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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Land Models / December 2005need help with RB concepts engine
I purchased a TM323 for my revo...initially ran like a raped ape, changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't find any fuel obstructions,SEEMS to have adequate compression,using seperate glow ignitor with new rb plug, just doesn't want to fire. has plenty of fuel splattering out of the carb if I plug the exauste to prime things,have tried leaning out the main to about 2 turns open,in case I was flooding things. Just won't fire.Does anybody know of a hobby shop who could bench test the engine (so I don't have to ship the whole truck) and/or recondition the engine? So for ,RB isn't scoring real high on my list.Should've stuck with Associated stuff. >I purchased a TM323 for my >revo...initially ran like a raped ape, > changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't >find any fuel [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tried leaning out the main to about 2 >turns open,in case I was flooding > things. Just won't fire ... Did you try some other fuel? If it quit running when you changed fuel, perhaps the new fuel is at fault. How about the "two turns open" to lean things out. Shouldn't that be "two turns closed"? Tom B >I purchased a TM323 for my revo...initially ran like a raped ape, > changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't find any fuel [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > recondition the engine? So for ,RB isn't scoring real high on my > list.Should've stuck with Associated stuff. Treetoad, Assuming you've verified that the new glow plug is lighting up (I've seen new ones not work before), there are only a few things things that could cause this. A few questions: 1. How much fuel was run thru the engine before it quit? 2. What type of fuel worked? 3. What type of fuel does not work? 4. Was the temperature monitored while the engine was still working? 5. Have you popped the head off to check for a mangled piston/sleeve? I'm not a "hobby shop" per se, but am the local nitro wrench and tuner around here. I'd be more than happy to take a look at it if you wanted to mail it to me. Turnaround will be slow as I'm out of town the next two weekends, but I could get on it right after Thanksgiving. Before I went any further, I'd follow the advice of the other fella who responded and switch back to your old type of fuel and see if she lights up with that. I'd also try to persist with RB in reconditioning your motor for you. Doc >I purchased a TM323 for my revo...initially ran like a raped ape, > changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't find any fuel [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > recondition the engine? So for ,RB isn't scoring real high on my > list.Should've stuck with Associated stuff. When you say, turned it open, do you mean turned it out? Because then it will be flooding... Screw needs turning in to lean it. Reset it to factory, and try again, they try going in in 1/4 turn increments. After checking the plug is firing etc...  SignatureDan >>I purchased a TM323 for my revo...initially ran like a raped ape, >> changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't find any fuel [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > factory, and try again, they try going in in 1/4 turn increments. After > checking the plug is firing etc... I interpreted it as 2 turns out from all the way in, which is about right for most engines. Glow plugs "fire"? <g> Doc >>>I purchased a TM323 for my revo...initially ran like a raped ape, >>> changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't find any fuel [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I interpreted it as 2 turns out from all the way in, which is about right > for most engines. I took it as 2 turns from where it was when it arrived - i could be wrong of course :) > Glow plugs "fire"? <g> Fire, lights, you know what i mean ;-) > Doc SignatureDan >>>>I purchased a TM323 for my revo...initially ran like a raped ape, >>>> changed fuel, and hasn't run since. can't find any fuel [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >> Doc Hell, we're probably both wrong! Doc Na...you're both on track.What I should have said was,I set the carb 2 turns out from closed.Initially we broke the engine in with Byrons 20% race fuel. we always had good luck with this fuel,put a ton of laps in with the rc10. the engines were nice and clean inside even after 5 or 6 gallons of fuel. I did away with the onboard connection to the glow plug, opting for a seperate glow igniter. got a good battery in the easy start,the glow plug is getting nice and bright/hot, and from all appearances,has adequate compression, although nobody has been able to give me a definitive test for compression. (even the guy from RB, who by the way is like a freakin' scientist) I've had every screw, bolt pin etc out of this engine,tore the carb down to nothin' every port etc is open, the bore is shiny,etc. I've had a few people tell me to make sure the one way is super clean and lubed but I don't know why this would keep the engine from firing.I'm at a point where I need some divine intervention.If I knew some one who was really familiar with these things, I'd take the engine off the truck and mail it to them, and let them figure it out. I KNOW these are good engines, but this one has me baffled. > Na...you're both on track.What I should have said was,I set the carb 2 > turns out from closed.Initially we broke the engine in with Byrons 20% [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > them figure it out. I KNOW these are good engines, but this one has me > baffled. Have you tried switching back to the Byrons fuel? You said this problem started when you switched fuels? Are you sure the sleeve is installed the right way? Doc Yeah I went back to byrons,tried traxxas top fuel,tried to lean out things, tried going back to original factory settings just to get it started,but ut still won't fire. When you ask about sleeve being installed the right way, I'm pretty sure RB dummy proofed it with an indexing pin.How much do you know about compression testing ? If it was a small block chevy or harley or lawn mower, I'd be a heck of a lot more familiar with doing a compression test, but how do you know when the compression you've got is enough? > Yeah I went back to byrons,tried traxxas >top fuel,tried to lean out > ....... Did you try a new glow plug? New like unused! I have had brand new-looking plugs where the element has become contaminated and has lost its catalytic properties. Such plugs glow brightly and appear to be fully functional; they just don't work. Tom B > Yeah I went back to byrons,tried traxxas top fuel,tried to lean out > things, tried going back to original factory settings just to get it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > more familiar with doing a compression test, but how do you know when > the compression you've got is enough? The specs vary from engine to engine, but anything over 30psi should light right off. I've seen engines with virtually no compression light off as well. They crap out pretty quick but will still light off relatively easily. They make special compression testers for our little motors; they run around $40. I tried to retrofit my automotive compression tester for my nitros to no avail.......... Generally speaking, if you're getting a good "popping" noise as the engine turns over using an electric starter you've got enough compression to support a burn. My method for lighting off a crapped out engine.................. 1. Remove engine, pipe and fuel tank from vehicle and vice-mount. 2. With LSN flush and HSN all the way IN (yes, in!), start turning motor using either handheld electric starter or an electric drill directly on the one-way. Make sure carb is closed! 3. Slowly back off the HSN until it starts popping and farting and eventually starts. Starting with HSN all the way IN prevents flooding as you're trying to get the needles to the point they will allow the engine to start. I also use a bit of Marvel Mystery oil when doing this to make sure the engine is properly lubed when it's spinning with little to no fuel flow. Doc do you strat it without the pipe? i always heard that you could damage a 2 stroke from cold ait rushing back into a hot engine( On chain saws and weedwackers anyhow). I'll have to give the vice mount a shot.Thanks > do you strat it without the pipe? i always heard that you could damage > a 2 stroke from cold ait rushing back into a hot engine( On chain saws > and weedwackers anyhow). I'll have to give the vice mount a shot.Thanks The pipe MUST be attached!! It probably won't even start without at least the header attached, and relies on the pipes' backpressure to keep the engine working correctly. Without any backpressure 2-strokes have the tendency to blow the intake charge right thru the cylinder and out the exhaust ports! Also, if you have a handheld, variable-speed electric drill and the right size socket to fit directly on the one-way bearing, your handheld starter will thank you if you remove it and turn the motor using the drill and the one-way. While the backplate is off, check the one-way bearing to make sure it's still good. This might sound ridiculous but I've seen several motors that wouldn't start because the one-way was shot and locked to the starting shaft. Doc |
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