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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / May 2008Helipro Blackhawk 500... gone for ever?
Only store in Australia stocking it does not stock the heli anymore. The parts they sell show "out of stock" for some items which is no biggie, we find it hard to get soem stuff that is plentiful in USA or asia etc. BUT I see those are also out of stock on some overseas websites. Has the company gone bust, or are we just experiencing a temporary supply problem? I can get one cheap that has been crashed but I'm learning so I don't want to not be able to get a main shft or feathering shaft etc in 2yrs time Anyone know for sure? I'm trying to learn about the model helicopter hobby. It seems that nearly all the full size helicopter rotor blades turn CCW as viewed from the top. Seems most of the model helicopter blades turn CW. Why is this? When a full size helicopter pilot(as opposed to a midget pilot) tries a model, are his reflexes totally screwed up, or is it easy for them to adjust? There is enough difference between the real thing and a model that it's not usually a big deal. The R/C control system is nothing like the control system used on the real thing, other than perhaps that you generally move an R/C flight control in the direction you want to go. Besides, a decent gyro on the R/C model does most of the tail rotor control. As far as why one direction vs another, there may be a simple reason, such as the "standard" rotation direction of model engines, and the typical gearing. > I'm trying to learn about the model helicopter hobby. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > model, are his reflexes totally screwed up, or is it easy for them to > adjust? >I'm trying to learn about the model helicopter hobby. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >model, are his reflexes totally screwed up, or is it easy for them to >adjust? They're not the same. I'm a rated full scale heli-driver and have no problem flying either the models or the real bird. As for the rotor direction, it's probably due to the direction nitro engines run and the gearing. It was probably easier to mimic this with the electric helis since the head engineering and geometry was already worked out. BTW: Most full scale european helis spin CW. Flying one of those after a US built bird really jacks with your head for a few minutes and then it's biz as usual. >>I'm trying to learn about the model helicopter hobby. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > They're not the same. I'm a rated full scale heli-driver and have no > problem flying either the models or the real bird. Yeah, but that's because you've learned both. Find a person who only flies models and put them in a full size for the first time (or vice versa) and see what happens! Out of curiosity, Kevin, which did you learn to fly first and do you think that being able to fly the one, helped you when you tried to learn the other? > As for the rotor direction, it's probably due to the direction nitro > engines run and the gearing. It was probably easier to mimic this > with the electric helis since the head engineering and geometry was > already worked out. Honestly, I've not thought about it much but I think you're right. I've flown models with CW and CCW rotor system and I didn't have any significant issues with either. I had to pay attention at setup time to make sure my revo mixes were going in the correct direction back when we had mechanical gyros but that's about it. These days, with HH gyros, it's a total non issue. Asside from the fact that the bird lean in opposite directions in a hover, I don't feel much difference! :-) > BTW: Most full scale european helis spin CW. Flying one of those > after a US built bird really jacks with your head for a few minutes > and then it's biz as usual. Interesting when they swap that power pedal, huh? But you figure it out quickly enough! ;-) >Yeah, but that's because you've learned both. Find a person who only flies >models and put them in a full size for the first time (or vice versa) and >see what happens! Out of curiosity, Kevin, which did you learn to fly first >and do you think that being able to fly the one, helped you when you tried >to learn the other? Actually, I did the RC thing 1st back in '93 or so, then stopped everything RC for about 12 years and got back into RC Helis and full scale right about the same time a few years ago. The full scale training didn't help me fly the RC, but it did help with setup/troubleshooting 'cuz I knew the hows and whys of helicopter aerodynamics. >Honestly, I've not thought about it much but I think you're right. I've >flown models with CW and CCW rotor system and I didn't have any significant [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >issue. Asside from the fact that the bird lean in opposite directions in a >hover, I don't feel much difference! :-) I get SOOOO many PMs on Helifreak from newbies who are concerned about the lean in a hover or who can't get a hands-free hover.. They all seem to be really surprised when I tell 'em you actually have to FLY the thing... >Interesting when they swap that power pedal, huh? But you figure it out >quickly enough! ;-) Yeah, especially when you're practicing autos. :) >>Honestly, I've not thought about it much but I think you're right. I've >>flown models with CW and CCW rotor system and I didn't have any [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > seem to be really surprised when I tell 'em you actually have to FLY > the thing... I can imagine! :-) One of my favorites is the paniced questioning I've received after the newbe discovers the wonders of translational lift on a variable wind day. "I was sitting there in a stable hover and the thing shot straight up, and I DIDN'T MOVE ANYTHING!!!!!" Of course, that's followed by the sudden drop after they lower the collective and then mother nature takes the wind away. If the model survives this encounter, the student will start concentrating more on the finer points ouf altitude control! :-D Fly Safe, Steve R. >One of my favorites is the paniced questioning I've received after the newbe >discovers the wonders of translational lift on a variable wind day. "I was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the model survives this encounter, the student will start concentrating more >on the finer points ouf altitude control! :-D I got into a rather heated discussion on RunRyder about two years ago regarding TL and Ground Effect and even after a dozen or so folks chimed in to back my info up, the knucklehead on the other side of the conversation insisted I was wrong and even went so far as to whine to the admins... I especially love the "My heli spins uncontrollably when I pick it up!!" posts. I'm amazed, that with the sheer number of people doing this and the HUGE amounts on help available online, that people still don't check the proper operation of the TR/Gyro. Fuggit! I'll bolt it all together and it'll fly.... >>One of my favorites is the paniced questioning I've received after the >>newbe [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > don't check the proper operation of the TR/Gyro. Fuggit! I'll bolt > it all together and it'll fly.... Kev, it's been like that since Deiter Schluter put the first ever model heli on the market. They're small, ergo, they're toys so they mustn't need any knowledge to operate them.  SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >Kev, it's been like that since Deiter Schluter put the first ever model heli >on the market. They're small, ergo, they're toys so they mustn't need any >knowledge to operate them. and I have one of Dieter's machines in my fleet. (JR50) She's slowly being brought back to flying status and I hope to fly her this summer... >>Kev, it's been like that since Deiter Schluter put the first ever model >>heli [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > being brought back to flying status and I hope to fly her this > summer... Quite an odd "nitro" heli those Kev. They have a teeter head (as most do) with teeter rubbers in the usual place, but those rubbers make the heli fly FAR better if they're in a box in the workshop somewhere. In other words, get them out. They also need near electric heli rotor revs too. Anything less than 2000rpm will result in it being unflyable without a lot of farting about. Don't be tempted to increase the (ridiculously small) rotor diameter by fitting larger blades either, as this will make the Jr fly like dog sh.t. DON'T be trying auto's first time out either, coz they're "not the best" for them:-) They're the Robbie R22A of the model world:-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >Quite an odd "nitro" heli those Kev. They have a teeter head (as most do) >with teeter rubbers in the usual place, but those rubbers make the heli fly >FAR better if they're in a box in the workshop somewhere. In other words, >get them out. and replace 'em with what? Pretty much everything rubber on the thing has disintegrated.. >They also need near electric heli rotor revs too. Anything less than 2000rpm >will result in it being unflyable without a lot of farting about. Yeah, I run my Trex 600s at 2100 RPM.. (and my new Trex 500 is pushin' 2800 hehehe) >Don't be tempted to increase the (ridiculously small) rotor diameter by >fitting larger blades either, as this will make the Jr fly like dog sh.t. >DON'T be trying auto's first time out either, coz they're "not the best" for >them:-) I haven't even considered new mains yet.. I'm still a LONG way from that point. >They're the Robbie R22A of the model world:-) Hey, I like flying those... >>Quite an odd "nitro" heli those Kev. They have a teeter head (as most do) >>with teeter rubbers in the usual place, but those rubbers make the heli [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and replace 'em with what? Pretty much everything rubber on the thing > has disintegrated.. Nothing, just forget about 'em. And no, I'm not joking, they really DO make a pig of the Jr when they're in. >>They also need near electric heli rotor revs too. Anything less than >>2000rpm >>will result in it being unflyable without a lot of farting about. > > Yeah, I run my Trex 600s at 2100 RPM.. (and my new Trex 500 is > pushin' 2800 hehehe) Christ, tings have got faster :-) About 2100 is fine for the Jr. >>Don't be tempted to increase the (ridiculously small) rotor diameter by >>fitting larger blades either, as this will make the Jr fly like dog sh.t. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I haven't even considered new mains yet.. I'm still a LONG way from > that point. Well now you know that fitting larger mains isn't a good option. >>They're the Robbie R22A of the model world:-) > > Hey, I like flying those... With the low inertia blades? SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >Nothing, just forget about 'em. And no, I'm not joking, they really DO make >a pig of the Jr when they're in. I'll give that a go when she's ready to fly again... >Christ, tings have got faster :-) About 2100 is fine for the Jr. I push above 3000 RPM on my little 450s... >Well now you know that fitting larger mains isn't a good option. How about fitting a set of 335s on 'er and spinnin' em at 4k?? :) >With the low inertia blades? Sure.. Not a big deal. I've survived dozens of throttle chops in 'em... And seeing as though CJ accidentally posted a reply to mine....... not a new post...... are there any answers to to my question fellas?? > I'm trying to learn about the model helicopter hobby. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > model, are his reflexes totally screwed up, or is it easy for them to > adjust? > And seeing as though CJ accidentally posted a reply to mine....... not a > new [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> model, are his reflexes totally screwed up, or is it easy for them to >> adjust? Actually, Tsunami, I think "the Other Kevin" answered your question to some degree, at least as it pertains to flying full sized birds. Switching from a CW to a CCW machine will cause some issues with tail control because the reflexes they've developed for controlling the tail rotor on a CW machine are opposite of what they'll need on a CCW machine, but they adjust quickly enough. It's called the incentive plan!! ;-) As for models, that's a different issue. If they know how to fly the model, I don't personally think the rotors direction of rotation makes much difference as I stated in one of my previous responses. If the full size pilot does not know how to fly the RC versions, he/she will have the same issues the rest of us do to one degree or another. As always, it depends on the individuals natural gifts and eye/hand coordination. The advantage the full scale pilot "may" have is more familiarity with the controls (cyclic, collective, tail rotor) and how they interact with each other than a totally green non-pilot would have. However, there's a BIG difference between sitting "in" the helicopter and flying it with your arms, hands, and feet as opposed to standing 15' away from it and attempting to fly it with your fingers and/or thumbs via outside visual references only. Bottom line is, just because you can fly the model, don't automatically assume you can handle the full size birds. Likewise, just because you can fly the full size versions, doesn't mean you'll naturally pick up an RC model. I hope that clarifies things a little! :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. > > And seeing as though CJ accidentally posted a reply to mine....... not a > > new [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Fly Safe, > Steve R. Huh? My Q'n was about HeliPro blackhawk500 spares and if the model is made anymore? I think something funny is happening in newsreaderland or on google groups or whatever as replies are under the wrong thread I think >> > And seeing as though CJ accidentally posted a reply to mine....... not >> > a [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > I think something funny is happening in newsreaderland or on google groups > or whatever as replies are under the wrong thread I think Hmmm, well, I don't know how you got stuck in this one but, the subject line has always been about the direction of rotor blade rotation how that effects the flight characteristics of the model. I don't remember anything about the model you mention here but this one's gone on long enough that that probably doesn't mean much! ;-) Good luck, Steve R. PS: Sorry I can't help you with your question. > Hmmm, well, I don't know how you got stuck in this one but, the subject > line has always been about the direction of rotor blade rotation how > that effects the flight characteristics of the model. I don't remember > anything about the model you mention here but this one's gone on long > enough that that probably doesn't mean much! ;-) I'm not using GG and the thread you mention got lumped under his original post. Perhaps, for some reason, his original post did not propogate to your server, but you did see the reply, which to you appeared as a new thread as it had a new subject as opposed to "re: blah blah". But then, you appear to be using Giganews, which is what I'm on as a corporate outsource customer, so we should be seeing the same thing. Brian Signaturehttp://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? >> Hmmm, well, I don't know how you got stuck in this one but, the subject >> line has always been about the direction of rotor blade rotation how [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Brian Just looking real quick, but I'm seeing the first post by Tsunami with "Helipro Blackhawk 500...gone for ever?" as a subject line. The very next reply by C J Klingman 1 hour later changes the subject line to "Blade Rotation"...What probably happened is an honest accident in that CJ Klingman might have been reading the Blackhawk 500 subject and instead of creating a new post for his topic, he may have inadvertently clicked "reply" and then changed the subject line.... IYM > But then, you appear to be using Giganews, which is what I'm on > as a corporate outsource customer, so we should be seeing the same > thing. > > Brian I don't know if I'm using Gaganews or not. I'm just setup to the what I assumed was a generic newgroup reader that Comcast uses? Oh well....... :-) Fly Safe, Steve R. "Steve R" <srhodes13@comcast.net> wrote in news:1OKdncF- dLOA5pvVnZ2dnUVZ_tCrnZ2d@comcast.com: >> But then, you appear to be using Giganews, which is what I'm on >> as a corporate outsource customer, so we should be seeing the same [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I don't know if I'm using Gaganews or not. I'm just setup to the what I > assumed was a generic newgroup reader that Comcast uses? I can tell from your headers. You're a corporate outsource customer just like me. Our ISP's don't have their own news servers. They've bought a package deal through Giganews to handle it for them. But as IYM stated, I agree that is was likely accidental. Perhaps if you have filters in your news client? I personally don't see enough spam to require filters. I just skip those articles I don't want to read. Brian Signaturehttp://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? >>> > And seeing as though CJ accidentally posted a reply to mine....... not >>> > a [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > line has always been about the direction of rotor blade rotation how that > effects the flight characteristics of the model. That was the 2nd post in the thread Steve and it was made by CJ something. Tsunami's question never got an answer and I cna't help him coz.... well it's an electric heli innit? :-) SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 [snip] > Huh? My Q'n was about HeliPro blackhawk500 spares and if the model is made > anymore? > I think something funny is happening in newsreaderland or on google groups > or whatever as replies are under the wrong thread I think I just Googled it and found the following address for the copter. > http://www.rcbestseller.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/4/products _id/338 And the following for replacement parts. > http://www.nitroplanes.com/hebl500repa.html Found both in about 20 seconds. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I just Googled it and found the following address for the copter. http://www.rcbestseller.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/4/products _id/338 > And the following for replacement parts. > > > http://www.nitroplanes.com/hebl500repa.html > > Found both in about 20 seconds. > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** Yes I know. But many sellers are out of some parts, and the heli kit is no longer listed at most of them I can use google and find spare parts.... I want to knwo if anybody *knows* that the model is discontinued or *knows* that the parts supply problem is only brief >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that the model is discontinued or *knows* that the parts supply problem is > only brief Well, excuse me. You had given no earlier indication that you had done so it seemed to me to be a reasonable thing to do. Sorry it didn't meet your specific needs. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > that the model is discontinued or *knows* that the parts supply problem is > only brief Y'know, it's entirely possible for things like main shafts, feathering spindles, drive gears, clutches, rotor heads, tail rotor gearboxes, blades, tail booms, undecarriages etc to find their way onto different manufacturers heli's. This may be a slightly complicated hobby, but it's not rocket science and a 10mm shaft from one heli can EASILY be made to fit a heli the needs a 10mm shaft. You can even buy shaft material at engineers suppliers. I can't remember the last time I bought a manfacturers shaft for ANY helicopter. Silver steel (and that's all you need) comes in a variety of diameters, from 1.5, all the way to 20mm if you look hard enough. Do some "modelling", after all, that's what this hobby is. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 >> > And seeing as though CJ accidentally posted a reply to mine....... not >> > a [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > I think something funny is happening in newsreaderland or on google groups > or whatever as replies are under the wrong thread I think Your thread was hijacked and re-named. It happens all the time, but it does tend to divert attention away from the original question. SignatureBeav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19 |
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