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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Helicopters / January 2009



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Judgement Day

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Beav - 17 Jan 2009 17:42 GMT
Seems to have arrived at rec.heli's. What's happened to what was once a
thriving hobby (modelling and flying models, not dicking about with ready
made toys from Wal-Mart)?

It used to be that we made our own rotor blades, cut gears on our lathes,
shaped wood (at first) for heli chassis before making them out of ali and
other assorted materials. Glass fibre and carbon-fibre spring to mind, but
these days it seems to be "Nip down the local "hobby" shop and buy a shitty
little RTF complete with radio".

We used to fly with non computer radios (odd, but true) and f.ck me, we even
used to BUILD our own radios. We flew with no gyro's and we learned how to
make mechanical mixers to combat torque variations. We learned which
aerofoil sections worked best for a variety of "needs" and we learned which
gear ratio's were good and which were bad and we learned how to modify 2
stroke engines (and 4 strokes too) to get more power than they came out of
the box with.

We learned abut tuning exhaust chamber sizes and pipe lengths to get more
power and we learned to tweak a rotor system to give fearsome control
response yet still remain stable.

And we used to post sh.t loads of information on this NG, but lately it's
been deader than the whole crew of Red Dwarf.

I'm going for a sh.t.

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Skywise - 18 Jan 2009 04:03 GMT
> What's happened to what was once a thriving hobby

Progress?

I have to say, for me at least, if it wasn't for some of that
fancy new fangled technology, I wouldn't be flying at all.

I have had a vague interest in RC for over 20 years, but never
picked it up, except for a short try at an rtf electric plane
that couldn't stay in the air about 15+ years ago.

But then about a year ago I saw a new hobby shop in my area
and popped in just for sh.ts & giggles and discovered the
lightweight li-po powered rtf coaxials and I just had to get it.
I've since stopped up twice and now fly a Blade400.

I don't fly much, lucky if it's once a week. I don't do stunts
and probably won't, unless I get into fixed wing. But I have to
say, for those 20 minutes that I'm hovering around I'm grinning
ear to ear and thinking, "this is f.cking cool!"

Brian
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Beav - 21 Jan 2009 00:24 GMT
>> What's happened to what was once a thriving hobby
>
> Progress?

Certainly in some area's, but not in all. From a FLYERS point of view,
things are wnderful these days with inxpensive heli's, VERY cheap and easily
available spares to g with the simulators that are now available. But all
these do little to increase the understanding of the inter-relationship each
change to one aspect of a helicopter has on the rest of the machine and it's
this understanding which brings improvements to the various components.

> I have to say, for me at least, if it wasn't for some of that
> fancy new fangled technology, I wouldn't be flying at all.

And that would be true of a hell of a lot of guys too. Not a bad thing at
all.

> I have had a vague interest in RC for over 20 years, but never
> picked it up, except for a short try at an rtf electric plane
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> lightweight li-po powered rtf coaxials and I just had to get it.
> I've since stopped up twice and now fly a Blade400.

Don't get me wrong, I've no problem with using whatever you can to get to
where you want to be.

> I don't fly much, lucky if it's once a week. I don't do stunts
> and probably won't, unless I get into fixed wing. But I have to
> say, for those 20 minutes that I'm hovering around I'm grinning
> ear to ear and thinking, "this is f.cking cool!"

I know people Brian, who have NEVER left the hover and they're still
addicted to the heli's, and it's not a case of "I can fly better than him"
anyway, it's about enjoying the hobby and getting out of it what YOU want.
I'm glad you're grinning when you fly, coz that's all I've done when I've
been flying my heli's and that's lasted for 35 years so far.

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Steve R. - 20 Jan 2009 23:24 GMT
>> I don't fly much, lucky if it's once a week. I don't do stunts
>> and probably won't, unless I get into fixed wing. But I have to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I'm glad you're grinning when you fly, coz that's all I've done when I've
> been flying my heli's and that's lasted for 35 years so far.

AMEN to that!!  :-D
Beav - 21 Jan 2009 16:23 GMT
>>> I don't fly much, lucky if it's once a week. I don't do stunts
>>> and probably won't, unless I get into fixed wing. But I have to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> AMEN to that!!  :-D

It's odd though isn't it Steve. No matter what hobby you find yourself
immersed in, "someone" gets the idea that you have to be an "expert" or
you're simply "no good". With me and heli's (or piano playing and guitar
playing) it was never and still isn't an issue, but I got back into
motorbikes a few years ago and the general concesus is that if you don't
have the latest sportsbike, you're not  real biker.

Now I don't ride a sportsbike, I ride a 1000cc naked bike (more akin to a
streetfighter in the US) which is capable of exceeding 155mph on the clock
(probably not that quick in reality) but it's not a sportsbike, so "I don't
count" :-) Of course, those sportsbike riders I pass on the inside while
cornering with my missus on the back of the bike feel slighted when I do it,
but they usually have the excuse "I wasn't in a hurry". And don't MENTION
Harley's, coz of course, they're nothing more than tractors:-)

To each his own and to each their own way.

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Steve R. - 21 Jan 2009 14:46 GMT
>>>> I don't fly much, lucky if it's once a week. I don't do stunts
>>>> and probably won't, unless I get into fixed wing. But I have to
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> To each his own and to each their own way.

Aint it the truth.  I've been riding motorcycles since the late 60's.  My
main interest is long distance touring.  I don't get to do it nearly as much
as I'd like but I've had some really great 5k to 7k mile rides through the
years.  It's the only way to see the country as far as I'm concerned.  I've
run across sport bike riders like you describe.  I've also met touring
riders with the same mentality.  Then there's all the BS and snobbery based
on what brand you like to ride.

Having said that, watch those Harley comments now!!  ;-)  I'm about to buy
my first one!  I never thought I'd consider a Harley but I've had the chance
to try one that belongs to my boss.  When he offered it to me, I almost said
no thanks but I was curious.  Bottom line is I liked it way better than I
thought I would.  Later, I rented an 08 Ultra Classic and put a little over
1100 miles on it in three days.  It was great.  No, it's not the fastest
thing on two wheels but it's not that bad either.  It's still faster than
90% of the four wheelers out there so staying with or ahead of traffic was
not an issue.  There's a nostalgic feel to the bike that was fun and it
handled better than I ever thought it would.  Harley has made some
significant changes (read, improvements) to the 09 touring bikes and I test
rode an 09 Ultra Classic as a factory demo ride day at a local dealer.  It
was very solid and I liked it a lot.  So.......I've been saving for a down
payment and if all goes well, I'll start the purchasing process somewhere
around the end of February.  I'm looking forward to it.  :-)

Steve R.
Larry Farrell - 21 Jan 2009 16:36 GMT
[snip]

> It's odd though isn't it Steve. No matter what hobby you find yourself
> immersed in, "someone" gets the idea that you have to be an "expert" or
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> To each his own and to each their own way.

People who turn up their noses to those who don't do it "their way" are
apparently incapable of realizing that others might have found a
different way that works for them (maybe even be a better way?).
Unfortunately, Beav put himself firmly in the nose turner's camp with
his original post, deriding those who did not get into helicopters the
same way he did (walking five miles through the snow, uphill both ways,
to get to a shop to buy wood so he could carve his rotor blades or metal
to grind his own gears).  It is interesting to now see him deriding
those who don't ride the same motorcycles he does (actually, it may be
the same issue, since the folks who diss him are riding bikes that have
some bells and whistles).  Sorry, Beav, but I just can't agree with you
that folks who have something other than the absolute basics are somehow
less capable or worthy than you.  In that sense, I find you final
comment above somewhat disingenuous, since it implies exactly the
opposite of many of your previous statements.
Steve R. - 22 Jan 2009 04:01 GMT
> [snip]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> disingenuous, since it implies exactly the opposite of many of your
> previous statements.

You know Larry, you need to lighten up.  If you choose to interpret Beav's
comments that way, that's YOUR problem.  Unless you've been where he's come
from, you can't possibly understand what he truly meant and he absolutely
wasn't talking down about anyone on the helicopter or motorcycle side the
way you're trying to make it look like he was.  Maybe your the one who needs
to READ his post again!

Steve R.
Larry Farrell - 23 Jan 2009 00:10 GMT
[snip]

> You know Larry, you need to lighten up.  If you choose to interpret
> Beav's comments that way, that's YOUR problem.  Unless you've been where
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Steve R.

And *your* basis for knowing exactly what Beav meant is ????
Steve R. - 23 Jan 2009 01:58 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> And *your* basis for knowing exactly what Beav meant is ????

How about 15+ years of conversing with the man on the subject of model
helicopters via this NG!!  I haven't been flying as long as he has but I'm
not that far behind him either.  We've had very similar experiences in a lot
of ways and we've flown a lot of the same equipment over the years.  We've
never met personally but I think I've got a fair idea of what kind of person
he is.  I've read literally thousands of his posts on this NG and there have
been "very" few folks around here that have tried to help people as much as
he has.  He's no candidate for sainthood, none of us are. but he's Ok in my
book!

YOU made comments like;

"People who turn up their noses to those who don't do it "their way" are
apparently incapable of realizing that others might have found a
different way that works for them (maybe even be a better way?).
Unfortunately, Beav put himself firmly in the nose turner's camp with
his original post, deriding those who did not get into helicopters the
same way he did ."

While Beav made comments like;

"Don't get me wrong, I've no problem with using whatever you can to get to
where you want to be."

and

"I know people Brian, who have NEVER left the hover and they're still
addicted to the heli's, and it's not a case of "I can fly better than him"
anyway, it's about enjoying the hobby and getting out of it what YOU want.
I'm glad you're grinning when you fly, coz that's all I've done when I've
been flying my heli's and that's lasted for 35 years so far."

I don't see those statements as Beav turning his nose up at anyone.  Nor did
I get that out of anything he previously said in this conversation.  You're
the one who seems to have a problem and I respectfully request you get over
it!

Fly Safe, assuming you know how in the first place because you haven't
mentioned anything about that!
Steve R.
Larry Farrell - 23 Jan 2009 05:22 GMT
>> [snip]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> mentioned anything about that!
> Steve R.

If Beav tells me that I have egregiously misinterpreted his original
post, I will be happy to apologize, both for the misinterpretation and
for perhaps overstating my case from the outset.  However, I am not
going to set back and allow someone else to ream me because they think
they know what another poster meant.

Since this thread has had absolutely nothing to do with my flying, there
has been no need for me to comment on it, however I do fly, although you
might have known that if you had read some of my other posts in this
group, and have just recently organized a local indoor flying group.  Ad
hominem comments are worth very little.
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 12:39 GMT
>>> [snip]
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> set back and allow someone else to ream me because they think they know
> what another poster meant.

Ok, time out fella's. Larry, you read me wrong and I don't thinkg Steve
"reamed you out", but wtf does it matter? If you'll notice, this group has
suddenly become slightly more active than it's been for some time :-) And no
apologies necessary <G>

> Since this thread has had absolutely nothing to do with my flying, there
> has been no need for me to comment on it, however I do fly, although you
> might have known that if you had read some of my other posts in this
> group, and have just recently organized a local indoor flying group.

Excellent stuff Larry. More people should do the same.

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Larry Farrell - 23 Jan 2009 17:48 GMT
> "Larry Farrell" <farrlarr@isu.edu> wrote in message

[snip]

>> If Beav tells me that I have egregiously misinterpreted his original post,
>> I will be happy to apologize, both for the misinterpretation and for
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Excellent stuff Larry. More people should do the same.

Thanks, Beav.  Sorry for misreading you, even if you did say no
apologies were necessary.

This thread has gone on long enough (or at least my part in it has) so I
will say nothing more on this matter.
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 22:28 GMT
>> "Larry Farrell" <farrlarr@isu.edu> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Thanks, Beav.  Sorry for misreading you,

You're not the first Larry, and I seriously doubt you'll be the last:-)

>even if you did say no apologies were necessary.

Well apology gratefully accepted. Thanks.

> This thread has gone on long enough (or at least my part in it has) so I
> will say nothing more on this matter.

This thread's only just started, there's a few more miles in it yet. Like
your own learning experiences for a one. Come on Lar, fess up, what did you
start with, what're you flying now and which (if any) sim have you used?
See, lots of mileage yet.

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Larry Farrell - 23 Jan 2009 19:33 GMT
[snip]

> Ok, time out fella's. Larry, you read me wrong and I don't thinkg Steve
> "reamed you out", but wtf does it matter? If you'll notice, this group has
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Excellent stuff Larry. More people should do the same.

It appears that my original response to this post has gotten lost
somewhere in the ether so I will try again.

Thanks, Beav.  Sorry for misinterpreting you, even if you did say that
apologies were not necessary.

My part in this thread has gone on long enough so I will comment further.
Larry Farrell - 23 Jan 2009 22:44 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> My part in this thread has gone on long enough so I will comment further.

Woops!!  That obviously should have said "I will comment *no* further."
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 12:34 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> And *your* basis for knowing exactly what Beav meant is ????

Well Steve and I have been nattering about all things for 14-15 years or so,
he's got a pretty good idea about where I'm coming from.

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Beav - 23 Jan 2009 12:32 GMT
> [snip]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> disingenuous, since it implies exactly the opposite of many of your
> previous statements.

May I suggest a re-read of my posts? I think you'll discover that you're so
far off the mark as makes no difference.

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Skywise - 22 Jan 2009 03:37 GMT
> And don't MENTION Harley's, coz of course, they're nothing more
> than tractors:-)

I have an '86 Sportster 883. Now, of course, I can't compete
with the big arsed bikes. But there have been times I took
on bikes in my smaller size range and have surprised them.
I may not have out run them, but they didn't exactly leave me
behind either.

A less powerful bike with a skilled rider can win against an
unskilled rider with a more powerful bike.

But it's a tad hard to carry a heli around on the back of my
bike. (token 'on-topic' comment)

Brian
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Beav - 23 Jan 2009 12:46 GMT
>> And don't MENTION Harley's, coz of course, they're nothing more
>> than tractors:-)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I may not have out run them, but they didn't exactly leave me
> behind either.

The "dig" at harley's (and Harley style bikes) was nothing more than a joke,
but unfortunately, not all bike riders think it is. More fool them to be
honest. I have a cruiser style (not a Harley as all my tools are metric and
I'm not getting a sh.t load of Imperial tools again) to go with my "quick"
bike and I love all kinds of bikes (well, maybe not 50cc scooters:-), so
whatever anyone chooses is fine by me and hopefully, it's fine by them
too:-)

It's a standing joke over here that Harley's are crap, although mostly
they're not serious, but Harley's aren't really good for our roads. We need
bikes that corner as well as they straightline for the simple reason, we
don't have straight roads.

> A less powerful bike with a skilled rider can win against an
> unskilled rider with a more powerful bike.

Always.

> But it's a tad hard to carry a heli around on the back of my
> bike. (token 'on-topic' comment)

There used to be a bloke on here who carried his heli's and all his support
gear on a pedal bike. Nick Salmon he was/is called. He made a carrier for
the heli and dragged a trailer behind. It worked well for him too.

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Skywise - 24 Jan 2009 04:55 GMT
> It's a standing joke over here that Harley's are crap, although mostly
> they're not serious, but Harley's aren't really good for our roads. We
> need bikes that corner as well as they straightline for the simple
> reason, we don't have straight roads.

I know Harley's have a reputation in some circles that's not always
a good one. For example...dripping oil. Yes, mine does now, but it
took over 10 years to start doing it.

As for cornering, I may not be able to lean like a race bike and
drag my knee on the ground, but I've gone though some twisty and
hilly roads pretty dang fast. Don't do it anymore. That was back
when I was young and immortal.

> There used to be a bloke on here who carried his heli's and all his
> support gear on a pedal bike. Nick Salmon he was/is called. He made a
> carrier for the heli and dragged a trailer behind. It worked well for
> him too.

Now that's resourceful!

Brian
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Skywise - 21 Jan 2009 03:59 GMT
>>> What's happened to what was once a thriving hobby
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> rest of the machine and it's this understanding which brings
> improvements to the various components.

Well, knowing what I do know now about heli's, I am amazed
that anyone was able to fly without things like gyros, and
radio mixing, etc... I'm sure it took a lot more practice
and deeper pockets to just be able to hover.

Brian
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Beav - 21 Jan 2009 17:00 GMT
>>>> What's happened to what was once a thriving hobby
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> radio mixing, etc... I'm sure it took a lot more practice
> and deeper pockets to just be able to hover.

There was a time when it was guestimated that over 90% of heli's bought in
the 80's only ever flew once and then spent the following years in garages
gathering dust before they were consigned to the bin. I spent 20 years
teaching people to fly these things and I believe it. In fact, I bought lots
of them:-) People had NO idea how to build them and even less of an idea how
to fly them. Even starting the engines was too complicated for lots of the
guys :-).

You have to remember though that we didn't miss the gyro's or the radio
mixing, because they hadn't been invented yet, but as soon as it became
clear exaclt what they could do to make life easier and the flying more fun,
they were bought and used. I tihnk it's fair to say I've used every possible
gadjet and radio function over the years, but things have almost gone full
circle now.

We used to have seperate mechanical anti-torque mixers, mechnical
throttle/pitch mixers etc, then electronic mixers T/R gyro's, Rx's etc and
then the highly programmable radio's came along taking out the need for
electronic mixers for tail rotor compensation or pitch/throttle linkages.
Then came the Heading Holders. Wow. Now we didn't need ANY tail mixing from
the radio, in fact we COULDN'T use it as it defeated the gyro. Then we got
throttle governors, so we didn't "need" to spend time making a good
throttle/pitch relationship, we just dialled in the rotor speed we wanted
and went flying. Now everything is being done by seperate electronic boxes
(some are combined too, like gyros and governors) and we can do every
manoeuvre in the book with little more than a basic 5 or 6 channel radio and
a couple of add-on boxes. Fantastic stuff when you tihnk about it.

Of course, we didn't have the instant access to spares like we enjoy today
(early Internet dealings were few and VERY far between), so any slight
damage done on Saturday, put paid to ANY more attempts for at least a week
(I just had to stop writing to answer the phone...someone wanting lessons
for f.cks sake.:-)

So one small smack, no heli for a week (if you were lucky enough to get the
time to go shoping and have the time to replair the broken heli) and then it
was the same thing next time out. Five minutes of uncontrolled mayhem,
followed by another hit to the wallet. And broken heli's need to be repaired
to the point where they'll fly and many weren't, so no matter how hard the
guys tried, the heli would just refuse to play.

A good setup cured that, but the people who could effect a good setup were
thin on the grund, so struggling was what it was all about. Then I decided
that having been through ALL the crap, maybe I could make it easier for some
others and I started teaching, building, setting up, the lot.

In the early days, there were a few of the "Club Experts" (planks) who
thought they'd be able to "do this helicopter thing" with ease, but they
soon discovered they weren't going to be able to, so they gave up, saying
that heli's were "boring". (Yeah, right). What they REALLY meant was they
were frustrating, but it was these guys who gave heli's the bad name they
had "back then". They f.cking HATED it when someone managed to get a handle
on flying them and when that someone took a heli out of the hover and flew
circuits, well that was ludicrous.

Now they had to share actual airspace with the lowly helicopter instead of
just keeping away from a few square yards of floor space. These same guys
were almost apoplectic when heli's started flying aerobatics and this lead
to a massive split in the hobby. Planes and heli's have never mixed well
since. My first loop, came on the same flight as my first circuit and the
first crash of any significance came on the same flight too:-)  That flight
REALLY f.cked a few people off, to the extent I left the club as soon as I
found somewhere else to fly.) The loved the crash, but they hated tthe fact
that a heli could loop, but not as much as they hated me saying tothem years
later "I can do that with a heli AND I can do it while the heli is flying
full speed BACKWARDS.

You can't f.cking beat a good heli :-)

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R A - 21 Jan 2009 22:36 GMT
Hello Beav & Steve I still check this group, I,m one of those peeps who has
managed with help from the likes of yourselves to hover and sort of maintain
my heli's but as Brian has already said just to get a half hour hover is a
bonus and I have not progressed from there due to time weather etc. I have
even had the chance and let it go to meet up with Beav for a training
session but I always had a reason not to be able to do it, So again this
Christmas holiday came and went I found I had a day to play, got my kit out
cleaned all checked all charged all batteries etc. started to fill the tank
with fuel and the pump packed in, I had no replacement so that was that, all
shops shut so I did get the heli running on the fuel I got in I had a while
hovering and now everything has been put away until next time. Was I unhappy
no, pissed off a bit yes, but I will do it all again in spring bank hols :-)
I have now got a manual pump so that wont happen again :-) :-)

Best Regards

Rob

>>>> What's happened to what was once a thriving hobby
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Brian
Steve R. - 22 Jan 2009 04:09 GMT
> Hello Beav & Steve I still check this group, I,m one of those peeps who
> has managed with help from the likes of yourselves to hover and sort of
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Rob

That's great Rob.  We all understand life's situations that sometimes get in
the way.  The next thing you know, some ridicules amount of time has gone by
since the last time you tried to fly.  Bottom line is, if you're enjoying
it, that's all that matters.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Steve R. - 18 Jan 2009 18:07 GMT
> Seems to have arrived at rec.heli's. What's happened to what was once a
> thriving hobby (modelling and flying models, not dicking about with ready
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> I'm going for a sh.t.

Hey Beav,

Good to see you're still around.  You're right, it's been pretty dead around
here.  I think most folks are spending their time on the web forums.  NG's
are just not as popular as they used to be.  My IP has stopped providing
access to newsgroups so now I'm "paying" for access to Giganews in order to
read the two whole NG's I've ever frequented with any regularity and their
both pretty much dead.  Considering how much activity there is around here,
I'm not sure I'm going to keep that up much longer.  The cost is minimal so
it's not that big a deal but it's getting to be a matter of principle.  Even
at the minimal cost, it's not really worth it.

On the points you made, I never carved my own rotor blades or machined my
own gears but I did my initial hover training without a gyro (didn't know
they existed) and a very basic Futaba radio and didn't even have servo
reversing capabilities, much less the bells and whistles our modern radios
have.  Even at that point, I had to learn aspects of the models that the
guys these days don't have a clue about but I'm glad I didn't have to deal
with the challenges you mention.!  :-)

> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in
> news:MLocl.99448$dD1.15759@newsfe11.ams2:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Brian

Brian,

Progress?  In a lot of ways, yes.  In some other ways, not so much.  Beav is
talking about the very earliest days of RC helicopters.  My response to him
above would, I think, put me learning to fly maybe half way between those
days and today.  The coaxials are great for introducing people like yourself
to RC helicopters but they are very limited in capabilities.  The Blade 400
is a step up but not the same as a 30 size or larger machine.  The birds
that Beav is talking about are capable of "so" much more and it you took the
time to learn to fly one, I think you'd find them to be a lot more
satisfying once you get them mastered.  The stunts you mention, basic loops
and rolls anyway, aren't that big a deal.  Don't be put off by the hard core
3D pilots you may have seen.  It's not about imitating them.  Of course,
you'll have to pay a few more dues to get to that point but it's worth it in
my opinion.  That may not be the case for you and that's Ok but there are
folks out there that can help you a lot in the learning process.

Best of luck & Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Beav - 21 Jan 2009 00:17 GMT
>> Seems to have arrived at rec.heli's. What's happened to what was once a
>> thriving hobby (modelling and flying models, not dicking about with ready
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Giganews in order to read the two whole NG's I've ever frequented with any
> regularity and their both pretty much dead.

I'm with Thundernews, but for some reason my normal ISP's NG coverage is
better. Faster (being cable) but the retention isn't as good.

>Considering how much activity there is around here, I'm not sure I'm going
>to keep that up much longer.  The cost is minimal so it's not that big a
>deal but it's getting to be a matter of principle.  Even at the minimal
>cost, it's not really worth it.

Well the group certainly dies a death.

> On the points you made, I never carved my own rotor blades or machined my
> own gears but I did my initial hover training without a gyro (didn't know
> they existed)

When I started, they didn't :-) When they became available, I bought one but
took it off the heli after the first day. It ewasn't until a year or two
later that I decided to give it another go and learn how to get the maximum
benefit with the leat "interference". Weighting tail blades and altering the
spring rate of the gyro helped.

> and a very basic Futaba radio and didn't even have servo reversing
> capabilities, much less the bells and whistles our modern radios have.

The first radio I used on a heli was a "Mainstream Gem" (4 channel) and it
was abut as basic as a radio got. Like yours, no servo reversing and VERY
dodgy trim levers:-)

> Even at that point, I had to learn aspects of the models that the guys
> these days don't have a clue about but I'm glad I didn't have to deal with
> the challenges you mention.!  :-)

They were all part of the hobby back then. We didn't EVER hear the word
"challenge", we just heard the old f.ckers whinging about having egg beaters
on the fireld. They changed their tune (slightly) when we started flyin
around instead of battling to keep them in the hover though, but some (those
who tried, failed and gave up) never accepted heli's or their owners.

Signature

Beav

VN 750
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Steve R. - 20 Jan 2009 23:22 GMT
> "> They were all part of the hobby back then. We didn't EVER hear the word
> "challenge", we just heard the old f.ckers whinging about having egg
> beaters on the fireld. They changed their tune (slightly) when we started
> flyin around instead of battling to keep them in the hover though, but
> some (those who tried, failed and gave up) never accepted heli's or their
> owners.

Yeah, unfortunately, I still run into a few folks like that although it's
pretty good these days.  We've had a number of guys at our field that didn't
like helicopters.  Of course, none of them had the balls to tell you that to
your face.  They just talk us down behind our backs.  At one point, we had
the club president threatening to pass rules against helicopters at the
field.  It was news to ME, to say the least so I gave him a call to try to
find out what was going on.  I was invited to an E-board meeting prior to
that months club meeting and it turned out that two or three guys were
wining and crying about helicopters to the E-board and they were getting
tired of hearing about it so......instead of talking to US, they started
threatening restrictions against helicopters.  I went to the meeting and
listened to the complaints.  Turns out that they were all pretty juvenile
and I made them look pretty bad.  It was fun, actually!  The end result was
that no rules were passed against the us helicopter pilots and the cry
babies eventually went somewhere else.  We were SO disappointed!

You just can't please everyone!  ;-)

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 22 Jan 2009 00:15 GMT
>Seems to have arrived at rec.heli's. What's happened to what was once a
>thriving hobby (modelling and flying models, not dicking about with ready
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>I'm going for a sh.t.

WTF are you on about Beav?  I'm sitting here, covered in aluminum
shavings and dust as I use my teeth to nibble vanes into the
compressor wheel of my latest hand-hewn turbine.  Later, I'll be
extruding my own fuel tubing from the urethra of pygmy goats and then
building mechanical servo mixing trays from old muffin tins and sap
from 200 year old maple trees...

Tomorrow I'll be hand blowing glass fuel and header tanks...
Steve R. - 22 Jan 2009 04:11 GMT
>>Seems to have arrived at rec.heli's. What's happened to what was once a
>>thriving hobby (modelling and flying models, not dicking about with ready
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Tomorrow I'll be hand blowing glass fuel and header tanks...

LMAO!!  :-D  Good one, Keven!

Speaking of turbines, have you got your Bergen yet?

Steve R.
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 22 Jan 2009 17:06 GMT
>LMAO!!  :-D  Good one, Keven!
>
>Speaking of turbines, have you got your Bergen yet?

Nope, but Chris did post a picture of my kit in the Bergen forum on
HeliFreak.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=115171&page=2

We've been waiting on Wren to get some engines completed.  I got an
e-mail from Sara @ Wren last week and she said the engine SHOULD be
shipping tomorrow so figure 3-4 days to Bergen, then 3-4 more days
from Bergen to me.  I figure I'll have it by the 1st (Which will suck
'cuz I won't be able to start building as I've got to ferry an R44
from Vegas to here that weekend...)
Steve R. - 23 Jan 2009 01:37 GMT
>>LMAO!!  :-D  Good one, Keven!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> 'cuz I won't be able to start building as I've got to ferry an R44
> from Vegas to here that weekend...)

Oh man, life's tough!  I'd put of building a model for a day for the
opportunity to fly a full size bird, especiallly if "I" was the one flying
it.  You'll get very little sympathy from me!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 12:51 GMT
>>>LMAO!!  :-D  Good one, Keven!
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> opportunity to fly a full size bird, especiallly if "I" was the one flying
> it.  You'll get very little sympathy from me!

He'll get f.cking NONE from me :)

Signature

Beav

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The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 23 Jan 2009 17:36 GMT
>> Oh man, life's tough!  I'd put of building a model for a day for the
>> opportunity to fly a full size bird, especiallly if "I" was the one flying
>> it.  You'll get very little sympathy from me!
>
>He'll get f.cking NONE from me :)

I knew I could count on ya Beav!!
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 22:28 GMT
>>> Oh man, life's tough!  I'd put of building a model for a day for the
>>> opportunity to fly a full size bird, especiallly if "I" was the one
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I knew I could count on ya Beav!!

I aim to please Kev:-)

Signature

Beav

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Zed 1000
OMF# 19

The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 23 Jan 2009 17:33 GMT
>Oh man, life's tough!  I'd put of building a model for a day for the
>opportunity to fly a full size bird, especiallly if "I" was the one flying
>it.  You'll get very little sympathy from me!

lol..  I suppose I shouldn't mention I've got a flight coming up in
about 30 mins then.  :)
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 12:50 GMT
>>Seems to have arrived at rec.heli's. What's happened to what was once a
>>thriving hobby (modelling and flying models, not dicking about with ready
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> shavings and dust as I use my teeth to nibble vanes into the
> compressor wheel of my latest hand-hewn turbine.

HAND hewn? We LICKED them into shape in "the good ole days" :-)

> Later, I'll be
> extruding my own fuel tubing from the urethra of pygmy goats and then
> building mechanical servo mixing trays from old muffin tins and sap
> from 200 year old maple trees...

You ain't GOT no 200 year old maple trees. The Canucks felled them all to
make syrup for pancakes.

> Tomorrow I'll be hand blowing glass fuel and header tanks...

You can blow with your HANDS? f.ck me Kev, you really got into this heli
sh.t didn't you? :-)

Signature

Beav

VN 750
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OMF# 19

The OTHER Kevin in San Diego - 23 Jan 2009 17:36 GMT
>HAND hewn? We LICKED them into shape in "the good ole days" :-)

Of that I'm sure!

>You ain't GOT no 200 year old maple trees. The Canucks felled them all to
>make syrup for pancakes.

Good thing I don't live anywhere near Canaduh..  I have a private
stash.

>You can blow with your HANDS? f.ck me Kev, you really got into this heli
>sh.t didn't you? :-)

Only the true masters like youself can accomplish a truly magnificent
blow without using their hands..  Must be all that experience from the
aformentioned licking.  :)
Beav - 23 Jan 2009 22:30 GMT
>>HAND hewn? We LICKED them into shape in "the good ole days" :-)
>
> Of that I'm sure!

How'd you think I developed an acid tongue eh/ Go one, tell me that.

>>You ain't GOT no 200 year old maple trees. The Canucks felled them all to
>>make syrup for pancakes.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> blow without using their hands..  Must be all that experience from the
> aformentioned licking.  :)

I'll check with Mrs Beav as she's sure to know:)

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