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Model Forum / General / Models / October 2005F-16 colours and jetpipes
I wonder if I am re-opening a can of worms with my question. Or maybe the answer is so well known that it is boring. If so, I apologise! :-) I am planning to build a 1/72 F-16C using the Hasegawa kit (which has been sat in my loft for over a decade!). I intend to use the new Superscale sheet 72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at Ramstein. I'm a little confused about the F-16 colour schemes. Am I right in saying that F-16s came from the factory in a three grey scheme (36118, 36270, 36375) but were repainted in a two grey scheme (36118, 36270) after their first major servicing? I have noticed that some aircraft have the darker grey demarcation line sited well behind the cockpit area, while others have it actually running through the cockpit area. Is there any reason for the differences or was it all down to how the painters and finishers felt on the day? Some F-16Cs seem to have the front portion of the fin fillet painted in the dark grey as well as the leading edge of the tailplanes in medium grey, while others don't. Why? I tend to build variations on a theme, so I'm pretty sure that more F-16s will follow. With that in mind, am I correct in assuming that the original Hasegawa kit (HA B02) has the GE engine? If so, what is the best way of building an aircraft with a PW engine and small mouth intake? Thanks in advance for any advice.  SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. I think that's because it was done by hand, correct me if I'm wrong. It use to be the reason for those kind of differances. But at the same time it makes it much more fun to model the F-16, as you can create different individs... Check http://www.f-16.net/ they use to know everything about this issue. //André www.abieandre.com/andre.htm > I wonder if I am re-opening a can of worms with my question. Or maybe the > answer is so well known that it is boring. If so, I apologise! :-) [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks in advance for any advice. The aircraft was origianlly sold with the Pratt engine, so I would think that the "original" kit would have the Pratt engine nozzle. GE got the tap in about 1983, if I recall the party when we won right. The way to tell the difference is that the GE nozzle has a bit more curve in it's outline. The big mouth intake came yet later still...I think. The Falcon experten out there are going to have to fill in my blanks here...I only know the motors. As for the camo demarcation, from what I've seen it can vary. I suppose it depends on where the jet was painted, whom painted it, and with what type equipment - for US operators there are several refurb depots, as well as touch up which may occur in the field. Check pictures for the jet you wish to model. That's the best way. Signature- Rufus > I wonder if I am re-opening a can of worms with my question. Or maybe the > answer is so well known that it is boring. If so, I apologise! :-) [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > The aircraft was origianlly sold with the Pratt engine, so I would > think that the "original" kit would have the Pratt engine nozzle. Thank you. In that case, would the Hasegawa F-16N provide a suitable kit for the small-mouth GE powered version? SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >> The aircraft was origianlly sold with the Pratt engine, so I would >> think that the "original" kit would have the Pratt engine nozzle. > > Thank you. In that case, would the Hasegawa F-16N provide a suitable kit > for > the small-mouth GE powered version? If this site doesn't have the answer I don't know who does. http://www.habu2.net/vipers/index.html Curt >>> The aircraft was origianlly sold with the Pratt engine, so I would >>> think that the "original" kit would have the Pratt engine nozzle. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.habu2.net/vipers/index.html It *did* have the answer! :-) Thanks very much, Curt! SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >>The aircraft was origianlly sold with the Pratt engine, so I would >>think that the "original" kit would have the Pratt engine nozzle. > > Thank you. In that case, would the Hasegawa F-16N provide a suitable kit for > the small-mouth GE powered version? I should think so...you'll end up with some parts you won't need, if my 1/32 Revell F-16N is any example. I plan to use a Pratt nozzle from my Revell F-15 Strike Eagle kit on it - the detail is better, and it fits nicely. Signature- Rufus Which tail number is on the SuperScale sheet? What are the markings? I was at Ramstein during the conversion from F-4Es to F-16Cs. I photographed a number of the 86TFW F-16Cs and Ds, including 85-1286 "Peppermint Patty", aka "Candyass". I know a year or so later they traded in their Pratt & Whitney powered jets for later block GE powered jets, but I was long-gone back to the states by then. I have a photo of one of those GE powered jets with a dragon on the tail that a friend of mine shot. If you want I can e-mail you scans of my photos. Scott Wilson comm-nav avionics tech, 526TFS/86AGS, 86TFW (F-4E) 1983-1986 > I am planning to build a 1/72 F-16C using the Hasegawa kit (which has been > sat in my loft for over a decade!). I intend to use the new Superscale > sheet > 72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at > Ramstein. Scott, I was in QA there by then. The first jets we got in were new Block 25 F-16Cs with F-100-PW engines in them. After about six months, we sent those jets to Hahn and got new Block 30 F-16Cs with F-110-GE engines. The tail number for the 512 CC jet was 412. Don't remember the year for the tail number. That jet broke its back at Nellis in (I think) 1988. Landed hard after being cleared in just after two F-111s had departed. Understand the jet was trucked to Hill, repaired and sent to MacDill, where it broke its back again. Enzo, yes most of the jets were repainted in the two-color scheme, mostly to save money and maintenance time. The main differences you'll see in the layout of the paint have to do with version of the aircraft. F-16Cs had the dark grey only come up to behind the cockpit, whereas the F-16As had it come up to the canopy bow. The C models have the leading edge of the fin fillet painted in the dark grey, running back along the base of the fin where it meets the fillet. The A models were not painted on the fillet. AS to why, I think it's because of the increased thickness of the fillet for the C models, to help hide the light grey when viewed from above. Steve > Which tail number is on the SuperScale sheet? What are the markings? I was > at Ramstein during the conversion from F-4Es to F-16Cs. I photographed a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at > > Ramstein. SignatureNever underestimate the power of human stupidity. - Lazarus Long My 1/48 Hasegawa kit (# V3) depicting this Ramstien jet has it's tail number as 84-316. So does the SuperScale sheet. Does that spark any memories?.. Signature- Rufus > Scott, > I was in QA there by then. The first jets we got in were new Block 25 [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >>>72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at >>>Ramstein. I think it was 84 fiscal year, but I'm certain at least one of the Dragon CC jets was 412. The 1/72nd sheet shows it that way, too. Actually, both of them do. The jet was on an earlier sheet from them, also, with the drawings based on photos and drawings made by Mark Anderson, a crew chief I was in QA with. 84-316 was the jet used as the 316 Air Division's CC jet. It's the one with the black, blue, and gold lion rampant with sword is on. That's the one we called Garfield. Steve > My 1/48 Hasegawa kit (# V3) depicting this Ramstien jet has it's tail > number as 84-316. So does the SuperScale sheet. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >>>72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at > >>>Ramstein. SignatureNever underestimate the power of human stupidity. - Lazarus Long Both the kit decals and the SuperScale sheet (which is a duplicate of the kit decals) only show the lion as black and gold - which part(s) was blue? The other jet in the set is 84-286; with a red and white striped tail, belonging to the 512th TFS. Did you know that one as well? Fitzgerald, Racicot, Puckett, Gilbertson are some of the guys names on the sheet. All from the 512th, from the look of it. Signature- Rufus > I think it was 84 fiscal year, but I'm certain at least one of the > Dragon CC jets was 412. The 1/72nd sheet shows it that way, too. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>>>>72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at >>>>>Ramstein. May be my fading memory that put some blue in there. 316 actually flew with the 526TFS. Yeah, 286 is the one we called Candy a.s. The wing called it Peppermint Patty. I'm pretty sure that was a 526 jet, though. Steve > Both the kit decals and the SuperScale sheet (which is a duplicate of > the kit decals) only show the lion as black and gold - which part(s) was [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > >>>>>72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at > >>>>>Ramstein. SignatureNever underestimate the power of human stupidity. - Lazarus Long > Yeah, 286 is the one we called Candy a.s. The wing > called it Peppermint Patty. I'm pretty sure that was a 526 jet, though. > Steve 84-1286 was wearing a 512TFS patch when I photographed her on April 10, 1986. I'll post a scan of my photo on a.b.m.s. Scott Wilson Never trust the decals...;) Signature- Rufus > May be my fading memory that put some blue in there. 316 actually flew > with the 526TFS. Yeah, 286 is the one we called Candy a.s. The wing [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >>>>>>>72-873 for the squadron commander's aircraft of the 512 TFS/86 TFW at >>>>>>>Ramstein. > Scott, > I was in QA there by then. The first jets we got in were new Block 25 > F-16Cs with F-100-PW engines in them. After about six months, we sent > those jets to Hahn and got new Block 30 F-16Cs with F-110-GE engines. > The tail number for the 512 CC jet was 412. Don't remember the year > for the tail number. The Superscale sheet depicts 85-0412. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. > Which tail number is on the SuperScale sheet? What are the markings? > I was at Ramstein during the conversion from F-4Es to F-16Cs. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that a friend of mine shot. If you want I can e-mail you scans of my > photos. According to the instruction sheet the aircraft is F-16C-30 85-0412 512 TFS/86 TFW. It is a GE powered jet with a small mouth intake. On the fin there is a large black dragon superimposed over a stylised German flag. It certainly seems like the jet that your friend photographed. Thanks for your offer, Scott. I would be very grateful for copies of the scans. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. I posted my scan of Kevin Foy's photo on alt.binaries.models.scale. > I posted my scan of Kevin Foy's photo on alt.binaries.models.scale. Thank you very much indeed. An interesting point is that the SuperScale instruction sheet is incorrect as it shows the aircraft without a dark grey band on the fin fillet. Your photo clearly shows that the aicraft did indeed have the band. It also seems that the serial number on the ventral fins is somewhat larger than those provided on the decal sheet, but that is easy to fix. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. Try this link : http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/luft_flug_e.htm#f16 The Egypt I Schemes show the 3 tone grays with variations on the demarcation line of FS36118 where as the Hill Scheme is just 2 tone grays. (Excluding the nose cone) It lists the Egypt I schemes with the F-16A and the Hill Scheme as the F-16C. Hope this helps. Vic Try this link : http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/luft_flug_e.htm#f16 The Egypt I Schemes show the 3 tone grays with variations on the demarcation line of FS36118 where as the Hill Scheme is just 2 tone grays. (Excluding the nose cone) It lists the Egypt I schemes with the F-16A and the Hill Scheme as the F-16C. Hope this helps. Vic In answer to your original query, you can see in the two photos of Ramstein F-16Cs I posted on a.b.m.s that they were in the three grey scheme. It's kind of difficult to see in my scans but it is definitely the way they were painted. Scott Wilson |
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