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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / November 2008



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EFlite mCX - reliability an issue??

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KGB - 10 Nov 2008 10:07 GMT
Hi

My MCX arrived last Tuesday and I am very impressed with the way it
flies for such a small model.  But.............

It flew fine for the first few days with the number of "heavy
landings" being counted on the fingers of one hand - and only on the
first few flights until I got used to the model. The few times it did
"crash", it was from a few inches onto thick carpet and I was able to
knock the throttle back to zero before it hit; as far as I am aware
there have been no serious rotor blade strikes.  There was never any
visible damage and the heli always flew perfectly afterwards.

However, a couple of days ago and with no obvious cause, a minute or
so into a flight, the power to the rotors suddenly reduced without any
stick input - exactly as though the Low Voltage Cutoff had kicked in.
Thinking I had forgotten to charge the battery, I replaced it with a
battery fresh from the charger but with similar results, and it now
happens every flight.   The only difference between the above
throttling back and a normal LVC is that the LED does NOT blink (see
EFlite mCX thread).  Sometimes power is reduced for only a second,
returning to normal by itself with no stick input (the model will
briefly drop a foot or so then return to normal by itself). If I move
the throttle stick while power is down, then control usually returns
to normal but sooner or later into the flight it will happen again and
eventually yaw control is affected and becomes completely erratic.
This would indicate to me that there is a possible problem with the
ESC, firstly both rotor motors are affected together (yaw continues to
work) but later only one motor is affected (yaw is uncontrollable).  

Replacing the battery, a flight always starts OK then the same thing
happens after only a minute or so; obviously unplugging the battery
temporarily clears the fault.

I would make the following observations:-
1)  I have 3 batteries and it happens with all three (even fully
charged straight from the charger) - I think it unlikely that every
battery should fail at exactly the same time so the problem is
unlikely to be a duff battery.  In any case, after the problem has
occurred, if I try and recharge the battery, the flight has been so
short that it is obviously still nearly fully charged.
2)  It could possibly be the charger but charging appears to go
normally - the light goes out when it should.  The supplied charger
batteries have now been replaced with fresh alkaline but I cannot see
this causing any problems.
3)  It could be A Tx fault, but I have no means of checking this.
Personally I think it unlikely, as the heli always flies as it should
for the first a minute or so (i.e. after the flight battery has been
plugged in; and without the Tx having been switched off).  Had it been
a Tx problem I would have expected the fault to recur immed1ately the
flight was resumed.
4)  My layman's guess would be the ESC on the "5-in-1 control unit"
but, before contacting the supplier, wonder whether anybody else has
had similar problems.  I haven't contacted the (mail order) shop yet
but, being cynical, suspect they could try and wriggle out of it by
claiming crash damage.

Checking the WWW, there are one or two reports of mCXs giving problems
after a few days, but I wonder whether the model has basic reliability
issues.  Any help would be appreciated.

Regards (sorry about the long post, but I wanted to give all the
facts)

KGB
KGB - 10 Nov 2008 17:11 GMT
>Hi
>
>My MCX arrived last Tuesday and I am very impressed with the way it
>flies for such a small model.  But.............

Hi

Further to my first post, after playing with the heli for some time I
think I have found the fault.  I am a fixed wing flyer with no rotary
experience so am doing some "inspired guesswork" here, but the
following theory sounds logical to me!!!

I think the lower rotor motor is slowing down in flight, probably due
to a motor fault.  The clever electronics gyro thingie then slows the
upper rotor down to compensate.  Eventually however, the difference
between the two rotor speeds becomes so great that the gyro cannot
compensate any longer and the yaw trim cannot be centred.  Playing
with the throttle changes the lower rotor speed and temporarily cures
the fault, the motor then running at the correct speed until the
problem recurs a few seconds later.

Does this make sense to you heli experts??

I base the above on the fact that if I very, very, gradually increase
the throttle from stop, the lower rotor lags considerably behind the
upper in starting to rotate - sometimes not rotating at all unless I
give it a gentle nudge with my finger.  I hadn't spotted this before,
because I normally open the throttle relatively quickly to get the
model into the air.  

As a new rotor motor is considerably cheaper then the electronic box
of tricks - and even cheaper than the cost of returning the heli for
repair - I have ordered a new lower rotor motor to see if that will
cure the problem.  However it still leaves me with the feeling that I
would expect the motor to last a lot longer than a few days.

The next question is, when the new motor arrives, how do I fasten it
in place?  Is it merely a push fit (it looks as though it is) or will
it need a dab of silicon sealant or similar to fix it?

Regards

KGB
Chris Dugan - 10 Nov 2008 20:25 GMT
>>Hi
>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> KGB

Are you sure it is the motor? I have read stories of something that
afflicts some of these co-ax helis: the motor becomes detached from the
bottom or top rotor so it just spins on the shaft. Try removing it and
then adding a small drop of superglue before re-fitting the motor or
shaft to the rotor itself.

Signature

Chris

KGB - 10 Nov 2008 22:11 GMT
<SNIP>

>Are you sure it is the motor? I have read stories of something that
>afflicts some of these co-ax helis: the motor becomes detached from the
>bottom or top rotor so it just spins on the shaft. Try removing it and
>then adding a small drop of superglue before re-fitting the motor or
>shaft to the rotor itself.

Hi

I will double-check that tomorrow, but I am fairly certain that the
motor is NOT detached from the bottom rotor.  Logic tells me it is
either a fault on the ESC or a faulty motor, and I have come across a
couple of references on the WWW which seem to imply that the small
motors could be unreliable.

By increasing the throttle very, very, slowly (holding onto the heli)
I can get to over 1/2 throttle with no movement from the bottom rotor
motor.  If I then nudge the rotor with my finger it starts rotating
slowly then rapidly increases to full speed.  For the sake of a £5.99
motor compared to £34.99 for the electronic board, it is worth trying
a new motor first.

Regards

KGB
KGB - 11 Nov 2008 09:43 GMT
><SNIP>
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>motor compared to £34.99 for the electronic board, it is worth trying
>a new motor first.

Hi

The motor is definitely NOT detached from the rotor.

However, I am now fairly certain that the problem is a dodgy (left)
motor.  I have just tried swapping (and reversing so they spin the
correct way) the motor plugs.  Holding the heli in my hand and very
slowly increasing the throttle, the same MOTOR is showing the same
fault - it often doesn't start turning until nearly full throttle.
Had it been the board then the other motor should have been affected.

When the new motor arrives I will hopefully have solved the problem.

Regards

KGB
KGB - 11 Nov 2008 14:21 GMT
<SNIP>
>However, I am now fairly certain that the problem is a dodgy (left)
>motor.  I have just tried swapping (and reversing so they spin the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>When the new motor arrives I will hopefully have solved the problem.

Hi

Hopefully my last post on this topic, but I have just replaced the
left rotor motor and cured the fault - so obviously it was a duff
motor.  The repair literally took less than 5 minutes, and that
included the time taken for the sealant to dry.

It is slightly annoying because the heli is less than a week old and a
component has already failed.  For anyone thinking of buying a mCX, it
flies very nicely but bear my experience in mind; a search of heli
forums on the WWW reveals my problem is not all that unusual.  

All that remains now is to spend the winter getting used to
orientation and practicing nose-in manoeuvres from my armchair before
graduating to a bigger IC heli (thinks: must drop hints to the wife
about a heli glow engine for Christmas).

Regards
KGB
Greg Cisko - 15 Nov 2008 15:32 GMT
> Hopefully my last post on this topic, but I have just replaced the
> left rotor motor and cured the fault - so obviously it was a duff
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> flies very nicely but bear my experience in mind; a search of heli
> forums on the WWW reveals my problem is not all that unusual.

That is why I am starting with a few $30 micro copters first. HSN had
them for $30 and it seemed like a good deal. I bought several thinking
I would probably crash them while I learn to fly (I do fixed wing).
I ended up getting a couple of the micro airwolf's from amazon. It is
more stable. But both are fun to fly. I am still getting used to trimming.
As you increase the collective, neither micro stays still. At a faster
or lower blade speed, the thing rotates. But you can compensate for
the left/right rudder control if you have it reasonably trimmed.

Signature

gcisko@hotmail.com

Kevin - 18 Nov 2008 02:55 GMT
> <SNIP>
>> However, I am now fairly certain that the problem is a dodgy (left)
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Regards
> KGB

as long as you realise any nose in practise with any of these stable
heli's wont really help a great deal, you would be better off putting
the same amount of practise on a decent simulator

Signature

Kevin R
Reply address works

The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 18 Nov 2008 18:56 GMT
>as long as you realise any nose in practise with any of these stable
>heli's wont really help a great deal, you would be better off putting
>the same amount of practise on a decent simulator

Actually, nose-in work is helpful on these things.  The hover part is
easy 'cuz the thing pretty much flies itself.  Try landing on
something nose-in, or moving the heli where you want it, holding it
there, then moving somewhere else..

For a real hint of danger, try landing on the bill of your baseball
hat nose-in.  :)
Kevin - 18 Nov 2008 19:44 GMT
>> as long as you realise any nose in practise with any of these stable
>> heli's wont really help a great deal, you would be better off putting
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> For a real hint of danger, try landing on the bill of your baseball
> hat nose-in.  :)
I am getting the hang of nose in with my cx2 but if I try with my t-rex
it all goes tits up very quickly

Signature

Kevin R
Reply address works

KGB - 19 Nov 2008 19:24 GMT
<SNIP>
>For a real hint of danger, try landing on the bill of your baseball
>hat nose-in.  :)

Hi

That's a thought.  However, to see where you are landing, it would
possibly be easier doing it whilst looking in a mirror - but would
that still be nose-in??    8^)

Regards
KGB
Steve R. - 20 Nov 2008 03:15 GMT
> <SNIP>
>>For a real hint of danger, try landing on the bill of your baseball
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Regards
> KGB

Yes, but since everything in the mirror is reversed, you'd fly it like it
was tail-in!

Now "that" should really screw with your mind!  :-D

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 26 Nov 2008 18:26 GMT
>>For a real hint of danger, try landing on the bill of your baseball
>>hat nose-in.  :)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>possibly be easier doing it whilst looking in a mirror - but would
>that still be nose-in??    8^)

Naw, you just gotta git the bill low on your forehead and look up at
the heli.  I do it all the time.  It's not easy when all you can see
just before "touchdown" is the tail feathers.  :)
 
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