Nitro % for a Rustler ?
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Iowa883 - 30 Aug 2005 02:44 GMT I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, what is a brand at a decent price ? I also live 8 miles from the Sig model airplane plant and they have a type of nitro for cars/trucks. Has anyone happen to use it ? Thanks, Iowa883
nospam@noway.com - 30 Aug 2005 03:32 GMT >I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was >wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 Use Traxxas Top Fuel 20%. It's designed for the TRX .15 and TRX 2.5 motors as they have a tendency to run hot. I run O'Donnels 20% in my trucks. Trinity also makes a good fuel. O'Donnels is the most expensive I've seen, but IMO it's the best. Runs clean and cool.
The Sig fuel might be a re-badged plane fuel, which has less nitro (usually 10%) and more oil (usually 18%+). This would run in your Rustler but it would be a sluggish, smoking pig of a vehicle. You want at least 20% nitro and around 12-14% oil. If you run 25% or the Traxxas 33%, you'll have to add a head shim to get the compression down or it's snapped rod central!
Doc
Phroziac - 30 Aug 2005 04:21 GMT There is nothing special about that fuel, the "made for XXXX engine" is marketing and placebo effect. I've never even used it, and my traxxas engines worked fine. Infact, traxxas doesn't make their own fuel, and I used to know the place that did. I run Fantom 30% race blend personally, which is made by Coopers and has something like 1% less oil then the Coopers stuff. I didn't even have to tune when i switched between those brands, heh.
I've used 20% plane fuel, it's *ok*, but car fuel definitely works better. If you get the plane fuel, make sure it's 18%. There's higher oil percentages, which run worse in cars. Planes use a lot of oil for various reasons I don't really understand, including the fact that they don't need snappy throttle response like cars.
Since you're new, I'd reccomend 20% nitro, and not the race blend stuff. Just the regular 20% car fuel. Race blends have less oil, they run much better, cooler, etc, but they will seriously damage your engine much quicker if tuned improperly, which is very common for new people. 30% gets more power and runs cooler also, but is harder to tune.
Brands don't matter much, make sure it's not just some stuff made in some guy's basement though! Supposedly some brands are worse then others, but I don't have the money to go experimenting with everything. I'd like to try White Lightning though.
Traxxas is ok i've heard. I doubt they'd sell the fuel if it didn't run well.
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 00:48 GMT Inline..............................
> There is nothing special about that fuel, the "made for XXXX engine" is > marketing and placebo effect. I've never even used it, and my traxxas [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > then the Coopers stuff. I didn't even have to tune when i switched > between those brands, heh. Never said Top Fuel was anything special, but it's manufacturer recommended so he can't go wrong.
> I've used 20% plane fuel, it's *ok*, but car fuel definitely works > better. If you get the plane fuel, make sure it's 18%. There's higher > oil percentages, which run worse in cars. Planes use a lot of oil for > various reasons I don't really understand, including the fact that they > don't need snappy throttle response like cars. Planes require more oil because they are turning mid-high RPM's CONSTANTLY. Land vehix are pretty much on/off, on/off, on/off when it comes to throttle, but planes are running 50%+ throttle the entire time they're in the air.
> Since you're new, I'd reccomend 20% nitro, and not the race blend > stuff. Just the regular 20% car fuel. Race blends have less oil, they > run much better, cooler, etc, but they will seriously damage your > engine much quicker if tuned improperly, which is very common for new > people. 30% gets more power and runs cooler also, but is harder to > tune. Ahhh, the higher nitro = cooler engine debate................ya see, IMO it makes stuff run hotter as it increases compression and creates a hotter, more complete burn.
Doc
Dylan - 31 Aug 2005 09:39 GMT I have a few Nitro cars, some thatrun 10% and others that run 20%, the 20% ones run hotter, and cleaner., the fuel is the same brand as one another, just one is higher in nitro %. so IMO the higher the Nitro % the hotter and cleaner it runs.
Also if youa re just starting out, and are not used to major tuning of RCC's id stick with 20%, easier to just get out and use, once you get into the 30% you need to space your heads or you will break stuff in ya engine, and it gets a lot harder to tune a car when you are starting out.
Once you go lower in Nirto %, your car will seem smokey, and seem like it always throws oil out the pipes, This is normal, just annoying when you have to clean stuff.
IMO stick with 20% till you know what you are doing.
Dylan.
PS.. still looking for performance pipes for a .25
> Inline.............................. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Doc Boat Hull Maker - 18 Sep 2005 19:06 GMT Depend on the type of oil but not nitromethane. Higher % castor oil, more oil come out from the exhaust and also more smoky. The smoke is fine castor oil droplet. If pure synthetic oil, your model will run very clean. Modern fuel contain mix of castor oil and synthetic oil.
Nitromethane matter the engine power, read my other post too.
> Once you go lower in Nirto %, your car will seem smokey, and seem like it > always throws oil out the pipes, This is normal, just annoying when you have > to clean stuff. Bad Maxx - 30 Aug 2005 07:24 GMT > I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was > wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 Bad Maxx - 30 Aug 2005 07:24 GMT > I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was > wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 Bad Maxx - 30 Aug 2005 07:31 GMT Wow, what kind of info are you guys trying to give this guy??? Brands all have their fans some will swear Traxxas is worthless and to only use Trinity. Others will tell you exactly the opposite and this goes for all brands available. BUT the one thing you should NEVER do is change percentage of nitro from one tank to the next. If the engine is broken in on 20% stick to 20% for the life of the engine. EVERY manufacturer of Nitro engines makes this quite clear. Switching will not blow up your engine or anything that dramatic but it will severly shorten the life of your engine.
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 00:45 GMT > Wow, what kind of info are you guys trying to give this guy??? Brands > all have their fans some will swear Traxxas is worthless and to only [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > not blow up your engine or anything that dramatic but it will severly > shorten the life of your engine. Third time's a charm right? <g>
Anyhow, you're way off base with the nitro switching. Switching from 20% to 30% from one tank to the next is BAD news, that I'll give ya, but switching nitro contents with the appropriate measures (additional head shims + retune) doesn't pose any problems at all.
Higher nitro fuels equal shorter engine life period. It's not the switching that causes a problem, it's the fact that higher nitro = higher compression = shorter engine life.
Doc
Iowa883 - 30 Aug 2005 23:14 GMT My co-worker said he ran Traxxas 20% in it all its life. Should I stick with it or run another 20 % ? Thanks, Iowa883
>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was >wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 00:42 GMT > My co-worker said he ran Traxxas 20% in it all its life. Should I stick > with it or run another 20 % ? > Thanks, > Iowa883 It really doesn't matter so long as it's a quality, brand-name fuel. If it's been running Traxxas' Top Fuel, I'd stick with it as you won't have to retune, which you might end up doing if you switch fuels.
Doc
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>>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was >>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Thanks, >> Iowa883 Iowa883 - 31 Aug 2005 03:06 GMT >I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was >wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 How about this ? Like I said, I wouldn't have any shipping as I work in the same town and I am there everyday. check this out : http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV4.html?E+Sig
Thanks, Iowa883
nospam@noway.com - 31 Aug 2005 03:59 GMT >>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was >>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 Neither of their car fuels are your best bet, and here's why:
Champion Car Fuel--> Only available in 15% and 25%. You need 20%.
Special Blend Intimidator Car --> 20% is way overpriced at $34.99 a gallon. It's good fuel as Klotz lube is considered the gold standard, but you can get Traxxas TopFuel, O' Donnels, Trinity, etc. for around $24.99 gallon, ten bucks less than the Sig fuel.
Doc
Scotty - 01 Sep 2005 03:46 GMT >>>I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was >>>wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Champion Car Fuel--> Only available in 15% and 25%. You need 20%. Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2 gallons of 20%?
> Special Blend Intimidator Car --> 20% is way overpriced at $34.99 a > gallon. It's good fuel as Klotz lube is considered the gold standard, but > you can get Traxxas TopFuel, O' Donnels, Trinity, etc. for around $24.99 > gallon, ten bucks less than the Sig fuel. > > Doc nospam@noway.com - 01 Sep 2005 05:12 GMT > Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2 > gallons of 20%? He he he he he he.................
Doc
Scotty - 01 Sep 2005 05:21 GMT >> Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2 >> gallons of 20%? > > He he he he he he................. > > Doc So is that a yay or a nay?
M78Ultra - 01 Sep 2005 13:41 GMT One LHS is closing and went to 35% off....my friends bought several gallons of O'Donnells 30% and Blue Thunder 10% and mixed them(as they were sold out of 20%).... Does it make 20%?...I would assume ,yes, but,I don't know, they say it runs good, and is a pretty light blue color =) ...(be sure to shake it up well before each use)
> >> Could you mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 25% and end up with 2 > >> gallons of 20%? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So is that a yay or a nay? sbb78247 - 08 Sep 2005 02:42 GMT > I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I > was wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 There is nothing wrong with the Traxxas fuel. If the truck was used to it, tuned to it, etc. then run it. It will make your life much more simple unless you want to tune things.
My experience (which is not much) - I ran 20% Traxxas in an OS CV-R 12 and a CV-15 without an issue. The CV-15 runs 30% now with a colder plug, a little tuning and kicks a.s.
YMMV
Good luck,
S
Boat Hull Maker - 18 Sep 2005 18:48 GMT > I just got my hands on a good used nitro Rustler from a co-worker . I was > wondering what % of nitro to use ? Also are brands all the same ? If so, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > Iowa883 Read them at this page too: http://www.btorcboat.com/html/CH3NO2.html
What nitromethane matter:
Straightly speaking is: higher % nitromethane give more power. More power is higher rpm and/or higher torque. It depend on the type of model you are running. Car need higher rpm. Boat and airplane do not need higher rpm but higher power, turn a larger propeller, keeping the maximum power rpm.
Nitromethane is CH3NO2. It is the O2 matter the power. As nitromethane burn, will release O2, that is the source of oxidizer. So, for the same amout of air, higher nitromethane content can burn more fuel. That is why more power come. With higher % nitromethane, you need to open the needle valve more. The engine suck same amount of air, but higher volume of fuel, so give higher power. Your model will run faster, fuel will be used up faster. So, higher % nitromethane means less running time.
Nitromethane do not help ideling. Instead, you need to choose correct glow plug temperature that really matter the ideling.
Nitromethane also do not help running your engine cooler. Higher power means more energy is released in the same amount of time. So, your engine will become hotter. Power is J per second. If you look at some new model of car engine, will found that the heat sink fin area in continuing increasing. Some Nove Rossi engine almost use up all area of the crank case.
Lubricant do not give power but protect the engine.
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What nitromethane matter the engine power:
Nitromethane
4CH3NO2(l) + 3O2(g) → 4CO2(g) + 6H2O(g) + 2N2(g) Methyl Alcohol
2CH3OH(l) + 3O2(g) → 2CO2(g) + 4H2O(g) Both equations use 3O2, 4 molecule of nitromethane were used. But 2 molecule of methyl alcohol were used. Burning of nitromethane produce double volume of gas to burning methyl alcohol. (measured at same temperature and pressure. But before the gas escape the combustion chamber, burning nitromethane likely produce higher temperature and higher pressure. That is why higher power.)
Pressure * Volume/Temperature is a physical constant. If volume is fixed(that is the engine displacement), pressure and temperature must increased. Double volume of gas confined in the combustion chamber, exert larger force on the piston.
Energy released from burning fuel, partly converted to mechanical energy, partly converted to heat energy. If the fuel input increased, the output energy increase too, both mechanical and heat.
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