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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / May 2007Y cable and flaperon function through computer Radio possible?
I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels instead .. which I would think would also let me do the "flaps" or flaperon full setting option.. where both ailerons can go into an up position at the flick of the switch? I am assuming if do use the Y cable.. I lose the flaps type ability via the TX? My tx is an older Futaba T6xa, which does have "flaperon" settings (i was able to get it to work with seperate aileron channels on the RX). Thanks > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I am assuming if do use the Y cable.. I lose the flaps type ability > via the TX? Yes. Flaperons work on two different channels..on the receiver. Can't off hand remember which. > My tx is an older Futaba T6xa, which does have "flaperon" settings (i > was able to get it to work with seperate aileron channels on the RX). > > Thanks > > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the > > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Show quoted text - So if I'm doing the Y adapter method.. I wont be able to do flaperons then? right >> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the >> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > So if I'm doing the Y adapter method.. I wont be able to do flaperons > then? >> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the >> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > So if I'm doing the Y adapter method.. I wont be able to do flaperons > then? True, you can't do flaperons with a Y lead.  SignatureThe Raven http://www.80snostalgia.com/downloads/batfink/sounds/wings.mp3 >>> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the >>> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > True, you can't do flaperons with a Y lead. On my 7UAP you had to use the normal aileron channel for one side and channel six (129DP) for the other side. Ed Cregger > >>> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the > >>> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What is considered the normal aileron channels? #'s? I forget.. Someone else said that if I use the Y cable.. I cant set my up/down aileron values to different values.. ie: up 15mm, down 10mm etc.. Is this true too? Thanks for the help guys. >> >>> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the >> >>> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Thanks for the help guys. Yes. That you can do with AVT. It has nothing to do with flaperons. What Tx do you have? mk On Apr 17, 10:34 pm, "MJKolodziej" <mjmwcsREMOVEKILLERCH...@htcomp.net> wrote: > >> "The Raven" <w...@flashmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Futaba 6xa.. I am going with channel 1 and 6 for the flaperon function via the TX (no y cable for now).. Flaperon setting is working fine as far as normal aileron motions go.. I cant figure out how to make the switch that says flap, cause them both to go up at same time though (or if its possible with this Tx). I'm having a problem with all 4 servos.. they groan at their maximum stick position (no physical binding). I've tried lowering ATV, adjusting the servo horn in a notch, adjusting the control surface horn.. the only way to not groan is to go down to say 25% ATV, which isnt realistic or usable... Cant seem to figure this one or the flaps out so far.. still investigating (havent done this in awhile). This is on my Multiplex Twinstar 2 that I've just nearly completed. > I'm having a problem with all 4 servos.. they groan at their maximum > stick position (no physical binding). Groaning may not be a sign of something bad happening. What you really want to know, is how much current at maximum they are drawing, with no load pressing on them. You need to make a test lead. Take a servo extension, and cut the hot wire, strip each side of the cut, and tin them so they do not unravel. Get a multi meter that can measure milliamps, but make sure it can go up to 2 amps, to protect your meter. Clip the probes on each side of the cut wire, and fire up the radio and receiver, and see how much it indicates your servo is drawing. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I'm sure someone will jump in with what you should expect to see. I think that around 3 to 7 milliamps (for a standard 48 oz. servo) is what you should see at extreme or at neutral, with no load applied. If you have too much drain anywhere along the travel, while moving very slowly, you should check things out, much more closely, because too much drain will kill your receiver battery too fast, and could cause a crash. It is a good idea to put this test lead between your battery and radio, ever so often (at least before a new ship flies, after a crash, and once a season, after that) to see if there is any binding going on. Move the controls from one extreme to the other, one at a time, and observe the changes. SignatureJim in NC > > I'm having a problem with all 4 servos.. they groan at their maximum > > stick position (no physical binding). [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > -- > Jim in NC Thanks for the tip.. I'll have to test this.. I do have an Astroflight super whatt meter.. (this is a side question too related).. The super whatt meter didnt come with deans connectors, so I cut the ones on there and put on deans.. I wasnt sure if i did the male/female on the right sides or not.. what the source/load would connect to.. it also has an "extension" style lead connector.. would this lead connector be how I could plug my servo into that somehow? Or is the only way to cut the red wire and use a different device like the multimeter (i dont have one)? So I basically get a cheap extension in this case.. stripping the red wire where the two join (not at the rx area?) I was hoping to use the astro meter somehow. In regards to using the astro in general for total watt / amp usage.. Again, not sure if i have the right ends on the right side.. but I plugged the load deans into the lipo battery connector and plugged the source deans into the other end of my deans Y cable coming off both motors.. I cranked up the throttle to full and it only read 12.25 amps (xtra 2829/10 8x4 props).. someone else had 18 amps total.. so i'm not sure how i read anything if my leads are reversed or if they are ok why the value is so low (too good to be true). Wattage was only 136. RPMS on my single prop was around 8222. > Thanks for the tip.. I'll have to test this.. I do have an Astroflight > super whatt meter.. (this is a side question too related).. The super [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I was hoping to use the astro meter somehow. I'm not familiar enough with the super whatt meter to advise you. It seems as though it is mainly used for electric motor use. The multi meters that would work well are less than 20 bucks, and are useful for all kinds of things. You should get one, and make life easy. You will find all kinds of uses for it, after you have one. About 15 years ago, there were a series of articles in one of the model magazines, about how to homebrew your own milliamp tool that could be used for this. It also had a setting that could be used to put a load on a battery (receiver) to see what the voltage is (checked with a multimeter) while the battery was under load, and you could dial in how much load you wanted to use. In the same line, you could set it for a certain load, and discharge your battery and graph the voltage ever 5 minutes, and get a good feeling of how your batteries were performing. Anyone remember those articles, and the dates of the magazines? I still have mine, and it is handy! SignatureJim in NC > > I'm having a problem with all 4 servos.. they groan at their maximum > > stick position (no physical binding). [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > -- > Jim in NC I have some results.. I hooked up the astro again.. .26A in use without moving any of the servos (total of everything combined though).. I then moved the right aileron to its max position.. it consumed 0.19 ontop of that value.. so 0.19Amps.. does this sound within range on amp usage (safe)..? I think this is about 2 milliamps right? I will have to get the multimeter though for sure. > I have some results.. I hooked up the astro again.. .26A in use > without moving any of the servos (total of everything combined [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I will have to get the multimeter though for sure. Not terrible, but definitely not good. Once the servo is at it's full travel, and held there, the reading should return to the same reading as you had to start with. Start looking for binding. If you are using a clevis on the servo arm, make sure the arm is not hitting the inside of the clevis. Check the freedom of movement of the hinges in the surface, without anything hooked up. Check the rod movement for binding. There is a problem somewhere. Now your job is to find it. Don't fly it until you do. SignatureJim in NC > > I have some results.. I hooked up the astro again.. .26A in use > > without moving any of the servos (total of everything combined [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > Jim in NC I was able to flex the control surfaces manually, after doing so they loosened up (foam, twinstar II).. this helped eliminate some groan.. One of my aileron control rods still has an issue though, it flexes to the point it pops when i move the stick, I tried everything to eliminate this one but cant seem to do so. As a side note again.. I'm still having the amps issue being too low, though a crude thrust test by balancing the nose on a scale, zeroing it out.. yielded 43oz of thrust on a 43.9oz plane.. i'm guessing this value is actually good or very good ? > I was able to flex the control surfaces manually, after doing so they > loosened up (foam, twinstar II).. this helped eliminate some groan.. > One of my aileron control rods still has an issue though, it flexes to > the point it pops when i move the stick, I tried everything to > eliminate this one but cant seem to do so. Oooo! Pops in control rods are not a good thing. You HAVE to find the problem before you fly this one. Where does it move when it pops? Do you see the rod jump sideways? Does the aileron move freely without the rod? Take the rod all of the way out, and inspect it. You may see a problem, visually. I'm having a hard time thinking of what could be wrong. Check how the rod attaches to the servo, though. My bet is something there. You might be able to tell by taking the rod off of the servo, and moving it back and forth, and seeing if it pops, then. If it does not, it is either the connection, or the servo. > As a side note again.. I'm still having the amps issue being too low, > though a crude thrust test by balancing the nose on a scale, zeroing > it out.. yielded 43oz of thrust on a 43.9oz plane.. i'm guessing this > value is actually good or very good ? How are the amps and thrust after it has run wide open for about 2 minutes? It seems counter intuitive, but the amps will go up after the voltage comes down because of the battery starting to wear down. Unless you go for a bigger set of props, or more pitch on the props, you are stuck with the amps where they are. Really, I would not complain about too few amps, if you are equal on the thrust and weight. It will not give your true unlimited vertical, but that is not what you should expect from that kind of plane. It should fly great, with those figures, and less amps will mean more flight time per charge. That is usually considered a good thing! <g> SignatureJim in NC > > I was able to flex the control surfaces manually, after doing so they > > loosened up (foam, twinstar II).. this helped eliminate some groan.. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > -- > Jim in NC UPDATE (thanks again for the help): The astro meter load/source leads CANT be reversed as i found out. Apparently, (this may sound dumb), you cant have the source/load leads reversed on the Astro meter.. I had them reversed, yet everyone thought this was fine and my readings would be no different. It did make a difference.. now everything is good (or mostly?)... My no props amps is 2.63.. the operating range, again, is 9-12 amps, peak 15 i think.. so according to the astro manual.. I should be b/w 5 and 10% of the max value, but they dont say if this would be 12 or 15? Any thoughts here? If you go with 12.. then my % is like 20% and according to them, the motor needs replaced (though brand new).. Even at 15 amps this is 17%. With props on .. my readings are: 23.3 amps, 11.48v, 267 watts.. this is 96watts per lb roughly (my plane weighs 44oz now, without camera equipment, probably 49 oz later with equipment), plus i havent painted it yet, so this may add some weight (?). According to the watts chart it falls just below 3d category, of course thats just a guessing guide and not reality.. I havent flown it yet.. but hope to in the next few days.. I still think she'll handle nicely. Again, someone else reported 18-19 amps on a 2500mah 15C battery, where i have 3200mah 20C.. does the 3200mah 20C make a difference in creating more amps? Side questions if you/anyone knows: the tritonJR.. how do you use a wall AC charger (alligator or similar) to charge a lead acid battery through the device (I normally use a power panel), i saw it does lead and thought down the road I could have to two chargers for lipos and one does the lead too. Can you charge a lead battery and use the lead battery at the same time for charging the lipos.. ie: can i leave the lead batteries AC adapter plugged in and swing by in house, and turn on the lipo charge function (if not using the triton to charge the lead battery) on my cellpro while its getting juiced? Do lead batteries need charged up right away after use to prevent killing it early in life (vs a jump start type battery where i think you should charge up right away after use)? > Can you charge a lead battery and use the lead battery at the same > time for charging the lipos.. ie: can i leave the lead batteries AC > adapter plugged in and swing by in house, and turn on the lipo charge > function (if not using the triton to charge the lead battery) on my > cellpro while its getting juiced? Yes, I do this type of thing all of the time. The lead battery helps act as a filter, to give nice straight DC power, as compared to many DC power supplies. > Do lead batteries need charged up right away after use to prevent > killing it early in life (vs a jump start type battery where i think > you should charge up right away after use)? When you say lead batteries, do you mean a wet lead, like a car or motorcycle battery? Wet lead batteries like to have at least a medium charge while sitting around, but gel cell lead batteries definitely want to be stored with a charge. Don't let your lead batteries sit around and get too cold without a charge. That is what kills most motorcycle and lawn mower batteries in the spring. An automatic trickle charger to keep batteries topped off is a wonderful thing. Just make sure that it does not over charge. How is the servo binding problem going? Have you figured out what is making the "pop" yet? SignatureJim in NC > Wet lead batteries like to have at least a medium charge while sitting > around, but gel cell lead batteries definitely want to be stored with a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > An automatic trickle charger to keep batteries topped off is a wonderful > thing. Just make sure that it does not over charge. Here is the battery i'm referring to: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL370&P=ML (a sealed lead acid battery). I'm assuming I should keep at least partial charge in it, if it sits idle. Any thoughts on how the triton JR would accept the plugs from a lead charger (AC adapter)? > How is the servo binding problem going? Have you figured out what is making > the "pop" yet? > -- Forgot to give an update here on that.. turns on the horn connectors were too tight, unable to spin (at least without wobbling).. so as a result it was torquing the rod. I fixed it and its all good now.. so thanks for the help. Ever heard of either of these totes: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLXB5&P=FR $54.99 (22 by 9.5 by 14.25) includes fan; 2 chargers or one power panel and one charger http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJBU2 2 charger support or one power panel and one charger $39.99 (18.6 L, 9.1 W, 12 H) Was thinking of getting the $39 one.. I think I should still be able to put lipos in one of the compartments with ceramic tiling for safety.. I'm just not sure if I need the fan that the Electro one has or not.. I suppose I could always add a small PC fan to the compartment where the lipos are. I figured I'd just make sure a few small holes were in the lipo charging area I create? Cheerio > Here is the battery i'm referring to: > http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL370&P=ML > (a sealed lead acid battery). I'm assuming I should keep at least > partial charge in it, if it sits idle. It will keep a nearly full charge, for very long periods of time. They have self discharge rates that are the lowest of most any battery I know of. They should be charged fully before storage, but not charged too long. They can be charged directly from a car battery, but not with the engine running. That is too much voltage and will destroy it very quickly. I charge mine with a one amp - automatic cutoff battery maintainer, like you can get at auto stores. Look for one with a switch for sealed battery, or deep cycle battery. > Any thoughts on how the triton JR would accept the plugs from a lead > charger (AC adapter)? DO NOT use an AC adapter to run a charger directly. The waveform is too crude, and could destroy the charger. You can use the AC adapter, or even better, an automatic cutoff charger like I mentioned, to charge the battery as the battery powers the charger. The battery will output clean power, attenuate the crude waveform from the charger, and keep the power to the charger while it keeps the battery full. >> How is the servo binding problem going? Have you figured out what is >> making [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > result it was torquing the rod. I fixed it and its all good now.. so > thanks for the help. Glad you got it taken care of. I'm happy to have helped. > Ever heard of either of these totes: > http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLXB5&P=FR $54.99 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > compartment where the lipos are. I figured I'd just make sure a few > small holes were in the lipo charging area I create? I'm a glow power kind of guy, so I don't have any knowledge of units like these. They seem pretty bulky, on first impression, though. A bit of general advise is to keep it simple, small and flexible. They seem like pretty huge units, and if you only need one aspect of the box, you are locked into toting along the whole thing. If you are handy, you could make your own system. I made a thin wooden box that holds two of those 7 amp hour batteries, and has three cigarette lighter type power outlet, fused, of course. It has a handle on top to carry the box with outlets. Everything I have that uses power uses the cigarette lighter type outlets and plugs, or uses adapter cords when it has to. My battery maintainer charger has a cigarette lighter plug on the end of it to charge the battery box, or I can charge from the car with a patch cord. My fuel jug box has a place to hang the power box on it, and a tray for the starter. It also has a place to hang the transmitter. All separate so I only carry the part I need. My charger for the transmitter and receiver battery is not in anything; just loose with a cigarette lighter plug on the end. Everything takes up the minimum amount of space, and you don't have as much to carry. I hope from this, you can get an idea of what you could whip up, that may have the flexibility to fit your needs much better than a manufactured box. It might be that you need one of those rolling tool boxes, and only load in what you need for the moment. I don't know; you will have to figure it out. You may want to "rough it" without the fancy box until you can determine what you need, then get organized. SignatureJim in NC > > Here is the battery i'm referring to: > >http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL370&P=ML [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > battery will output clean power, attenuate the crude waveform from the > charger, and keep the power to the charger while it keeps the battery full. I wasnt going to use the AC adapter (600mah one, i guess for faster charging ill look for the 1amp one you mentioned) to actually charge the lipos.. I meant use the ac adapter to power the TritonJR to then charge the lead acid battery (it says you can charge lead acid batteries with the TritonJR). At the same time I would use a seperate charger, my Cellpro, to charge the lipos while the lead battery is charging (cellpro powering off of the lead battery at the same time, i've heard this can be done). Thanks for the tips. > I wasnt going to use the AC adapter (600mah one, i guess for faster > charging ill look for the 1amp one you mentioned) to actually charge [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > charging (cellpro powering off of the lead battery at the same time, > i've heard this can be done). Once again, I read you saying that you are going to use an AC adapter, of the plain wall transformer type, to run your Triton. This could do PERMANENT damage to your Triton. You must use a filtered and regulated DC power supply to run a charger, not a regular AC adapter. A power supply of this type will not be cheap. SignatureJim in NC Yahama makes an adapter used on many of it's keyboards that is regulated and filtered. Bought one the other day for 14.95 before store closing discount (Comp USA.) I actually paid about $5.00. You do have to stuff a small diameter copper wire in the center of the PS plug to make good contact with some of the LiPo charger sockets. > > I wasnt going to use the AC adapter (600mah one, i guess for faster > > charging ill look for the 1amp one you mentioned) to actually charge [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > power supply to run a charger, not a regular AC adapter. A power supply of > this type will not be cheap. >>>> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the >>>> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > On my 7UAP you had to use the normal aileron channel for one side and > channel six (129DP) for the other side. That sounds similar to most other modern radios but you would be hard pressed to do that with a Y lead on a single channel. SignatureThe Raven http://www.80snostalgia.com/downloads/batfink/sounds/wings.mp3 >>>>> > I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the >>>>> > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > That sounds similar to most other modern radios but you would be hard > pressed to do that with a Y lead on a single channel. ------------ The point that I failed to make was that it could not be done with a Y-connector. Ed Cregger >I was debating whether to use my Y splitter or just go into the > computer Futaba TX and set flaperon settings via using both channels [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I am assuming if do use the Y cable.. I lose the flaps type ability > via the TX? That sounds correct to me. Use a Y cable for left/right aileron servos and you won't have flaperon capability. Put them on separate channels and most computer radios will be able to do flaperon. > My tx is an older Futaba T6xa, which does have "flaperon" settings (i > was able to get it to work with seperate aileron channels on the RX). That may be a standard feature of the radio, which I'm not familiar with. An alternative if no flaperon specific capability exists is to mix two channels together...which may have some limitations. SignatureThe Raven http://www.80snostalgia.com/downloads/batfink/sounds/wings.mp3 |
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