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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / February 2007Engine recommendation
Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my teedee .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). What are good engines in the .15 to .25 range today? I see a lot of old fox engines on eBay, are they a better deal then getting something new? Who makes good engines these days? > Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my teedee > .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). > > What are good engines in the .15 to .25 range today? I see a lot of old fox > engines on eBay, are they a better deal then getting something new? Who > makes good engines these days? Anything that works reliably is worth using. Apart from a few classics, most old engines don't fetch much secondhand. Mt limited forays into IC engines recently reveal that no one has ever accused an OS engine of being unreliable or of poor quality. Probably e engine of choice if you don't want to get involved in detail > Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my teedee > .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). > > What are good engines in the .15 to .25 range today? I see a lot of old fox > engines on eBay, are they a better deal then getting something new? Who > makes good engines these days? Electrics are getting quite attractive in that size of model. Performance has pretty much hit parity with sport motors, and there's a lot of folk out there who know the ins and outs. A motor, controller and battery will set you back quite a ways, but if you fly often you'll save it back on fuel. The only thing that you'll really miss out on is the noise and having to clean the guk off of your airframe at the end of the day.  SignatureTim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html >> Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my >> teedee .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > miss out on is the noise and having to clean the guk off of your airframe > at the end of the day. Ah, but that is half the fun! It's like using charcoal versus gas to BBQ. I'd never use gas to BBQ, and I'll probably never fly an electric plane :) I agree ... I finally broke down and bought a gas grill, but I kept my charcoal grill too. Now my wife and I both agree that food cooked over charcoal tastes so much better. Use the gas grill for emergencies only (or when I'm too lazy). With that said, I have an AP 15 Yellow Jacket. It is a great little R/C engine, easy to run and very reliable, low cost too. see http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LA5712&P=1 Marlowe >>> Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my >>> teedee .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Ah, but that is half the fun! It's like using charcoal versus gas to BBQ. > I'd never use gas to BBQ, and I'll probably never fly an electric plane :) >>> Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my >>> teedee .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Ah, but that is half the fun! It's like using charcoal versus gas to BBQ. > I'd never use gas to BBQ, and I'll probably never fly an electric plane :) It's funny how some people just don't understand why miniature IC engines are so much fun. As far as I'm concerned, saying that an electric airplane flies as well as a glow powered one is like comparing dry crackers to a gourmet meal. >>>> Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my >>>> teedee .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > electric airplane flies as well as a glow powered one is like comparing > dry crackers to a gourmet meal. exactly that's why we like the gourmet and you like the crackers ;-) >>>Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my >>>teedee .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Ah, but that is half the fun! It's like using charcoal versus gas to BBQ. > I'd never use gas to BBQ, and I'll probably never fly an electric plane :) Well, have fun then -- I fly both electric and glow, and enjoy both. SignatureTim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge: > Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my teedee > .49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). > > What are good engines in the .15 to .25 range today? I see a lot of old fox > engines on eBay, are they a better deal then getting something new? Who > makes good engines these days? The "old reliable", OS. Some newcomers that are good (in no particular order ) - Thunder Tiger Pro series, Evolution, and with somewhat mixed reviews (most reviews/letters/comments are quite good ) Magnum. In a 4 stroke engine you will not go wrong with a Saito (I have 3 Saito and 1 OS 4 stroke - all reliable runners ). In a 4 stroke, a 52 is ABOUT equivalent to a 25 - 30 2 stroke, however they swing a larger prop with ease. > The "old reliable", OS. Some newcomers that are good (in no particular > order ) - Thunder Tiger Pro series, Evolution, and with somewhat mixed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > equivalent to a 25 - 30 2 stroke, however they swing a larger prop with > ease. How about K&B engines? I don't hear much about those, but they have been around a long time. I've always used Cox for little engines, but Cox doesn't make any bigger ones. I'm not sure what they make these days. >> The "old reliable", OS. Some newcomers that are good (in no particular >> order ) - Thunder Tiger Pro series, Evolution, and with somewhat mixed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > around a long time. I've always used Cox for little engines, but Cox doesn't > make any bigger ones. I'm not sure what they make these days. There are some nice K&B engines in the lineup, although they are a bit quirky compared to the more popular makes. If you're accustomed to running Cox engines, you wouldn't have any trouble with the quirkier, old fashioned engines such as Fox, K&B and their ilk. >> What are good engines in the .15 to .25 range today? I see a lot of >> old fox engines on eBay, are they a better deal then getting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > somewhat mixed reviews (most reviews/letters/comments are quite good ) > Magnum. I've had mixed experiences with Magnum over the years, but I've very happy with my Magnum .15XLs. I think they're now XLA or XLS or some such, but I believe it's still the same engine. OTOH - if you want to buy a used Enya .15, I could make you a deal ;) Signature"Whatever will have been, will have been." - Douglas Adams, "Life, The Universe, and Everything" > In a 4 stroke engine you will not go wrong with a Saito (I have 3 Saito > and 1 OS 4 stroke - all reliable runners ). In a 4 stroke, a 52 is > ABOUT equivalent to a 25 - 30 2 stroke, however they swing a larger prop > with ease. There's that equivalence comparison again.... Saying that a 4 stroke 52 is ABOUT equivalent to a 25 or 30 2 stroke is true only if you are talking about a situation that favors a 2 stroke. If you have a sleek plane and you want it to go fast a 2 stroke will give you better performance, and you will get the impression that a 4 stroke has to be bigger to get the job done. If you have a biplane or other slow flying machine, a 4 stroke will do a better job of accelerating and climbing than a 2 stroke of similar displacement, in which case the 2 stroke would have to be bigger. I love biplanes and old timers, and I always power them with 4 strokes. Lightweight planes designed to go fast always get the lightest 2 stroke that will do the job. On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:31:03 -0800, "Ook" <Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam> wrote: >Many years ago, I used Fox .15 and .19 engines, and I still have my teedee >.49 and .51 engines (I paid $20 for my Fox .19 nib!). > >What are good engines in the .15 to .25 range today? I see a lot of old fox >engines on eBay, are they a better deal then getting something new? Who >makes good engines these days? If you liked the Fox .19, stick with it. Nothing 'modern' in a sport engine beats it in the key performance measure for any aircraft engine, power to weight ratio. The Magnum BB .15 comes closest if you can't find a Fox in good condition. Not many engines made these days in that size range that really perform, unless you get into $$$ exotics as used in FAI competitions. Downside to the Fox is noise level. If that is a big issue where you fly, You might want to try another muffler. I've used MVVS mufflers on Fox engines with good results, but haven't tried them for fit on anything smaller than the .40 - .50 range. A tuned pipe is another option that is both quieter and produces more power. Mac's Products *may* still have TP headers for the Fox. Abel > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:31:03 -0800, "Ook" <Ook Don't send me any > freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Abel I actually liked my Fox engines very much, but haven't had a lot of experience with other engines. The .19 screamed, and the .15 was pretty peppy. Noise? That is half the fun :). I'm looking at Fox engines on eBay right now, looks like there are tons of them available on a regular basis. Anyone know how well old Fox engines hold up? A fellow is getting back to building this kit 30 years later. Lost the plans. Anybody got a spare plan set? Marty SignatureBig-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.* See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups. > I actually liked my Fox engines very much, but haven't had a lot of > experience with other engines. The .19 screamed, and the .15 was pretty > peppy. Noise? That is half the fun :). I'm looking at Fox engines on eBay > right now, looks like there are tons of them available on a regular basis. > Anyone know how well old Fox engines hold up? As long as nobody has run them lean, and they always ran them with some castor oil in the fuel, they last a very long time. I still have a Fox BB ABC .40 that I have been running for the past 18 years, and I would not even want to guess how much fuel I have run through it. SignatureJim in NC >> I actually liked my Fox engines very much, but haven't had a lot of >> experience with other engines. The .19 screamed, and the .15 was pretty [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > years, and I would not even want to guess how much fuel I have run through > it. I hear stuff like this so often that I broke down and bought a pair of new (old stock; eBay) Fox .40 BBs and a .36 BB. I still haven't got them out of the boxes and onto the test stand.... Good flying, desmobob >>> I actually liked my Fox engines very much, but haven't had a lot of >>> experience with other engines. The .19 screamed, and the .15 was pretty [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Good flying, > desmobob Use the fuel that Fox recommends or you will not be a happy camper. Ed Cregger > Use the fuel that Fox recommends or you will not be a happy camper. I get whatever I can find local, that is 15% nitro, hopefully a synthetic and castor oil mix. I then add real model fuel castor oil, about 3 to 4 ounces per gallon. No rust, even after occasional long periods of storage. Be sure to find the articles about modifying the high speed needles, for the two needle carbs. That is the key to getting a good, no stumble transition and midrange. I bought mine cheap, from a club member who could not get them to keep running. He never did the modifications. He was amazed that I figured out how to make them run consistently. You would think that they could get the needles right, straight out of the factory, but they take some fiddling to get them perfect. Just so you know what I am referencing, it is the shaping of the tip and shoulder of the high speed needle valve. I chucked it in a drill, and used some fine sandpaper. Go really easy, with only a small amount taken off, then a try in the engine. If you take too much off, it will require a trip to the Internet to order a new needle. DAMHIKT! <G> SignatureJim in NC Check here for the needle mods, and just about everything else you'll ever want to know about Fox engines: > http://www.flitelinesolutions.com/ As for Cox engines, they're gone. They're selling out their remaining plastic toy engines and then there will be no more of the once ubiquitous Cox engines. Sad, but true. However, you can get the remaining engines for eight bucks while they last. Soooo, if you still want to fly 1/2A, buy now! Their price on Ebay will soon go outa sight. Geoff >Just so you know what I am referencing, it is the shaping of the tip and >shoulder of the high speed needle valve. I chucked it in a drill, and used >some fine sandpaper. Go really easy, with only a small amount taken off, >then a try in the engine. If you take too much off, it will require a trip >to the Internet to order a new needle. DAMHIKT! <G> > I ordered 5 of those Cox engines, not a bad price for a glow head and reed valve, piston, prop screw, ect... Thanks, mk > Check here for the needle mods, and just about everything else you'll ever > want to know about Fox engines: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>off, then a try in the engine. If you take too much off, it will require >>a trip to the Internet to order a new needle. DAMHIKT! <G> I just ordered 3. I'm tempted to order a half dozen more. And they are down to $6.99. Dang....it's the end of an era. I've built and flown dozens of c/l engines powered by the mighty .049. At the peak, I was flying twin fusalage dual engine planes I designed myself, and some of them actually flew well (some...didn't). I just opened a box that I sealed 10 years ago, and found a brand new teedee .051, never been run. And an 049 that was run on the bench for about 5 minutes and then packed away. I bought the set about 12 years ago and put them in a box and never got around to doing anything with them. Who else makes 1/2 engines? >I ordered 5 of those Cox engines, not a bad price for a glow head and reed >valve, piston, prop screw, ect... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>off, then a try in the engine. If you take too much off, it will require >>>a trip to the Internet to order a new needle. DAMHIKT! <G> > I just ordered 3. I'm tempted to order a half dozen more. And they are down > to $6.99. Dang....it's the end of an era. I've built and flown dozens of c/l [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Who else makes 1/2 engines? Quite a few people make .049s but AFAIK they're more than $6.99 each. Norvel, CS and Cyclon spring to mind. The Cox engines are/were great but they're a bit small for my current needs. I understood production of these was moving to China so maybe they'll become generally available again soon ? SignatureBoo >> Who else makes 1/2 engines? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > needs. I understood production of these was moving to China so maybe > they'll become generally available again soon ? Hi, Since posting that I came across a comprehensive guide to 1/2A engines at the following website : <http://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/f1j/> Hth, SignatureBoo >> Use the fuel that Fox recommends or you will not be a happy camper. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > off, then a try in the engine. If you take too much off, it will require > a trip to the Internet to order a new needle. DAMHIKT! <G> My Fox .74 was from a 1992 batch that had a known head button problem. Known after I had already traded it to a good friend without knowing it. I don't know if he ever had the head button replaced or not. You are right, a little sandpaper, gently applied, and then tried many times will provide you with the proper midraange. BTDT. Ed Cregger >>>> I actually liked my Fox engines very much, but haven't had a lot of >>>> experience with other engines. The .19 screamed, and the .15 was pretty [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Use the fuel that Fox recommends or you will not be a happy camper. Ed, I bought some honest-to-goodness 20% castor fuel to break them in with (probably not enough, though!). I also bookmarked the web pages explaining the needle modifications... Good flying, desmobob > I bought some honest-to-goodness 20% castor fuel to break them in with > (probably not enough, though!). > > I also bookmarked the web pages explaining the needle modifications... Probably not enough oil, or not enough fuel? It only took about 4 tanks to get it broke in enough to run reliably, then I flew it. It wasn't all that hard, as I recall. SignatureJim in NC >> I bought some honest-to-goodness 20% castor fuel to break them in with >> (probably not enough, though!). >> >> I also bookmarked the web pages explaining the needle modifications... > > Probably not enough oil, or not enough fuel? Fuel, judging by what I've heard about the long Fox break-in period. > It only took about 4 tanks to get it broke in enough to run reliably, then > I flew it. It wasn't all that hard, as I recall. Glad to hear that. I'm in a rural area and belong to a small club. I've never seen a Fox engine at the field. It will be fun to have something a little different. Good flying, desmobob >>> I bought some honest-to-goodness 20% castor fuel to break them in with >>> (probably not enough, though!). [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > never seen a Fox engine at the field. It will be fun to have something a > little different. ------------ My short term memory is shot, Bob. Which Fox engine did you get? The ringed engines of long ago took a while to break-in. Word has it from a friend that is very knowledgeable (Sport Flyer) that the more recent ringed Fox engines take much less time to break-in. The old lapped piston Fox engines were the ones that took a lot of work to bring them through break-in. But they were worth the wait and the trouble. Ed Cregger > My short term memory is shot, Bob. Which Fox engine did you get? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The old lapped piston Fox engines were the ones that took a lot of work to > bring them through break-in. But they were worth the wait and the trouble. Two .40 BBs and a .36 BB. I can't remember for sure, but I believe I researched them and found them to be of mid-'80's production. Good flying, desmobob > The old lapped piston Fox engines were the ones that took a lot of work to > bring them through break-in. But they were worth the wait and the trouble. That could be, and I don't have any experience with them. I only had the BB ABC .40 engines. I have considered getting one of the bigger ones, but never got around to it. SignatureJim in NC > Ed, > > I bought some honest-to-goodness 20% castor fuel to break them in with > (probably not enough, though!). > > I also bookmarked the web pages explaining the needle modifications... ------------------------ A few more ounces of castor wouldn't hurt for break-in, but I doubt if it would hurt anything to run the fuel "as-is" as long as you keep it fat. I bought a used Fox .50 BB a while back. It needs a good cleaning, then I'll see if it is in good enough condition to mount up the Davis Diesel Development conversion head. Word has it that this makes a great Diesel. Ed Cregger >I bought a used Fox .50 BB a while back. It needs a good cleaning, then I'll >see if it is in good enough condition to mount up the Davis Diesel >Development conversion head. Word has it that this makes a great Diesel. Let us know how it works. I've got two Fox .50s, and wouldn't mind trying a Davis head on one. Comment was made above about who still makes 1/2A sport engines. Norvel is gone along with Cox. The Chinese AP, which seems to be a Norvel clone, is still around. and there are some diesels from India still around if you look hard enough, but the old standbys (Cox, OK Cub, Atwood, Wen Mac, etc.) are all history. Check the thread on 1/2A engines on RCU for more sad details. Geoff >>I bought a used Fox .50 BB a while back. It needs a good cleaning, then >>I'll see if it is in good enough condition to mount up the Davis Diesel [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Geoff ------------- I hate to see the .049 engines disappear. I don't like being around them when they operate. The high pitched sound bothers my ears. There is no shortage of 1/2A engines on eBay, so I imagine folks will still be flying them for a long time to come. Ed Cregger >>> I bought a used Fox .50 BB a while back. It needs a good cleaning, then >>> I'll see if it is in good enough condition to mount up the Davis Diesel [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Ed Cregger its the little 010 that are worse they sound like mosquito's on speed |
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