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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / October 2004hover
anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just moves Thanx Michael > anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just > moves > > Thanx Practice, practice, practice.Practice, practice, practice Oh, and keep an eye on the skids too - you'll probably see a movement in the alignment of the skids before you see it in the fuselage or disc. HTH > Michael how long did it take u? > > anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just > > moves [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > HTH > > Michael To learn to hover? Not sure. I practiced shed loads on a computer simulator, maybe twnety minutes a day for several weeks and the hover just sort of came. Then I picked up a real tranny and just flew the hover and circuits etc. I cant speak highly enough of computer sims. David > how long did it take u? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > HTH > > > Michael Hi Michael... I too had a very tough time getting the hang of hovering too in the beginning. Thus out of desperation, I watched that trainer under RealFlight G2. One can pop up the transmitter with the control key and the equal key (I think that was the right keys). Btw, which simulator do you use? Anyway I noticed how often the trainer moved the stick around. It was like 5 to 6 times a second and my head couldn't calculate which way to move the sticks that fast. So I was really desperate and I just moved the cyclic (joystick) in small random movements about 4 to 5 times per second. And believe it or not, it started working like trying to ride a bicycle for the very first time. As my actions became automatic and I didn't even have to think it all out at all. And it didn't take long for me to fly around all day without any problems. I later purchased a Raptor 30 v1 and it too hovers like a dream. Hope this helps. Btw, I learned after some experience that the trainer on Real Flight G2 can't hover worth a darn. But you do get the general idea anyway. <grin> Cheers! _______________________________________________ Bill (using a HP Pavilion 8655c & Windows 2000) -- written and edited within Word 2000 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:01:49 GMT anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just moves Thanx Michael Tru-flite 3D 4.3 Thanx Hi Michael... I too had a very tough time getting the hang of hovering too in the beginning. Thus out of desperation, I watched that trainer under RealFlight G2. One can pop up the transmitter with the control key and the equal key (I think that was the right keys). Btw, which simulator do you use? Anyway I noticed how often the trainer moved the stick around. It was like 5 to 6 times a second and my head couldn't calculate which way to move the sticks that fast. So I was really desperate and I just moved the cyclic (joystick) in small random movements about 4 to 5 times per second. And believe it or not, it started working like trying to ride a bicycle for the very first time. As my actions became automatic and I didn't even have to think it all out at all. And it didn't take long for me to fly around all day without any problems. I later purchased a Raptor 30 v1 and it too hovers like a dream. Hope this helps. Btw, I learned after some experience that the trainer on Real Flight G2 can't hover worth a darn. But you do get the general idea anyway. <grin> Cheers! _______________________________________________ Bill (using a HP Pavilion 8655c & Windows 2000) -- written and edited within Word 2000 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 19:01:49 GMT anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just moves Thanx Michael > anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it > just moves > > Thanx > > Michael From my experience, using the ATVs on the cyclic controls and putting in a bit of exponential helped big time. If that went over your head (you may be new to RC), then what that did was reduce the sensitivity of the cyclic controls around the neutral stick position. In other words, it didn't matter too much if I was a bit ham fisted with the controls as the response was toned down. Tim > anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just > moves Next week, you'll wonder why you ever found it difficult. Run the rotor up to flying speed, maybe a touch more than half stick. Hold it and wait for the rotor speed to stabilize, and then advance collective *gently* until it gets light. In a hover, the collective is a height control until about eye level. Forward flight power is roughly what you use in a 2 ft hover. (The difference is translational lift, but that's a story for tomorrow.) Keep it under 6" until you have a handle on things. It's not a wonder that it keeps running away when you have more power on. Bring it up slowly. I guarantee you won't hover if you're muscling it off the deck. The rest of it is anticipating and then correcting. Nobody can talk you through that, beyond pointing out that you need some right cyclic when it lifts off. (If that doesn't make sense, it's the wine talking. I usually write clearly. Hard to do that without a clear mind, though.) Michael, As the heli comes light on the skids, it will be necessary to apply a bit of right cyclic to counteract the heli's natural tendency to tilt a bit. Again, this leaning in hover is perfectly natural. If you are not ready for this effect, the heli will skitter off to the left. Hope this helps. > anyone got any tips for hoving? ive tried on my sim. but everytime it just > moves > > Thanx > > Michael > Michael, > As the heli comes light on the skids, it will be necessary to apply a bit of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > > Michael Practice, practice, practice.Practice, practice, practice is the way to learn hovering. I still do some practice sometime on the FMS free simulator now. Hovering is the MUST skill you need. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OWNED: 1 eSky Helicopter, 1 DragonFly Helicopter, 1 Hirobo Nitro Helicopter Recommend: RC Shop: http://www.HobbyJapan2000.com RC Forum: http://www.rcboard.net/forumboard Free Simulator: http://www.flying-model-simulator.com Searc Engine: http://www.google.com >> Michael, >> As the heli comes light on the skids, it will be necessary to apply a bit [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > to learn hovering. I still do some practice sometime on the FMS free > simulator now. Hovering is the MUST skill you need. Keep at it, once you have mastered the Hover, everything else is straight forward from there (excuse the pun...!!) The Hover is not too difficult but once you have it you can fly easily as everything with Heli's starts and ends with the Hover. I have been flying Heli's for 20 years now, Before Gyro's were available too...!!! and I still don't use one now, but that is my personal choice as I can happily fly without one. If you are new suggest you try one to tame the response on your Heli. Good Luck Regards............Mark > ... > I have been flying Heli's for 20 years now, Before Gyro's were available [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Good Luck > Regards............Mark Hi Mark... I've been thinking of pulling my gyro out. Now my JR8103 has mixing abilities to counteract changes in torque and make adjustments to the tail. And I am curious if you also use this mixing ability as well? I guess one doesn't use this feature with a heading hold gyro, correct? One reason why I am thinking of disconnecting the gyro is because out of the blue, my Raptor 30 v1 will start spinning and I'll lose control. Lift also drops about in half when this happens. Also I believe after flying a number of helis for over a year, I can fly without a gyro anyway. So I am just curious about what you think about all of this? Bill > > ... > > I have been flying Heli's for 20 years now, Before Gyro's were available [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > blue, my Raptor 30 v1 will start spinning and I'll lose control. Lift also > drops about in half when this happens. Not the gyro causing it then Bill. Sounds to me like there's a problem somewhere else. Also I believe after flying a number > of helis for over a year, I can fly without a gyro anyway. Don't "believe" it, THINK it, but don't expect to find it easy. I learned how to fly without a gyro too, way back in '74 and that's before any elctro OR mechanical mixing was available. I bought a gyro when they became available, fitted it and promptly UNfitted it. I couldn't stand the "dead" feeling, and that's with the first gyro's you could get and compared to the gyro's of today, the heli was "lively" to say the least. The current gyros take so much work out of flying that it's easy to think flying without one would be pretty simple and easy, but out there in real world land, the land is VERY hard, and you could find yourself trying to dig your heli out of it. So I am just > curious about what you think about all of this? I'd say "Give it a go", but I'm a right bastard, with a mile wide evil streak ;-)). I'd also say "Do it where you can't hurt anyone (including yourself) but get someone to video the flight and post it in rec.binaries.rc.models" :-)  SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk Bill take it from me - you don't need no stinking giro. They're for poofs and if you are not able to learn to fly without one, you're kidding yourself on. REAL helis don't have giros! Take it out, do the mixing thing and FLY the model. The rewards will be great. Keep us posted wont you?.... J > Bill take it from me - you don't need no stinking giro. They're for poofs > and if you are not able to learn to fly without one, you're kidding yourself > on. REAL helis don't have giros! > > Take it out, do the mixing thing and FLY the model. The rewards will be > great. Nasty bleeder:))) > Keep us posted wont you?.... And video'd!! SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk > > Bill take it from me - you don't need no stinking giro. They're for poofs > > and if you are not able to learn to fly without one, you're kidding [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nasty bleeder:))) Heh heh....shhhhhhh! Well I haven't yet, but I fired up RealFlight G2. While I don't think it allows me to remove the gyro (say for the Impala for example). But I believe I have it operating now as if it wasn't there. And I got to tell you that I *love* how it flies! As it flies around as easy as a fixed wing. I can fly one handed if I want to and scratch my nose or something for as long as I want. And you can do basically whatever you want to and the tail gets wind vines anyway and you don't have to control the tail whatsoever until you slow down. I mean this is really great! You can fly way off in the distance and you don't have to guess what is happening. Or pull the nose up to stop and then drop one side and dive. Very much like flying a fix wing vs. heli (w/heading hold gyro). Now this is my kind of flying! For those of you that like gyros, I would like to know why cockpit pilots don't use tail gyros at all? Bill >> Bill take it from me - you don't need no stinking giro. They're for >> poofs and if you are not able to learn to fly without one, you're [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > And video'd!! > Well I haven't yet, but I fired up RealFlight G2. While I don't think it > allows me to remove the gyro (say for the Impala for example). But I believe [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to and the tail gets wind vines anyway and you don't have to control the > tail whatsoever until you slow down. That IS where no gyro helps and that's why I instruct newbies to circuits to fly with NO heading lock "on" for their first few circuits. Weathervaning can't happen with a HH gyro and on your first circuits you NEED the tail behind the nose all the time. Getting and KEEPING solid heading in the hover without a gyro isn't quite so easy though. > I mean this is really great! You can fly way off in the distance and you > don't have to guess what is happening. Or pull the nose up to stop and then [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > For those of you that like gyros, I would like to know why cockpit pilots > don't use tail gyros at all? What makes you think they don't? Granted the General Aviation heli's don't have gyro's, but lots of commercial machines do. The SeaKing even has an auto "descend, hover and return to height" eature which relies on gyro's, doppler radar and much more. Also you mustn't forget the effects of inertia. The mass and power of our diddy machines and the speed of the tail rotor (as a percentage of the main rotor speed) makes for a huge difference to the way the heli reacts to power changes and "rudder pedal" inputs. SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk Real heli pilots don't use mechanical gyros because they have one in themselves. A pilot "feels" the aircraft and adjusts. A bit hard for us modelers to do. > Well I haven't yet, but I fired up RealFlight G2. While I don't think it > allows me to remove the gyro (say for the Impala for example). But I [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> >> And video'd!! Actually, there are some full size bird that do use gyros (they call them yaw dampers) to help control unwanted side to side movements of the nose of the aircraft. Some full size birds have a tendency to "wag their tails" so to speak while in forward flight. Effectively canceling this out is a full time job for the pilot and passengers prone to motion sickness are often unnerved by the effect. Consequently, they install a yaw damper to control this problem, not only for the pilot's work load but also for passenger comfort. FWIW, Fly Safe, Steve R. > Real heli pilots don't use mechanical gyros because they have one in > themselves. A pilot "feels" the aircraft and adjusts. A bit hard for us [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> >>> And video'd!! > Real heli pilots don't use mechanical gyros because they have one in > themselves. A pilot "feels" the aircraft and adjusts. He wouldn't in a thick cloud bank. He might THINK he could, but if he's not well versed in the art of intrument flying, history shows that if he can't SEE where he's going/where he is, then this "feel" is about as much use as a chocolate tea-pot. The pilot usually discovers this for himself within 30 seconds of entering a cloud bank. His passengers discover it too, in roughly the time they have to look out of the window before they slam into the deck. A bit hard for us > modelers to do. Not if that's how you learned. I (and many others) flew for YEARS without any gyro's, but they make life SO much easier and they allow for a wider range of aerobatics. SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk You "feel" your model in flight Beav? Now I know you can walk on water. LOL >> Real heli pilots don't use mechanical gyros because they have one in >> themselves. A pilot "feels" the aircraft and adjusts. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > any gyro's, but they make life SO much easier and they allow for a wider > range of aerobatics. > You "feel" your model in flight Beav? Don't tell me you can't. You (well *I*) can tell if it's a heavy or a light heli too without picking it up. I'm not the only one wither, I'm positive about that. > Now I know you can walk on water. LOL Not "quite", but I'm working on it. So far I've only come close to drowning every time:-)) SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk >> You "feel" your model in flight Beav? > > Don't tell me you can't. You (well *I*) can tell if it's a heavy or a > light heli too without picking it up. I'm not the only one wither, I'm > positive about that. Absolutely! I know I'm really only feeling the centering springs on the sticks but I swear sometimes that my mind interpolates a "feel" of the controls based on how far I've got to move the sticks relative to what I'm seeing the model do. I struggled for the first few years of my flying, trying to develop the finesse that a helicopter requires in order to be flown smoothly. That was my main goal at the time, to be able to hold a reasonably stable hover and to transition in and out of hover when and (more importantly!) where I wanted to! ;-) One of the biggest jumps I had in skill level came when I "finally" learned to relax on the sticks enough to begin to "feel" how far I was deflecting them for a given maneuver. Up till that time, I'd always had a "death grip" on the control sticks and had no idea where I was putting them most of the time. When I look back on it, I know there were many time that I was making control inputs to the model that I was totally unaware of. Once I got past that point, an intuitive "feel" of the transmitter began to develop and my flight skills improved significantly! Fly Safe, Steve R. >>> You "feel" your model in flight Beav? >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > unaware of. Once I got past that point, an intuitive "feel" of the > transmitter began to develop and my flight skills improved significantly! As I tell my students Steve, "Control movements consist of lots and lots of f.ck all, and grip the stick as if it's a sore dick:-)) They seem to relate to that somehow:-)) SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk I like to grip my dick hard when its sore Beav :-)) >>>> You "feel" your model in flight Beav? >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > They seem to relate to that somehow:-)) Gee, thanks Tony. I don't know how I was making it through my day without that mental image! ;-) Fly Safe, Steve R. >I like to grip my dick hard when its sore Beav :-)) > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> >> They seem to relate to that somehow:-)) > >> Michael, > >> As the heli comes light on the skids, it will be necessary to apply a bit [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > can happily fly without one. If you are new suggest you try one to tame the > response on your Heli. Mark, get a good heading holder, fit it and learn all your normal flying tricks again, but backwards. It opens up a whole new world. One of pain, expense, tears, tribulations and even a bit of fun:-) It's also not possible to do it without a heading hold gyro. A slow backwards circuit is doable, but that's about it. SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk Hi Beav... I have a GY401 (I think I got the GY part right). Anyway gyros sometimes screws up (like what I believe mine is doing occasionally). That is the problem with automatic things. As they work fine and even sometimes better than us humans when they actually work. But once they screw up, they are tons far worse than us humans. I, for one want and request a kill switch. Is this possible? Bill > Mark, get a good heading holder, fit it and learn all your normal flying > tricks again, but backwards. > > It opens up a whole new world. One of pain, expense, tears, tribulations and > even a bit of fun:-) It's also not possible to do it without a heading hold > gyro. A slow backwards circuit is doable, but that's about it. > Hi Beav... I have a GY401 (I think I got the GY part right). Anyway gyros > sometimes screws up (like what I believe mine is doing occasionally). I run the GY401, and 9253 combo on the tail and have no problems. It's IMPORTANT to boot the 401 in heading hod mode otherwise you may get some strange results...... SignatureAlan alandotrait@btopenworlddot.com Remove the dots to reply http://heliweb.users.btopenworld.com/ > Hi Beav... I have a GY401 (I think I got the GY part right). Anyway gyros > sometimes screws up (like what I believe mine is doing occasionally). That > is the problem with automatic things. As they work fine and even sometimes > better than us humans when they actually work. But once they screw up, they > are tons far worse than us humans. I, for one want and request a kill > switch. Is this possible? A kill switch! Mmmmm (Would that be a Kill Bill switch?:-) Well I suppose you could set the gyro up so that it has the least effect (no gain etc) on a switch and if the sh.t hit the fan you could switch to it's "least efective state", but to be honest, the number of times I've had a gyro fail to the point where it's done damage to a heli I can count on the fingers of one finger:-) I wish I could say the same for the number of crashes my brain has caused. I'll take the reliability of modern electronics over my own EVERY time. Mind you, I'm an old fart so it's no surprise. SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk >> >> Michael, >> >> As the heli comes light on the skids, it will be necessary to apply a [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > hold > gyro. A slow backwards circuit is doable, but that's about it. I have a good heading holder.........called my thumb...!!! I can fly backwards too and do quite a few advanced manouevres with my Heli's and all done without Gyro's. Yes I would say Bills Gyro is playing up or at least something else is.....from what he has described. That's the beauty of flying without one, one less bit to go wrong. I have tried a gyro once but that soon got unplugged and taken out, since then I have stuck to how I have always flown............ without one. The good thing here is I know what sort of reaction to expect from the Heli so am not going to get caught out by any nasty surprises. Once you have the feel for it, it becomes like riding a bike, you don't forget it. Still that is my personal preference at the end of the day. I am just awaiting delivery of my Wireless mini CCTV System to get that installed in the Heli now....!!! Regards.............Mark PS..................Nice Website Beav. Regards...........Mark. Mark when your camera comes, do you have to retune it each time you move it? its just i just got 1 for my r/c sub and i got that problem Thanx Michael > PS..................Nice Website Beav. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.765 / Virus Database: 512 - Release Date: 16/09/2004 > PS..................Nice Website Beav. It's about time did some updating!!!! I've got lazy and busy:-) Cheers though!!! SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk > >> >> Michael, > >> >> As the heli comes light on the skids, it will be necessary to apply a [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > I have a good heading holder.........called my thumb...!!! I'm sure it's excellent too, but I suspect a backwards cuban eight might prove a bit much for it:-) I can fly > backwards too and do quite a few advanced manouevres with my Heli's and all > done without Gyro's. Me too, but the HH gyro's make life SO much easier. > Yes I would say Bills Gyro is playing up or at least something else > is.....from what he has described. That's the beauty of flying without one, > one less bit to go wrong. Taken to it's extreme, we'd still be flying reed gear:-)) > I have tried a gyro once but that soon got unplugged and taken out, since > then I have stuck to how I have always flown............ without one. > The good thing here is I know what sort of reaction to expect from the Heli > so am not going to get caught out by any nasty surprises. Once you have the > feel for it, it becomes like riding a bike, you don't forget it. I know, I learned without a gyro, but I learned that there's a better way too. > Still that is my personal preference at the end of the day. And that's what it's all about. > I am just awaiting delivery of my Wireless mini CCTV System to get that > installed in the Heli now....!!! Post some vids when you do. SignatureBeav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk |
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