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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / April 2008+/- 9.5 degrees.. enough?
The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 from Skyline which will hopefully be here today. If I'm reading the pitch gauge right, then I've got pretty much 9.5 degrees pitch each way. (collective.. I haven't done any measuring of cyclic throw on top of that, if that makes any sense). Is this enough? It's nicely 0-degrees at center stick, so I don't think messing with linkrods will make any useful difference. I suppose the only way to increase it evenly both ways would be to move out a bit on all three of the servo arms. Should I be looking for more pitch? I can't see that I'd use it right away but the chappie whose videos I had a look at ("Finless Bob from helifreak") seems to go for 11 degrees, and he says other people go for 12! whaddaya think? cheers > The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 from > Skyline which will hopefully be here today. > > If I'm reading the pitch gauge right, then I've got pretty much 9.5 > degrees pitch each way. (collective.. I haven't done any measuring of > cyclic throw on top of that, if that makes any sense). Is this enough? Do you intend flying around upside down doing evrything you can when it's the right way up? If so, you've just about got enough. If you DON'T intend flying around upside down doing all the things you can do when it's the right way up, youo've got too much negative and not enough positive to effect a good autorotational landing. > It's nicely 0-degrees at center stick, so I don't think messing with > linkrods will make any useful difference. I suppose the only way to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > whaddaya think? 12 positive and 12 neg. Then you can REALLY hammer it into the ground and give absolutely NO thought as to the repair costs, coz there won't BE any. The heli will be deader than 3 litre Supra, so burial or a funeral pyre are the only options.  SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >> The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 from >> Skyline which will hopefully be here today. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > right way up, youo've got too much negative and not enough positive to > effect a good autorotational landing. Ah, well... I sort of figured I would have to get the mechanical travel to be equal in the extremes, then use the ATVs or swash mixing whatever it is to set bottom-stick to -2 or whatever it needs to be in Normal flight mode, -8 or -10 or whatever in idle-up 1 and 2. Am I way off base? >> It's nicely 0-degrees at center stick, so I don't think messing with >> linkrods will make any useful difference. I suppose the only way to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The heli will be deader than 3 litre Supra, so burial or a funeral pyre are > the only options. lol ;) >>> The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 from >>> Skyline which will hopefully be here today. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > to set bottom-stick to -2 or whatever it needs to be in Normal flight > mode, -8 or -10 or whatever in idle-up 1 and 2. Am I way off base? Somewhat. You use the pitch and threottle curves to tune the collective range and throttle response. Not ATV. >>> It's nicely 0-degrees at center stick, so I don't think messing with >>> linkrods will make any useful difference. I suppose the only way to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > lol ;) You were warned then and you're being warned now. Your heli WILL die unless you pull your head in wrt collective range. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >>>> The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 from >>>> Skyline which will hopefully be here today. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Somewhat. You use the pitch and threottle curves to tune the collective > range and throttle response. Not ATV. Yeah I realised that later on. I now have 11 degrees maximum mechanical each way, and curves set to give -2 to +11 or something in Normal mode, and mostly full range in idle up. Thing is though, on the sim I'm only ever using idle-up.. Even for flips & rolls, that -2 neg isn't enough to stop the heli falling to the ground when its upside down mid-flip. > You were warned then and you're being warned now. Your heli WILL die unless > you pull your head in wrt collective range. OK ;) You're the boss! >>>>> The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 >>>>> from Skyline which will hopefully be here today. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > ever using idle-up.. Even for flips & rolls, that -2 neg isn't enough to > stop the heli falling to the ground when its upside down mid-flip. Well it won't be will it?. A heli requires around 4 or 5 degrees to stay up in a hover, so it'll need the same amount (in negative) to keep from dropping halfway through a flip. >> You were warned then and you're being warned now. Your heli WILL die >> unless you pull your head in wrt collective range. > > OK ;) You're the boss! And don't you f.cking forget it :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 > The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 from > Skyline which will hopefully be here today. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > cheers I agree with Beav's comments. +/- 9.5 will work for routine flying around and general 3D work. If you want to get really aggressive with it, you'll probably be happier with more. As for autorotations, the T-Rex and other similar birds are marginal in autos with 12 degrees. 9.5 won't even slow it down much! ;-) To get more collective throw, going to longer servo arms will certainly do it. You can also look at our swash mixing numbers. They default at 50% for ail, eel, and pitch. You can try running the pitch number up to 60 or 65% and see what that does for you. Depending on how you're setup mechanically, it may not take much but if 65% doesn't give you what you need, I'd go out a hole on the servo arms. Good luck and let us know how it goes! Fly Safe, Steve R. >> The T-Rex is all put together now, just waiting on the Futaba S9257 >> from Skyline which will hopefully be here today. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. I like the idea of that.. i.e I understand it and it seems to make sense to me. Am I correct in that I should be looking for this sort of mechanical pitch (+/- 12 or whatever), and then using my pitch curves to actually set usable pitch ranges in the various flight modes? I took the heli out for its maiden hover in the back yard before, having not yet set my pitch curves, so it was -9.5 bottom stick, 0 mid stick and +9.5 full stick. It hovered nice enough, although a little touchy on the collective for a newbie like me :) There didn't seem to be much cyclic response at all, which is probably good for learning hovering. I'm guessing that's because I have the flybar weights all the way out on the flybar. I'm quite happy anyway. Or at least I was once I hit the 401's reverse button after its initial spiral of madness. Fit/finish of the T-Rex's parts isn't great. It's the SE V2 and there's a lot of play around the head/swashplate/mixers, too much to even remotely think it's a high quality thing (which I thought it was..). Nevermind. Everybody say they still fly well regardless. >> To get more collective throw, going to longer servo arms will certainly >> do [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > mechanical pitch (+/- 12 or whatever), and then using my pitch curves to > actually set usable pitch ranges in the various flight modes? Absolutely! Probably the motor won't comfortably pull 12 degrees of pitch but I bet it'll come close. I'm running around 11 degrees on my HDX450 which is essentially a T-Rex clone You'll have to experiment around to figure that out. All you wind up doing is running 90% (or whatever) on the pitch curves to tone it down a bit but it's nice to have the mechanical 12 degree for autorotation time. > I took the heli out for its maiden hover in the back yard before, having > not yet set my pitch curves, so it was -9.5 bottom stick, 0 mid stick and > +9.5 full stick. It hovered nice enough, although a little touchy on the > collective for a newbie like me :) With a mirrored collective (-9.5 / 0 / +9.5) you're hovering around the 3/4 stick point. That means the collective curve is a bit compressed relative to what it would be if you were flying the old standard (-4 / +4-5 / +10) curve and hovering at half stick. I know some pilots that fly the mirrored program all the time but I'm of the old school (pre-computer radio days) and prefer hovering at half stick. Probably, you'll like the collective feel better when you finalize your collective setup. > There didn't seem to be much cyclic response at all, which is probably > good for learning hovering. I'm guessing that's because I have the flybar > weights all the way out on the flybar. Considering that you're not pushing the collective range limits, it's likely that you're pretty soft on the cyclic throws too. I've run the swash mixing as high as 65% for all functions without issues. You just need to make sure you're not binding servos and/or swashplate controls in the process. Also, I think the standard flybar paddles on T-Rex's are relatively conservative. There are lighter versions out there that will speed up your cyclic responses when you think you're ready for that. :-) > I'm quite happy anyway. Or at least I was once I hit the 401's reverse > button after its initial spiral of madness. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt! :-D Fly Safe, Steve R. >>> To get more collective throw, going to longer servo arms will >>> certainly do [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > whatever) on the pitch curves to tone it down a bit but it's nice to > have the mechanical 12 degree for autorotation time. Well, I now have +/-11 degrees mechanically, and that leaves just enough room on the washout nut or whatever its called, for me to accidentally knock the hover-pitch lever on the side of the tx. If I push the hover-pitch lever all the way up along with full collective, there's literally a hairs width of room left, so I can't go any further without messing with blade grip linkrods, which I don't want to do anyway because it'll affect the pitch non-uniformly. So I think I'm good to go with working out my pitch curves now. Enabling throttle hold on the TX turned out to be useful.. much easier than swapping to an rx battery pack everytime. Thanks for your help, and you Beav ;) >Well, I now have +/-11 degrees mechanically, and that leaves just enough >room on the washout nut or whatever its called, for me to accidentally [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >messing with blade grip linkrods, which I don't want to do anyway >because it'll affect the pitch non-uniformly. Turn that hover pitch trim off... It only adds one more thing to jack with you... I run +/-12 on two 450SEs with the 430L & 13T pinion and good 25C packs. I do get a bit of bog at the extremes, but since I RARELY get there, it isn't an issue for the most part. My V2 with the 430LX motor and the same setup is much stronger, but eats the batteries quicker with a full minute less flight time available. >So I think I'm good to go with working out my pitch curves now. >Enabling throttle hold on the TX turned out to be useful.. much easier >than swapping to an rx battery pack everytime. Still a VERY good idea to disconnect one motor wire. The motor make half a turn should hold fail (or if you forget to turn it on) but not with enough force to do anything. ) >>Well, I now have +/-11 degrees mechanically, and that leaves just enough >>room on the washout nut or whatever its called, for me to accidentally [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > half a turn should hold fail (or if you forget to turn it on) but not > with enough force to do anything. Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors produce maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for that crack to REALLY f.cking hurt. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 > Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors produce > maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for that crack to > REALLY f.cking hurt. Do I detect a "been there, done that" scenario? ;-) >> Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors produce >> maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for that crack >> to REALLY f.cking hurt. > > Do I detect a "been there, done that" scenario? ;-) Like I said to a friend, "I've never known ANYONE who owns an electric helicopter not get slapped by it". And I haven't. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >>> Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors produce >>> maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for that crack [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Like I said to a friend, "I've never known ANYONE who owns an electric > helicopter not get slapped by it". And I haven't. thats what the throttle hold switch is for :-) SignatureKevin R Reply address works >>>> Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors >>>> produce maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > thats what the throttle hold switch is for :-) That would require setting first though. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >>>>> Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors >>>>> produce maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That would require setting first though. mind you I nearly lost a ear with a little 400 powered glider I had on the bench, when I tried out the servo test on my Futaba 9c it was ok until it throttled up to full arming the Ripmax ESC then back down to low and as it went back up again it shot past my ear surprising how quick just the fuselage is with out the wings :-) SignatureKevin R Reply address works "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in news:PRrFj.15063$jH5.731 @newsfe3-win.ntli.net: > Like I said to a friend, "I've never known ANYONE who owns an electric > helicopter not get slapped by it". And I haven't. Does flying into yourself count? If not, then I'm clear...so far... But then, I've only been at this about 3 months. Brian Signaturehttp://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in news:PRrFj.15063$jH5.731 > @newsfe3-win.ntli.net: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Does flying into yourself count? If not, then I'm clear...so far... It counts. I've done that myself too and still have the scars and it was a 60 powered X-cell, not a little eleccy thing. > But then, I've only been at this about 3 months. Plenty of time to do some REAL damage yet then :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in >> news:PRrFj.15063$jH5.731 @newsfe3-win.ntli.net: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It counts. I've done that myself too and still have the scars and it was > a 60 powered X-cell, not a little eleccy thing. Yeah....I've been reading here long enough to know your opinion of "little eleccy things". hehehehe :) Anyway, it did more harm to the toy than to me. >> But then, I've only been at this about 3 months. > > Plenty of time to do some REAL damage yet then :-) Oh gee....thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm looking towards my next machine, most likely a Blade 400. I'm having "issues" with rudder authority on my CPPro, as in lack thereof. Belt drive should help that. Brian Signaturehttp://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? >>> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in >>> news:PRrFj.15063$jH5.731 @newsfe3-win.ntli.net: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Yeah....I've been reading here long enough to know your opinion > of "little eleccy things". hehehehe :) I love 'em, I just wouldn't marry one. > Anyway, it did more harm to the toy than to me. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with rudder authority on my CPPro, as in lack thereof. Belt drive > should help that. I hate belt drives too :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in news:8LqGj.13668$Ff4.3498 @newsfe5-win.ntli.net: > I hate belt drives too :-) Definately not prejudiced, I see. You hate all equally. :) Now if only the wind would die down so I could get some flight time. Brian Signaturehttp://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in news:8LqGj.13668$Ff4.3498 > @newsfe5-win.ntli.net: > >> I hate belt drives too :-) > > Definately not prejudiced, I see. You hate all equally. :) Firm, but fair. That's me :-) > Now if only the wind would die down so I could get some flight time. But then you could EASILY damage something. Best to stay home, watch TV and perchance have some wild sex with a relative. The wife preferably. (yours not mone) Sister, mother, brother and father excluded, naturally. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 Glad to see you still keeping the blighters in check Beav. It's been a long time Guvnor. Bet you don't even know who this is? Is Nick still abouts? >> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in >> news:8LqGj.13668$Ff4.3498 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and perchance have some wild sex with a relative. The wife preferably. > (yours not mone) Sister, mother, brother and father excluded, naturally. > Glad to see you still keeping the blighters in check Beav. It's been a > long time Guvnor. Bet you don't even know who this is? Well you're not exactly ladling out f.cking clues are you? E@ f.cking E dot E ffs? Is Nick still abouts? Not for a LONG time. I'm assuming Nick Salmon? SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 Yes Seaman Salmon. It's Osi the Nigerian disaster. >> Glad to see you still keeping the blighters in check Beav. It's been a >> long time Guvnor. Bet you don't even know who this is? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Not for a LONG time. I'm assuming Nick Salmon? > Yes Seaman Salmon. Aye, as I say, long gone. > It's Osi the Nigerian disaster. Oh bugger :-) How're you doing? Not involved in any of the famous Nigerian scams I hope:-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 Doin great Beav. Moved my wagon from SoCal to Texas so trying to blend in. I'm going to be posting some questions on sorting out my Raptor 30 / JR 9303 radio. I left the hobby for a while and I am now back. >> Yes Seaman Salmon. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > How're you doing? Not involved in any of the famous Nigerian scams I > hope:-) > Doin great Beav. Moved my wagon from SoCal to Texas so trying to blend in. > > I'm going to be posting some questions on sorting out my Raptor 30 / JR > 9303 radio. I left the hobby for a while and I am now back. Hey Osi, where in Texas are you? We've got a pretty good group on the south side of Houston. We fly at the Texas City RC club in Galveston Co. If you're anywhere close, maybe we could get together sometime! If you're interested, let me know and I'll post directions! :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. >> Doin great Beav. Moved my wagon from SoCal to Texas so trying to blend >> in. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you're anywhere close, maybe we could get together sometime! If you're > interested, let me know and I'll post directions! :-) Get a room :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 Now that's the one liner Beav I remember - lol. >>> Doin great Beav. Moved my wagon from SoCal to Texas so trying to blend >>> in. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Get a room :-) Hi Steve, I am in Far North Dallas, actually an hour from the Oklahoma border. My first order of the day is getting two stalk switches that broke off of my radio replaced. Any thoughts on local outfits that can assist with this? Thanks Guys. >> Doin great Beav. Moved my wagon from SoCal to Texas so trying to blend >> in. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. > Hi Steve, I am in Far North Dallas, actually an hour from the Oklahoma > border. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks Guys. Oops, sorry, I'm not that familiar with hobby resourses in the Dallas area. I'm about a 5.5 hour drive from you. Texas City is right on the Gulf Coast across from Galveston island or about 45 miles south of Houston, which ever way helps you visualize it. :-) If you're ever down our way, give us a holler! Fly Safe, Steve R. > Doin great Beav. Moved my wagon from SoCal to Texas so trying to blend in. And that'll take what, 20 years? :) > I'm going to be posting some questions on sorting out my Raptor 30 / JR > 9303 radio. I left the hobby for a while and I am now back. You are the governator and I claim my fi' dollars. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >>> Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors >>> produce maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Like I said to a friend, "I've never known ANYONE who owns an electric > helicopter not get slapped by it". And I haven't. Well, so far, my HDX 450 has been kind to me in that regard. It's never so much as twitched on me. Hope I didn't just jinx myself! :-) Steve R. >>>> Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors >>>> produce maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hope I didn't just jinx myself! :-) Be afraid :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >Like I said to a friend, "I've never known ANYONE who owns an electric >helicopter not get slapped by it". And I haven't. I own 8 of the little electric buggers and have never been slapped, spanked, folded, spindled and/or mutilated by one. Wish I could say the same of terra-firma. :) >>Like I said to a friend, "I've never known ANYONE who owns an electric >>helicopter not get slapped by it". And I haven't. > > I own 8 of the little electric buggers and have never been slapped, > spanked, folded, spindled and/or mutilated by one. Wish I could say > the same of terra-firma. :) You're not dead yet Kev, so there's still time :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >>> Well, I now have +/-11 degrees mechanically, and that leaves just enough >>> room on the washout nut or whatever its called, for me to accidentally [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for that crack to > REALLY f.cking hurt. not sure brushless do, brushed do produced a good starting torque not going to try and prove it though :-) SignatureKevin R Reply address works >Other than give you a nice crack around the head. Electric motors produce >maximum torque at minimum rev's, so there's power enough for that crack to >REALLY f.cking hurt. Try it with only 2 wires connected. It'll barely budge if at all and there's no force behind it... >> Well, I now have +/-11 degrees mechanically, and that leaves just enough >> room on the washout nut or whatever its called, for me to accidentally [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Turn that hover pitch trim off... It only adds one more thing to jack > with you... I would love to. It bugs the hell out of me!! It's so easily knocked every time I use the TX. I'll read the manual to see if it's switchoffable. cheers! >I agree with Beav's comments. +/- 9.5 will work for routine flying around >and general 3D work. If you want to get really aggressive with it, you'll >probably be happier with more. As for autorotations, the T-Rex and other >similar birds are marginal in autos with 12 degrees. 9.5 won't even slow it >down much! ;-) Naw.. 450s are tricky to auto, but I've pulled 'em with 10 degrees.. You just need to manage headspeed on the way down, flare hard without ballooning to drive the headspeed up and don't waste any time getting it on the ground once you've flared. With the 600, it doesn't take much collective "pull" at the bottom to auto... |
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