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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / December 2006The final word on Spinners vs. Nose Cones
Nose Cones and Spinners From Webster's Third New International Dictionary Nose Cone: A protective cone constituting the forward end of a rocket or missile and capable of withstanding the heat caused by reentry into the earth's atmosphere. Spinner: A streamline fairing usually of sheet metal and roughly conical or paraboloid in form which is attached to a propeller boss and revolves with it. Frank Schwartz >Nose Cones and Spinners > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >conical or paraboloid in form which is attached to a propeller boss >and revolves with it. Frank- Final word? Surely you jest. Your source is faulty. Most Spinners are plastic. As for the metal ones, some are turned from bar stock (TruTurn), some apprear to be cast (Kavan, the old Perfect brand). Just try to find one that is formed from sheet metal. And as for Nose Cones, according to Webster they are only found on ICBM reentry vehicles. Abel > And as for Nose Cones, according to Webster they are only found on > ICBM reentry vehicles. .......and people who have constructed cheap home-made disguises. Usually accompanied by unfashionably thick-rimmed spectacles and a wig. Worn as a beard. Steve >> Nose Cones and Spinners >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > cast (Kavan, the old Perfect brand). Just try to find one that is > formed from sheet metal. not on full sized ??? models maybe and if you type define:spinner into google it comes back with The nose cone which covers the hub of the propeller. if you believe tower hobbies that is > And as for Nose Cones, according to Webster they are only found on > ICBM reentry vehicles. > > Abel nose cone front consisting of the conical head of a missile or rocket that protects the payload from heat during its passage through the atmosphere > Nose Cones and Spinners > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Frank Schwartz There is never a "final word." The language and definitions of words evolve to reflect popular usage, whether correct or incorrect. If a word is given a new use and it becomes commonly used, it becomes "right." Semantic progression, it is.... Good flying, desmobob First of all, gentlemen, the dictionary does not specify r/c model spinners....of course....and to the fellow who said he challanged me to show him a model spinner from sheet metal...I can sell him one...about 5 inches in diameter...made from flat sheet and "turned" on a special machine. I once watched in the Fairchild factory, a spinner being made from a sheet of metal and pressed against a form with a large metal knob at the end of a long wooden pole.. as the metal rotated, the pressure of the tool formed it around the form. It was a "spun" spinner...no pun intended... and as for model airplane engines, most spinners are, agreed, made of plastic, and others turned on a lathe from metal, or cast and polished as the Kavan spinners are... We have no argument here... a spinner is not a nose cone and vice versa... Frank To see a nose cone being spun goto www.metalspinningworkshop.com click free preview > First of all, gentlemen, the dictionary does not specify r/c model > spinners....of course....and to the fellow who said he challanged me [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > versa... > Frank Interesting....however, let's be specific (look it up in the dictionary)..if it is on the a propellor, it is properly called a spinner. If it is on a rocket..it is a nose cone. If it is on the front of, say a P-38 it is merely the nose of the plane. Let's put an end to this thread. Frank Schwartz > There is never a "final word." The language and definitions of words > evolve to reflect popular usage, whether correct or incorrect. If a word is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Good flying, > desmobob So you have to conform to the popular, accepted useage of words. Calling a rotating fairing fixed to a propeller hub a "nose cone" is not conforming to the accepted useage of the term. Dan >> There is never a "final word." The language and definitions of words >> evolve to reflect popular usage, whether correct or incorrect. If a word [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dan Whatever... My post was just an observation on semantic progression. You guys can waste time and argue over "spinner vs. nose cone" all you want. :-) (I call it a spinner, BTW) Good flying, desmobob >My post was just an observation on semantic progression. You guys can waste >time and argue over "spinner vs. nose cone" all you want. :-) >(I call it a spinner, BTW) I wouldn't be surprised if the term, "spinner" evolved from Frank's observed method of making spinners. Metal spinning (forming metal over a sturdy form on a lathe) has been around for almost as long as the lathe - and that's ancient! Come to think of it, "lathe" derives from "lath," a strip of wood that was bent to provide the power to turn whatever was being turned. I think there are some spun metal spinners on the market today. Dave Brown, perhaps? Properly done, spun metal parts are of excellent quality. As for accepting a word that has drifted from its original meaning, I'm one of those curmudgeons who still calls springs in automobiles "shock absorbers," because that's what they do, and what you guys call "shock absorbers" I call "spring dampers," because that's what they do. I also call the namesake part of a disc brake system a disc, NOT a "rotor!" What do you call the namesake part of a drum brake system? A drum! Get the picture? And I rant whenever someone calls a single electric cell a "battery." Two or more cells used together are a battery, damn it! Talk about assinine nomenclature... Continents may drift for reasons beyond human control, but we CAN control silly use of language. Just being "accepted" or "common" doesn't make it sensible! Geoff the language grouch "Geoff Sanders" <geoffs@hevanet.com> wrote > Continents may drift for reasons > beyond human control, but we CAN control silly use of language. Just > being "accepted" or "common" doesn't make it sensible! > > Geoff the language grouch Whew!!, I'll say! <bfg>  SignatureJim in NC Of course the fact that no one knows precisely what *you're* talking about is of no concern ;-) >>My post was just an observation on semantic progression. You guys can >>waste time and argue over "spinner vs. nose cone" all you want. :-) [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Geoff the language grouch > Of course the fact that no one knows precisely what *you're* talking about > is of no concern ;-) :-) Language exists for communication. If people aren't understanding you because you are strictly following language usage rules, then you're not communicating! Of course, the same applies if they're not getting your point because you are not following usage rules closely enough.... =:-0 Good communicating, desmobob (cunning linguist) ;-) > Language exists for communication. If people aren't understanding you > because you are strictly following language usage rules, then you're not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > desmobob > (cunning linguist) ;-) Huh....................????? >> Language exists for communication. If people aren't understanding you >> because you are strictly following language usage rules, then you're not [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Huh....................????? mmmmmm.......tastes like tuna > >> Language exists for communication. If people aren't understanding you > >> because you are strictly following language usage rules, then you're not > >> communicating! Of course, the same applies if they're not getting your > >> point because you are not following usage rules closely enough.... =:-0 Basically, if a guy doesn't want to sound like a newbie, he needs to do the research, learn the terminology accurately, then use it accurately. Nothing identifies the greenhorn quicker than a bunch of misnomers. Dan "Duh," some will say, "What's a misnomer?" From http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1 861630477 we read: mis·no·mer [ miss nṓmər ] (plural mis·no·mers) noun Definition: 1. unsuitable name: a wrong or unsuitable name or term for something or somebody 2. calling something by wrong name: a use of a wrong or unsuitable name or term to describe something or somebody Misnomer example; "wing flappy things" for ailerons. Sad but true ;-) > >Robert Scott wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> point because you are not following usage rules closely enough.... > >> =:-0 Basically, if a guy doesn't want to sound like a newbie, he needs to do the research, learn the terminology accurately, then use it accurately. Nothing identifies the greenhorn quicker than a bunch of misnomers. Dan "Duh," some will say, "What's a misnomer?" From http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1 861630477 we read: mis·no·mer [ miss n?m?r ] (plural mis·no·mers) noun Definition: 1. unsuitable name: a wrong or unsuitable name or term for something or somebody 2. calling something by wrong name: a use of a wrong or unsuitable name or term to describe something or somebody Boy, you guys need a hobby or sumthing. Phil AMA609 i love these threads, so entertaining! >> Language exists for communication. If people aren't understanding you >> because you are strictly following language usage rules, then you're not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Huh....................????? >Good communicating, >desmobob >(cunning linguist) ;-) Were you attempting to communicate via your handle that you own either an old J.A. P. motorcycle, an old Mercedes-Benz, or a recent Ducati? If so, arcane though it is, it worked! :-) > >>Good communicating, >>desmobob >>(cunning linguist) ;-) > Were you attempting to communicate via your handle that you own either an > old J.A. P. motorcycle, an old Mercedes-Benz, or a recent Ducati? If so, > arcane though it is, it worked! :-) Ducati's been using desmodromic valve gear since 1957, if you consider that recent.... Yes, I have a Ducati 900SS. desmobob >>>Good communicating, >>>desmobob [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > desmobob Well I always wondered........ mk >Ducati's been using desmodromic valve gear since 1957, if you consider that >recent.... > >Yes, I have a Ducati 900SS. Quite a bit more recent than the other two! I've forgotten who the J.A.P. guy was, but I think he designed the system in the 1920s. >>Ducati's been using desmodromic valve gear since 1957, if you consider >>that recent.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Quite a bit more recent than the other two! I've forgotten who the J.A.P. > guy was, but I think he designed the system in the 1920s. I always wondered why the design wasn't more widely used.... I'm waiting for pneumatic valve actuation next. :-) Good flying, desmobob >>>Ducati's been using desmodromic valve gear since 1957, if you consider >>>that recent.... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Good flying, > desmobob It won't be long until larger four-strokes are camless and are using solenoid activated valves. Then the "cam profile" can be changed at will for various driving characteristics. Imagine a "Duntov" cam for V-8 engines when you want the sound, but dropping back to an extremely conservative, fuel saving profile for cruising on the Interstate. Ed Cregger > It won't be long until larger four-strokes are camless and are using > solenoid activated valves. Then the "cam profile" can be changed at will for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ed Cregger- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - That'll take some pretty strong solenoids. Valve operating forces absorb a small but significant percentage of the crankshaft's power. Perhaps they would use the solenoid to both open and close the valve, thereby eliminating the heavy valve spring? Dan >> It won't be long until larger four-strokes are camless and are using >> solenoid activated valves. Then the "cam profile" can be changed at will [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Dan The solenoids have been around for quite a few years now, Dan. That is how Cadillac made their Northstar 4-6-8 V-8 engines work. And it worked well with very little trouble. I think that was produced beginning in the early Eighties, but I won't make book to that effect. Ed Cregger >>> It won't be long until larger four-strokes are camless and are using >>> solenoid activated valves. Then the "cam profile" can be changed at will [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Ed Cregger Nits: The Cadillac L62 engine was foisted upon the unwitting public in 1981 - well before GM marketing gave birth to the "NorthStar" program name (1993, iirc). And while it didn't have the electromagnetic valve operating mechanisms you likely were thinking of (it used a camshaft, lifters, pushrods, rockers and springs just like all V8s of its time) the cylinder deactivation system did use solenoids to disable the valve lifters of the affected cylinders. While the engine proved to be a functional disaster, it doesn't condemn the concept of magnetically operated valves. I believe BMW (among others) has done much work in this area, and if the ICE remains so firmly embedded for another decade or longer, it wouldn't surprise me to see camshafts replaced by coilpacks... Cheers /daytripper >I always wondered why the design wasn't more widely used.... M-O-N-E-Y!!! 'Tain't cheap! >I'm waiting for pneumatic valve actuation next. :-) Check the Renault Formula 1 engines: > Renault <http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Renault> was the > first to deploy a pneumatic valve system in its RVS-9 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > <http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=CART> have banned them for > cost reasons. They actually found a way to put all their hot air to good use! ;-) Git yerself a Renault and you can become Pneumobob! :-D >> I always wondered why the design wasn't more widely used.... > M-O-N-E-Y!!! 'Tain't cheap! You're telling me? ;-) Ducati's desmo systerm is surprising simple and doesn't make the bikes any more expensive than 1930's technology H(ardly) D(angerous) designs. My 900SS SP uses an air-cooled, carbureted, 2-valve-per-cylinder engine design and was very affordable. The more modern bikes in the 916 era of evolution have liquid-cooled, four-valve-per-cylinder, fuel-injected engines and are considerably more expensive (and fast). >> I'm waiting for pneumatic valve actuation next. :-) > Check the Renault Formula 1 engines: Ducati has been building World Superbike-winning bikes based on the same basic engine with performance enhancements and displacement increases as the years pass. Beginning with the 851 and evolving into the 888, 916, 996, and 998, it was a long-term plan. Rumor had it the next big change would be pneumatics in the valve train.... =:-0 I lust for the new technology but am hopelessly in love with my old 'SS. Good flying, desmobob >> There is never a "final word." The language and definitions of words >> evolve to reflect popular usage, whether correct or incorrect. If a word [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dan You have to conform? To be understood? Do you think the the poster that used "nose cone" was not understood by the original poster? A thread of semantics is better than nothing! :) mk I see the drivel continues on this newsgroup. Try looking up the word spinner in the Oxford concise.It not suprisingly relates to rotation. I don't see too many rotating nosecones on aircraft ! > Nose Cones and Spinners > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Frank Schwartz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 29913 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! >I see the drivel continues on this newsgroup. Yup. Not worth your bother to drop in. Bye >>I see the drivel continues on this newsgroup. > > Yup. Not worth your bother to drop in. Bye Heh-heh. Ed Cregger |
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