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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / January 2009



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Guillow's Rubber Powered Models - did you ever make one?

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Admin - RCGearing.com - 31 Dec 2008 03:32 GMT
Hi,

Tell me about the Guillow's model that you glued together and how it
flew.

Thanks,

Jeff
Martin X. Moleski, SJ - 31 Dec 2008 05:01 GMT
>Tell me about the Guillow's model that you glued together and how it
>flew.

Fokker D7
SE-5
P-40
P-47
Bonanza--with a Cox 0.010 on very short lines

These were the first models I ever built.  Dad bought
them for me and got me started.  He didn't know how
to fly them and neither did I.

I did take the SE-5 out one day and that brought my
neighbor out of his house.  He taught me a lot and
loaned me a free flight Cub that he built when he
was 16.  He took it back when he got into radio
control.

                Marty

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Geezer - 31 Dec 2008 14:33 GMT
>>Tell me about the Guillow's model that you glued together and how it
>>flew.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Marty

I had a Cub, a Great Lakes Biplane, and a WWII plane (maybe a
Dauntless? too long ago to remember...).  The Cub flew like a dream
once it was properly balanced, thanks to the help of an old timer who
watched me struggle and stepped in with some of the best trimming advice I
ever got.
The bipe never flew well because of wing incidence/warp issues and the
warbird was
just too darn heavy to fly right with rubber power.

A short while later, I built a Cessna Bird Dog kit and followed the old
timers advice
right from the start (careful wood selection, weigh the parts before and
during building,
build straight straight straight and then check for straightness again....
That one flew beautifully the first time.

Now ya made me want to go out and get another one!

Geezer
Admin - RCGearing.com - 01 Jan 2009 05:34 GMT
"build straight straight straight and then check for straightness
again.... "

Straightness is key, indeed. Got any tricks of the trade for
horizontal and vertical straightness?
Tim Wescott - 01 Jan 2009 18:37 GMT
> "build straight straight straight and then check for straightness
> again.... "
>
> Straightness is key, indeed. Got any tricks of the trade for horizontal
> and vertical straightness?

Get or make a _really flat_ building board.  I use a piece of plywood for
a base that I check with a straightedge and level, and shim to my bench
to assure flatness.

Get some _really square_ squares.  I was fortunate enough to score a
bunch of brass weights for a full-size aerospace application that happen
to be machined square -- they're square enough that I can sit 'em on that
flat building board and they give me a vertical reference, and heavy
enough that they stay put.

Come to think of it, cheap 1-2-3 blocks from a machinist supply (like
Enco Tools) would be the bee's knees for this sort of thing.  I dream of
getting a machinist's granite slab for building.  It's kinda hard to put
a pin into, but oh boy is it flat and rigid.

Signature

Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
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Geezer - 01 Jan 2009 22:02 GMT
> "build straight straight straight and then check for straightness
> again.... "
>
> Straightness is key, indeed. Got any tricks of the trade for
> horizontal and vertical straightness?

Well, the guy who taught me my first tricks (Phillip..never call him
Phil...his name was Phillip,
even to us kids) taught me to build on a ceiling tile. Those acoustic tiles
that look like they're
made from shredded, grey cardboard. Place it, finished side down, using
double sided tape, on a piece of 3/4" plywood cut to size. Pin the plans to
the tile and cover the plans with Saran Wrap.

Once he found out that my dad was a machinist, he was thrilled to death and
told me that most
of my problems were already solved. Before cutting out any bulkheads, mark
vertical and
horizontal lines on every piece, to be used as ledger references during
building. Nothing earth
shattering, just the prep work that an impatient kid would overlook. To make
a really long
story short, he taught me how to ask my busy, overworked dad for help and a
lesson in basic
shop setup and job prep.

One thing that struck me as strange was when he told me to prepare every
piece for the wings
and horizontal stab and weigh them all before even starting assembly.
Take the spars, leading and trailing edges, ribs, hinges, etc. for the left
side, and take the same
parts for the right side...and weigh them on a balance scale...to be sure
that one sides weight matched the other sides weight.  If they didn't match,
start swapping parts side-to-side to see
if a balance can be achieved. Only after that should parts be trimmed/sanded
to achieve balance.
He also taught me about balsa grain, density, and stiffness. As a kid, that
was something that
never occurred to me, but with a small model, it's something that's very
important.
Start balanced, finish balanced.

Another trick he taught me was to chech for runout on the spars and fuselage
stringers.
Spray a stringer with water, wait a while and see if it twisted while wet or
after drying. If it did,
replace it with one cut from a nice straight-grained piece of balsa.  In
other words he told
me to expect to throw away about 30% of a Guillows' kit balsa and replace it
with
lighter/straighter/stiffer where needed.

Phillip showed me how to use modeling clay as weight to hold things down
flat on the building board
while the glue dried, how to weight/pin down a wing while the tissue is
being applied and drying...

Basically, just plain ole'good building practice. Nothing earth shattering,
just the basics.

The biggest lesson:  patience, plain and simple. And, he taught me how to
talk to my dad.

Geezer
Admin - RCGearing.com - 01 Jan 2009 22:44 GMT
> Geezer

So, to sum it all up:

Building Straight requires:

#1 Flat work board
#2 Flat Weights to hold down parts while glueing?
#3 Weigh parts
Geezer - 01 Jan 2009 23:16 GMT
>> Geezer
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> #2 Flat Weights to hold down parts while glueing?
> #3 Weigh parts

And patience...always patience.

Re #2...not necessarily flat weights..just a flat surface to put the weight
on.
rmaheuxr@bellsouth.net - 02 Jan 2009 11:13 GMT
When I built my building table, I framed it with 1x4s and used a strait edge
and plane to level the frame before I put on the 3/4" MDF top.  I have a
piece of 1/4" plate glass that I actually build on.  The plans go under the
glass where they are easy to see and don't move.  As long as I look straight
down on them, they are easy to use.  The glass is flat and any glue that
gets spilled comes off with a razor scraper.  I have been using painter's
tape to hold things in place on the glass, but the modeling clay sounds like
a great idea I'll have to try.  As for vertical squareness, I used my chop
saw to make some 45 and 60 degree triangle blocks out of 3/4" oak stock.
They will stand on edge and 2 will hold things vertical while the glue
dries.

> "build straight straight straight and then check for straightness
> again.... "
>
> Straightness is key, indeed. Got any tricks of the trade for
> horizontal and vertical straightness?
korbdallas@gmail.com - 31 Dec 2008 22:32 GMT
i tried it once and i can say that it is useless. that applies to both
four-stroke and two-stroke engines. i got moderately better results
from two-strokes, but even with them the noise and the exhaust was
virtually unbearable. and it is surely a huge pain in the a.s to clean
out the cylinder of the partially burned rubber deposits afterwards. i
tried several different types of rubber and additives, but none work
very well. the result is that from now on i'm planning to stick to
liquid fuels. actually, you can try to add just some small[-ish]
amount of rubber to gasoline based fuels, so that it dissolves
entirely, but feeding pure rubber into an engine is a dead end, as my
pervious experience shurely shows.

On Dec 30, 7:32 pm, "Admin - RCGearing.com" <rcgear...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Jeff
David Hopper - 31 Dec 2008 22:41 GMT
>i tried it once and i can say that it is useless. that applies to both
>four-stroke and two-stroke engines. i got moderately better results
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>entirely, but feeding pure rubber into an engine is a dead end, as my
>pervious experience shurely shows.

Pass the butter - I smell corn...

Signature

David

Schiffner - 02 Jan 2009 06:26 GMT
> Hi,
>
> Tell me about the Guillow's model that you glued together and how it
> flew.

Last built an Arrow...oh must have been 20 years ago. As I recall it
flew well. Came up nicely not to sharp, banked to the left "just
right" so it made a big circle. Decent hang time, handled side gusts
okay... pretty much built it using only white glue cut 50/50 and
covered it with their tissue (heavy stuff)  and water with just enough
white glue to help seal the pores.

--
Keith
zen@lanset.com - 10 Jan 2009 02:04 GMT
I think it was a Guillows model; a Grumman Hellcat, maybe 18" wingspan
It was easy to build and cover with Japanese tissue paper, shrunk wit
water from a plant sprayer and finished with blue nitrate dope after i
shrunk tight. This was just before Monokote first came out. Many year
ago. I put a Cox .020 gas motor in it and flew it as a free fligh
model. It flew really straight. I had to shim the motor to give it som
side thrust to go in a circle.

I built wings and fuselages on a fiber bulletin board, with
composition very much like acoustic ceiling tiles. I put waxed pape
over the building plans so the assemblies could be easily separated fro
the plans and used 'T'-pins to hold parts down. Titebond aliphatic resi
white glue was the high tech innovation in those days and I still hav
it on hand today. God, the RC hardware is so developed, and s
reasonable. Just thinking about it makes me want to build a
airplane....

These days I am occupied mostly with RC helicopters, electric, but a
thinking of building a Guillows airplane to take advantace o
ultra-lightweight RC receivers and servos and a very small brushles
motor. I would have killed for stuff like this when I was a kid!

Zip Zackerly - www.ABCheli.co

--
zen@lanset.co
Martin X. Moleski, SJ - 10 Jan 2009 03:31 GMT
>These days I am occupied mostly with RC helicopters, electric, but am
>thinking of building a Guillows airplane to take advantace of
>ultra-lightweight RC receivers and servos and a very small brushless
>motor. I would have killed for stuff like this when I was a kid!

You're right--the Guillows kits might make very interesting
indoor models with the new technology.  I never thought of
that ...

                Marty
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The Natural Philosopher - 10 Jan 2009 11:29 GMT
>> These days I am occupied mostly with RC helicopters, electric, but am
>> thinking of building a Guillows airplane to take advantace of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>                 Marty

Loads of people convert em to electric R/C. check out scale forum in
rcgroups.
MJKolodziej - 10 Jan 2009 04:17 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Jeff

It was early 90s. It was a P-51 mustang.  Tissue, silver Pactra. It never
did fly.  I have a Guillow's kit on the shelf that I hope to redeem myself
with.  The new micro rc stuff has entered my mind but I would go the small
stuff and don't want to fork over for it(plantraco?). Maybe I could make it
free flight with a teeninetsy motor, prop and batt.  I can always use
another lesson in flight trimming.
mk
Martin X. Moleski, SJ - 10 Jan 2009 04:51 GMT
> ... I have a Guillow's kit on the shelf that I hope to redeem myself
>with. ...

I just realized that I have a Herr Brothers laser-cut Cub
kit that might make a splendid indoor flyer.  

Not this winter.  Maybe not next winter.  But it's a reason
to let the kit collect dust where it is a little longer.

                Marty
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The Natural Philosopher - 10 Jan 2009 11:31 GMT
>> Hi,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> another lesson in flight trimming.
> mk

micro outrinners are not that bad..theres a 10g unit in united hobbies
IIRC at $7.95..and a 16" span warbird can carry standard feather servos
and receiver, just.
 
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