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Model Forum / General / Models / August 2005Cheap Mans' Spray Booth
Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with furnace filters,should work o.k. >Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with >furnace filters,should work o.k. or you could get an old monitor, throw out the guts, hook a dryer hose up to a hivol squirrel cage fan and vent it outside with a filter before the fan. cut a hole in the back and sillycone the hose and you have a $20 paint cabinet. > Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's > ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with > furnace filters,should work o.k. I did that, and wrote an article for Ships in Scale, and it appeared in the Jan/Feb 2004 issue. Some hobby shops sell quite old back issues, so it may still be in some shops, but you may have to write the publisher (they do sell back issues). I used a muffin fan, furnace filter, and the deluxe feature for the first time in any of my homemade spray booths, a light in the top. >Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with >furnace filters,should work o.k. I don't recommend that approach. Try to find a discarded stove hood (if that's the correct English name), set it on its end so the filter area is vertical, attach a dryer hose which goes out of the window, and voila. A stove hood has the required capacity (cfm) for a modeler's spraybooth, a computer fan definitely hasn't. The hood's fan motor possibly sparks, so there is a theoretical explosion risk, but I never ever heard of that occuring, and in my 15 year use of mine I never suffered an explosion either. Rob My models: www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models.htm Me 163B site: www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163.htm AQM-34 site: www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/aqm34.htm > Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's > ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with > furnace filters,should work o.k. Yup, it does. Mine looks like that: <http://www.xmsnet.nl/hdejong/model/paintbooth.jpg> It uses a bathroom fan (with a furnace filter in front of it), and a low-voltage fluorescent tube for lighting. All in all maybe $30 in materials. There is a risk of sparks from the fan motor igniting the fumes, but the amount of vapor is such a small fraction of the total airflow that I don't consider this a great risk. As an experiment, I just tried to ignite paint thinner fumes with my piezoelectric lighter (don't try this at home, kids). I got a small glass jar with some thinner, screwed the top off (fumes were strong enough to peel my nose lining), and stuck the lighter into the jar, with the spark plug about 1 cm above the surface of the liquid. This should be a worst-case scenario (very high concentration of vapor). In about 10 seconds of making sparks, the vapor did *not* ignite.  SignatureHarro de Jong remove the extra Xs from xmsnet to mail me >>Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >>ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > This should be a worst-case scenario (very high concentration of vapor). > In about 10 seconds of making sparks, the vapor did *not* ignite. Not really. Your mixture may not have ignited because it was too rich. I'll bet that if you got the right mix of air into it it may have torched off. My idea is to make a downdraft set up with a cardboard wardrobe box, a furnace filter, and suitable lighting. But I have yet to find a fan motor that I'll trust... Signature- Rufus > Not really. Your mixture may not have ignited because it was too rich. > I'll bet that if you got the right mix of air into it it may have > torched off. I'll do some more checking. > But I have yet to find a fan > motor that I'll trust... I did look into safe fans, but the only ones I could find were insanely expensive ($100+, five times more than the fan I use now) SignatureHarro de Jong remove the extra Xs from xmsnet to mail me According to our maintenance dept who are currently working on a full size industrial spray booth for Painting applications. You should look for a squirrel cage fan with the motor outside the air path. The CFM rating should be 100 CFM for every square foot of the opening size. I built my Spray booth from a shipping crate 22X25X27 I put a furnace filter across the opening duct in the back and built a support for the fan in the back which then vents outside via a aluminum duct.This is a semi perminent installation as it weighs in about 100lbs.Also covered the inside with aluminum flashing riveted to the wood to make cleanup easier.I talked to them about a bathroom fan and they quickly told me that it only takes one spark under the right conditions and paint thinner/lacquer thinner will explode with the force of half a stick of dynamite. For my money I would be very cautious when it comes to building a paint booth. If it were to explode you homeowners insurance may not cover the damage because of flammables being used. Hope this helps >> Not really. Your mixture may not have ignited because it was too rich. >> I'll bet that if you got the right mix of air into it it may have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I did look into safe fans, but the only ones I could find were insanely > expensive ($100+, five times more than the fan I use now) Now this idea makes sense... Signature- Rufus > According to our maintenance dept who are currently working on a full size > industrial spray booth for Painting applications. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>I did look into safe fans, but the only ones I could find were insanely >>expensive ($100+, five times more than the fan I use now) >>Not really. Your mixture may not have ignited because it was too rich. >> I'll bet that if you got the right mix of air into it it may have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I did look into safe fans, but the only ones I could find were insanely > expensive ($100+, five times more than the fan I use now) I got my 125 cfm muffin fan for 19 bucks. >> Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >> ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > This should be a worst-case scenario (very high concentration of vapor). > In about 10 seconds of making sparks, the vapor did *not* ignite. Way to practice good scientific method. > Way to practice good scientific method. Do a better job, then. SignatureHarro de Jong remove the extra Xs from xmsnet to mail me Muffin fans (which I used in my homemade booth) are spark free. They are the most economical type too, in terms of CFM per buck. You need at LEAST 100 cfm. >>Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >>ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > This should be a worst-case scenario (very high concentration of vapor). > In about 10 seconds of making sparks, the vapor did *not* ignite. >>Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >>ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > This should be a worst-case scenario (very high concentration of vapor). > In about 10 seconds of making sparks, the vapor did *not* ignite. But what paint was it intended to thin? Acrylic thinners are alcohol+water - low flammability Enamel thinners are white spirit - low flammability Lacquer thinners are acetone, MEK or toluene - high flammability http://www.interfire.org/res_file/aec_20ig.asp That said, I doubt there is much chance of an explosion in a modellers spray booth, as the quantities of vapour present are simply too small. We are spraying small areas, and mostly in short bursts. Wow! a hidden cottage industry!,thanks for the pointers,didn't think i'd get a response like this.Yeah the fan /exhaust part was bugging me,if you spray in winter time,you might as well open a window.On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:31:11 +0100, Alan Dicey <alan@removethis.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote: >>>Well,can't get around it,testors sells 1 for $399.00,that's >>>ludicrus,i'll just have to get a big 'ol cardboard box & line it with [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >spray booth, as the quantities of vapour present are simply too small. >We are spraying small areas, and mostly in short bursts. > Wow! a hidden cottage industry!,thanks for the pointers,didn't think > i'd get a response like this.Yeah the fan /exhaust part was bugging > me,if you spray in winter time,you might as well open a window.On Wed, > 03 Aug 2005 19:31:11 +0100, Alan Dicey . What I did on my latest booth was to fit a flange over the muffin fan outlet, the flange used on house walls to fit dryer vent. I bought another, and mounted it to a strip of particle board about 8 inches high (after cutting hole, of course). I then stuck that board under a window sash and ran a piece of dryer hose from booth to window board. > But what paint was it intended to thin? Enamel: > Enamel thinners are white spirit - low flammability > That said, I doubt there is much chance of an explosion in a modellers > spray booth, as the quantities of vapour present are simply too small. > We are spraying small areas, and mostly in short bursts. My thought as well. I'll try and find some more information though (exactly what concentration constitutes a flammable or explosive mix)... SignatureHarro de Jong remove the extra Xs from xmsnet to mail me >>But what paint was it intended to thin? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > My thought as well. I'll try and find some more information though > (exactly what concentration constitutes a flammable or explosive mix)... One caveat to my assertion above: the modern Revell paints describe themselves as Enamel Paint on the tin, but *don't* thin with white spirit. Further research on my part finds that they are "synthetic enamels" - whatever that is. But although you can still clean your brushes with white spirit (mineral spirits in US English, I think) *don't* try to thin the paint with it - you'll end up with something that takes three weeks to dry/set/harden. You can guess how I found this out - - - Use Revell Thinners with Revell paint (but don't waste it on brush cleaning). No, I don't what Revell paint thinners consist of, either, Revell don't tell you on the bottle or on their website <grrr> >Use Revell Thinners with Revell paint (but don't waste it on brush >cleaning). No, I don't what Revell paint thinners consist of, either, >Revell don't tell you on the bottle or on their website <grrr> For what it's worth; I have a work safety leaflet for Revell products printed and distributed by the local (Finnish) agent of Revell in stores selling their products a couple of years ago. Date of the leaflet is 1999 and language is Finnish and Swedish. The document states that the "Revell Color mix Thinner" consists of 90-99% of "liuotinbensiini" and 1-10% of butanol (=butyl alcohol). "Liuotinbensiini", according to the Finnish Insitute of Occupational Health ( http://www.ttl.fi/internet/english ) data sheet is a common name for a variety of carbohydrate solvents consisting of C9-C12 carbohydrates. English language examples being " mineral spirit, white spirit, stoddard solvent" and " VM & P naphtha". The Revell enamel paints are reported to contain 12-70% of "liuotinbensiini", <2% of isobutanol and <3% of trimethylbenzene. Mikko >>> But what paint was it intended to thin? >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > cleaning). No, I don't what Revell paint thinners consist of, either, > Revell don't tell you on the bottle or on their website <grrr> Isn't the vehicle in Testors enamels toluene, or something like that? Not to mention that they are clearly labeled "CAUTION: Flammable. Read cautions on back.". Signature- Rufus >>>> But what paint was it intended to thin? >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Not to mention that they are clearly labeled "CAUTION: Flammable. Read > cautions on back.". Don't know about Testors - I'm in the UK where it is relatively hard to come by. Humbrol and Xtracolour are the enamels I use. Mineral spirits are flammable, just not very. However it is quite possible that Testors is different - I'm not a paint chemist. However, I do know one, and will see if he can help (though his work was largely with home decoration paints) Humbrol and Xtracolour *do not* have a "Caution: Flammable" warning on them, at least not in the UK. >>>>> But what paint was it intended to thin? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > with home decoration paints) Humbrol and Xtracolour *do not* have a > "Caution: Flammable" warning on them, at least not in the UK. Which makes me wonder if that's why they aren't readily available in the UK - I recall that there are some Tamiya spray paints that are no longer imported in to the US because of chemical content and/or volitility. I'm sure each country has it's own standards. Here in the US I use the Testors line almost exclusively. Though I can get and have used Xtracolor and Humbrol at times in the past. Like them for brush painting. Signature- Rufus . > Mineral spirits are flammable, just not very. However it is quite > possible that Testors is different - I'm not a paint chemist. . True. Real lacquer (and its associated thinner) is much more flammable. By real lacquer I mean the stuff thinned with acetone or similar solvents, not the acrylic lacquer which is water-based. > .. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > By real lacquer I mean the stuff thinned with acetone or similar > solvents, not the acrylic lacquer which is water-based. But Rufus wrote > Isn't the vehicle in Testors enamels toluene, or something like that? > Not to mention that they are clearly labeled "CAUTION: Flammable. > Read cautions on back.". implying that Testors *enamels* had toluene as their solvent. Though I would normally expect anything thinned with toluene to be a lacquer, I'm always ready to be educated... >> .. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > would normally expect anything thinned with toluene to be a lacquer, I'm > always ready to be educated... I seem to remember that something around my bench contains toluene so I threw that one out there, but now I can't recall just what...not my paints, after checking...maybe a glue... ...so, checking the back of the label - all the paints bottles say is "Contains petroleum distillates". But if you look at the airbrush thinner, it says "Flammable liquid and vapor. Contains petroleum distillates and n-propoxypopanol. (which I'll guess is some sort of alcohol?) Keep away from heat and flame.". The label on my can of Floquil thinner goes even farther and states "VAPORS MAY CAUSE FLASH FIRE"...in caps, just like I typed it. Bottom line might appear to be - if you use Testors enamels and thin them with the airbrush or Floquil thinners, you're probably making them even more combustable. Signature- Rufus |
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