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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / June 2007Need some help getting started
I want to start flying rc helicopters, but have no one to help me get started. Can anyone recommend a kit that will help me learn the basics of assembly and setup, plus be a popular model for replacement parts? I realize this is not the recommended way to go, but either I do it on my on, or I'll never get into the hobby at all. Every time I try to pick out a model, all the options are overwhelming, and I just give up. Wish I could just buy one and go with it. Time and money are not a problem, and I've been flying RealFlight G3 for a year or more (upgraded to 3.5). One of the best heli pilots in the world lives here, but I've never even seen him, and I'm sure he's way too busy to help a beginner. Our local rc club has no heli members, so no help there. I've flown rc planes and have a pilots license, but I just don't know anything about helicopters. Any and all opinions welcome. Thanks, bob baldwin bob-baldwin@tamu.edu bryan/college station, texas > I want to start flying rc helicopters, but have no one to help me get > started. Can anyone recommend a kit that will help me learn the basics [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > bryan/college station, texas first of all a few questions Nitro or electric? indoor outdoor? large small? assuming you will want an easy model to fly outside go for a 30+ sized nitro or a 400 or bigger electric I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight times needed to learn the basics, but an electric is not out of the question at all. I really don't have a preference there. I understand that some kits have better instructions, some have higher quality parts, and so on. I guess the bottom line is a quality, popular outdoor kit with clear instructions and parts availability. I don't mind ordering and waiting for parts after a crash. We don't have a real hobby shop here anyway - they never stay in business very long with internet competition. Thanks! bob baldwin bryan/college station, texas >> I want to start flying rc helicopters, but have no one to help me get >> started. Can anyone recommend a kit that will help me learn the basics [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > assuming you will want an easy model to fly outside go for a 30+ sized > nitro or a 400 or bigger electric > I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too > quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > bob baldwin > bryan/college station, texas My recommentations: Radio: Spektrum DX7 (sell the servos and battery) Servos: Futaba 9252 (3x) and a std one for Throttle Gyro: Futaba 401 with servo combo Heli: Raptor 50 Titan with OS50 Hyper and Hatori muffler GSE: Good charger like the ICE or Triton, 3000mah Rx battery, 30% synth fuel, Tools etc. http://www.raptortechnique.com for Raptor Info http://www.runryder.com for lots more help Fritz >> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too quickly. >> I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight times [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Fritz Bob, I second Fritz on this, exactly. The Raptor 50 Titan is an awesome machine from beginner to 3-D. I started with a T-Rex 450SE electric, no regrets there either. The Raptor though is such a wonderful machine. It is a thrill to fly and it is very stable for a beginner as well. Definitely check out www.helifreak.com as well. Much good information and discussion there on all the helis. Enjoy! Gary >>> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too quickly. >>> I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight times [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Enjoy! > Gary the only trouble with the big nitro's is the damage they will do if you manage to fly into yourself or any thing else, and going down the lone flyer route its always going to be an option >>>> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too >>>> quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > manage to fly into yourself or any thing else, and going down the lone > flyer route its always going to be an option True! However, all it takes is a little common sense to virtually eliminate that possibility. And by the way, don't underestimate the damage a T-Rex can do if that 2500 to 3000 rpm rotor system hits you in the face or neck. I'm not trying to scare anyone away but these things can and "do" kill under the right circumstances. Always keep that in mind when operating them. On the going it alone option, I bought my first RC helicopter and learned to fly in 1982. Back then there were relatively few heli pilots around that could hover, much less fly around and do basic loops, rolls, and autorotations. Only one or two of the few I managed to meet were willing to offer any help at all because they didn't know much more than I did. Home PC's were still rare. Simulators and the Internet were nonexistent. I did get help with radio and engine setups from the fixed wing pilots at our local RC club and that helped immensely but beyond that I was on my own for learning to actually trim and fly the model. My point is that in this day and time, with "all" the resources that are readily available to us, there's absolutely no reason to do this alone. There are plenty of folks willing to offer advise and help with setups and first flight trims. Depending on where you live, you might have to drive a couple of hours to meet someone but a day or week end spent in that pursuit can pay back dividends a newcomer probably can't even imagine. Please don't go paying some individual at the field for this either. There have been some flight schools around that are good if you've got the option but I'm not currently aware of any of them that are still in operation. I've had help from any number of sources through the years and none of them charged me for it. The only pay back they required was that, as part of a hobby that we're in for the "fun" of, I simply pass on the knowledge when someone comes to me. That's the only thing I'll ask of you when the time comes. FWIW! :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. >>>>> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too >>>>> quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. I more or less have been on my own I brought a set up Nexus, after having a lot of stick time on a simulator, the Nexus had a test flight by another club member and I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, but I brought a T-Rex and built an test flown it and have only managed two boom strikes so far as I was to tight to buy a smaller training aid but I can hover a battery flat and do simple circuits , but I do fine the Nexus a scary beast up close in the hover I would recommend if possible for some body else who can fly to set up your first one > I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli > even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, Actually, buddy boxing a helicopter isn't that big a deal. I've been buddy boxing three different guys in the past 6 months. One is hover only and the other two working into forward flight and aerobatics. It's not 100%. We've still managed to crash a couple of times but I've also been able to save them hundreds of dollars at least when they got disoriented at some point. The process is pretty simple. Match programs between the master and slave transmitters. Put the bird on the ground, confirm throttle down, instructor gives control to student, student spools up the rotor system and attempts the take off. Obviously, we keep a discreet distance from the model at this point. I'm also "very" conservative at how far I allow the student to get out of hand before taking it away from them, at least at first. Once I get a feel for where the student is in their flight skills, I can let them go a little farther before taking over. As an instructor, I need to give them a chance to fix things themselves and as long as it's not careening toward the ground or toward other people / property then I'll try to give the student some leeway. Probably the hardest part for me when we first started doing this was "not" try to fly the helicopter when the student had control. There were a couple of times that the student was loosing it and I was unconsciously holding a correction to fix it even though I hadn't released the trainer switch yet. When I finally did release the trainer switch, the model reacted immediately to the control inputs I was holding. The end result was a "surprising" lurch in the opposite direction that had me over controlling for a while until I settled down again. Now, when the student lifts off, I move the throttle to some point slightly higher than required for hover and leave the cyclic and tail controls at neutral. That way, when I take it from the student, any oddball control input they're holding goes neutral, the model settles at whatever attitude it's in, and "then" I can correct back to level without all the added gymnastics on the controls. It works pretty good, actually! Once I take control, I bring the model back to the starting point, land it, confirm throttle down again, give control back to the student and start over. If you've got someone around you with the confidence to try then go for it. It does take some getting used to on both sides and the student needs to understand that there's no guaranty. You still might crash but chances are a lot better that you won't. FWIW! Fly Safe, Steve R. >> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli >> even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > still managed to crash a couple of times but I've also been able to save > them hundreds of dollars at least when they got disoriented at some point. sorry what I meant but did not type is a heli hovering at six inches is very difficult to save with a buddy box, its easier on a plane at 200 odd feet as you have time to react. as most of the time at my club there are hardly ever any helipilots that turn up its very rarely an option for me > The process is pretty simple. Match programs between the master and slave > transmitters. Put the bird on the ground, confirm throttle down, instructor [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. >>> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli >>> even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > as most of the time at my club there are hardly ever any helipilots that > turn up its very rarely an option for me This is true. That's one of the reasons I have to be "real" conservative, especially at the beginning. Then again, since I am acting as a security blanket, it's Ok to let the student get the model a bit higher off the ground. Hovering IGE (in ground effect) is harder to do than OGE (out of ground effect). It's like trying to balance the machine on a beach ball. It's always wanting to fall off. Letting the student get the model 3 to 6 feet up helps to steady things a bit and give me a little more reaction time to catch it if things get crazy. Anyway, best of luck to you & Fly Safe, Steve R. >>>> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli >>>> even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Anyway, best of luck to you & Fly Safe, > Steve R. I do try but I do find the orientation harder to work out on a heli than the usual planks I fly, just curious do you fly with sun glasses as I have heard that if in the right colour can help >>>>> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli >>>>> even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the usual planks I fly, just curious do you fly with sun glasses as I have > heard that if in the right colour can help Funfly, It may be just me, as a noob... But I fly with grey polarized prescription sunglasses. I staring/concentrating on the heli, REAL hard, and many times it plays tricks on me with orientation. When the T-Rex 450 gets far out, it's obvious it is hard to see. With my white/stock decaled Raptor 50 I lose orientation when making turns sometimes and I have to watch the skids. When it is banking/turning left, sometimes it looks like it could be doing something else and it freaks me out. I don't know if the polarized has anything to do with it. Flying without sunglasses does not seem like a good option. It's like one of those pictures that you stare at and you can see things, the heli is the same way to me. I concentrate sooo hard that my mind starts playing tricks with the way the heli is leaning, etc. I may change the color to something a really bold so that it stands out more. >>>>>> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli >>>>>> even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > I may change the color to something a really bold so that it stands out > more. I fly without sunglasses but with normal prescription ones and I quite often see the yellow ones advertised a being a great help in adding more contrast to a sky scene, but I have yet to see anyone flying with them to ask if they do help >>>>> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a heli >>>>> even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even tried, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the usual planks I fly, just curious do you fly with sun glasses as I have > heard that if in the right colour can help I usually fly with sunglasses but not all the time. Color on the model can make a big difference in how well you see and orient to it. It's more important with helicopters than airplanes because we don't have that big plank of a wing hanging out there to help us tell which way is up. Also, with airplanes, you "know" it's flying forwards. You don't have to worry about backwards or sideways. I like lighter base colors (white and especially yellows) with bright reds, yellows, greens, or oranges as trims. One guy brought a model to a fun-fly that was almost totally hot pink (canopy, fins, tail boom, and skids!). He got ribbed about that a lot but you could see the thing from 2 miles away. I guess it just depends on how secure you are in your manhood! :-D Fly Safe, Steve R. >>>>>> I have been on my own since as its very difficult to buddy box a >>>>>> heli even though I have the cables and spare TX so we have not even [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. We had a guy bring his flourescent orange plane to the field this weekend and he took a beating (all in good fun). But again, you could really see that thing! >sorry what I meant but did not type is a heli hovering at six inches is >very difficult to save with a buddy box, its easier on a plane at 200 >odd feet as you have time to react. >as most of the time at my club there are hardly ever any helipilots that > turn up its very rarely an option for me You don't want to practice hovering at 6 inches. Get the thing up out of ground effect and it'll be easier to control. >>sorry what I meant but did not type is a heli hovering at six inches is >>very difficult to save with a buddy box, its easier on a plane at 200 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You don't want to practice hovering at 6 inches. Get the thing up out > of ground effect and it'll be easier to control. That depends on where you're at. I agree, it's easier to control a bit higher up but most beginners can't control altitude that well and if you get too high, all the training gear in the world is going to be useless. At the "very" beginning, keep it low. If you get out of hand, cut power and land. Once the student can start to control things in the 6 to 12 inch altitude range, getting higher off the ground will be a no brainer. JMOOC! :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. >> sorry what I meant but did not type is a heli hovering at six inches is >> very difficult to save with a buddy box, its easier on a plane at 200 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You don't want to practice hovering at 6 inches. Get the thing up out > of ground effect and it'll be easier to control. but you need to go through 6 inches on the way up and on the way down ;-) >>>>> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too >>>>> quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. As Steve says... Any of the "serious" R/C helicopters will cause some nasty bodily damage. Just listen to the main blades screaming (even on the T-Rex) and if it doesn't give you some respect, this is not your game. If you want to start off smaller, go the T-Rex 450 (or similar) route. Anything smaller will have plastic ball links in the head, have smaller rotor disk area (making it harder to handle), etc. I was going to go "the Blade CP way" for my starter heli. The more research I did, the happier I was buying the T-Rex. It's not cheap, nothing really good is. Make the investment if you can, jump in. If you don't like it you can always sell and recoupe some money as there is a growing heli crowd. -Gary >>>>> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too >>>>> quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > FWIW! :-) Eh, bollocks to that Steve. Take the money off the sad unknowing newbie f.ckers, then head for the hills.:)  SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >the only trouble with the big nitro's is the damage they will do if you >manage to fly into yourself or any thing else, and going down the lone >flyer route its always going to be an option The damage potential for the smaller electrics is there as well... A Trex 450 with a headspeed of 3000 RPM will do quite a bit of damage to flesh and bone as evidenced by several pics of said damage on the net. The Rapto is a great heli that meets your criteria very well - I have a Raptor 50 myself. The only other advice if you are going to be flying at a club is to see what the club members are flying. I started out with A Century Hawk - I still maintain that this is a great heli with advantages and disadvantages over the Raptor. The problem was that my club was almost all Raptor. Whilst no one was openly unhelpful I did feel that I wasn't one of the club because I hadn't gone for their heli of choice. When I changed to a Raptor I found the club got a whole lot friendlier - there was plenty of hands on practical experience - and if I do have any minor problems during the day I guarantee that someone has the spare that I need to keep me in the air for the rest of the day. So check out the favourite flavour down the club and go with that. Cheers, Nigel >> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too quickly. >> I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer flight times [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Fritz > When I changed to a Raptor I found the club got a whole lot friendlier - > there was plenty of hands on practical experience - and if I do have any [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Nigel That's something that's always gotten me. Why some folks are so intimidated by a machine that's not exactly like theirs. For the most part, a helicopter is a helicopter is a helicopter. Yes, there are different designs out there, difference control configurations but collective is still collective and cyclic is still cyclic. Be it a Raptor, X-Cell, Robbe/Schluter, Vario, Kyosho, Hirobo, Kalt, Century, 30 size, 60 size, 90 size, or anything else you care to name, the basic control setup procedures are pretty much the same. Center the servos, center bell cranks and linkages, center the swashplate in it's travel, and set the appropriate collective pitch. Make sure all controls work smoothly and in the correct direction without binding at the extremes and go fly! :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. I don't think they are intimidated - I think they are a little affronted - "Why didn't you get the heli we advised" - "Thought you wanted to be in our club, why are you being different". It's not right but if they are the guys with the experience and expertise that you want to take advantage of sometimes it is just better to "bend with the wind". Cheers, Nigel Fritz, Thanks for your recommendation, and thanks to everyone else that responded (Gary, funfly3, Nigel, and Steve) - lots of good info here. I've spent the day checking web sites for the items you have all listed. Steve R (here in Texas) sent an e-mail that I need to answer now, so thanks again to everyone - I've made a list of the kits and accessories that each of you mentioned. Time for some serious research! bob baldwin bob-baldwin@tamu.edu wa5jot@suddenlink.net bryan/college station, texas >> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too >> quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Fritz Hey Fritz! I took your advice and ordered the Titan kit with 401 combo gyro, 9252 servos, Hyper engine and DX7. When the radio came in, it turned out to be a mode 1, so it's been sent back for exchange. The heli is ready for the radio/servo installation, so just waiting for the replacement DX7 to arrive. I used raptortechnique.com to help with the assembly - much of the manual was not clear to me at all. Still have a list of things to order before I can even start the thing, so I'd better place an order soon. Thanks again for everyone that offered advice and opinions. bob baldwin bryan/college station, texas >> I would prefer a large outdoor model that I wouldn't outgrow too >> quickly. I have been told to go with nitro because of the longer [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Fritz Bob, I'm going to email you on this one! Steve R. >I want to start flying rc helicopters, but have no one to help me get >started. Can anyone recommend a kit that will help me learn the basics of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > bryan/college station, texas I've had a Century Hawk for about 18 months and up to recently I've bee struggling. My helpful model shop set it up for me initially but sinc then I've been practically on my own. Last Christmas I had a Twiste Medevac as a present. At the cost of quite a few spare blades, and wit quite a bit of practice in the garden on a calm day, I can now fly it i figure 8's and even managed a nose-in hover. A couple of days ago, took the Hawk again to the club flying field and immediately felt muc more confident. I found I could do most of what I had been doing wit the Medevac, although I didn't have the nerve to try a nose-in hover One thing - the Hawk seemed far more sensitive than the Twister t cyclic control inputs. Would you experts advise some exponential on th fore/aft and lateral cyclic, or should I persevere without it -- Hugh |
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