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Model Forum / General / Models / September 2005Black primer for natural metal finishes?
Hi. I'm using Tamiya Titanium Silver for a natural metal finish (I use acrylics only, no enamels). I've read that people sometimes prime enamel bare-metal finishes with gloss or semi-gloss black. Why is this? Would it be appropriate for an acrylic finish, or is it something exclusive to enamels? Thanks much. Peace, David E. Young > Hi. I'm using Tamiya Titanium Silver for a natural metal finish (I use > acrylics only, no enamels). I've read that people sometimes prime [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David E. Young Alclad recommends this. The black affects how the silver Alclad will look. You could use white or some other color. Go here http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html and click on Application for more info. Curt I use only acrylics and oils......i am not sure why you would need to paint under a coat of Titanium silver, a coat of black, unless you are using it as a primer to help the paint adhere to the plastic???...........that silver colour will give pretty great cover. > I use only acrylics and oils......i am not sure why you would need to > paint under a coat of Titanium silver, a coat of black, unless you are > using it as a primer to help the paint adhere to the > plastic???...........that silver colour will give pretty great cover. The gloss black affects the application of the silver overcoat - at least for Alclads that I know. When applied in this manner, Alclad's Chrome is much smoother and replicates chrome finishes (bumpers, brightwork) very realistically. Typically, gloss finishes lay down smoother than flats with far more reflectivity as well; this adds to the orientation of the metallic particles in the topcoat being more uniform and adding to a better application. I don't know about other brands but Alclad's reccommendation works. Frank Kranick > Hi. I'm using Tamiya Titanium Silver for a natural metal finish (I use > acrylics only, no enamels). I've read that people sometimes prime [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David E. Young Actually, I use LACQUER, Tamiya's black spray. You need something very very glossy and opaque, and black does a nice job. I HAVE used other colors under Alclad, but the black gloss seems to work best. Thanks everyone. I'm going to try a gloss black coat under the titanium to see how this performs with acrylics. I'll be able to compare it with other titanium finishes I've done that did not have a black undercoat. -- david You might want to do a test shoot to see what you get because the gloss black thing, or any color gloss for that matter, is for actual bare metal deposit like polished Alclad II or SnJ metallic powder. Everything else is actually a paint and not a metallic powder so doesn't really need a base material to stick to -- if you feel you need a primer coat then it would be a good one. There are a few paints in the enamel/lacquer range that give a fairly good representation of bare metal. None of the acrylics, and I think I have tried most of them, come even close to a bare metal look. In fact the grain size is so large that unless you stand off at a distance it doesn't even give a realistic scale look of metallic paint. Don't know what your modeling criteria is but just want to let you know that there is better stuff out there than what you are talking of using. I've never used a Tamiya metallic paint on a model but I have tested several. They were about the grainiest looking I ever tried so I never put them on a model. Jim Bright "> Thanks everyone. I'm going to try a gloss black coat under the titanium > to see how this performs with acrylics. I'll be able to compare it with > other titanium finishes I've done that did not have a black undercoat. > > -- david Thanks. Acrylics are my only choice, for several reasons. I've used Tamiya's titanium silver several times and it provides a much smoother surface than their other metallic offerings. I read somewhere it was designed as a reasonable alternative to enamel stuff for NM finishes. In any event, for 1/48 and smaller aircraft it's acceptable to me. As for priming, I always use a primer coat. It helps me find blemishes my 40+ year-old eyes miss on bare plastic... dey > You might want to do a test shoot to see what you get because the gloss > black thing, or any color gloss for that matter, is for actual bare metal [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > > -- david What I've found that makes an excellent metal finish is Testors Metalizer polished with Scotchbrite. Discovered this by accident when trying to remove Metalizer from some parts. I use Metalizer in rattle cans for convenience. The trick is that you have to spray it onto bare plastic - NO primer coat. The lacquer will bite the surface of the plastic and that is the key to getting a good result, IMO. What I do is to assemble the part/model and dress all the seams. Then I spray on the Metalizer - onto the bare plastic. Light coat at first; you don't want the lacquer crazing the plastic. Then polish that out with Scotchbrite. What you end up with is a finish that looks like the back of a polished teaspoon, depending on what shade you use. Very convincing. You get two other results with this method as well - 1) the Scotchbrite also removes any Metalizer residue that may rub off during handling; and 2) the finish will naturally "age" or tarnish over time if left unsealed...which also looks pretty realistic. At present I've only used this technique on small to medium sized detail parts, but I have a Trumpeter Bear J that I'm planning on doing this as the overall finish, using several shades of Metalizer. I'll post pics on ABMS once it's in paint-up.  Signature- Rufus > Thanks. Acrylics are my only choice, for several reasons. I've used Tamiya's > titanium silver several times and it provides a much smoother surface than [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>> >>>-- david Hey, I have the Trumpeter Bear also in my stash. I've been wondering how I'd approach a natural metal finish on that bird... dey > At present I've only used this technique on small to medium sized detail > parts, but I have a Trumpeter Bear J that I'm planning on doing this as > the overall finish, using several shades of Metalizer. I'll post pics > on ABMS once it's in paint-up. Yeah - I took this one on as a volunteer job just to test my method. BIG kit...I've been constructing for about a month or two now. And that's just the wings, nacelles, and flying surfaces. Dressing up the props right now...4 engines x 2 rotors x 4 blades/rotor = LOTS of props. I figure a few cans and a ton of tape will get it done. Would like to use dry transfers for the stars if I can find them. Trying to get most of the basics done before I get to the fiddly stuff. Fourtuately (I think...) they want it built gear up, which will help a bit. Signature- Rufus > Hey, I have the Trumpeter Bear also in my stash. I've been wondering how I'd > approach a natural metal finish on that bird... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>the overall finish, using several shades of Metalizer. I'll post pics >>on ABMS once it's in paint-up. For what it's worth, the finish came out beautifully. As mentioned, I used titanium silver over a base coat of semi-gloss black. I also shaded various panels with a #2 pencil (a tip I read about here, I think) then reduced the intensity of these panels by misting again with the silver. Looks great. For those limited to acrylics exclusively (as I am), I think this is a reasonable approach. dey > Hi. I'm using Tamiya Titanium Silver for a natural metal finish (I use > acrylics only, no enamels). I've read that people sometimes prime [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > David E. Young > For what it's worth, the finish came out beautifully. As mentioned, I used > titanium silver over a base coat of semi-gloss black. I also shaded various [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > For those limited to acrylics exclusively (as I am), I think this is a > reasonable approach. FWIW A natural metal finish, as some have noted, is very critical of the surface under it. Any flaws will show up clearly. This characteristic can be put to use. One must remember that the principal surface differences in the appearance of a bare metal aircraft are due to differences in the surface finish of the various panels. If you can use high gloss, semi gloss and very matt finish undercoats on various panels and then spray overall with your natural metal finish of choice you should get a very convincing finish. I have experimented with this approach and the results weren't as good as hoped for but I believe I can improve with practice. Bill Shuey > If you can use high gloss, semi gloss and very matt finish undercoats > on various panels and then spray overall with your natural metal finish > of choice you should get a very convincing finish. I have experimented > with this approach and the results weren't as good as hoped for but I > believe I can improve with practice. Try masking and selectively buffing the panels with micromesh. |
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