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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / March 2008More cyclic power
I have a Raptor 50, which is completely stock, except for a pair of carbon main blades. Now that I have started trying out some aerobatics, I find I want more cyclic response. I have tried some 3D models in the simulator, and they are MUCH more responsive. What do I change to get more cyclic response? Should I make other changes when starting aerobatics? I have read about stiffer dampers to avoid boom strikes in the air.  SignatureRoRo >I have a Raptor 50, which is completely stock, except for a pair of >carbon main blades. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Should I make other changes when starting aerobatics? I have read >about stiffer dampers to avoid boom strikes in the air. You can start by removing any flybar weights and replacing the stock paddles with some nice light ones. How much cyclic pitch is available?? How's the headspeed? Stiffer head dampers will help to "sharpen" the cyclic response. >You can start by removing any flybar weights and replacing the stock >paddles with some nice light ones. There are no weights. I tried some lighter (white, 25g) paddles today. It helped, but I want more. I also bought some green, 20g ones. Have installed them now, but have not flown them yet. Stock paddles weigh 30g. >How much cyclic pitch is available?? I have not measured. I am not even sure how to measure. I have used recommended servo horn lengths, so it should be pretty standard. >How's the headspeed? Used to be governed at 1700. Increased to 1850 yesterday. It made only a small difference. >Stiffer head dampers will help to "sharpen" the cyclic response. Sounds perfect. I have bought some stiffer dampers, but I have not installed them yet. Thanks for your input. SignatureRoRo > I have not measured. I am not even sure how to measure. I have used > recommended servo horn lengths, so it should be pretty standard. Put your pitch gauge on the main blades and set the collective to 0 degrees. Then simply line up the rotor head as appropriate and read the blade defection for left/right and for/aft cyclic. A +/- 5 degrees will give a pretty sedate cyclic response on most birds I've flown. If you can increase the tilt of the swashplate to around the +/- 7 degree point that should help. Just make sure, after you do the adjustments, that none of the ball links on the flybar, main blade pitch arms, and washout unit are binding/hitting anything at maximum control input. As long as they're not, you're good to go. >>How's the headspeed? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks for your input. Since the increase in rotor speed didn't help that much, changing to the harder dampers should make a difference. Let us know how it goes. Good luck, Steve R. >Since the increase in rotor speed didn't help that much, changing to the >harder dampers should make a difference. Let us know how it goes. I haven't had my 1st cup (pot?) of coffee yet this morning, but flybar length has an effect on cyclic response as well. I just forget if longer = faster or shorter = faster. Common sense is telling me longer=faster tho... >>Since the increase in rotor speed didn't help that much, changing to the >>harder dampers should make a difference. Let us know how it goes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > longer = faster or shorter = faster. Common sense is telling me > longer=faster tho... Is the correct answer:) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >> I have not measured. I am not even sure how to measure. I have used >> recommended servo horn lengths, so it should be pretty standard. > >Put your pitch gauge on the main blades and set the collective to 0 degrees. >Then simply line up the rotor head as appropriate and read the blade >defection for left/right and for/aft cyclic. It seems to me, that will only measure the Bell portion of the input, and therefore only be valuable as a comparison against others who have the same rotor head? >A +/- 5 degrees will give a >pretty sedate cyclic response on most birds I've flown. It's difficult to get accurate measurements with my gauge, but it seems I have around 6-8 degrees. >If you can increase >the tilt of the swashplate to around the +/- 7 degree point that should >help. Just make sure, after you do the adjustments, that none of the ball >links on the flybar, main blade pitch arms, and washout unit are >binding/hitting anything at maximum control input. As long as they're not, >you're good to go. I'll see how far it can go. But I'll try the stiffer dampers first. SignatureRoRo >>> I have not measured. I am not even sure how to measure. I have used >>> recommended servo horn lengths, so it should be pretty standard. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and therefore only be valuable as a comparison against others who have > the same rotor head? That's true, but it's the only way you can actually measure cyclic throws. What the flybar is doing to the main blades cyclic movements is effected by the size of the paddles, the shape of the paddles, and the weight of the paddles, the length of the flybar, the stiffness of the flybar, main rotor rpm, etc.! In other words, there's no way to really know. So, you measure the bell side of things because it's a fixed entity and you work from there. Increasing cyclic throws to the main blades will be doing the same thing to the flybar too. It all works together although in some situations, the flybar is actually fighting against the commanded cyclic inputs. That's why the flybar can help stabilize the rotor system as well as make it more twitchy. It's all in the setup! Fly Safe, Steve R. >>You can start by removing any flybar weights and replacing the stock >>paddles with some nice light ones. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > installed them now, but have not flown them yet. Stock paddles weigh > 30g. I personally like the lightweight .50 size Miniature Aircraft paddles: They're as light as the TT greens, but have a sharper (and therefore more agressive) leading edge. I've also been quite pleased with the V-blade paddles. The paddle's airfoil can play as much of a role as the weight of the paddle. If you want to play with weights, try a set of Hirobo Sceadu paddles. These have two weights in each you can remove, so you can play with four different paddle weights without having to change paddles. >>How much cyclic pitch is available?? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks for your input. SignatureTroy Telford On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:41:12 +0200, I wrote: >There are no weights. I tried some lighter (white, 25g) paddles today. >It helped, but I want more. I also bought some green, 20g ones. Have >installed them now, but have not flown them yet. Stock paddles weigh >30g. Finally got a chance to try the green ones. They are quite a bit faster, but the response is still quite soft and smooth. I want more direct, or "crisp" response. I expect the stiffer dampers is what I need. Will install them now. SignatureRoRo Robert Roland schrieb: > On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:41:12 +0200, I wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > direct, or "crisp" response. I expect the stiffer dampers is what I > need. Will install them now. Maybe you need to change (upgrade) the pitchservo too. Tom >Maybe you need to change (upgrade) the pitchservo too. If the new dampers don't give the desired result, I'll try that. I have all JR DS811 servos. I was told they are plenty strong enough for the R50. SignatureRoRo On Sun, 27 May 2007 11:07:08 +0200, I wrote: >I expect the stiffer dampers is what I >need. Will install them now. While installing the dampers, I re-discovered (have noticed them before, but completely forgotten about them) an extra pair of holes in a lever just above the swash plate. This allows the link balls to be moved a little outwards to give the flybar more throw. The manual recommends the inner holes for "normal and 3D", and the outer for "extreme 3D". That will be the next experiment if needed. SignatureRoRo On Tue, 29 May 2007 15:24:56 +0200, I wrote: >While installing the dampers, I re-discovered (have noticed them >before, but completely forgotten about them) an extra pair of holes in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >That will be the next experiment if needed. After having flown the Raptor 50 for a while and being completely satisfied with the performance, I bought an Align T-rex 450. That little bugger is unbelievably responsive, but still smooth and stable to hover with ease. After a few flights with the T-rex, the Raptor felt so slow and sluggish, I decided to try the "extreme" setting. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The Raptor is now so quick on the cyclic, I prefer to reduce the throw to about 70% for hovering. I suspect, however, that it is important to have the stiffer dampers installed when flying with this much cyclic power. Otherwise, the risk of a boom strike might be too high. SignatureRoRo On Sun, 27 May 2007 11:07:08 +0200, I wrote: >Finally got a chance to try the green ones. They are quite a bit >faster, but the response is still quite soft and smooth. I want more >direct, or "crisp" response. I expect the stiffer dampers is what I >need. Will install them now. Got the red, harder dampers in the air at last (at least I'm not wearing the machine out very fast:-). I'm very pleased with the result. The roll rate increased only a little, but the feel is much better: A more direct and quick response to the cyclic stick. Just what I was looking for. I'm gonna leave it like this for a while. Thanks to everyone who helped out. SignatureRoRo |
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