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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / September 2007Oops! NEw landing gear required.
I had a little accident with the .40 Ultra Stick during take off and snap-rolled it about four feet above the ground. Shattered much of the front end, but it is repairable. Here's the question: the landing gear was torn off. Actually the hardwood piece the aluminum landing gear was screwed to with blind nuts was ripped out of its foundation. Since this is not a new plane, I suspect this was not the first time this happened. I thought about epoxying a piece of 1/4" plywood into the channel for the mounting block and mounting the landing gear to that, but thought I'd better seek opinions first. I suspect that might be the wrong move if that piece is supposed to break in several pieces during impact. Assuming I use a piece of hardwood like the one that was previously fitted, is there a good way to mount/glue it to the frame of the plane to allow it to break away and still maintain enough strength for slightly rough landings? Is there a place on the net that might offer a good explanation of the subject. I have Higley's books, but haven't found an appropriate description. Harlan > I had a little accident with the .40 Ultra Stick during take off and > snap-rolled it about four feet above the ground. Shattered much of the front [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Harlan My favorite way to make breakaway landing gear is to mount it with nylon bolts. I've torn off nylon-mounted gear a few times with no damage to the plane. The trick is to use bolts that are small enough to break. >> I had a little accident with the .40 Ultra Stick during take off and >> snap-rolled it about four feet above the ground. Shattered much of the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > bolts. I've torn off nylon-mounted gear a few times with no damage to the > plane. The trick is to use bolts that are small enough to break. Yeah, I hate it when my 1/4-20 nylon wing bolts get protected by the airplane coming apart all around them. BTDT >>> I had a little accident with the .40 Ultra Stick during take off and >>> snap-rolled it about four feet above the ground. Shattered much of the [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > BTDT I've never understood the logic of making break away landing gear. Why not just practice landing? It's lots more fun and reduces or eliminates the need for problematic break away landing gear. Ed Cregger, NM2K >> Yeah, I hate it when my 1/4-20 nylon wing bolts get protected by the >> airplane coming apart all around them. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ed Cregger, NM2K I guess I agree, Ed, because I just repaired it so it was as solid as I could make it. I was out to the field this evening and one of the guys had a Four Star that is apparently built in such a way that the gear breaks away if the landing is too rough. The guy ripped the gear off the plane in a semi rough landing tonight and commented that its kind of a pain in the butt. I, therefore, built mine to not break away. Harlan > I've never understood the logic of making break away landing gear. Why > not just practice landing? It's lots more fun and reduces or eliminates > the need for problematic break away landing gear. Its for while you are practicing, Ed ;-) I got caught the other day, flying a model I normally simply land dead stick in calm air. Some guys wanted to see it and it was turbulent. It stalled at 10 feet and smashed its nose, largely because the landing gear ripped out the part of the model it was attached to. Subsequently I went back on the sim and tried it again after repairs, and determined that it needed to be brought in under power, airspeed substantially above stall speed, and 'flown' onto the ground, under those conditions. > Ed Cregger, NM2K > ... Subsequently I went back on the sim and tried it again after repairs, >and determined that it needed to be brought in under power, airspeed >substantially above stall speed, and 'flown' onto the ground, under >those conditions. There is some rule that full-scale pilots use for landing in gusty conditions. I don't know exactly what it is. Something like adding enough airspeed to compensate for the worst possible gust that might be expected. You seem to have discovered that rule for yourself. Marty  SignatureBig-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.* See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups. >> ... Subsequently I went back on the sim and tried it again after repairs, >> and determined that it needed to be brought in under power, airspeed [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You seem to have discovered that rule for yourself. Yup. And when I proudly announced it., everyone was quick to point out that they indeed flew like that all the time, and surely everybody knew that?.. Humiliating isn't it? :-) > Marty >> ... adding >> enough airspeed to compensate for the worst possible >> gust that might be expected. >> You seem to have discovered that rule for yourself. >Yup. And when I proudly announced it., everyone was quick to point out >that they indeed flew like that all the time, and surely everybody knew >that?.. >Humiliating isn't it? Only if we view learning as a zero sum game. You learned something important and valuable and you shared it with us. WELL DONE! Marty SignatureBig-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.* See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups. > There is some rule that full-scale pilots use for landing > in gusty conditions. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You seem to have discovered that rule for yourself. I think it is adding 1/2 the difference between the steady wind and the gust speed. If you had 10 gusting to 20, you would add 5 to your landing speed. I'm sure there are some full sized airplane flyers that will correct that, if it is not the right formula. <g> SignatureJim in NC >> There is some rule that full-scale pilots use for landing >> in gusty conditions. >I think it is adding 1/2 the difference between the steady wind and the gust >speed. If you had 10 gusting to 20, you would add 5 to your landing speed. That sure sounds about right. >I'm sure there are some full sized airplane flyers that will correct that, >if it is not the right formula. <g> Very likely. And we can't be that precise, given the general lack of telemetry from our planes. I will try to keep the rule in mind that I need more speed in gusty conditions. I think I knew that, but I appreciate the reminder. Marty SignatureBig-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.* See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups. > I've never understood the logic of making break away landing gear. Why > not just practice landing? It's lots more fun and reduces or eliminates > the need for problematic break away landing gear. > > Ed Cregger, NM2K I don't like landing gear that breaks off under normal landing conditions, and most of the time I have solidly mounted landing gear anyway. One time in particular, however, I built an Airmeister biplane with nylon bolts holding the landing gear on. The elevator failed because of a cheap clevis, so I pulled it back to idle and brought it in kind of fast over a plowed field. The model suffered nothing more than broken bolts, a failed clevis, and a fair amount of dirt. Since then I haven't had many landing gear problems, and mostly I don't crash or land hard. But when I've cracked up planes it's mostly been because of some catastrophic failure causing total destruction. | I don't like landing gear that breaks off under normal landing | conditions, and most of the time I have solidly mounted landing gear | anyway. The problem with a break-away landing gear is that if it does break away, it tends to tear up the tail or in an extreme case, the wing -- on it's way to tearing up the tail. That's how my US40 died ... I did a downwind landing due to a fun-fly and while my landing was just fine, there was a hole I didn't see, which ripped off the landing gear, which tore up the wing, then the tail ... It was repairable, but I gave it all away rather than bother ... So if you do use nylon bolts to break away, you want them to break before the rest of the plane does, but not too easy -- or they'll do more damage than they prevent. I don't know if it's worthwhile or not. In any event, the US40 landing gear mounting location is known to be weak, and it tends to break just like the original poster's did, even in landings that weren't that bad. So they tend to get beefed up early in the plane's career. Another weak part is the stock engine mount. At least the original one ... SignatureDoug McLaren, dougmc@frenzied.us The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. - Hubert H. Humphrey > So if you do use nylon bolts to break away, you want them to break > before the rest of the plane does, but not too easy -- or they'll do > more damage than they prevent. I don't know if it's worthwhile or > not. I like to make my landing gear mounting very strong, but make the landing gear "bendable" but only in the very hardest "carrier style" landings, known to most people as "crashes." ;-) SignatureJim in NC >I've never understood the logic of making break away landing gear. Why >not just practice landing? It's lots more fun and reduces or eliminates >the need for problematic break away landing gear. > >Ed Cregger, NM2K Ohhh,,, Ohhh,,, I KNOW this one ;-) you make a breakaway connection so that at the end of a perfect flight, you can grease a landing, and hit the ONLY gopher hole on the runway which causes the landing gear to shear off, This drops the nose into the ground breaking a nice $10 prop, in the meantime, the gear flips over on it's back just in time for the wheels to rip a nice big hole in the bottom of the wing on both sides of the fuselage, which flips the gear over a couple more times so that it can rake and scrape a bunch more covering off the bottom of the fuselage. THAT is why you put break away landing gear on your plane, BTDT, four star 60 bob >>I've never understood the logic of making break away landing gear. Why >>not just practice landing? It's lots more fun and reduces or eliminates [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > bob --------------------------- Ouch! I hear the voice of experience in your words. <G> Ed Cregger >>> My favorite way to make breakaway landing gear is to mount it with nylon >>> bolts. I've torn off nylon-mounted gear a few times with no damage to the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Ed Cregger, NM2K Ed, Most of us aren't fortunated enough to have a perfectly smooth runway , and , I don't know anyone who "greases" them in all the time. Break away lamding gear with nylon bolts is the way to go , IMO. Much rather have the landing gear break away than to rip the bottom aut of the airplane. Many of us at the field where I fly use this setup. It works for us.. Ken >>>>My favorite way to make breakaway landing gear is to mount it with nylon >>>>bolts. I've torn off nylon-mounted gear a few times with no damage to the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Ken Should you find that your nylon bolts still will not break, but remain in place with the whole plywood piece and then some still coming off, drill a fine hole straight down the bolt. Some even make a little "nick" in the bolt with a fine file.. Todays ARF planes seem to need this feature more than ever before, what with heavier planes and Schnürle 46 engines up front where there once used to be cross flow 20s... Heavier & faster approaches every season, and bigger and bigger garbage can at the field ! Staffan Sweden >> http://tmfk.org << > Ed, > Most of us aren't fortunated enough to have a perfectly [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ken Now that you mention it, that's why I had breakaway gear on my Airmeister years ago, but I haven't used it since. We used to fly from grass fields back then, but for the past ten years I have been flying from a very nice paved runway in Kansas City. I might have to go change my ways again, depending on where I end up flying here in Springfield. I haven't gotten into the local scene yet.... >> Ed, >> Most of us aren't fortunated enough to have a perfectly [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I might have to go change my ways again, depending on where I end up > flying here in Springfield. I haven't gotten into the local scene yet.... I haven't even *used* my landing gear yet. All I have to fly in is a hay field. >Now that you mention it, that's why I had breakaway gear on my >Airmeister years ago, but I haven't used it since. We used to fly from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I might have to go change my ways again, depending on where I end up >flying here in Springfield. I haven't gotten into the local scene yet.... A paved runway??? FOR REAL?? You have actually seen one?? I've heard of them, but never actually SEEN one, I thought they were merely legendary beasts like the Yeti and the Sasquatch. Actually, for grass, I just use the BIGGEST foam wheels I can fit on the plane without looking totally ridiculous, (slightly ridiculous doesn't bother me) ( I use 3 inch foamies on my little 15 oz 36 inch wingspan electric) I make sure that the landing gear has a fair amount of spring or give in it, and go forth and play. Having said all that, I fly off a pretty rough strip, and don't have any landing gear problems other than occasionally having to re-form the legs after a particularly hard bounce. >> Now that you mention it, that's why I had breakaway gear on my >> Airmeister years ago, but I haven't used it since. We used to fly from [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I've heard of them, but never actually SEEN one, > I thought they were merely legendary beasts like the Yeti and the Sasquatch. The local RC pilots in KC are spoiled. Seriously, if any of you get a chance to stop in on your way through Kansas City you should. It's one of the best airfields I've ever seen. It has a huge paved runway, and a nicely mowed grass one right next to it. I'm really going to miss it. |
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