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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / July 2008



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2 parts wing

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dan - 17 Jul 2008 14:20 GMT
Hi
I'm about to build a new and big delta rc model.
in order to connect the two parts of the wing i'm planing to use
an alum' hose. can you help me decide where to put it?
Tnx
Dani
Martin X. Moleski, SJ - 17 Jul 2008 15:54 GMT
>I'm about to build a new and big delta rc model.
>in order to connect the two parts of the wing i'm planing to use
>an alum' hose. can you help me decide where to put it?

In the thickest part of your airfoil.

About 25% of your Mean Aerodynamic Chord.

http://moleski.net/rc/WingMAC.htm

                Marty
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dan - 17 Jul 2008 16:46 GMT
On Jul 17, 5:54 pm, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole...@canisius.edu>
wrote:

> >I'm about to build a new and big delta rc model.
> >in order to connect the two parts of the wing i'm planing to use
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
> Seehttp://www.big-8.orgfor info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

from what I understand from the site, this is the location of the CG.
and you recommend to locate the hose at the thickest part of the
airfoil.
what about forces? is it Necessarily the point with the maximum force
on it?
Tnx
Tim Wescott - 18 Jul 2008 06:00 GMT
> On Jul 17, 5:54 pm, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole...@canisius.edu>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> on it?
> Tnx

If the wing has even taper, yes.  For a delta maybe not, but you'll be
close enough.

The important part is that the forces on the wing are transmitted to the
tube through appropriately sized members -- you don't want things too
heavy, and you don't want a wing ripping half way off of the tube in flight.

What's your wing structure?  If it's spars & ribs then make sure the
spars capture the tube well.  If it's foam then you probably want a
false rib at each wing root and another one at each end of the tube in
the wing.

Signature

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott - 18 Jul 2008 06:09 GMT
>> On Jul 17, 5:54 pm, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole...@canisius.edu>
>> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> false rib at each wing root and another one at each end of the tube in
> the wing.

Suggestion:  Build a couple of examples of your tube-wing joint, and
test them to destruction.  You want your wing falling apart at about the
same time the tube is bending -- sooner and you're not getting maximum
use out of the tube, later and you're too heavy.

And if it's light as a feather and still breaking the tube -- either
congratulate yourself, or get a lighter tube!

Signature

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Martin X. Moleski, SJ - 18 Jul 2008 14:39 GMT
>>>> I'm about to build a new and big delta rc model.
>>>> in order to connect the two parts of the wing i'm planing to use
>>>> an alum' hose. can you help me decide where to put it?

>>> In the thickest part of your airfoil.

>>> About 25% of your Mean Aerodynamic Chord.

>> from what I understand from the site, this is the location of the CG.
>> and you recommend to locate the hose at the thickest part of the
>> airfoil.

>> what about forces? is it Necessarily the point with the maximum force
>> on it?

>If the wing has even taper, yes.  For a delta maybe not, but you'll be
>close enough.

>The important part is that the forces on the wing are transmitted to the
>tube through appropriately sized members -- you don't want things too
>heavy, and you don't want a wing ripping half way off of the tube in flight.

The actual center of pressure on ordinary aircraft is ... uh ... hold
on a second while I google ...

Uh, I think it is behind the CG in intrinsically stable designs:

"The center of gravity must lie ahead of the neutral point for positive stability
(negative static margin). If the center of gravity is behind the neutral point,
the aircraft is longitudinally unstable (the static margin is positive), and
active inputs to the control surfaces are required to maintain stable flight.
Ultimately, the position of the center of gravity relative to the neutral point
determines the stability, control forces, and controllability of the vehicle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_static_stability

When a plane is set up this way, it will tend to fall nose-first after
a straight-ahead stall, which helps with stall recovery.  

So the "ordinary" spar location (thickest part of the airfoil, normally
around 25% to 33% of the MAC) is not necessarily where the strongest
forces are applied.  It is where you can get the best tradeoff that
Tim is talking about: strong enough to hold everything together;
light enough to let you get off the ground and have fun flying.

Somewhere in my files, I've salted away a very beautiful advertisement
for a built-up jet wing.  It shows how the designer created a spar-and-rib
design for a two-piece swept wing.  It's a work of art and a thing of
beauty.  AH!  Here it is:

http://www.bvmjets.com/pages/kits/balsabandit.htm

What a great design!

                    Marty
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MJKolodziej - 19 Jul 2008 00:27 GMT
>>>>> I'm about to build a new and big delta rc model.
>>>>> in order to connect the two parts of the wing i'm planing to use
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
>        
            Marty

So, is a jet in your future Marty?
mk
Martin X. Moleski, SJ - 19 Jul 2008 01:24 GMT
>> http://www.bvmjets.com/pages/kits/balsabandit.htm

>> What a great design!

>So, is a jet in your future Marty?

Not that I can tell.  But you never know.  :o)

            Marty
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dan - 20 Jul 2008 15:37 GMT
On Jul 19, 3:24 am, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole...@canisius.edu>
wrote:
> >>http://www.bvmjets.com/pages/kits/balsabandit.htm
> >> What a great design!
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
> Seehttp://www.big-8.orgfor info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

Tnx for all the answers
I'll use the information
dan
 
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