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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / November 2008Initiating turns - was EFlite mCX
Hi I am an experienced fixed wing flyer and am about to buy an E-Flite mCX to get a taste of helicopters (and to keep up my stick time indoors during our long wet, windy, British winters). However, having followed the "EFLite mCX" thread with interest, something basic is puzzling me - so basic, I am almost embarrassed to ask!!!! How do you initiate a turn with a helicopter? With a fixed wing model, aileron rolls the plane; so to initiate a nice smooth turn with a fixed wing model, you bank the required amount using aileron, then actually perform the turn using up elevator. However, with the mCX helicopter, if aileron just moves the entire model sideways without any rolling, surely this isn't going to work - applying aileron plus elevator would just cause it to climb at a sideways angle whilst maintaining its heading. Also, unless rudder acts differently on a helicopter, surely rudder input would just yaw the model whilst maintaining forward flight. If the thing won't bank, how do you turn it?? I feel I must be having a "senior moment" (or too much home-brewed beer) and missing something basic. 8^) Regards KGB > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Regards > KGB in the hover it moves sideways but in forward flight you bank the helicopter the same as an aircraft and use rudder to keep the tail pointing in the correct direction , pitch/throttle controls the height and cyclic pitch controls the speed  SignatureKevin R Reply address works > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Regards > KGB As Kevin has already mentioned, you *can* include bank in your turn but you don't have to do so. Yawing while maintaining forward flight generates a turn, whether banking occurs or not. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >As Kevin has already mentioned, you *can* include bank in your turn but >you don't have to do so. Yawing while maintaining forward flight >generates a turn, whether banking occurs or not. >** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** You won't get much (if any) bank out of an mCX when you turn. When I fly my "big" helis, I turn with bank, applying some TR to maintain coordinated flight, increase the power and play with "elevator" to control the radius of the turn. I couldn't tell you what order I do it all in, 'cuz it just seems to happen. :) Upside down and backwards is a whole 'nuther story. :) >>As Kevin has already mentioned, you *can* include bank in your turn but >>you don't have to do so. Yawing while maintaining forward flight >>generates a turn, whether banking occurs or not. >>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > You won't get much (if any) bank out of an mCX when you turn. Because it's not flying fast enough to need any! ;-) > When I fly my "big" helis, I turn with bank, applying some TR to > maintain coordinated flight, increase the power and play with > "elevator" to control the radius of the turn. I couldn't tell you > what order I do it all in, 'cuz it just seems to happen. :) Which is how it should be. If you pay close attention, I think you'll find that in addition to a "little" aft cyclic being held in the turn, you're also thowing in a "little" opposite roll cyclic, as in holding a little right cyclic during a left turn. I discovered that after noting that a pure aft cyclic command, held in a tight turn (like holding up elevator with a fixed wing), just slowed the model up until if fell out of the turn. Holding slightly less aft cyclic in combination with a little opposite roll cyclic fixed that tendancy. At least that's what it felt like I was doing. Your mileage may vary but see if you can notice anything like that next time you're out boring holes in the sky! > Upside down and backwards is a whole 'nuther story. :) Only in your head! At least that's what I keep telling myself! :-D Fly Safe, Steve R. >Because it's not flying fast enough to need any! ;-) Put the battery up in the nose.. It gets scootin' pretty good! >Which is how it should be. If you pay close attention, I think you'll find >that in addition to a "little" aft cyclic being held in the turn, you're [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Your mileage may vary but see if you can notice anything like that next time >you're out boring holes in the sky! You think I have spare brain cycles to THINK with when I'm flying?? If I started thinking about what I was doing, I'd wad the thing up in no time. >> Upside down and backwards is a whole 'nuther story. :) >> >Only in your head! At least that's what I keep telling myself! :-D I wish it were so. I rip around all over the place backwards inverted on the sim, but when I hit the field, my brain and thumbs "forget" what they know.. Frustrating... > You think I have spare brain cycles to THINK with when I'm flying?? > If I started thinking about what I was doing, I'd wad the thing up in > no time. Yeah, well, I've probably been flying the models a bit longer than you have. I'd trade you for some of your "full size" skills if it were possible! :-) >>> Upside down and backwards is a whole 'nuther story. :) >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on the sim, but when I hit the field, my brain and thumbs "forget" > what they know.. Frustrating... We're in FULL agreement on that one. Lately, I feel like I'm having more orientation issues than usual when trying to fly, and especially, hover upside down. It's amazing what a difference "not" having to worry about the wallet does for the our flight skills! Flly Safe, Steve R. >Yeah, well, I've probably been flying the models a bit longer than you have. >I'd trade you for some of your "full size" skills if it were possible! :-) It only takes money and time - much more of the former than the latter. :) >We're in FULL agreement on that one. Lately, I feel like I'm having more >orientation issues than usual when trying to fly, and especially, hover >upside down. It's amazing what a difference "not" having to worry about the >wallet does for the our flight skills! Yep. Hadn't been out to the field in weeks and finally got some time to do so last weekend. I had a tough time hoving to land. heheh Didn't even bother with any backwards attempts.. Amazing how fast the rust comes back in real life when the sim skills are still there... > I am an experienced fixed wing flyer and am about to buy an E-Flite > mCX to get a taste of helicopters (and to keep up my stick time > indoors during our long wet, windy, British winters). If you have lots of fixed wing experience, you may find the mCX boring. I was new to flying anything at all, have flown a Lama style koax and then started learning "real" helicopters with a Blade400. I still have not mastered anything beyond hovering and "flattened" eight patterns with it, but find the mCX amusing, very nice and stable, but kind of boring. > How do you initiate a turn with a helicopter? With a coax, you can simply move all axes independently. To fly in a circle, you just give forward pitch and then use the "tail rotor" function (i.e. balance between the two rotors with a coax) to change direction of the forward flight. You can add in some roll to further change circle diameter and make it look a bit smoother, but there is no strict need to. With a non-coax, it is a bit more complicated but you basically have to keep in mind that the tilt of the rotor disc will change the horizontal and vertical acceleration values. So to turn from forward flight, you give some roll to the side you wish to turn to, add in some tail rotor to make the tail follow the flight path. You will also need to control nick and pitch a bit to keep everything smooth. What you wish to achieve for a nice circle is to have the rotor disk always tilted down a bit toward the center of the circle (to counter centrifugal forces) and forward (to keep up airspeed). > Also, unless rudder acts differently on a helicopter, surely rudder > input would just yaw the model whilst maintaining forward flight. If > the thing won't bank, how do you turn it?? The model will yaw which will change the idea of "forward" flight which is enough for a turn with a coax. CU, Andy >> I am an experienced fixed wing flyer and am about to buy an E-Flite >> mCX to get a taste of helicopters (and to keep up my stick time >> indoors during our long wet, windy, British winters). > >If you have lots of fixed wing experience, you may find the mCX boring. Hi I received my mCX (plus spare batteries) earlier today by mail, and now have a few flights under my belt. For its size it is remarkably stable; I expected it to be very twitchy. Manoeuvering it seems instinctive - including turns - (I suspect due to many years of fixed wing experience). So far I have not found it boring at all. I have upset the wife by landing on her laptop PC (deliberately), frightened the dogs by chasing them round the living room (they don't quite know what to make of it) and baffled the cats by flying up and down in the garden outside (I know it says "indoors only" but it is a flat calm today so I couldn't resist trying it outdoors). For such a small model I am very impressed. Now, if they only did a 3D version the same size!!!!! 8^) Regards KGB |
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