> Both are useless when there is an ugly glicht.
> PCM has as mutch glitch as ppm receiver. It just hide it betther. There
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>>
>> Jack
>There have been many, many, conversations/arguments through the years about
>the pros and cons of PCM vs PPM. Dingo is right that PCM is better at
>covering up such problems. Many think the problem should be identified and
>corrected instead of relying on the technology to cover it up.
I'm beginning to get REALLY irritated with people who think the new
2.4GHz systems are the solution to all glitching problems. It seems
every time someone mentions a glitching problem, the answer is "Get a
DX7!" IMO, the solution is proper electronics installation, not
technology.
>That's all
>well and good but I've seen a number of instances through the years where
>perfectly good models were lost because of interference problems with PPM
>system that couldn't be identified in time.
I run PCM on all my helis (except for my Blade CP) and a mix of PCM
and PPM on my planks. I've had *ZERO* noticable glitches with any of
these setups, but I take great pains to route wiring to try and
minimize any chances of glitching.
>OK, so PCM just covers it up and doesn't correct the interference. If
>you're not having any control issues, who cares? I've been flying PCM
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>failure. I'll never know. BTW, these two examples happened over a 20 year
>period! I don't think I can complain about that! :-)
I'd be willing to bet you don't just chuck the electronics in the
model, slap on a few zip ties to keep the wires away from the moving
parts and go fly and as such, you're probably doing much like I do to
minimize the possibility of interference.
>As for the fail safe on PCM not saving the model in the event of a lock out,
>it's true that you shouldn't count on that happening. However, I've had two
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>unusual situation but it saved them model and gave me a chance to figure out
>what was wrong.
I know a LOT of people who don't fail safe. Fail safe has saved my
Trex450SEV2 twice now - on a DX7 setup! Twice I've lost all
communication with the model as it's spooling up and both times the
model went to 0 throttle and 0 pitch. I disassembled and reassembled
the heli after the 1st issue and the 1st time I tried spooling up
after the rebuild, I lost communications. (Horizon had the gear for a
couple weeks and couldn't find anything wrong.)
This very same heli, on a PCM setup with my Futaba 9C flew dozens of
times without an issue until the 2.4Ghz setup was installed. I don't
fly this bird in any way but hovering because I don't trust the radio
gear.
Again, IMO, throwing different technology at it isn't the solution. I
DO like the 2.4GHz idea as frequency issues will no longer be an
issue, but regardless of the setup, do what you can with your
installation to minimize the potential for glitching.
>The second situation involved a guy I was teaching to fly and we were buddy
>boxing his Stinger 30. We fail safed his system like I describe above. He
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>collective to a point that won't support flight but still cause the rotor to
>tend to slow down, it probably would have helped to minimize the damage.
I never even considered the auto-off feature when buddy boxing. I'm
going to file that one away for future reference...
Steve R - 20 Sep 2007 23:47 GMT
>>There have been many, many, conversations/arguments through the years
>>about
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> I never even considered the auto-off feature when buddy boxing. I'm
> going to file that one away for future reference...
Obviously, I never thought about it either. Apparently, it only looks at
the sticks on the instructors radio and doesn't see the control movements
made by the student radio. In fact, it had been so long since I'd even
looked at the feature I'd forgotten it was there. It took a while to figure
out exactly what had happened. It hadn't been an issue before because I was
reflexively moving my sticks in response to what he was doing with the model
so the shut off timer never became an issue. I'd been with this student
long enough to get comfortable with what he was likely to do so I wasn't
following his controls any more and that's when we got in trouble. Live and
learn!
Actually, I discovered that it's better to "not" try to "fly" the model
while the student has control. The scenario is, he's flying along, I'd be
following him with my controls. He'd finally get in trouble and I'd be
holding things hard over to correct except that I hadn't taken control of
the model yet by releasing the trainer switch. When I finally did release
the trainer switch, the model would jump in the direction of my control
inputs and then it would be a PIO dance until I caught up with myself on the
controls. All of this, the student loosing control to my taking control,
happens within the space of seconds. Anyway, I found that if I simply put
the throttle/collective to a spot sure to maintain altitude (assuming the
model is level) and leave everything else at a neutral position, when he
does screw up, I release the trainer switch and all flight controls go
neutral. The model then quits rolling and/or pitching and/or yawing and
momentarily stabilizes at whatever attitude it's in when the trainer switch
is released. I can then apply the necessary corrective inputs to get it
back right and the process goes "much" more smoothly than when I tried to
"fly" it with the student.
Just a little trick that works for me in case anyone's interested. Buddy
boxing an up and coming helicopter pilot is a relatively rare thing in my
experience. I've had a great time doing it and have learned a lot in the
process.
FWIW! :-)
Fly Safe,
Steve R.
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 21 Sep 2007 18:19 GMT
>Obviously, I never thought about it either. Apparently, it only looks at
>the sticks on the instructors radio and doesn't see the control movements
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>following his controls any more and that's when we got in trouble. Live and
>learn!
I wonder if all manufacturers rigs are set up like that.. I'll have
to look at the manual for my 9C and my DX7 (hate that POS btw) and
check it out.
Steve R - 21 Sep 2007 23:45 GMT
>>Obviously, I never thought about it either. Apparently, it only looks at
>>the sticks on the instructors radio and doesn't see the control movements
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> to look at the manual for my 9C and my DX7 (hate that POS btw) and
> check it out.
I have no experience with other manufacturers so I can't say. I would
expect that my experience with the 9Z in this situation would be common to
all Futaba systems but I'd verify it with the 9C (or any other Futaba radio
for that matter) before finding out the hard way.
What is it that you don't like about the DX7? Most folks I've talked to
that have them, can't say enough good about them. People that are used to
the upper level Futaba and JR systems generally miss the programming
features that those radios offer and the DX7 doesn't but for the most part,
they seem very happy with the radio.
Just curious. :-)
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 24 Sep 2007 16:58 GMT
>I have no experience with other manufacturers so I can't say. I would
>expect that my experience with the 9Z in this situation would be common to
>all Futaba systems but I'd verify it with the 9C (or any other Futaba radio
>for that matter) before finding out the hard way.
I was working on the Raptor last night and several times I had the
radio on, but untouched for at least 15 mins and it never shut off...
I didn't even think to check for a shutoff timer while I was fiddling.
>What is it that you don't like about the DX7? Most folks I've talked to
>that have them, can't say enough good about them. People that are used to
>the upper level Futaba and JR systems generally miss the programming
>features that those radios offer and the DX7 doesn't but for the most part,
>they seem very happy with the radio.
The feel of the Tx is cheesy. It feels like the Interlink controller
that comes with Real Flight.
The balance of the thing is horrendous if you use a neck strap.
I've had a few runaways with this thing and just don't trust it.
Horizon gave it (and the Rx) a clean bill of health. Tried another Rx
and lost comms with the heli again. It's not the Rx reset issue
becasue once I lose comms, it's 30-60 seconds before I get it back.
I've never had an issue with any of my 72MHz setups