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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / July 2004



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best helicopter simulator?

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fleh@blah.com - 04 Jun 2004 13:22 GMT
What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
Oliver - 04 Jun 2004 16:22 GMT
FMS For beginners.
I use FMS, which is a free simulator. I haven't tried other simulators but I
don't think FMS is as accurate as the pay for sims. However in my opinion
orientation of the controls and your perception of the orientation of the
model in the sky are alot more important than perfect flying characteristics
when you first learn to fly. Later on if you need more realism you can get a
better simulator, when they will also be more advanced and probably a bit
cheaper. Of course if your already a capable pilot then FMS may not help you
much. I don't know how accurate it is, im still hovering. I know it doesn't
simulate ground affect. (it supports wind though)

FMS

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Interface cable(£15 or make it your self)

http://www.clonepac.freeserve.co.uk/prod03.htm

Oliver
Nigel - 04 Jun 2004 17:59 GMT
Have you got

a) a heli yet
b) a transmitter

If you have both then I would skip FMS.  It is free, though if you are using
XP you will need to buy a PIC based lead - £15 or so.  It gives a fair idea
of orientation which is useful but its physics engine is pretty poor.
Basically, it is too easy and there is a danger that you will come away
thinking you can fly when you can't.  For example, in FMS hovering is just a
matter of increasing the collective and the heli will sit in a hover - in
real life your heli will be bobbing up and down with gusts and will be
trying to slide off to the side.

The best are generally considered to be Reflex and G2 (both have their
supporters).  I've had both and prefer Reflex and in the UK G2 is a silly
price.  Another one of interest is aerofly pro which is reputed to be very
good and is the cheapest (in UK) of the three.

If you don't have a heli but you have a transmitter, then you could give FMS
a go to see whether it is for you at minimum cost.  But again I would
recommend Reflex, G2 or Aerofly if you want to take it any further.

If you don't have a heli or a transmitter then you may want to consider
Aerofly or G2.  Both of these can come with their own controller.

Where to buy - IMHO, eBay.  There are plenty for sale and a considerble
saving.  I bought Reflex for £60 (£100 new at the time) and I have just
bought G2 for £110 (£170 new at the time).  I reckon if after a few months
my friend decided he didn't want to pursue helis I reckon I could easily get
back what I paid.

Note that I used GBP throughout and the relative prices are based on the UK
market.  In the US I think you will find G2 pricing is much more favourable.

Cheers,

Nigel

> What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
Dave - 04 Jun 2004 19:49 GMT
Hi all
FMS 7 is better than 6 as you can alter wind settings to give gusts etc.
this makes it more difficult = better to learn with. You dont need an
expensive lead even with XP as you can download a driver and make a simple
lead. (you are a modeller aren't you - i.e. you build things - or are you a
consumer - pay someone else type?) even an "inaccurate" SIM like FMS is
better than no SIM
Regards Dave

> Have you got
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
Nigel - 04 Jun 2004 20:16 GMT
quote  (you are a modeller aren't you - i.e. you build things - or are you a
consumer - pay someone else type?)

Actually, I am pretty skilled at electronics (to degree level and beyond)
and could easily design and build a PIC based interface from first
principles.  However, I tend not to assume others share my skills - I have
found that in the past when I have assumed that modellers have the tools or
the ability to solder electronics components I have been usually wrong.

I'm aware of the serial port emulator that you can use on NT-based operating
systems because applications such as FMS, CSM simulator and CSM gyro tools
don't run in kernal mode.  I've experienced and heard mixed reactions - I
certainly couldn't get it to work on XP Pro with the CSM simulator that
comes with the Hoverfly.

I have been into RC modelling for the last 18 years - 17 of those on fixed
wing and the last 1 on helis.  Another observation that I have personally
made is that fixed wing types are more likely to build themselves whereas
heli type go out and buy consumer parts - just look at how many splash out
on commercial pitch guages and blade balancers when they are a piece of
piddle to make for virtually nothing - bet you made yours though.

In defence of heli fliers, I have observed that generally they are
comfortable and adept with new technologies such as programmable radios,
gyros, governors and computers in general, much more so than fixed wing
fliers - generalisation I know but holds pretty solid in my personal
experience.

Not sure which version of FMS I tried but it was over a year ago so I accept
that it could have improved - but the one I tried was dead easy compaired
with G2.

Cheers,

Nigel
Dave - 05 Jun 2004 17:08 GMT
> quote  (you are a modeller aren't you - i.e. you build things - or are you a
> consumer - pay someone else type?)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> found that in the past when I have assumed that modellers have the tools or
> the ability to solder electronics components I have been usually wrong.

Good!

> I'm aware of the serial

(parallel)

>port emulator that you can use on NT-based operating
> systems because applications such as FMS, CSM simulator and CSM gyro tools
> don't run in kernal mode.  I've experienced and heard mixed reactions - I
> certainly couldn't get it to work on XP Pro with the CSM simulator that
> comes with the Hoverfly.

No Problems this end

> I have been into RC modelling for the last 18 years - 17 of those on fixed
> wing and the last 1 on helis.

modeller for 31 years this end and an electronics engineer for 24, radio ham
for 25 started with control line at age 12. Built models, radios, cars and
even houses. I dont make assumptions - that is why I ask questions!

>  Another observation that I have personally
> made is that fixed wing types are more likely to build themselves whereas
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> that it could have improved - but the one I tried was dead easy compaired
> with G2.

info - FMS 7 has only been out a few months

> Cheers,
>
> Nigel

Regards Dave
Nigel - 05 Jun 2004 20:51 GMT
Excellent, you've managed to get the port emulator working with the CSM
simulator that comes with the Hoverfly - its based on CSM V8 (maybe 9 - but
certainly not the latest.  I couldn't get it working and I spoke to
Snelflight who couldn't help.

How did you get your Hoverfly simulator working with XP (not using a Windows
98SE boot disk - which I can get working)

Cheers,

Nigel
Nigel - 04 Jun 2004 20:24 GMT
Also, I didn't dismiss FMS.

I said that if you don't have a heli but you have a transmitter (fixed wing
flier for example) then it is worth using.

If you don't have either then you have to factor in the transmitter and lead
cost at which point you are on your way to Aerofly Pro costs.

The trouble with FMS for learning helis is that it doesn't simulate hovering
very well - but this is what you've got to learn first with your 'real'
model so this is a big minus for FMS IMHO.

Cheers,

Nigel
Roy - 05 Jun 2004 02:00 GMT
> Also, I didn't dismiss FMS.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Nigel

I learned to fly with FMS.
Flew my heli with no buddy lead or support with no problems after learning
on FMS.
have put 11 gallons through engine so far.

I think FMS is great.

regards
Roy
DBB3 - 04 Jun 2004 18:18 GMT
> What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?

RealFlight G2.  
It rocks.
Moonstone - 04 Jun 2004 19:11 GMT
> > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?

Tru-Flite3D is IMHO pretty good. That is available from www.tru-flite.co.uk.
£80 - £90 IIRC.

Regards,

Moonstone
Banks Family - 04 Jun 2004 19:34 GMT
CSM is very good for reality but the graphics are poor - you should be able
to pick it up for £30 on eBay but you will need a transmitter.

Its very lifelike if you can live with the graphics - if you are not short
of cash go for Reflex.

> > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
>
> RealFlight G2.
> It rocks.
dagny the pilot - 26 Jul 2004 23:02 GMT
> > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
>
> RealFlight G2.
> It rocks.

I am still new to Heli and got Real G2.  I have been spending 1/2 or an hour
on it almost everyday in the last 2 weeks.  I can not hover yet.   It still
moves around and of course every now and then crashes.   I am trying not to
put too much control and to make a bit by bit on the control stick.   Does a
real Heli feel like this?  Am I going to get proficinet if I continue trying
on G2?

Thanks in advance.
Alan - 26 Jul 2004 23:24 GMT
It's all about ANTICIPATING what's going to happen next and being
PROreactive not REactive. Keep at it, and yes a real model does feel the
same.

Signature

Alan
alandotrait@btopenworlddot.com
Remove the dots to reply
http://heliweb.users.btopenworld.com/

> > > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance.
Steve R. - 26 Jul 2004 23:57 GMT
I agree completely with what Alan says about anticipation.  It's the heart
of  hovering a helicopter, model or full size, and it just takes practice.

The sim should teach you the base reflexes you need to fly the real thing.
However, I've found some models programmed up that were "way" more touchy
than a beginner should be trying to fly.  I've also seen them on the other
end of the scale where you get away with things that you'd "never" get away
with on a real model.  If you know someone in your area that flying
competently, ask them to check out the model you're flying.  If not, try
selecting a different model to see if it's a little more sedate.

After 2 weeks, I'd think you'd start to be getting the hang of things.  On
the other hand, some folks take a little longer than others.  Don't get
discouraged.  You're doing the right thing, sticking to the sim.  Think of
all the money you're saving every time you crash on the computer and not in
the real world.  I wish these things had been around when I learned to fly!
;-)

When you're ready, you'll find that the real world is no big deal.  Good
luck and keep at it!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

> > > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance.
Average Heli Person - 04 Jun 2004 19:27 GMT
www.reflex-sim.de

> What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
Steve G - 05 Jun 2004 01:07 GMT
> What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?

Keep in mind that any sim that uses a keyboard or joystick is a useless sim;
or, in other words, just a game.
In order to be effective, a sim has to incorporate the use of a transmitter
or a reasonable facsimile of one.
The hand eye coordination exercise is what you are developing.
Oliwood - 06 Jun 2004 15:04 GMT
Hi,

Does anybody can help me, i would like to know if
FMS work with the tru-flite 3D interface ?
Did it work with all version of tru-flite interface ?

Thanks
oliwood

> > What do you all recommend as a helicopter simulator for a PC?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> or a reasonable facsimile of one.
> The hand eye coordination exercise is what you are developing.
 
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