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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Land Models / April 2005Novak SS5800 and Glitching
Has anyone figured out a way to prevent this from happening? And I don't mean buying a new receiver/transmitter. Seems people at Novak could stop the SS5800 from generating so much radio interference. Any succesfully cured glitching on there rc car with this setup? If the brushless set up is causing the glitching, you have a BIG problem. The brushless systems are known for generating virtually no RF noise. The motor/ESC don't even require capacitors. I run two brushless cars and I would say my range has improved with both cars. I hate to say it... You should look for the glitching elsewhere. Metal to metal contact, bad servo, bad crystal, loose antenna wire, Antenna routed through a carbon or graphite chassis, ect. Hope this helps, John > Has anyone figured out a way to prevent this from happening? And I > don't mean buying a new receiver/transmitter. Seems people at Novak > could stop the SS5800 from generating so much radio interference. Any > succesfully cured glitching on there rc car with this setup? Thanks for the reply. On the Traxxas Stampede I have the only metal to metal contact is the bearings and the pins that hold the wheels on. Can't get around that. Oh, and the tranny has an aluminum idler that meshes with a steel top gear. But there is plenty of grease in there. Then lets hit the basics first. I repair all sorts of RC vehicles for folks, these have all been causes of gliching that I repaired. _After a crash, receiver crystal was bad. _After being dropped, transmitter crystal was bad. _Steering servo motor was wornout, caused BAD glitching. _ RX Crystal was loose. _Antenna wire was fatiqued and broken inside insulation, looked good from outside, glitched when streched. _Pinion was loose, still spun with motor but just bearly. _Trasmitter batteries were low. (Traxxas radio too). Check this stuff first, if you send it back to Novak and they find nothing wrong, I think they charge you. Good luck, John Well got the ss5800 installed. Can't test for glitching as its raining. But one thing I notice is the reverse is really really harsh. Goes from a dead stop to full reverse with the slightest touch of the throttle. That has to be rough on the tranny and such. Anyway around that? I recall thinking that at first with mine too. The real story is the pause for breaking before hitting reverse. Try this, when it goes to hard reverse... what position is your throttle trigger in? Most likely, you have pushed more and more reverse/break into the trigger because nothing was happening during the pause for breaking. Then the reverse kicks in at the power level that your trigger is at. The whole pause-for-breaking thing is something you have to get used to. I have found myself pumping the reverse/break and attempting to ease into the reverse mode. I guess I never thought about it, just sort of started doing it in order to stop spinning my wheels in reverse. Back to the glitching thing... You just got it installed now? So did you have a glitching problem yet? I hope you don't have some negative feelings about the Novak brushless setup before you even try it. I love mine, it is a great system! They last forever and don't need to be rebuilt. I run my buggies and trucks at the beach with paddle tires and the brushless motors are immune to damage from sand! With the open endbell motors, I would DESTROY a motor in a weekend. In my old Stampede, I run and old AstroFlight Turbo 05 cobalt offroad motor, also a sealed motor. I run the brushless ones in my XXX buggy and am installing a new one in my XXXT. I have given up organized racing for a while. I just play and build for old friends and guys I used to race against. BTW, stick with the 17 tooth pinion. The wheelies are great and you might get a little more runtime from a battery pack. Let us know how it goes. If you want, I can post a few photos in the binaries group of my installations. John <phedralover@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1111198833.162685.273990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > Well got the ss5800 installed. Can't test for glitching as its raining. > But one thing I notice is the reverse is really really harsh. Goes from > a dead stop to full reverse with the slightest touch of the throttle. > That has to be rough on the tranny and such. Anyway around that? John, Thanks for the input! Took the truck out for some testing this weekend. That motor is wicked fast. I have it geared 15/84 as it stands. I clocked it via GPS at just at 35mph. Anyway I noticed the glitching starts in at about 150-165ft. At that range it sometimes takes off with warning. Only way to stop it is to trun off the controller. Is this prob. caused by EMI interupting or garbling the signal the tx is sending? > John, Thanks for the input! > > Is this prob. caused by EMI interupting or garbling the signal the tx > is sending? Hard to say. It could be as simple as the environment around the truck. Before we blame the radio or the truck, do you loose control at the same spot on the ground all the time? By this I mean does the truck go nuts at the same location every time? It could be a metal (chain link) fence, or underground power limes. I have a spot in my alley that I must avoid at all costs, even my FM radios cant see through the noise at the base of that damn light pole. Next, is your range any worse now than it was before the brushless system went in? Is your routing of the radio leads from the speed controller on the other side of the truck from the antenna? You should route the radio leads on the left side of the truck. The other things to check are rather obvious. Good batteries in the transmitter, transmitter antenna screwed in tight, Crystal in tight, receiver antenna fully extended and not cut short, receiver crystal in tight and not damaged. All the history of the brushless motors is they produce LESS RF noise than brushless motors. I still think looking for other problems first is the way to go. To answer your question directly, Yes... It can be signal interruption OR garbling the otherwise clear signal your radio is sending. The closer the receiver is to the source or the noise, the more likely there will be glitching. Keep at it, John John, It is not happening in the same spot. But it happening in about the same distance no matter what the outside conditions are. I have tried in on empty streets with nothing around, dirt fields, etc. Before, when I had a Speedgems Extreme 15T and a Futaba 330 ESC, I could easily go 300+ feet with no problems. I have changed nothing other than replace that motor/esc with the Novak SS. I am using quality batteries. GP 3300mah cells fully charged. The receiver also gets its power from the esc. I notice just before the truck gets into the 'danger' zone, while at about 10-30% throttle it starts jerking a bit. If I drive it any further than that it will go haywire. Here is a picture of the truck/setup as it stands. http://home.pacbell.net/cclary1/IMG_0701.JPG Thanks again for the help. Thanks for the photo. Looks good. The only, and last idea I have would be to twist the power wires to the motor. I mean, remove the motor OR the ESC and spin it aruond three or so times and then reinstall it. Twisting the wires (like a rope or candy cane) helps to lessen the antenna effect of the wire. Helps produce less noise. After trying that, if you still have any range issues, I think you should contact Novak. Look around their site for tips, maybe send a post to Charlie Suangka at Novak. charlie@teamnovak.com Look here for help, they have helped me a lot: Customer Service Section : http://teamnovak.com/cust_serv/cust_new.html Technical information section: http://teamnovak.com/Tech_info/index.htm Instruction Manual Section: http://teamnovak.com/Download/index.htm Product information Section: http://teamnovak.com/products/index2.htm I'm out of guesses, maybe it is the Novac system. John Thanks. I will try the twisted wires. I emailed Novak and was a little dispointed in there response. Heres what I got. Well, the stock radio system isn't the greatest, I've had a few complaints that were similar. But the Super Sport should work fine if the radio system is perfect. You can try a new receiver or a new set of crystals, but more then likely this problem is not coming from the ESC, that is why it is effected by range. Range related problems are signs of bad receivers or radios. I told him that with my brushed setup I could go 400+ feet with 0 problems. If I could get 200ft I would be happy. I will see how the twisted wire approach works. try an extra set of caps frst. just et thrm on in addition, You don't use capacitors on brushless motors. > try an extra set of caps frst. just et thrm on in addition, > You don't use capacitors on brushless motors. > >>try an extra set of caps frst. just et thrm on in addition, On the contrary. My Novak SS has one huge cap on the ESC. No caps on the motor can itself, though. Read Pat's post. I was referring to that bonehead's idea. >> You don't use capacitors on brushless motors. >> >>>try an extra set of caps frst. just et thrm on in addition, >> > On the contrary. My Novak SS has one huge cap on the ESC. No caps on the > motor can itself, though. > try an extra set of caps frst. just et thrm on in addition, Thats been tried and does nothing. The glitching starts at about the same distance no matter the surroundings. I use good batteries. GP3300 mah. The receiver get the power from this. With my old setup, speedgems extreme 15t I could go over 300 feet with no problem. I notice right before I loose complete control, the care hiccups while driving at 10-40% throttle. Heres a pic of the truck. http://home.pacbell.net/cclary1/IMG_0701.JPG Depending on your radio you could play with the throttle/reverse end point and expo adjustment to dial this out. MIKE > Well got the ss5800 installed. Can't test for glitching as its raining. > But one thing I notice is the reverse is really really harsh. Goes from > a dead stop to full reverse with the slightest touch of the throttle. > That has to be rough on the tranny and such. Anyway around that? I don't have any options on my radio as its just the one that came with the RTR truck. I have found some info on someone building a shielding or Faraday cage around the esc and it seems to really help. http://monster.traxxas.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=274310 I saw the photo of your vehicle and you might try this. let the excess antenna wire dangle loose for a test run or two. When you tie it over itself like that it is similsr to cutting the antenna short. let me know if it wirks and I can tell you how to coil it uo in the chassis and overcome the problem. > I saw the photo of your vehicle and you might try this. let the excess > antenna wire dangle loose for a test run or two. > When you tie it over itself like that it is similsr to cutting the antenna > short. > let me know if it wirks and I can tell you how to coil it uo in the chassis > and overcome the problem. I unwinded the antenna. I got about an extra 10' or so, not much. Where could I coil the antenna? Thank you. Metal to carbon also causes glitch. . if bare metal of the battery makes contact with the chasis "glitch" TM > If the brushless set up is causing the glitching, you have > a BIG problem. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > could stop the SS5800 from generating so much radio interference. Any > > succesfully cured glitching on there rc car with this setup? |
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