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Nitro % for a Rustler ?

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Iowa883 - 30 Aug 2005 02:44 GMT
I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
what is a brand at a decent price ?
I also live 8 miles from the Sig model airplane plant and they have a type
of nitro for cars/trucks. Has anyone happen to use it ?
Thanks,
Iowa883
nospam@noway.com - 30 Aug 2005 03:32 GMT
>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883

Use Traxxas Top Fuel 20%.  It's designed for the TRX .15 and TRX 2.5 motors
as they have a tendency to run hot.  I run O'Donnels 20% in my trucks.
Trinity also makes a good fuel.  O'Donnels is the most expensive I've seen,
but IMO it's the best.  Runs clean and cool.

The Sig fuel might be a re-badged plane fuel, which has less nitro (usually
10%) and more oil (usually 18%+).  This would run in your Rustler but it
would be a sluggish, smoking pig of a vehicle.  You want at least 20% nitro
and around 12-14% oil.  If you run 25% or the Traxxas 33%, you'll have to
add a head shim to get the compression down or it's snapped rod central!

Doc
Phroziac - 30 Aug 2005 04:21 GMT
There is nothing special about that fuel, the "made for XXXX engine" is
marketing and placebo effect. I've never even used it, and my traxxas
engines worked fine. Infact, traxxas doesn't make their own fuel, and I
used to know the place that did. I run Fantom 30% race blend
personally, which is made by Coopers and has something like 1% less oil
then the Coopers stuff. I didn't even have to tune when i switched
between those brands, heh.

I've used 20% plane fuel, it's *ok*, but car fuel definitely works
better. If you get the plane fuel, make sure it's 18%. There's higher
oil percentages, which run worse in cars. Planes use a lot of oil for
various reasons I don't really understand, including the fact that they
don't need snappy throttle response like cars.

Since you're new, I'd reccomend 20% nitro, and not the race blend
stuff. Just the regular 20% car fuel. Race blends have less oil, they
run much better, cooler, etc, but they will seriously damage your
engine much quicker if tuned improperly, which is very common for new
people. 30% gets more power and runs cooler also, but is harder to
tune.

Brands don't matter much, make sure it's not just some stuff made in
some guy's basement though! Supposedly some brands are worse then
others, but I don't have the money to go experimenting with everything.
I'd like to try White Lightning though.

Traxxas is ok i've heard. I doubt they'd sell the fuel if it didn't run
well.
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 00:48 GMT
Inline..............................

> There is nothing special about that fuel, the "made for XXXX engine" is
> marketing and placebo effect. I've never even used it, and my traxxas
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> then the Coopers stuff. I didn't even have to tune when i switched
> between those brands, heh.

Never said Top Fuel was anything special, but it's manufacturer recommended
so he can't go wrong.

> I've used 20% plane fuel, it's *ok*, but car fuel definitely works
> better. If you get the plane fuel, make sure it's 18%. There's higher
> oil percentages, which run worse in cars. Planes use a lot of oil for
> various reasons I don't really understand, including the fact that they
> don't need snappy throttle response like cars.

Planes require more oil because they are turning mid-high RPM's CONSTANTLY.
Land vehix are pretty much on/off, on/off, on/off when it comes to throttle,
but planes are running 50%+ throttle the entire time they're in the air.

> Since you're new, I'd reccomend 20% nitro, and not the race blend
> stuff. Just the regular 20% car fuel. Race blends have less oil, they
> run much better, cooler, etc, but they will seriously damage your
> engine much quicker if tuned improperly, which is very common for new
> people. 30% gets more power and runs cooler also, but is harder to
> tune.

Ahhh, the higher nitro = cooler engine debate................ya see, IMO it
makes stuff run hotter as it increases compression and creates a hotter,
more complete burn.

Doc
Dylan - 31 Aug 2005 09:39 GMT
I have a few Nitro cars, some thatrun 10% and others that run 20%, the 20%
ones run hotter, and cleaner., the fuel is the same brand as one another,
just one is higher in nitro %. so IMO the higher the Nitro % the hotter and
cleaner it runs.

Also if youa re just starting out, and are not used to major tuning of RCC's
id stick with 20%, easier to just get out and use, once you get into the 30%
you need to space your heads or you will break stuff in ya engine, and it
gets a lot harder to tune a car when you are starting out.

Once you go lower in Nirto %, your car will seem smokey, and seem like it
always throws oil out the pipes, This is normal, just annoying when you have
to clean stuff.

IMO stick with 20% till you know what you are doing.

Dylan.

PS.. still looking for performance pipes for a .25

> Inline..............................
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Doc
Boat Hull Maker - 18 Sep 2005 19:06 GMT
Depend on the type of oil but not nitromethane.  Higher % castor oil,
more oil come out from the exhaust and also more smoky.  The smoke is
fine castor oil droplet.  If pure synthetic oil, your model will run
very clean.  Modern fuel contain mix of castor oil and synthetic oil.

Nitromethane matter the engine power, read my other post too.

> Once you go lower in Nirto %, your car will seem smokey, and seem like it
> always throws oil out the pipes, This is normal, just annoying when you have
> to clean stuff.
Bad Maxx - 30 Aug 2005 07:24 GMT
> I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
> wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883
Bad Maxx - 30 Aug 2005 07:24 GMT
> I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
> wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883
Bad Maxx - 30 Aug 2005 07:31 GMT
Wow, what kind of info are you guys trying to give this guy??? Brands
all have their fans some will swear Traxxas is worthless and to only
use Trinity. Others will tell you exactly the opposite and this goes
for all brands available. BUT the one thing you should NEVER do is
change percentage of nitro from one tank to the next. If the engine is
broken in on 20% stick to 20% for the life of the engine. EVERY
manufacturer of Nitro engines makes this quite clear. Switching will
not blow up your engine or anything that dramatic but it will severly
shorten the life of your engine.
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 00:45 GMT
> Wow, what kind of info are you guys trying to give this guy??? Brands
> all have their fans some will swear Traxxas is worthless and to only
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> not blow up your engine or anything that dramatic but it will severly
> shorten the life of your engine.

Third time's a charm right?  <g>

Anyhow, you're way off base with the nitro switching.  Switching from 20% to
30% from one tank to the next is BAD news, that I'll give ya, but switching
nitro contents with the appropriate measures (additional head shims +
retune) doesn't pose any problems at all.

Higher nitro fuels equal shorter engine life period.  It's not the switching
that causes a problem, it's the fact that higher nitro =  higher compression
= shorter engine life.

Doc
Iowa883 - 30 Aug 2005 23:14 GMT
My co-worker said he ran Traxxas 20% in it all its life. Should I stick with
it or run another 20 %  ?
Thanks,
Iowa883

>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 00:42 GMT
> My co-worker said he ran Traxxas 20% in it all its life. Should I stick
> with it or run another 20 %  ?
> Thanks,
> Iowa883

It really doesn't matter so long as it's a quality, brand-name fuel.  If
it's been running Traxxas' Top Fuel, I'd stick with it as you won't have to
retune, which you might end up doing if you switch fuels.

Doc

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

>>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
>>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> Thanks,
>> Iowa883
Iowa883 - 31 Aug 2005 03:06 GMT
>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883

How about this ? Like I said, I wouldn't have any shipping as I work in the
same town and I am there everyday.
check this out :
http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV4.html?E+Sig

Thanks,
Iowa883
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 03:59 GMT
>>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
>>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883

Neither of their car fuels are your best bet, and here's why:

Champion Car Fuel--> Only available in 15% and 25%.  You need 20%.

Special Blend Intimidator Car --> 20% is way overpriced at $34.99 a gallon.
It's good fuel as Klotz lube is considered the gold standard, but you can
get Traxxas TopFuel, O' Donnels, Trinity, etc. for around $24.99 gallon, ten
bucks less than the Sig fuel.

Doc
Scotty - 01 Sep 2005 03:46 GMT
>>>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
>>>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Champion Car Fuel--> Only available in 15% and 25%.  You need 20%.

Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2 gallons
of 20%?

> Special Blend Intimidator Car --> 20% is way overpriced at $34.99 a
> gallon. It's good fuel as Klotz lube is considered the gold standard, but
> you can get Traxxas TopFuel, O' Donnels, Trinity, etc. for around $24.99
> gallon, ten bucks less than the Sig fuel.
>
> Doc
nospam@noway.com - 01 Sep 2005 05:12 GMT
> Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2
> gallons of 20%?

He he he he he he.................

Doc
Scotty - 01 Sep 2005 05:21 GMT
>> Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2
>> gallons of 20%?
>
> He he he he he he.................
>
> Doc

So is that a yay or a nay?
M78Ultra - 01 Sep 2005 13:41 GMT
One LHS is closing and went to 35% off....my friends bought several gallons
of O'Donnells 30% and Blue Thunder 10% and mixed them(as they were sold out
of 20%).... Does it make 20%?...I would assume ,yes, but,I don't know, they
say it runs good, and is a pretty light blue color  =)   ...(be sure to
shake it up well before each use)

> >> Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2
> >> gallons of 20%?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> So is that a yay or a nay?
sbb78247 - 08 Sep 2005 02:42 GMT
> I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I
> was wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883

There is nothing wrong with the Traxxas fuel.  If the truck was used to it,
tuned to it, etc. then run it.  It will make your life much more simple
unless you want to tune things.

My experience (which is not much) - I ran 20% Traxxas in an OS CV-R 12 and a
CV-15 without an issue.  The CV-15 runs 30% now with a colder plug, a little
tuning and kicks a.s.

YMMV

Good luck,

S
Boat Hull Maker - 18 Sep 2005 18:48 GMT
> I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was
> wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Thanks,
> Iowa883

Read them at this page too: http://www.btorcboat.com/html/CH3NO2.html

What nitromethane matter:

Straightly speaking is: higher % nitromethane give more power. More
power is higher rpm and/or higher torque. It depend on the type of model
you are running. Car need higher rpm. Boat and airplane do not need
higher rpm but higher power, turn a larger propeller, keeping the
maximum power rpm.

Nitromethane is CH3NO2. It is the O2 matter the power. As nitromethane
burn, will release O2, that is the source of oxidizer. So, for the same
amout of air, higher nitromethane content can burn more fuel. That is
why more power come. With higher % nitromethane, you need to open the
needle valve more. The engine suck same amount of air, but higher volume
of fuel, so give higher power. Your model will run faster, fuel will be
used up faster. So, higher % nitromethane means less running time.

Nitromethane do not help ideling. Instead, you need to choose correct
glow plug temperature that really matter the ideling.

Nitromethane also do not help running your engine cooler. Higher power
means more energy is released in the same amount of time. So, your
engine will become hotter. Power is J per second. If you look at some
new model of car engine, will found that the heat sink fin area in
continuing increasing. Some Nove Rossi engine almost use up all area of
the crank case.

Lubricant do not give power but protect the engine.

************************

What nitromethane matter the engine power:

Nitromethane

4CH3NO2(l) + 3O2(g) → 4CO2(g) + 6H2O(g) + 2N2(g)
Methyl Alcohol

2CH3OH(l) + 3O2(g) → 2CO2(g) + 4H2O(g)
Both equations use 3O2, 4 molecule of nitromethane were used. But 2
molecule of methyl alcohol were used. Burning of nitromethane produce
double volume of gas to burning methyl alcohol. (measured at same
temperature and pressure. But before the gas escape the combustion
chamber, burning nitromethane likely produce higher temperature and
higher pressure. That is why higher power.)

Pressure * Volume/Temperature is a physical constant. If volume is
fixed(that is the engine displacement), pressure and temperature must
increased. Double volume of gas confined in the combustion chamber,
exert larger force on the piston.

Energy released from burning fuel, partly converted to mechanical
energy, partly converted to heat energy. If the fuel input increased,
the output energy increase too, both mechanical and heat.
 
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