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ian - 23 May 2006 19:20 GMT

ok i've read up a bit and looked at a lot of websites. The most useful has
been skyline models. However total cost of ownership is an odd issue. Most
kits mention engines seperately. Most kits still require additional
electronics then there is the radio itself. From what i gather fixed pitch
kits require 4 channel transmitters. variable pitch require 6 or more.
Then there is fuel, glo starter and engine maintenance. Its all rather
daunting from someone who got a £50 heli on the cheap then upgraded to a
twister bell 47.

It would be fair to say that minimum sizes are limited by engine based
models. the engine probably weighs more than my bell. Once i have
succeeded in mastering fixed pitch micro helis moving to a larger model
means more general stability due to sheer size, hovering more difficult but
flying proper is easier. As the mass increases so does the inertia with
which you hit an object and hence the greater the damage. It would
therefore seem wise in the longterm to work my way up the sizes and finish
with outdoor capable fuel based models. By then i would have mastered
hovering/maneouvers and flight proper by which time crashing will be less
likely.

I don't want this turning into an electric v fuel fight i want to know what
the genuine upgrade path for an aspiring novice pilot. Indoor flight will
remove the factor of wind direction and velocities until i have mastered the
basics. It also limits the danger to third parties. As already pointed out
micro helicopter crashes are far less expensive. i've spent about £30 on
rotor blades mostly due to flying in too small a space, whereas to quote
skymodels again larger copters it is a case of"not if you damage a copter in
a crash but how much damage you do".

Final anecdotal evidence to consider is that skyline models say that some
novices find micro copters too difficult and give up whereas i know someone
who went and bought a petrol machine, broke the main mast on its maiden
voyage and hasn't used it since.

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Alistair - 23 May 2006 19:36 GMT

> ok i've read up a bit and looked at a lot of websites. The most useful has
> been skyline models. However total cost of ownership is an odd issue. Most
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> who went and bought a petrol machine, broke the main mast on its maiden
> voyage and hasn't used it since.

firstly, you know you can't fly a nitro bird indoors right?? (don't
laugh, I know someone that tried it)

you can pick up a cheap 4channel heli for under £100, and practise to
your hearts content infront of the tv. I've been playing with a walkera
4# and loving it. I've crashed it loads but NOTHING has broken yet. I
have managed a few 10-15 second hovers in only a couple of days practice.

for something more advanced, you are going to need a 6 channel, so...you
can start with a simple 6ch that has a host of upgradable parts. again,
if you get a chepear one (walkera 22E for example - lots will give you
different advice but I've also got one of these and it's great!) the
parts can be replaced cheaply when you crash. Again this is an indoor
unit but can also be flown outside on clear days.

the thing is, there are a huge amount of choices and it depends on how
deep your pockets are.

if you plan to advance to a nitro then maybe a cheap 4 channel will give
you the basics without costing a fortune. if you want to stick with an
electric, get a slightly more advanced 6ch, but don't be tempted to get
anything too advanced as you'll be disappointed when you can't fly it.

Reply to this Message

ian - 23 May 2006 23:47 GMT

"Alistair" <news@pants.alistairb.co.uk> wrote in message
news:44735637$0$10767$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-

> firstly, you know you can't fly a nitro bird indoors right?? (don't laugh,
> I know someone that tried it)

yes. apart from noise and pollution it would need to be crystal palace or
something.

> you can pick up a cheap 4channel heli for under £100, and practise to your
> hearts content infront of the tv. I've been playing with a walkera 4# and
> loving it. I've crashed it loads but NOTHING has broken yet. I have
> managed a few 10-15 second hovers in only a couple of days practice.

i have the £119 twister bell 47. originally had a hirobo llama recommended
but that was more than twice the price.

> for something more advanced, you are going to need a 6 channel, so...you
> can start with a simple 6ch that has a host of upgradable parts. again, if
> you get a chepear one (walkera 22E for example - lots will give you
> different advice but I've also got one of these and it's great!) the parts
> can be replaced cheaply when you crash. Again this is an indoor unit but
> can also be flown outside on clear days.

a decent upgrade path interests me. on century's website an electric
century swift won the clubman 3d trophy and was the only electric in the
field.

> the thing is, there are a huge amount of choices and it depends on how
> deep your pockets are.

the huge amount of choice is bewildering. not only manufacturers but also
glo fuel, petrol nitro,

> if you plan to advance to a nitro then maybe a cheap 4 channel will give
> you the basics without costing a fortune. if you want to stick with an
> electric, get a slightly more advanced 6ch, but don't be tempted to get
> anything too advanced as you'll be disappointed when you can't fly it.

I recall at a ripmax show they showed off a control system that allowed
intermediate operators to perform maneuvers that the expert and master
pilots had done. This was due to alot of extra onboard electronics and
computerised transmitters. There is a link to stabilisation systems so good
that if you let go the computer takes over and makes the craft hover.

The same store who offered the hirobo said that novices like myself should
ignore the cheap £100 models as they are actually harder to fly than the
£350 systems.

I would prefer a basic chassis that i can attach an array of upgradable
parts as my skill progresses rather than starting from scratch everytime i
wish to advance.

The local flight club suggested my next purchase should be a hummingbird v3.
£150. There are a number of hummingbird v3 machines with airwolf shells. I
haven't seen an out of the box airwolf costing less than £399.

another shop "myhobbies" suggested that i go straight from my bell 47 to
£350 twister. I think it was either the v2 or the cp3d. anyhow it was £130
for the chassis plus extra 6channel transmitter, battery, charger, brushless
motor, servos, gyro.
I think if i moved into that price bracket i'd be better off going the glo
fuel route as the high performance machines use batteries costing £179. I
could buy an engine for that.

All in all i think the same spec swift as the 3d clubman winner would do.
Also i saw a honeybee v2 that was very impressive.

I'll probably see if there is a bargain or two at the wings and wheels
spectacular.

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les - 24 May 2006 18:43 GMT

look at the t-rex 450xl
it can be used indoors and outdoors on a windy day
and do everything a raptor 50 will do and its cheaper

and does not need the upgrades todo it

> "Alistair" <news@pants.alistairb.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:44735637$0$10767$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> I'll probably see if there is a bargain or two at the wings and wheels
> spectacular.

Reply to this Message

ian - 24 May 2006 20:10 GMT

that would be £349.99 plus postage
from
http://www.skylinemodels.co.uk/

> look at the t-rex 450xl
> it can be used indoors and outdoors on a windy day
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>> I'll probably see if there is a bargain or two at the wings and wheels
>> spectacular.

Reply to this Message

TXHELIJR@dbzmail.com - 25 May 2006 10:08 GMT

You can get a basic 4CH RC helicopter about about US$ 120. Or 6CH one
for about US$ 150

Check this flying movies database and see how the helicopter fly before
you buy - http://www.linknety.com

Reply to this Message

Beav - 26 May 2006 22:02 GMT

> "Alistair" <news@pants.alistairb.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:44735637$0$10767$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> yes. apart from noise and pollution it would need to be crystal palace
> or something.

Yeah, something rubber.

>> you can pick up a cheap 4channel heli for under £100, and practise to
>> your hearts content infront of the tv. I've been playing with a walkera
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> i have the £119 twister bell 47. originally had a hirobo llama
> recommended but that was more than twice the price.

Heli's are ALL about the price. You won't find a reat heli unless you prise
the wallet open and prise it WIDE open.

>> for something more advanced, you are going to need a 6 channel, so...you
>> can start with a simple 6ch that has a host of upgradable parts. again,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> century swift won the clubman 3d trophy and was the only electric in the
> field.

And by the time the owner had upgraded it to the point where it was capable
of winning comps, the price would've been more than a bloody good glo
powered machine.

>> the thing is, there are a huge amount of choices and it depends on how
>> deep your pockets are.
>
> the huge amount of choice is bewildering. not only manufacturers but also
> glo fuel, petrol nitro,

"Nitro" IS glo fuel.

>> if you plan to advance to a nitro then maybe a cheap 4 channel will give
>> you the basics without costing a fortune. if you want to stick with an
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> computerised transmitters. There is a link to stabilisation systems so
> good that if you let go the computer takes over and makes the craft hover.

It's called the "Co-pilot" and it's for those who can't fly without crapping
themselves when thigs go tits up. Get yourself a good simulator (more money
I'm afraid) and spend some time with that.

> The same store who offered the hirobo said that novices like myself should
> ignore the cheap £100 models as they are actually harder to fly than the
> £350 systems.

And they're right.

> I would prefer a basic chassis that i can attach an array of upgradable
> parts as my skill progresses rather than starting from scratch everytime i
> wish to advance.

Then start higher up the helicopter food chain and not at rock bottom feeder
level. This ISN'T a cheap as chips hobby and you need to be aware of that
before you get involved.

> The local flight club suggested my next purchase should be a hummingbird
> v3. £150. There are a number of hummingbird v3 machines with airwolf
> shells. I haven't seen an out of the box airwolf costing less than £399.

If you want electric heli's, you have my sympathies.

> another shop "myhobbies" suggested that i go straight from my bell 47 to
> £350 twister. I think it was either the v2 or the cp3d. anyhow it was
> £130 for the chassis plus extra 6channel transmitter, battery, charger,
> brushless motor, servos, gyro.

That's the way it's always been if you want a "real" heli, as opposed to an
electric toy.

> I think if i moved into that price bracket i'd be better off going the glo
> fuel route as the high performance machines use batteries costing £179. I
> could buy an engine for that.

Indeed you could and don't forget that to make the most of that battery,
you'll need a good quaity brushless motor and a good quallity electronic
speed controller. A decent performing electric heli will cost a LOT more
than a decent performing glo powered heli.

> All in all i think the same spec swift as the 3d clubman winner would do.
> Also i saw a honeybee v2 that was very impressive.
>
> I'll probably see if there is a bargain or two at the wings and wheels
> spectacular.

Bargains usually come back to haunt you.

Signature

Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

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ian - 27 May 2006 12:43 GMT

"Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in message
news:H1Kdg.1553$l8.973@newsfe6->>> you >>

>> i have the £119 twister bell 47. originally had a hirobo llama
>> recommended but that was more than twice the price.
>
> Heli's are ALL about the price. You won't find a reat heli unless you
> prise the wallet open and prise it WIDE open.

hehe. once i learn how to fly. i went to hobby stores and said i wanted to
know if it was possible to buy a basic machine and upgrade into something
good. The guy behind the counter is one of those who likes the sound of his
own voice. i couldn't get a word in edgewise. Talked for 40 mins. Anyway
what i think he said was that buying artf kits is cheaper than buying
uncompleted kits then buying necessary parts. so much cheaper it is cheaper
the buy the cheap heli kit then the expensive one than buying a cheap heli
with expensive radio set then buying a dearer heli later.

Why would i want to do that? well rather than buying a complete kit with
radio then buying another one couldn't i buy a decent radio first, then
upgrade the heli?

Why bother why not just buy the big one?

i learnt to drive in a fiesta 1.1 once i'd done that and driven a few years
i finally got a 2.0 primera sport.

If i'm learning to fly why not crash a £150 not a £350 one?

>>> a decent upgrade path interests me. on century's website an electric
>> century swift won the clubman 3d trophy and was the only electric in the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> capable of winning comps, the price would've been more than a bloody good
> glo powered machine.

The swift on the century site was pretty standard apart from the extra
battery.

> "Nitro" IS glo fuel.

The local model shops sell it by the litre not the gallon, and prices are
still £7-10.

> It's called the "Co-pilot" and it's for those who can't fly without
> crapping themselves when thigs go tits up. Get yourself a good simulator
> (more money I'm afraid) and spend some time with that.

yeah not a problem except you still need a compatible controller on top of
that. Any decent ones that actually fly real helis with too?

>> The same store who offered the hirobo said that novices like myself
>> should ignore the cheap £100 models as they are actually harder to fly
>> than the £350 systems.
>>
> And they're right.

Guy at hobby stores couldn't make his mind up. one minute you could then
you couldn't. All in all patronising and unhelpful. Which is why i gave up
last time. So far the best advice has been from the flying club.

>> I would prefer a basic chassis that i can attach an array of upgradable
>> parts as my skill progresses rather than starting from scratch everytime
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> feeder level. This ISN'T a cheap as chips hobby and you need to be aware
> of that before you get involved.

i've been into digital slr photography for a while now, spent nearly £4k in
two years. member of two clubs, taken that as far as i can go unless i
start spending £2k per item. Which is a bit much for someone who is not
going to end up earning a living at it. Still doing it by the way.

>> The local flight club suggested my next purchase should be a hummingbird
>> v3. £150. There are a number of hummingbird v3 machines with airwolf
>> shells. I haven't seen an out of the box airwolf costing less than £399.
>
> If you want electric heli's, you have my sympathies.

I merely want to learn on them before i splash out. I started on a manual
car and have a full manual licence but i now earn an automatic with electric
windows etc. I am applying the same philosophy in learning helis. It would
seem mastering micro helis will make big powerful stable glo models a
doddle.

>> another shop "myhobbies" suggested that i go straight from my bell 47 to
>> £350 twister. I think it was either the v2 or the cp3d. anyhow it was
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Bargains usually come back to haunt you.

well at the very worst i'll learn alot about helis getting the things up and
running properly. My first car was a 1972 morris marina coupe and i spent
more time under the bonnet than driving it, but i learnt alot.

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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / May 2006

hello fellow heli owners