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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Land Models / August 2005Savage's are fun
Well on the w/e I tuned the engine out after I finished the last tank of runin. This thing flies now. But as per usual, I now have a problem. I toasted my clutch! Big time too. When built the truck, I got to the clutch and noticed that it uses plastic shoes. I thought yuk and chucked some spare Inferno MP7.5 shoes in there (which are made of aluminium) and used the stock clutch bell. Went fine for the first 2 or so tanks with a tuned engine. Then it started slipping like mad, then shortly after started smoking (only lightly) and it STANK bigtime. Are there 2 different types of clutch bell material? Ie are you not allowed to run metal shoes with clutch bells that come with plastic shoes? There was an awful lot of metallic powder all around the chassis where the flywheel spins which are the remains of the shoes. I know this is asking a lot, but would you all think that the bell is ok, so just chuck the old plastic shoes in and hope for the best? If its toast, s'ok, I'll rebuild it (cough, toss it, cough) and put a full metal MP7.5 clutch in there (I've never had a single problem with either of my 2 Inferno clutches) and hope that it'll hold out cause of the extra torque and extra weight... Cheers Dre Inline................ > Well on the w/e I tuned the engine out after I finished the last tank of > runin. This thing flies now. But as per usual, I now have a problem. That's par for the course with Nitro RC in general eh? > Are there 2 different types of clutch bell material? Ie are you not > allowed > to run metal shoes with clutch bells that come with plastic shoes? There are more than two types, I've seen them made from el cheapo pot metal, 6065 aluminum, 7075 aluminum, steel, hardened steel, titanium, etc. Generally speaking, as long as the clutchbell material is harder than the clutch material you're good to go. Sounds like you have a driveline bind or brakes dragging that was causing the clutch to be overworked. I'd give everything a real thorough look-see before I fired her up again. > I know this is asking a lot, but would you all think that the bell is ok, > so > just chuck the old plastic shoes in and hope for the best? Check the inner surface for grooves or gashes that may have been caused by the aluminum shoes and also assess the overall thickness of the clutchbell. If it's still smooth inside and of uniform thickness all the way around, I'd wager it's fine. I've been running the stock shoes now for 3 gallons and no problems whatsoever. I see no conceivable gain switching to aluminum shoes at this point! Doc > Inline................ > > > Well on the w/e I tuned the engine out after I finished the last tank of > > runin. This thing flies now. But as per usual, I now have a problem. > > That's par for the course with Nitro RC in general eh? Nice, I was hoping you'd reply :) yeah for sure, drive drive drive, break, fix, drive drive drive <rinse and repeat> I find it all part of the fun! Plus now I can say, my savage has allready blown a clutch, hehehehe > > Are there 2 different types of clutch bell material? Ie are you not > > allowed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > brakes dragging that was causing the clutch to be overworked. I'd give > everything a real thorough look-see before I fired her up again. Definately no driveline drag, I personally hate cars that drag, I like efficiency and drag is a big enemy! But now you mention the different materials you could have hit the nail on the head. About 3 months ago I bought 2 sets of shoes off ebay for $6 (waaaay to cheap, hence the purchase), maybe these aren't original Inferno shoes, but cheap knock offs. Could explain the short life... > > I know this is asking a lot, but would you all think that the bell is ok, > > so [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If it's still smooth inside and of uniform thickness all the way around, I'd > wager it's fine. Well the bell has got some visible grooves in it, but when you run your finger over it you cant feel it, you can only feel the lip with your fingernail, but only just. Nevermind, I have a Robinson Racing 48/16 on the way from Tower so what I'll do is strip the clutch, put the stock plastic shoes back in there and see how I go. I'll then change the bell with the spur gear when it arrives... > I've been running the stock shoes now for 3 gallons and no problems > whatsoever. I see no conceivable gain switching to aluminum shoes at this > point! Thats all you had to say :) Plastics are going back in again! Thanks heaps for the info Cheers Dre > Doc > Well the bell has got some visible grooves in it, but when you run your > finger over it you cant feel it, you can only feel the lip with your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shoes back in there and see how I go. I'll then change the bell with the > spur gear when it arrives... Sounds like you'll be fine then if the groove is just barely there. Wouldn't be bad to hold on to as an extra. I'm planning to order the RR 48/16 myself in a week or so. > Thanks heaps for the info You're welcome. I'm learning as I go with this animal, and the more I learn, the more I like it. I'm thinking of grabbing another one, probably a roller and build it up for racing so I can leave the one I have set up for jumping and bashing. E-Bay has em' new for $170 (missing motor, shocks, wheels, tires and dogbones), so I figure for under $400 I could build a fullbred racer. Doc > > Well the bell has got some visible grooves in it, but when you run your > > finger over it you cant feel it, you can only feel the lip with your [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Wouldn't be bad to hold on to as an extra. I'm planning to order the RR > 48/16 myself in a week or so. Thats what I think as well, only thing is its a 17tooth which is one tooth too many. Looking forward to fitting the 16 tooth... BTW, do you have clearance problems between your exhaust header, the chassis and the shock on that side? I have the adjustable shocks and with the header hard up touching the chassis plate, the adjuster on the shock hits the header. Its a touch fit, but it fits and only touches when the shocks are fully extended (ie, in the air) > > Thanks heaps for the info > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Doc Nice, and then you can race yourself (if you had 4 arms and 2 heads that is :) I'm the same, even though I've been mucking around with RC cars (both electric and nitro) for over 15 years, I still learn every single time I run one. Your not wrong about liking it more and more. Not long after I got my Savage, I went to service my Tmaxx, one look at it and all its tinny little bits and I thought, right, now your converted, Savage all the way. I then bought a gearbox, chassis, and speedy second hand from an emaxx and converted it. Best electric truck I've ever seen, driven, crashed by far, without a doubt. But then shortly after I saw the E-zilla :) Nevermind, I'll kane the emaxx for a while, then consider the E-zilla once I've seen one in the metal, you never know as soon as I see it/touch it, I might be just as hooked to it as I am to the Savage atm :) Cheers Dre > BTW, do you have clearance problems between your exhaust header, the > chassis > and the shock on that side? I have the adjustable shocks and with the > header hard up touching the chassis plate, the adjuster on the shock hits > the header. Its a touch fit, but it fits and only touches when the shocks > are fully extended (ie, in the air) Yeah, I have a touch fit as well between the header/shocks/chassis plate. I was thinking of grinding the chassis plate down (putting a groove in it) so the header can hug the chassis a bit closer and clear the shocks. There is a visible groove on the header where it has been rubbing the shock. > Your not wrong about liking it more and more. Not long after I got my > Savage, I went to service my Tmaxx, one look at it and all its tinny [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > one in the metal, you never know as soon as I see it/touch it, I might be > just as hooked to it as I am to the Savage atm :) I'm thinking of grabbing an E-Maxx or E-Zilla myself. In the evenings, there are lots of times I just want to putz around the yard and then go in; nitro running always turns into a several hour affair with the prep and cleaning required afterwards! It would be nice to flick an electric on, drive it for 20 minutes, then put it back in the garage and head inside. Doc > > BTW, do you have clearance problems between your exhaust header, the > > chassis [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the header can hug the chassis a bit closer and clear the shocks. There is > a visible groove on the header where it has been rubbing the shock. Yep, same, there is a small dent/groove where the adjuster hits the header. I think I'll wait till the new spur/bell arrive because that'll move the engine again so it may fit a little better (prolly not). I've actually got a set of blue firmer springs on the way from Tower as well, so hoping that those, plus some thicker shock oil will enable me to move the adjusters up the shocks by 5mm, which will a) give me less boucey shocks, b) give me firmer suspension and c) hopefully clear the header :) I dont think I want to grind the chassis at this stage... > > Your not wrong about liking it more and more. Not long after I got my > > Savage, I went to service my Tmaxx, one look at it and all its tinny [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Doc EXACTLY!!! and with the new 3000mah matched packs in there I get at least 30 minutes of runtime and thats not full throttle up hills and rock climbing etc. I was so surprised with that so I bought another pair of batts (same type) so with them all fully charged, hour runtime no problems at all! Plus my Savage is sooo bloody loud now its hard to find places that wont annoy people. The local reserve where I used to drive has turned into a dog training/walking area so all the dog owners hate the noise/smoke etc (the dogs love it though :) Cheers Dre > > > BTW, do you have clearance problems between your exhaust header, the > > > chassis [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > EXACTLY!!! and with the new 3000mah matched packs in there I get at least > 30 minutes of runtime and thats <SNIP, add> *ALL* <SNIP, end of add) full throttle up hills and rock climbing > etc. I was so surprised with that so I bought another pair of batts (same > type) so with them all fully charged, hour runtime no problems at all! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheers Dre Whoops, error in second last para... should read "all", not "not", bad mistake to make :) Cheers Dre Inline.............................. >> EXACTLY!!! and with the new 3000mah matched packs in there I get at >> least [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> (same >> type) so with them all fully charged, hour runtime no problems at all! Sold, I'm gunna grab one for Christmas I think. They'd really fly with a brushless setup eh? >> Plus my Savage is sooo bloody loud now its hard to find places that wont >> annoy people. The local reserve where I used to drive has turned into a > dog >> training/walking area so all the dog owners hate the noise/smoke etc (the >> dogs love it though :) Aye, they are farkin' loud! Hurts my ears when I do a close pass at WOT. Doc > Inline.............................. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Sold, I'm gunna grab one for Christmas I think. They'd really fly with a > brushless setup eh? Well while the motors and stuff was on the way I did think, hmmm, maybe I should have gone brushless instead. But now that I've put some batteries through it, I really cant be bothered. If you start out in 2nd gear, the truck will still launch hard (leaving roosters behind) and accelerate very quick up a 30deg slope (my test hill). Donuts in 1st or 2nd gear no worries (2nd gear donuts squint the eyes in case of flying rocks!) A brushless setup might make it a little too flippy (if you know what I mean). Plus the drive shafts are all plastic so you'd prolly start twisting them (considering you start to do that if you put a .18 in a T-maxx). Reverse slowly then boot it forwards and the truck'll flip over every time. I still haven't mastered the art of the reverse->forwards wheelie yet, but I just had a brilliant idea. I'm tempted to set the speedy so that full reverse on the radio is actually only 85%-90% on the speedy (who needs full power in reverse anyway) so that I can jam the trigger and it'll have perfect amount of grunt to wheely. Atm you have to try and hit around 3/4 reverse on the radio to stop it from flipping, ie not easy to nail (I flip it alot :) I really want to check out an E-zilla in the metal, see how durable it is compared to an Emaxx and a Savage. It is a 1/10th scale so should be slightly smaller than a Savage but hopefully just as tough, then I'd be tempted to sell the Emaxx to one of my mates and get a brushless E-zilla :) (all my mates want an Emaxx and a Savage after they saw mine, but dont want to spend the money for new and dont want the extra work etc, so 2nd hand from me is very appealing to them) > >> Plus my Savage is sooo bloody loud now its hard to find places that wont > >> annoy people. The local reserve where I used to drive has turned into a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Doc Hehehe, my tuning area is behind my shed which is surrounded by walls, so sound bounces off the walls, on the grass though its much quieter. I reckon a lot of that is to do with the ripped pipe on there, if you look down the end you can see all the way through it, no baffles at all :) Cheers Dre > > Inline.............................. > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > reverse on the radio to stop it from flipping, ie not easy to nail (I flip > it alot :) <snip> sh.t, I've done it again. First off, replying to myself again, second, forget the above paragraph, I screwed up, that wont make any difference except slower reverse :) You need to not punch it as hard in *forward* to avoid the flip and there aint no way in hell I'm limiting forwards power :) Carry on! Cheers Dre > I really want to check out an E-zilla in the metal, see how durable it is > compared to an Emaxx and a Savage. It is a 1/10th scale so should be [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Cheers Dre The part number 87151b is wrong for the clutch shoes. The correct part number should be just 87151. If you are racing your Savage, or just run it a lot on dirt for that matter, I would recommend the dual brakes setup (if you don't already have it), and also the center skid plate, like from Integy or Golden Horizon, etc. That would dramatically help braking and cleanup. Give them a try! Yeah I call totally understand the E-Maxx versus any nitro trucks causing noise problems. We have started selling more E-Maxx versus Savage (but don't get me wrong, the Savage is still the best selling Nitro Monster). Fitting in the brushless system, robinson racing slipper clutch, and center CVD, you are all ready to eat any Nitro Monster truck, alive! www.sfrchobbies.com > Well on the w/e I tuned the engine out after I finished the last tank of > runin. This thing flies now. But as per usual, I now have a problem. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Cheers Dre Sounds like you've got some dodgy shoes mate - but i'm surprised the S-25 managed to destroy them that quickly still. I'm running the standard teflon 3 shoe that comes with the Sav 25/4.6 etc on my K4.6 engine, and it barely looks used so far, about a gallon in - bearing in mind my SH .28 went through about 1 of these clutches every 4 or 5 runs.... Shove the stock teflon (black plastic) ones on - they do the job admirably :)  SignatureDan > > Well on the w/e I tuned the engine out after I finished the last tank of > > runin. This thing flies now. But as per usual, I now have a problem. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Shove the stock teflon (black plastic) ones on - they do the job admirably > :) Sold! Plastic ones are going back in tonight :) Yeah the more I think about it, the more I think I got stoooged with the shoes, they were VERY cheap. When the clutch did stick though, pick up one wheel and whoa, BALLOOON like crazy, was a heap of fun. Oh and now I know why they call it a Savage, the t-maxx used to be mean, but this thing is SAVAGE! Cheers Dre (might go put an order in for a heap of plastic shoes :) Inline................ > Oh and now I know why they call it a Savage, the t-maxx used to be mean, > but > this thing is SAVAGE! Damn right! My Sav destroys my buds' new T-Maxx with a WASP .18 in it. His Maxx will out corner and out turn mine any day of the week, but on the straights I run him down like he's standing still and more than make up for the Savage's battleship-like cornering ability. I'm sure some better wheels and tires would help with that, but I'm just gunna run these till they puke, then replace em'. Per way of durability I'm amazed with this thing. I've unintentionally clobbered many large objects at full speed (trees, boulders, my garage, my 1:1 truck, other RC trucks, light poles, a set of bleachers at the ball field, etc.) and she refuses to break. So far, after 3 gallons, I've replaced the following: 1. Two spur gears (plastic) 2. Servo Saver shaft bushings (replaced with sealed bearings per M78Ultra's advice) Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, yep, that's it. ;-) She's gunna need some drive cups and center shafts pretty soon, but that's just about all I can see in the near future. > Cheers Dre (might go put an order in for a heap of plastic shoes :) I'd just order one set as the stock ones seem to last forever. Doc > Inline................ > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and tires would help with that, but I'm just gunna run these till they puke, > then replace em'. Easy, turn in earlier, brake hard and quick, then floor it, that should whip the arse around ready for you to steer it up the next straight at full noise :) Plus it leaves 2 dirty great rooster tails behind you. Bet your Tmaxx mate will hate it :) I certainly cant do anything with the old tmaxx that the savage cant, it simply kicks its butt in every aspect! I find with trucks this size they tend to understeer like pigs when on the throttle so the first thing I try and do to the handling is make the arse end real slippery, that way it turns the truck into an oversteering pig, but at least that way you can help the steering with the throttle :) > Per way of durability I'm amazed with this thing. I've unintentionally > clobbered many large objects at full speed (trees, boulders, my garage, my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 2. Servo Saver shaft bushings (replaced with sealed bearings per M78Ultra's > advice) Allready sorted, mines allready got (when the gears arrive) the RR steel spur and steering ball bearings :) > Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, yep, that's it. ;-) > > She's gunna need some drive cups and center shafts pretty soon, but that's > just about all I can see in the near future. Yup, well get the hardened shafts and cups, strong as, plus they look puuuurty in silver, hehehehe > > Cheers Dre (might go put an order in for a heap of plastic shoes :) > > I'd just order one set as the stock ones seem to last forever. > > Doc Well the Savage 4.6 manual says that the part number for the shoes are 87151a, but Tower only list 87151 (look exactly the same), and they are 7.70USD from Tower so I think I'll grab a couple of sets, I hate having a busted truck and having to wait for replacement parts (I have a TON of spares at any one time cause of that exact reason :) Cheers Dre > > Well on the w/e I tuned the engine out after I finished the last tank of > > runin. This thing flies now. But as per usual, I now have a problem. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Sounds like you've got some dodgy shoes mate - but i'm surprised the S-25 > managed to destroy them that quickly still. I'm running the standard teflon <snip> Btw, my Savage is an SS4.6 so it has the K46 in it, which may have contributed to the clutch meltdown :) Cheers Dre > :) |
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