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Is it possible to connect the second battery pack to Futaba r127df receiver?

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Tomasz.Hadam@gmail.com - 15 Oct 2006 11:22 GMT
One battery pack is connected straight to receiver's battery slot. I
thinking if it possible to connect second battery to the receiver (and
how to do it).

thanks,
Tom
JJVB - 15 Oct 2006 13:49 GMT
You can connect a battery pack to any one of the receiver slots.  Make
sure both packs are of the same voltage.  Each pack must be charged
independently and therefore requires its own switch.

John VB

> One battery pack is connected straight to receiver's battery slot. I
> thinking if it possible to connect second battery to the receiver (and
> how to do it).
>
> thanks,
> Tom
Ed Cregger - 15 Oct 2006 15:37 GMT
> You can connect a battery pack to any one of the receiver slots.  Make
> sure both packs are of the same voltage.  Each pack must be charged
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> thanks,
>> Tom

Put a diode in each battery's lead path, so that one battery is not trying
to recharge the other.

You could conceivably wind up with a situation where one battery goes bad
and begins drawing heavy current from the other battery. The current demand
could be high enough to damage the PC board lands in your receiver.

Ed Cregger
Red Scholefield - 15 Oct 2006 18:03 GMT
Before you go to the work of adding diodes (4 more solder joints) please
read the following.

The use of redundant parallel fight packs (packs may be of different
capacity but MUST be of an equal number of cells) is an excellent way to
increase the available flight time and significantly improve the reliability
of the on power system. The simplest means is to run two complete wiring
harness, switches and charge jacks from each pack and plug one into the
normal battery port and the other into an extra channel on the receiver. No
diodes or isolation is required (see below). This is simpler and more
reliable than some of the complex battery backup systems being offered on
the market. Whether you are using 4 or 5 cells is your option, remembering
that a 5 cell pack will provide more power to the servos but at the same
time discharge faster giving you less flight time.

Parallel charging of Ni-Cds is not recommended due to the tendency of the
cells to have the voltage drop off after they reach full charge. Should one
pack have a slightly different capacity than the other then it will reach
full charge sooner and the voltage will start to drop off allowing more
current to flow into this pack. The other pack may not then reach a full
state of charge. Repeated charge/discharge cycles under this parallel
arrangement causes additional charge unbalance. While you may experiment and
find that you get what appears to be both packs charged you will eventually
run into problems with this arrangement. As an extreme, take the case of two
packs, one having 250 mAh capacity and one having 600. The smaller capacity
pack will reach full charge much sooner assuming that there is at least an
equal "sharing" of charge current. As it peaks and the voltage declines
slightly due to the heating of the battery as the oxygen is recombined it
will begin to take more and more current to maintain a voltage equal to the
as yet uncharged pack and the voltage tries to drop further and demands even
more current to keep it up. This pack will then be taking nearly all the
charge current leaving the larger pack woefully short during what would be
perceived as a normal charge time like 16 hours.

Many pseudo battery "experts" put forth the argument that plugging two
battery packs into the same receiver without blocking diodes is NOT a good
thing, claiming that his creates a host of problems and the two packs will
end up fighting each other or "cross charging".

These concerns show a lack in the understanding of the charge and discharge
potentials involved in Ni-Cd cells. One pack cannot charge the another
(equal number of cells) as the discharge voltage of a pack can never be as
high as the voltage required to charge the other pack. For the doubters here
is an experiment: completely discharged one pack to 4.0 volts and then
connected to a fully charged pack having an equal number of cells. There
will be less than a 10% transfer of charge in a 24 hour period. Since shorts
rarely occur in fully charged packs the risk of one pack "dumping" into one
with a shorted cell are insignificant. A simple ESE preflight test would
detect a pack with a shorted cell.

While it is a fact that the typical failure mode of a battery is for a cell
to fail shorted there are some subtleties here that escape many people.
First,one of the major causes of "battery" failure has nothing to do with
the batteries themselves but rather with a switch or connector in the
battery circuit. The dual redundancy concept is to protect against the
failure having the highest probability - that being the circuit path from
the battery to the power buss in the receiver. Adding more components to
this path, like regulators and/or diodes isn't going to help the matter but
rather adds to the probability of failure.

Perhaps the following discussion on the nature of shorts will better help
the modeler understand.

While it is agreed that shorts are the failure mode in Ni-Cds batteries one
has to look further into the "when" of the failure.

A short develops in a Ni-Cd when conductive particulate bridge the separator
or the separator itself deteriorates to the point where it allows the
positive and negative plates to touch. Rarely does the short occur all at
once but rather building up a very small conductance path termed "soft
shorts". In a charged cell the energy in the cell will blow away any short
as it tries to develop. You've heard about "zapping" cells. The cell
actually zaps itself before the short can develop. Only in cases of severe
overcharge at high rates can the separator melt down to the point where the
plates contact each other (hard short). In this case the energy in the cell
then dumps and we have what is referred to as a hot steamer, the electrolyte
boils, nylon in the separator melts down and is forced by the steam through
the vent. On some occasions the vent is clogged by the molten nylon
separator and becomes inoperative causing the cell to rapidly disassemble.
So under normal circumstances a cell maintained at some state of charge is
much less likely to short than a cell that is completely discharged. It
should be noted however that the self discharge increases rapidly in cells
where there is a short building (high resistance -soft short) due to
separator deterioration and/or cadmium migration. One other shorting
mechanism is a manufacturing defect where the positive or negative collector
tab bridges the opposite plate. These usually fall out before the cells are
shipped or assembled into batteries.

Preflight procedure should involve checking each battery separately. First
check each with ESV through charge jack. You should get nearly identical
readings, then switch one on, check controls, switch off and then switch on
the other battery, check controls again, then turn both systems on and fly
with confidence.

Summary: Diodes are not required. Packs must be of the same number of cells.
Packs may be of different capacities. Individual charge jacks must be
provided for each pack (and not interconnected). Total capacity available
will be the sum of the individual capacities. Specialized chargers are not
required since standard packs (600-800 mAh AA packs)can be charged employing
regular system wall chargers (1200 to 1600 mAh should cover most giant size
projects).

Signature

Red S.
Red's R/C Battery Clinic
http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com
Check us out for "revolting" information.

>> You can connect a battery pack to any one of the receiver slots.  Make
>> sure both packs are of the same voltage.  Each pack must be charged
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Ed Cregger
the-plumber - 15 Oct 2006 15:44 GMT
Tomasz.Hadam@gmail.com Wrote:
> One battery pack is connected straight to receiver's battery slot. I
> thinking if it possible to connect second battery to the receiver (and
> how to do it).

Use a dual servo extension if all the Rx slots are taken

--
the-plumbe
Bill Fulmer - 15 Oct 2006 18:06 GMT
Uh-uh....It's not advisable to use servo extensions to carry the full
battery load of an RC system.  The light wire can handle the load of a
regular servo just fine, but the full load can cause a voltage drop just
when you don't need it...

Much mo' bettah to buy the heavy-duty connectors or roll your own...

Cheers,

Bill

> Tomasz.Hadam@gmail.com Wrote:
> > One battery pack is connected straight to receiver's battery slot. I
> > thinking if it possible to connect second battery to the receiver (and
> > how to do it).
>
> Use a dual servo extension if all the Rx slots are taken.
Charle & Peggy Robinson - 25 Oct 2006 20:32 GMT
> Uh-uh....It's not advisable to use servo extensions to carry the full
> battery load of an RC system.  The light wire can handle the load of a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>> how to do it).
>> Use a dual servo extension if all the Rx slots are taken.

 I think he meant a short "Y" cable.  Hitec sells one for just this
purpose.  For instance, the Hitec Electron 6 Rx has a shared slot for
battery and servo channel #6.  I agree that a heavy duty cable is desirable.

  CR
 
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