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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Land Models / December 2005poor winter performance
I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the snow. It was about 25F that day. I figure that the snow was cooling the engine too much. It ran as if I just started it up and drove without a warm up. I adjusted the needle a bit more rich for the cold air as well. What would you guys do to equip a nitro truck for snow use? I would like to hit some really deep stuff this winter. The electronics are in a box, so that is good. Thanks. >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > use? I would like to hit some really deep stuff this winter. The > electronics are in a box, so that is good. Thanks. Putting a sock over the head will allow it to heat up better and keep the snow from making direct contact with the cooling fins. If that doesn't work, pick up a cheap stock head on e-bay and trim a few fins off with a hacksaw or sawzall, then put the sock on the shorter head. Doc >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Doc Or just be brutal and lean it out a bit more ;-) All that lovely cold, dense air, and a lean motor - it'll be seriously fast :D  SignatureDan >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > use? I would like to hit some really deep stuff this winter. The > electronics are in a box, so that is good. Thanks. The proper answer would be to look at your Glow-Plug...you may be still running on a cool or medium plug which is fine for summer use or slightly cooler weather, you may need to change to a Hot grade plug especially with running in snow...that air closer down to the ground will be cooler than you think especially coming off the snow. Ask your Hobby shop for a Hot Grade plug and try one...you should get an improvement on performance (Winter Grade Spark Plugs do exist for Real cars so why should your model be any different...???) Regards........Mark (BlueWaveStudios) www.scale-models.co.uk (Moderator) >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (BlueWaveStudios) > www.scale-models.co.uk (Moderator) Curious................seeing as how glow plug temperature affects ignition timing and nothing else, how is a hotter plug going to help his truck run better without addressing the root cause, which is an engine head that is too cold due to direct exposure to snow? The snow is still gunna hit the head, still super cool it, and it's still going to run like bunk when he hits huge snow drifts as the head temp is going to plummet. Doc >>>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >>> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Doc MMM you have obviously never tried Hotplugs then have you, they run much warmer than standard plugs so keep the heat up in the head where it is required. We get cold temperatures here a lot in the UK probably more so than warm temps which are very rare...so yes I have used Hot Plugs on My nephews Subaru Impreza which does both on and off road and it runs fine....If anything I would recommend Enya Plugs as they seem to last the longest and are very reliable. I would certainly recommend trying the plugs first before hacking the fins off the cylinder heads like the previous posts....here in the UK, a plug is under £5 so why not give it a go first. Trust me, I have been using I/C engines now since 1976, long before all these fancy options were available and they still work fine for me now. Even my Heli's (all 3 of them) get hotplugs when I fly in Winter temps and they haven't let me down yet....only my fingers do that when it gets too cold !!! Regards........Mark (BlueWaveStudios) www.scale-models.co.uk (Moderator) > MMM you have obviously never tried Hotplugs then have you, they run much > warmer than standard plugs so keep the heat up in the head where it is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > they haven't let me down yet....only my fingers do that when it gets too > cold !!! Personally, I use the same plug all year round (O.S. A3) and i've never had a problem. I'm not even convinced that the snow supercooling it would be much of a problem either really - last time I ran in snow I just re-tuned slightly and it was fine. SignatureDan > >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Doc Re the glow plug and ignition timing, is this due to the speed of the flame as its ignited? ie a cooler plug potentially takes longer to ignite than a hotter one? Cheers Dre >> >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >> >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Cheers Dre It is, but again it is all temperature related, a cooler plug works well in summer as it doesn't overheat due to the ambient air temperature...even when running with Nitro Fuel...you try a Hot Plug in summer with Nitro Fuel and your engine will be the first to tell you about it and complain by Overheating and possibly seizing up. In Winter though where the ambient air temp is much cooler you need to up the heat source and that is done by using a hotter grade plug to counteract the cooler air temps.....it is still the same engine and will lose heat very quickly through those big head fins unless you can up the temp inside the head...hence use Hot Plugs. (Don't forget the fuel in your tank will also be extremely cold so the plug has to heat that too !!!!) I think after 29 years experience with I/C Engines, I am pretty much qualified to know what does and doesn't work.....give it a go. My Nephews cars are running fine on hot plugs, first time starts and we are on freezing temps here now with snow too !!! Regards.....Mark > >> >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > >> >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Regards.....Mark Ok, thanks for the info. I've also been told that nitro content plays a part when selecting a glow plug. How does this modify the equation? Um, and also to ask a stupid question, whats an I/C engine? (ie what does IC stand for?) Cheers Dre > I've also been told that nitro content plays a part when selecting a glow > plug. How does this modify the equation? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Cheers Dre Yes Nitro Content does play a part in selecting glow plugs but generally in keeping with what I have said above, ie use cooler plugs in Summer and Hotter Plugs in winter...don't forget as stated above, that fuel in your tank will be colder in winter so your plug has to heat that up too...!!! I/C by the way is Internal Combustion as in all Steam / Petrol / Glow / Diesel / Jet engines......anything that burns fuel to make them work !!!! Mark. > > I've also been told that nitro content plays a part when selecting a glow > > plug. How does this modify the equation? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Mark. Nice, I knew I/C stood for something totally obvious! I've been told in the past however (from experts in the field) that nitro content plays a *big* part in selecting the glow plug... I'm a bit dubious about doing this as changing the plug will change the combustion and would require a re-tune to suit. I do however agree with the idea of covering *some* of the upper fins (ie wrapping the head to reduce air flow) as this will increase the head temp, but keep the combustion in tune. Also to add in the colder weather, the air is more dense so to get around this, you can richen your main mixture screw a tad to compensate. Thoughts? Cheers Dre >> > I've also been told that nitro content plays a part when selecting a > glow [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Cheers Dre My thoughts, for what they're worth..............................(and yes Mark, I have used hot plugs in the past; they belong in smallblocks and low-nitro applications IMO). I use them during break in on big blocks but pop medium cold or medium plugs in after break in. Covering the head with a sock or removing a few fins works better because: 1) It's free (the sock) 2) It prevents supercooling by preventing contact of the fins with snow, thereby providing a more balanced performance than a hot plug, which will still bog when you bury it in a snow drift 3) No real need to retune other than for air temp and humidity 4) Ignition timing remains the same (no preignition) and potential head/piston damage is thwarted 5) It looks goofy as hell! 6) The amount of heat saved using a sock or trimming a few fins far outweighs the amount a dinky hot plug produces as compared to a medium-cold plug. And also, FWIW, steam engines are NOT I/C engines. I/C designates ignition of the fuel within a cylinder or other confined space (hence the term "internal") which thereby DIRECTLY provides power to the piston/crank. With steam engines, the combustion is quite non-internal to the mechanical workings of the engine. Sure, the stoves are sealed up pretty tight to raise temps and heat the water better, but the combustion of the wood is completely independent from the piston and crank movement. Now, if we were exploding wood or coal inside the actual cylinder that would be a different story <g>. WRT nitro content, the higher the nitro the cooler the plug. Nitro reacts with the platinum/iridium coil in the plug and acts as a catalyst for combustion via an exothermic reaction. The more nitro in the fuel the more heat is produced via this reaction therefore less heat is needed from the plug itself. Nitro is also non-compressible which ups the compression ratio which in turn also increases cylinder temps. Too much heat causes preignition, or the fuel mixture lighting off while the piston is still travelling UP on the compression stroke which causes a telltale "knock" or "ping." Not enough heat causes retarted ignition where the mixture lights off while the piston is travelling DOWN on the power stroke and causes boggy performance. I have no doubt you have lots of experience with I/C engines Mark, but your understandings of their internal workings is inherently flawed. Perhaps moving from a medium cold plug in the summer to a medium or medium hot might be beneficial, but running a hot plug is overkill IMO. While it feels like a huge temp difference to us, the difference between snow and sweat is only 50*. Doc Inline.. > My thoughts, for what they're worth..............................(and yes > Mark, I have used hot plugs in the past; they belong in smallblocks and > low-nitro applications IMO). Yes! this is exactly what I have been told and have read all along. Hot plugs for low nitro apps. > I use them during break in on big blocks but > pop medium cold or medium plugs in after break in. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > outweighs the amount a dinky hot plug produces as compared to a medium-cold > plug. Yep again, all follow my findings. > And also, FWIW, steam engines are NOT I/C engines. I/C designates ignition > of the fuel within a cylinder or other confined space (hence the term [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > off while the piston is travelling DOWN on the power stroke and causes boggy > performance. Spot on, all of that is follows exactly what I have allways read and have been told. Cheers Dre > Inline.. > > Spot on, all of that is follows exactly what I have allways read and have > been told. To be fair, I've read all that too, and been told it before - but real world experience tells me changing the plugs makes little difference, and running in snow just requires a small re-tune :) I understand all the theory, I'm just not sure it's strictly necessary! SignatureDan > >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Doc I would be interested to no what the head temperature (at the glow plug) was like while running in the snow. This is always the best indication as to how or why your truck is running like it is. I have heard people say that blocking some of the fins on the head head will help get the temp up to a decent running temperature when running in winter. I may be wrong but I thought the general rule is to keep the temp about 170*F above ambient temperature. Cheers Richard > I may be wrong but I thought the general rule is to keep the temp about > 170*F above ambient temperature. > > Cheers > Richard I have never gotten into measuring head temps but have just followed the good old general advice from people in the know and my own experience at trying out the plugs to get where I am now. I can vouch on the knowledge I have picked up over the years having tried it for myself, I have never fried a head yet but have enjoyed many winter hours driving with 2 nitro cars which start up first time perfectly on a very cold day on hot plugs and will happily run till the batteries die or until I have had enough and my fingers get too cold. The main point is the cars run perfect and they do so everytime. As mentioned earlier here on this thread, I fly my Heli's using Hotplugs in winter now too, A bit more expensive to smash if I didn't have faith in them. Come summer they will ALL be back on cool plugs which is what they were running on then. For the price of a plug, give it a go at least. you will get to ENJOY your winter driving !!! Mark. >> I may be wrong but I thought the general rule is to keep the temp about >> 170*F above ambient temperature. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > good old general advice from people in the know and my own experience at > trying out the plugs to get where I am now. Yup - never measured a head temp in my life :-) I tune on the day if the engine doesn't sound or 'feel' right. > I can vouch on the knowledge I have picked up over the years having tried > it for myself, I have never fried a head yet but have enjoyed many winter > hours driving with 2 nitro cars which start up first time perfectly on a > very cold day on hot plugs and will happily run till the batteries die or > until I have had enough and my fingers get too cold. The main point is the > cars run perfect and they do so everytime. The theory is so real substitute for the experience is it. > As mentioned earlier here on this thread, I fly my Heli's using Hotplugs > in winter now too, A bit more expensive to smash if I didn't have faith in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > For the price of a plug, give it a go at least. you will get to ENJOY your > winter driving !!! That's a fair point, a plug is only like, £3gbp. Personally, i'll just be sticking with my A3s all winter through again :) SignatureDan >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > use? I would like to hit some really deep stuff this winter. The > electronics are in a box, so that is good. Thanks. Wrapping the head and adjusting the fuel mix is totally un-necessary if you use the right grade plugs, as a good example...do you do this to your normal car parked outside every winter ...??? The big answer is NO but there are hotgrade spark plugs available for your car for winter use that does away with all that rubbish, why..??? because they burn hotter to make your car perform better in the cold months so no need to wrap your engine in all that fancy crap so why do it with your glow-engine...??? Hot Grade Glow Plugs do exactly the same job !!! No I don't sell them...!!!! ......But I have used them for a while now to know how well they work...Hopefully I can stop banging my head on a brick wall now !!! Mark. > >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Mark. Um, but 1:1 cars are 4 stroke water cooled heads/blocks. Our RC's use 2 stroke *air* cooled heads/blocks. I really dont think you can compare spark plugs with glow plugs like this. Have a read of the engine tuning faqs on RC universe. You yourself say that you dont tune with a temp gun and never have. Nitro engines today are totally different in construction and metallurgy than in the past and have to be run in and tuned in a different way to in the past. Please follow your own advise and try out a temp gun, they are so cheap now you might find you can get better performance with it. For the record, I dont at all agree with your post above. Stating that wrapping the head and tweaking your fuel mix is unneccesary is plain incorrect, please have a look for other sources on trusted webpages on the internet and you will see what I am talking about. Cheers Dre >> Wrapping the head and adjusting the fuel mix is totally un-necessary if > you [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Cheers Dre BINGO. You hit the nail on the head Dre. First, I've never seen nor used a "Winter Spark Plug" and have been wrenching 1:1 vehix longer than 1:8 vehix. Second, heat in a 4 stroke comes from the burn, NOT the spark plug which is simply there to light it off. 4 strokes do not require heat to run, just a spark. Third, and this is the clincher, we DO wrap the "heads" of 4 strokes (gas/diesel) and 2 strokes (diesel) in the winter via blocking airflow to the radiators using grill covers. I think ol' Mark needs to look at the grill of the next big rig he sees on the road. I also think he needs to reasses everything he "thinks" he knows about I/C engines as from what I can see, he doesn't know a damn thing. Doc > >> Wrapping the head and adjusting the fuel mix is totally un-necessary if > > you [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Doc :) I know and have seen the different heat range plugs for 1:1 cars, but have never actually used them, cause I live in Australia, no need :) (I have had the same type of plug in my ute which has run perfectly well in 45+ deg C days and also in sub 0deg C days. Each time, started first go and ran fine.) I ran the Savage on the w/e too btw, in front of about 7 really pissed blokes, they all loved it (judging by the laughs and shouts :) I put on a nice show I reckon, did plenty of forwards wheelies, reverse wheelies, jumps, rolls, crashes etc, was quite entertaining! Gearbox is still not right, when I tightened 2nd down last time, I tightened it too much :) back to 45/90deg adjustments again! Cheers Dre > I know and have seen the different heat range plugs for 1:1 cars, but have > never actually used them, cause I live in Australia, no need :) (I have [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tightened > it too much :) back to 45/90deg adjustments again! Yea I still need to fettle my gearbox as well - I hate that job :-) SignatureDan >> I know and have seen the different heat range plugs for 1:1 cars, but >> have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Yea I still need to fettle my gearbox as well - I hate that job :-) P.s. Doc, I missed you on MSN - I was asleep, sorry! SignatureDan >>> Wrapping the head and adjusting the fuel mix is totally un-necessary if >> you [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > also think he needs to reasses everything he "thinks" he knows about I/C > engines as from what I can see, he doesn't know a damn thing. Also, I'd bet Pounds to Lira that if you changed the plug to a much hotter one, you'd have to adjust the fuel mix anyway. I never use a sock myself, but I think you get harsher temps than us over here anyway - the coldest we're likely to get is about -5c, and thats rare. SignatureDan >>>> Wrapping the head and adjusting the fuel mix is totally un-necessary if >>> you [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> road. I also think he needs to reasses everything he "thinks" he knows >> about I/C engines as from what I can see, he doesn't know a damn thing. Snip...I did not mention about wrapping any heads in smelly socks or whatever I was against that idea myself, scroll back up the posts, I only suggested using warmer plugs which do work for some compared to others, depending on where you are in the states I am probably a bit further north towards the artic circle in the UKand close to the 2nd Highest Mountain in the UK, so yes the warmer plugs work fine for me, If you have plugs that work fine for you then stick to them...!!! Mark. >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ......But I have used them for a while now to know how well they > work...Hopefully I can stop banging my head on a brick wall now !!! But if you change the plug, you're almost certainly gonna have to adjust the fuel mix anyway - plus, its not like its really a big job is it... SignatureDan >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > use? I would like to hit some really deep stuff this winter. The > electronics are in a box, so that is good. Thanks. Ok fine smart arses, yes I mentioned that there are winter spark plugs for full size cars but I did not say everyone uses them, even I don' t on my own BMW but given as glow cars are more sensitive on temps then I can't see why you still knock trying a hotter plug in winter temps. After all is that not why the original poster came here, looking for advice...?? suggest some of you try the hotter plugs yourselves before knocking me with the all the fancy crap and then tell me what you think then. Some of the fancy crap is on the market to make profits out of mugs like you, the rest does the real job if you can understand it...you can fry your engines with fancy wrappings all you like, ...more money for the engine manufacturers...run the engines properly as per advice given with right plugs etc and then you will enjoy the same engines for years and good model performance too. Engines will last years if you look after them !!! I have several engines aged 20 years plus now and they still work fine...why...?? because I know how to run then and what plugs to use where necessary !!! Like I said, I have 29 years experience in I/C engines...most of it probably before you were in nappies so if that ain't good enough sod off. My models run fine and so does my 16 yr old nephews now, he knows how to tweak and run his engines perfectly, thanks to me. Same as always, people looking for advice but too many doubters who think they know better never having tried it for themselves. I hate those sort of people...If you think you know better, DON'T ASK !!!! At least I have the benefit of actual experience in what I am talking about rather than the no good nanny state what if's of inexperienced modellers coz those sort of people in my local clubs will get told to get lost up their own a.ses in next to no time and barred too !!! Mark. > >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch > > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Mark. Dude, take a chill pill, no-one has raised their voice (literally) until just then when you did. Likewise, no one has called anyone names untill you did just then, can we please keep it civil and freindly? I really think this is a great newsgroup with some great people in it. Its hard for a group of people to accept information that is totally against the grain of what that group has experienced in the past and that is why I for one discussed it with you. You have experience with older engines and thats fine. Newer engines however are constructed differently and I wish you would please follow my advise and at least read some other experiences (from trusted sources). We have allready tried different plug heat types. I mentioned the 1:1 car plugs and mentioned that I had never tried them, how does that even make any difference to you??? Also our fancy wraps are called "socks", you know, like the ones you wear on your feet? I buy mine at the K-mart for 5 bucks a pack of 10. Peace. Cheers Dre >> >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >> > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Cheers Dre Yes I have tried winter grade plugs on my own car but that was a Manta GTE years ago, I am on my 2nd BMW now with no problems starting in winter but I will stick by what I have said for the model engines, My nephews newest car ( The 2 Fast 2 Furious Nissan Skyline) has a brand new engine in it (GX-12), tried it on cooler plugs first for running it in (brand new engine) but didn't do so well so upped plugs, afer running in, to hotter grade as it is November now...car now runs like stink on 16 % nitro and 4 wheel drive...even the Old scooby my nephew has is running around happily on hot plugs on .10 engine on 10% fuel it does doughnuts brilliantly and it is only rear wheel drive !!!!.......mmm will have to try it on some 16% fuel lol Mark. >>> >I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >>> > of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > Mark. P.s...... Yes it is my experience with the older engines that keep them and the newer ones running sweetly too, they haven't changed that much over the years even with with Ducted Fan Engines, only the Jet Engines have changed and yes I have Jet turbines now too but I won't start here on this group....My F-15 is a real TopGun Machine !!!!! Mark. > P.s...... Yes it is my experience with the older engines that keep them > and the newer ones running sweetly too, they haven't changed that much [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mark. See, isn't it much nicer when everyone just relaxes :D By the way, in case anyone hadn't picked it up from the Pipes thread, the OP runs a .28 (http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=23755) MGT. Personally, no experience of this exact engine, but i've had a hand in several TTR Pro 21s, and have had a couple of .28s myself. God that SH was powerful - made the K4.6 i have now look slow... Ahhhh what a solid motor the Pro 21 is. <trips off down memory lane> Might just have to get me one of those new OS .30s. I've gone off on a tangent here havn't I :) SignatureDan wow, quite a thread. Thanks for all of the banter. Ill give the sock theory a shot since Im an hour away from a hobby shop. If that doesnt do it, Ill get a hotter plug. What one should I try? Ive got a McCoy MC-59 in it now. Oh, again it is a monster gt with the 4.6 TT engine. Say, is it possible that the sock would ice up and and then cause the motor to overheat? Thanks again > wow, quite a thread. Thanks for all of the banter. Ill give the sock > theory a shot since Im an hour away from a hobby shop. If that doesnt > do it, Ill get a hotter plug. What one should I try? Ive got a McCoy > MC-59 in it now. Oh, again it is a monster gt with the 4.6 TT engine. > Say, is it possible that the sock would ice up and and then cause the > motor to overheat? Thanks again I should imagine, the sock will be hot enough to melt any snow quick enough for it not to be an issue. I've also seen it done with tin foil by the way - should stop any snow touching the head at all really. SignatureDan The hotter plug would be an MC-9... BTW...A hot plug will not last as long as a medium temp plug..(why I stopped running them/had to change them too often) > wow, quite a thread. Thanks for all of the banter. Ill give the sock > theory a shot since Im an hour away from a hobby shop. If that doesnt > do it, Ill get a hotter plug. What one should I try? Ive got a McCoy > MC-59 in it now. Oh, again it is a monster gt with the 4.6 TT engine. > Say, is it possible that the sock would ice up and and then cause the > motor to overheat? Thanks again Actually, you should be fine with the MC-59... The MC-9 is a racing plug and should be used with 25% + nitro... Depending where you read on/about the plugs they may be listed as hot or cold... (e.g. The MC-9 is listed as a "cold" plug, however, it is the "hot" racing plug for higher nitro content..) > The hotter plug would be an MC-9... > BTW...A hot plug will not last as long as a medium temp plug..(why I stopped [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Say, is it possible that the sock would ice up and and then cause the > > motor to overheat? Thanks again http://www.excelsiorweb.com/rcair/glowplug.asp Haven't tried them but an MC-8 is supposed to be "longlife" with somekind of platinum core.... Sorry if I am making anybody else, along with myself, more confused.... LOL > Actually, you should be fine with the MC-59... > The MC-9 is a racing plug and should be used with 25% + nitro... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > Say, is it possible that the sock would ice up and and then cause the > > > motor to overheat? Thanks again > Yes I have tried winter grade plugs on my own car but that was a Manta GTE > years ago, I am on my 2nd BMW now with no problems starting in winter but [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mark. You just made my point for me. A dinky .12 will run like poop with anything less than a hot plug. Hot plugs are designed for smallblocks and low nitro applications (like your 10% and 16%). Take a .25 or .28 running on 20% or 30% and we're talking a whole different ball of wax. Doc I drove the truck with a sock on the head of the motor until it stalled. The temp gage read 320 degrees F. Not good. Im using a modified meat thermometer. I pulled the sock and richened it even more and it ran OK unless it was throwing snow on the motor. Then I lost front wheel drive. The little front universal joint ball cup screw came out. Bummer! And today it is snowing heavily and I want to drive. Im thinking of getting a CVEC pipe that is sold for the savage .28. Will this help idling? And is it a good fit for the MGT? "Doc" wrote: > > Yes I have tried winter grade plugs on my own car but that was a Manta GTE > > years ago, I am on my 2nd BMW now with no problems starting in winter but [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Doc >I drove the truck with a sock on the head of the motor until it > stalled. The temp gage read 320 degrees F. Not good. Im using a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > drive. Im thinking of getting a CVEC pipe that is sold for the savage > .28. Will this help idling? And is it a good fit for the MGT? Sounds like it needed to be retuned anyways if you had to richen the HSN after removing the sock. Perhaps it was running so cold before that it was covering up the fact that it needed a retune. I'd try it again (leave the top of the sock open) with the retune and see how she does. If it's still too hot, try trimming the sock down to expose a few fins. It will require some trial and error but you will get it right eventually. My Sportwerks .26 (same engine as Mach .26 in your MGT with a different carb) runs 280-300* on a hot day so 320* isn't all that bad. I find it runs best between 260*-290*. The question is, how did it run before it stalled out? Doc ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > "Doc" wrote: >> > Yes I have tried winter grade plugs on my own car but that was a Manta [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >> Doc I don't think a pipe will help your idle that much..( If your motor is sealed at all the connections now with a good factory pipe, it is probably a tuning/other non pipe related problem more than likely) IIRC.. The CVEC is for .21-.28 engines I believe, so it should be no problem...just be sure to get the long 3 piece pipe (Savage style) and NOT the short 2 piece style (like for a T-Maxx).. Blue Lock-Tite all your grub screws! Keep in mind, that any resistance to your truck ...snow, grass, mud, whatever it may be, will cause your truck to run at a higher temp... You also may want to try a different fuel to see what effects on performance/tuning it may have... > I drove the truck with a sock on the head of the motor until it > stalled. The temp gage read 320 degrees F. Not good. Im using a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > drive. Im thinking of getting a CVEC pipe that is sold for the savage > .28. Will this help idling? And is it a good fit for the MGT? I will try to explain how it was running the other day. Starting it was easy considering how cold it was. It seemed that if I wasnt really heavy with the throttle it would seem to load up a bit. It sounded like a chainsaw that has a miss. Then it would clear up and scream with the throttle nailed. If it flipped over, I would go tip it right side up and have to ease the throttle open slowly otherwise it would stall. It seems to me that there is a rather fine line between too rich, lean, cold, and hot. I noticed that there is considerable resistance at top dead center. It is very stiff at that point even with the plug removed. Im guessing that the cylinder is taperred and might not be fully broken in. Oh yeah, I think I bent a out drive shaft too. Oops. I noticed one wobbles a bit. > I will try to explain how it was running the other day. Starting it > was easy considering how cold it was. It seemed that if I wasnt really [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > might not be fully broken in. Oh yeah, I think I bent a out drive > shaft too. Oops. I noticed one wobbles a bit. I've been trying to follow this thread as best as possible with a news server that keeps crashing and just noticed a comment that you made about the engine "might not be fully broken in", so I have to ask: Is this a new truck or motor or both? Sorry if this seems like a silly question to all but I only ask because of what I have read. Cheers Richard >> I will try to explain how it was running the other day. Starting it >> was easy considering how cold it was. It seemed that if I wasnt really [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Is this a new truck or motor or both? Sorry if this seems like a silly > question to all but I only ask because of what I have read. Yea I just picked up on that as well? Did you get it from new? How much fuel has it had through it? Did you follow the breakin procedure? SignatureDan probably ten or fifteen tanks through it now. I got the truck new a few months ago. I ran a few tanks through it at a very rich setting at moderate throttle usage for break in. > probably ten or fifteen tanks through it now. I got the truck new a > few months ago. I ran a few tanks through it at a very rich setting at > moderate throttle usage for break in. Hmm, should be loosened up by now really. Seems like a low end tuning problem to me. Try leaning the low end a 1/4 turn in. If that doesn't help, put it back, and try richening it a 1/4 turn out. SignatureDan >>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > knocking me with the all the fancy crap and then tell me what you think > then. Calm down - nothing wrong with a little lively debate. FWIW, last time I changed plugs, was to a hotter one, and it made my truck run shitty, so i went back to good ol' A3s. > Some of the fancy crap is on the market to make profits out of mugs like > you, the rest does the real job if you can understand it...you can fry [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > good model performance too. Engines will last years if you look after them > !!! Nitro engines won't last years if used a lot, no matter how much you look after them, at least not without a new piston and liner, and possibly bearings. > I have several engines aged 20 years plus now and they still work > fine...why...?? because I know how to run then and what plugs to use where > necessary !!! Nitro engines? 20 years? Have they even been around that long? > Like I said, I have 29 years experience in I/C engines...most of it > probably before you were in nappies so if that ain't good enough sod off. > My models run fine and so does my 16 yr old nephews now, he knows how to > tweak and run his engines perfectly, thanks to me. 29 years is actually 7 years longer than i've been alive... Point stands tho - are we still talking Nitro engines? > Same as always, people looking for advice but too many doubters who think > they know better never having tried it for themselves. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > modellers coz those sort of people in my local clubs will get told to get > lost up their own a.ses in next to no time and barred too !!! I freely admit I have less experience than you - but that doesn't necessarily make you right. I'm not even sure we're all talking about the same type of engines now... Basically to claim a 20 year old Nitro engine is madness. SignatureDan >>>I ran my monster gt recently through grass and gravel that had an inch >>> of snow cover. I noticed that it seemed rough when going through the [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > same type of engines now... Basically to claim a 20 year old Nitro engine > is madness. Hi Dan, Yes. I started with my first I/C Engines in 1976, Nitro Fuel was around 20 years ago but not quite in the same percentages as we know now, as the engines were not that well developed then but they still used Nitro Fuel to improve the performance. (Funnily enough the first proper model jet engine was developed by us Brits and succesfully flown in 1982 !!! It was only the French that got there first with mass production) I had my old Mardave Ford Capri ZakSpeed Turbo running on a Veco .19 engine with Nitro Fuel in 1978 and my first planes a year or 2 later using an Enya .09. Like I said not quite the same performance as we have now but it was still Nitro fuel and made a difference over straight fuel...If you have ever tried straight fuel with no nitro added you know what I mean....So in a way these could count as the earliest Nitro Engines as there was a definite boost then on running on Nitro Fuels (Even on Diesels at the time...check out PAW Engines, they are still going and I still have 2 of them) Anyway.........If you have found plugs that work well for you then stick to them....otherwise experiment a bit and see what gives the best results....without having to resort to socks or foil wrapped around the heads. Regards.....Mark. > Anyway.........If you have found plugs that work well for you then stick > to them....otherwise experiment a bit and see what gives the best > results....without having to resort to socks or foil wrapped around the > heads. > > Regards.....Mark. Did a little googling, those early engines are quite interesting actually! Well as i say, i've never used a temp gun, or a sock, or foil - but in the UK we don't have the extremes of climate some of the other posters here have. The only times i've used a different type of plug, has just been, as you say, to experiment, and i've always found i've got worse performance with anything other than an A3 - so that's all I use these days :) I'm willing to accept tho, that if i was running in seriously cold conditions, which i have never really done, that i might need a different plug, or to even add a sock to the heatsink. Apparantly this is gonna be the worst winter for a while, so i guess we'll see soon! SignatureDan >> Anyway.........If you have found plugs that work well for you then stick >> to them....otherwise experiment a bit and see what gives the best [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > plug, or to even add a sock to the heatsink. Apparantly this is gonna be > the worst winter for a while, so i guess we'll see soon! Cheers Dan, Hope whatever happens you still enjoy your winter driving. Enjoy the reading on the early engines too, I had a lot of fun with them, still got a few of them too and they all work Fine. Yes, I do have more up to date engines now too but it seems a waste to bin the old engines if they work Ok. Regards........Mark. |
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