years - this after a couple of "hinged type" broke
their pins.  Nothing catastrophic happened - but I've never experienced a
single problem with the "CA" type.
Gig - 09 Sep 2006 04:51 GMT
Hello all....
 thank you for ALL of the replies ....  I'm sorry  that i did not
have the time  to review all the messages sooner...  but i did read
them now.. I see  that everyone is not as hard on CA HINGES as i
thought.. I guess i just need to learn  to install them the right
way....  and thanks to one of the readers i now have a  step by step
method  to go by.(i'm sure it was the same method  i used anyhow
hahahaha)
 thanks for all of the help in this matter. i'm sure  when i build
these  i'll refer to these  notes... i'm just  worried that i will
leave too much space  on the  trailing edge  of the wing  installing
the airlerons....  but i guess thats where the  t pins  come in....
 thanks again
Gig

>> Hello all.
>>  I wanted to ask...  since CA hinges are not as gooad as other
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>their pins.  Nothing catastrophic happened - but I've never experienced a
>single problem with the "CA" type.
 
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