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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / April 2008Weird problem flying sideways on sim. Heli flicks itself around 45-degrees towards heading.
(on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels yesterday and doing OKish.. (OK, I was well chuffed..) I sort of started doing them by accident whilst practicing sharp (heli on side) turns. Anyway, what's happening now is that I fly the heli sideways, like a fast sideways drift, and then all of a sudden the heli flicks itself around so that it's facing the way it's heading. So for example I have the heli moving sideways to the left, at fairly high speed, then it just goes "flick" and all of a sudden it's flying forwards but in the same direction. Is this normal? Has the tail authority been overcome or something. Can't think why it wasn't a problem yesterday when I seemed to be doing really well at the funnels. Now I have this problem and I can't seem to do a funnel without the tail going all wrong. Any ideas? > (on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) > This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels yesterday [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Any ideas? I meant 90 degrees. >> (on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) >> This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels yesterday [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I meant 90 degrees. Somebody on Helifreak has complained about "tail blow-out" whilst doing hurricanes, whatever they are. Suggestion is to increase "tail power". I suppose "tail blow-out" kind of sounds like my problem doesn't it? >>> (on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) >>> This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I suppose "tail blow-out" kind of sounds like my problem doesn't it? OK, I know I'm talking to myself here (so far) but it looks like I figured out why I can't do funnels and similar maneuvers any more. I was pushing the sticks the wrong way. Instead of pulling them apart I was doing something else.. wrong tail input I think. I'm back doing funnels again. Thank god for sims! >>>> (on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) >>>> This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels yesterday [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > I'm back doing funnels again. Thank god for sims! Hi Carl, Glad you figured it out, and some think that talking to yourself is a sign of senility! ;-) As for what you were experiencing, if you had been applying the controls correctly and the tail simply wasn't holding, that's what they're calling a "blow out." To try to answer you question on how to increase tail power, on the Phoenix sim, I'm not totally sure. Which model are you flying? I've got the Phoenix too and fly their version of the Synergy almost exclusively and I've never had a control power issue with it but I might not be flying it as aggressively as you are. Anyway, I would imagine that there's someplace in the program where you can increase parameters like the diameter of the tail rotor, tail rotor rpm relative to main rotor rpm, or simply increase the main rotor rpm which (in the real world anyway) would automatically increase the speed of the tail rotor. Any of these things should give you more tail authority just as they would with a real model helicopter. Have fun! Steve R. >>>>> (on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) >>>>> This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels yesterday [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Have fun! > Steve R. Thanks Steve. I'm not so sure now. I think I was giving correct stick, sort of, some of the time, but instead of just doing funnels, I was doing large funnel-like circuits, if that makes any sense. So I was doing big circular circuits, anti-clockwise, but with the heli almost standing on its tail. I think I was anyway.. it doesn't help that I can never remember what I was actually doing! I increased the 'tail power' slider from 100 up to 150 (max) under the model properties, and this helped. I also decreased the tail-fin size, and this helped too. But then I decided that actually, it was just me doing the wrong thing with the sticks. I reverted the model back to normal just now, and I can do funnels perfectly fine, but a big wide sideways circuit thing like before results in a tail blow-out some way around. I guess this is just normal and perhaps all I was ever doing wrong was that I was pushing the heli too hard, and mistakingly thinking I *had* to push it hard just to get a funnel going at all. I'll play with different headspeeds too. Thanks! >>> (on Phoenix, with both the Trex 450 3D and a Raptor 50 3D..) >>> This is bugging the hell out of me. I was practicing funnels yesterday [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >I suppose "tail blow-out" kind of sounds like my problem doesn't it? TR authority is directly related to head speed - not enough head speed, not enough TR thrust. The 450 you want to see a head speed 2800+ RPM assuming you're running the blue TR drive gear. I run my Raptor at 1950 RPM on the mains and don't have any blowout issues. I think what you're seeing isn't a gyro problem, it's a loss of tail rotor effectiveness problem. If you're flying sideways to the left, you're pumping a lot of relative wind through the TR is the same direction as its thrust. Eventually, the relative wind is the same (or greater) velocity as the thrust and voila! No more TR thrust which will windmill the tail back behind the head. Effectively, you've entered vortex ring state on the TR. |
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