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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / November 2006using a buddy box
My trainer never used a buddy box with me, he was content to just hand the Tx back and forth. I have a friend that wants me to help him learn to fly but he feels more comfortable using a buddy box. I have the cord that I bought a couple years ago and never used, but I'm not sure of the details of how the system works. Does his Tx become the slave, and I just hold the Trainer switch on mine to let him fly and then release it when I want to take over? He turns his Tx on, and I leave mine off, right? Does it matter if we each have a Trainer switch? I'm sure this is simple stuff, I've just never done it before and I'd like to not have to figure it out before I meet him at the field. Thanks, Steve > ... Does his Tx become the slave, and I just hold the Trainer switch on >mine to let him fly and then release it when I want to take over? Yes. >He >turns his Tx on, and I leave mine off, right? Futaba, Hitec: MASTER (teacher's) TX: on. This is on the right frequency to fly the plane. STUDENT TX: off. JR: MASTER TX: on. STUDENT TX: some circuits come on when the training cord is plugged in. A Futaba/Hitec buddy box does not need to have a battery. A JR buddy box does need to have a battery. >Does it matter if we >each have a Trainer switch? No. > I'm sure this is simple stuff, I've just never done it before and I'd >like to not have to figure it out before I meet him at the field. Definitely plan to spend an hour at home fiddling with the setup. You want to make sure that both transmitters work the controls in the right directions and that there is no change in trim when you flip the switch for the student TX to take over. A lot depends on what kind of system you have. Strange things happen. Marty -- The Big-8 hierarchies (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk) are under new management. See http://www.big-8.org for details. > My trainer never used a buddy box with me, he was content to just > hand the Tx back and forth. I have a friend that wants me to help him [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Thanks, > Steve Ideally the box that you use as a buddy box would have the battery and crystal removed. His tx is the master since it is the one on his frequency. It is the one powered on. You would be holding and controlling the master while the student holds the buddy box that is not powered or transmitting. You would hold the trainer switch while he is flying, release the trainer switch when you want to take over. easy enough. You will need to make sure the control surfaces all move the same way with both boxes. If the buddy boxes controls are reverse of what the master boxes is, you need to change the control on the buddy box. Make sure the trims are matched up. On initial flight, you take off, trim out the plane, land, and set the buddy box trims the same. Then you can take off and get it straight and level and turn it over to him. Coach him through it and don't hesitate to take it back when you see him get in trouble. Hope all goes well. It takes a man with lot's of patience to be a trainer. >. On initial flight, you take off, trim out the plane, land, and set the buddy >box trims the same. I have a slightly different way to set the trims on the slave box. Both will work, somewhat. I say somewhat, because it always seems (to me) like looking at the plane's control surfaces on the ground is never quite accurate enough. It has to be set in the air, I think. If the trim on the student box is off even a little bit, it is much, much harder to teach the student how to fly. Before we go up, I set both boxes to look the same on the ground, even if they are wrong. I take off with the master, and fly around until I like how the trims are set. As I am changing trim, I tell the student to change trim, the same amount, and direction as the master box is being changed. Once the plane is flying straight and level on the master box, I tell the student not to touch anything. I flip the switch for a couple seconds, and observe the plane. If it is not flying straight and level, I take control back, and I tell the student to change the trim what I guess will fix it, like one notch up, one notch left rudder. I set up for another pass, and switch it back to the slave again, and observe, and then take it back, and tell the student what to change, again. Repeat as necessary, but usually only one or two fine adjustments are needed. Make a relatively low pass with cruise throttle setting, and listen to the motor RPM trim setting, then, go fly. I definitely agree with double checking on the dual rates (if equipped) and direction of servo movement while on the ground, before you start the first flight.  SignatureJim in NC >>. On initial flight, you take off, trim out the plane, land, and set the buddy >>box trims the same. > >I have a slightly different way to set the trims on the slave box. Both will >work, somewhat. ... I do a trim flight, land, turn off the motor. I adjust the buddy box trims until I hear and see no movement of the servos when I flip the trainer switch. It's worked OK for me for ~10 years. Marty -- The Big-8 hierarchies (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk) are under new management. See http://www.big-8.org for details. > Ideally the box that you use as a buddy box would have the battery and > crystal removed. snip I have only used non computer TX's for the slave What is the situation if the slave TX is a computer multi model type? Will it still function without the battery? Presumably the battery will be required to synchronise trims etc If the battery is required, then will it still function if switched off? And with the correct model? just wondering Trefor >> Ideally the box that you use as a buddy box would have the battery and >> crystal removed. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >just wondering All of this stuff has be to worked out brand-by-brand. I just bought a used JR 9303. Like some Futaba computer radios, it apparently gives more control over what the buddy box can and cannot do than my JR 8103. I actually use my 8103 as a buddy box with a JR 783 and had to create a model on the 8103 so that the 783 got the right input. I had problems matching a non-computerized Hitec buddy box to a computerized Hitec TX because the plane had flaperons. It was a mess. I never figured that out. I wish I had attacked the problem at home, because I missed a chance to give my brother some buddy-box time. Marty -- The Big-8 hierarchies (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk) are under new management. See http://www.big-8.org for details. | I had problems matching a non-computerized Hitec buddy | box to a computerized Hitec TX because the plane had | flaperons. It was a mess. I never figured that out. Really, what needs to be done is relatively simple -- both radios need to be programmed with the same mixes. Well, simple in theory, sometimes harder in practice. When you hit the switch, you're switching between the signal between the two radios -- it's all or nothing. Some newer/fancier radios now can do all the mixing in the master. At the very least, I know the Futaba 9C,8U, Multiplex Evo 9 and JR 9303 have this feature -- and others probably do too. With these radios, you just pick which channels you want to let the slave control (usually the standard four channels) and let the master do all the work. You can even do things like control the landing gear or flaps or throttle from the master and let the slave control the rest. (Of course, I suspect you knew all this already.) SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzied.us Her eyes were like two brown circles with big black dots in the centre. >| I had problems matching a non-computerized Hitec buddy >| box to a computerized Hitec TX because the plane had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >switching between the signal between the two radios -- it's all or >nothing. I feared that might be the case--I never sat down to work it out. I had hoped the computer radio would just read the gimbals in the buddy box, then do the right mixing. I was wrong. >Some newer/fancier radios now can do all the mixing in the master. At >the very least, I know the Futaba 9C,8U, Multiplex Evo 9 and JR 9303 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >work. You can even do things like control the landing gear or flaps >or throttle from the master and let the slave control the rest. >(Of course, I suspect you knew all this already.) I just got the 9303 this afternoon. Poking around in the menus, it looked like the Futaba 9-something system that my friend has, so I was feeling optimistic that it might work this way. No time to Read The Friendly Manual yet. :o) Marty -- The Big-8 hierarchies (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk) are under new management. See http://www.big-8.org for details. Applies to JR radios > > Ideally the box that you use as a buddy box would have the battery and > > crystal removed. Crystal is not required - but battery is needed > snip > > I have only used non computer TX's for the slave > > What is the situation if the slave TX is a computer multi model type? Works fine - when I first started using buddy box I made my JR8310 the master - after a while I thought I would change this so I (as a learner) got the benefit of my nice 8130 - so changed things around and put the crystal into the cheapy JR xmitter so it was the master and the 8130 was the slave - this worked just fine > Will it still function without the battery? Not the JRs > Presumably the battery will be > required to synchronise trims etc > If the battery is required, then will it still function if switched off? Yep, the slave has to be in the off position - only the master is switched on David Greetings RE: JR slave circuts Yes the slave TX switch remains off when used as a slave. The slave TX is required to have the battery pack installed. The OF /ON switch on JR radios has two sections. One turns on the RF section and the other turns on the encoder section. When you plug in the master/slave cable to slave it completes a circut to power just the encoder in the slave. Do not leave the cable plugged into a slave or master when not using it as it will discharge the battery. The JR master/slave cable is nothing more than a mono mini phone jack cable. Only the serial data flows through it, no power. Hugh What the others said, plus if you happen to have a 3rd pilot at the field, he could trim out the buddy box with the plane in the air in case it needed a little touch-up. Less for the student to worry about.. My .02 SignatureDavid - WD4JKH Valid email: no-spam0879@mindspring.com Thanks for the quick tutorial. At least now I know that I use his Tx and he uses mine, that would have had me going for a little while but now that I look at it makes perfect sense. I downloaded FMS for him and the actual plane he'll be learing on (Eastystar) and I'll be dropping a spare Tx and interface cord off to him tomorrow. He's been having a blast flying it with the keyboard, I can only imagine what'll happen when he uses a rea Tx, and then files a real plane. As always, thanks for the info... Steve >.... He's been having a blast flying it with the keyboard, I >can only imagine what'll happen when he uses a rea Tx, and then files a >real plane. Unfortunately, he will probably be hooked.. ;) SignatureDavid - WD4JKH Valid email: no-spam0879@mindspring.com All good stuff I've been training a novice who supplied his own buddy system, 2 old Sanwa/Airtronics TX's. This TX has a push button trainer switch on the left side. He is getting fairly good now, and my left thumb gets really sore pushing down on the button for 10 minutes continuous. The futaba switch type is much better, though even this can be tiring when it is cold Trefor > All good stuff > I've been training a novice who supplied his own buddy system, 2 old [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Trefor Sounds like it is time to cut the cord on this student. | This TX has a push button trainer switch on the left side. | He is getting fairly good now, and my left thumb gets really sore pushing | down on the button for 10 minutes continuous. | | The futaba switch type is much better, though even this can be tiring when | it is cold The `push button' vs. `toggle switch' button style for the trainer switch really isn't a brand thing. For example, the cheaper Futaba radios tend to have a (hard to push, IMHO) button, and the better (or older) ones have a much better toggle. SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzied.us I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. --Frank Sinatra >| This TX has a push button trainer switch on the left side. >| He is getting fairly good now, and my left thumb gets really sore pushing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >radios tend to have a (hard to push, IMHO) button, and the better (or >older) ones have a much better toggle. being fair more more expensive futaba';s don't have a dedicated trainer switch as such but share it with the spring loaded (and more usually) throttle cut or snap roll switch | >The `push button' vs. `toggle switch' button style for the trainer | >switch really isn't a brand thing. For example, the cheaper Futaba [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | trainer switch as such but share it with the spring loaded (and more | usually) throttle cut or snap roll switch For some radios. Not all. And this isn't specific to Futaba. And then to take things to the extreme, my Multiplex Evo 9 doesn't have a switch that says `trainer' at all. Instead, you pick a switch (any switch) when you program the radio. As a general rule of thumb, Futaba's older radios tend to have a dedicated spring loaded toggle dedicated to the trainer function. The newer, but low end, radios tend to have a push button that's difficult to use. The newer, high end radios tend to have a spring loadded toggle that is also assignable to another, usually snap-roll. SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzied.us We're two sticks and fate is rubbing us together. > | >The `push button' vs. `toggle switch' button style for the trainer > | >switch really isn't a brand thing. For example, the cheaper Futaba [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to use. The newer, high end radios tend to have a spring loadded > toggle that is also assignable to another, usually snap-roll. I also like the fact that with the Multiplex Royal Evo's, you can limit the functions that the student can control. I have the Evo 7 and it is different that it does have a dedicated trainer button on the left side. The programming on the 7 is also different but it does everything I need it to do. > I also like the fact that with the Multiplex Royal Evo's, you can limit > the functions that the student can control. I have the Evo 7 and it is > different that it does have a dedicated trainer button on the left side. > The programming on the 7 is also different but it does everything I need > it to do. You can also limit the functions on the higher end JR radios. PCPhill >> I also like the fact that with the Multiplex Royal Evo's, you can limit >> the functions that the student can control. I have the Evo 7 and it is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >PCPhill At the risk of AOL mode, my Field force 9 can do it too. PITA to setup as it reverts to snaproll / throttle cut when you turn it off and you have to re-turn on features you need. > | This TX has a push button trainer switch on the left side. > | He is getting fairly good now, and my left thumb gets really sore [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > radios tend to have a (hard to push, IMHO) button, and the better (or > older) ones have a much better toggle. ROFLOL! If you happen to use something that has a toggle switch, DO NOT USE A CHUNK OF FUEL TUBING TO REDUCE THE PREASSURE POINT ON YOUR FINGER! Bad things happen if you do. Those toggle switch type deals can hang up in the trainer mode and your student does something potentially terminal and you discover you cannot exit the trainer mode. Talk about exciting... I learned (real FAST) how to fly the airplane from the buddy box the student was holding. |
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