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Model Forum / General / Models / December 2005Last survivor of Christmas truce passes-
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/21/wwi.soldier.ap/index.html The last survivor of the spontaneous truce on the western front in 1914 has died in Scotland- Rest in peace, soldier. The article mentions that there are only about 10 WWI vets alive in Britain. Something like that really reminds you of just how long ago that was-  SignatureJim Atkins Twentynine Palms, CA USA Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho Marx >http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/21/wwi.soldier.ap/index.html > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >WWI vets alive in Britain. Something like that really reminds you of just >how long ago that was- any idea how many american? google gagged or i syntaxed. if memeory serves, the last spanish amvet was in the 80's? there are no german trucers left, either? it will be a hundred years ago, not that far off. i knew many ww1 vets as a child and teen. you're making me feel old, jimster. > >http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/21/wwi.soldier.ap/index.html > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > i knew many ww1 vets as a child and teen. > you're making me feel old, jimster. I believe a recent national news report indicated less than 50 known US WWI vets are still alive. As many as 10,000 were alive in 1990. Too soon, we'll be speaking of WWII vets in the same manner. SignatureKaliste Saloom IPMS #30703 Lafayette, LA USA >> In article <0vadnY-SeK2AMx_eRVn-tA@adelphia.com>, "Jim Atkins" >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Too soon, we'll be speaking of WWII vets in the same manner. and in what seems a gross unfairness, we'll be past tense. the only booming we'll do is for the funeral industry. notice that all the chains are buying them up? small private funeral homes are going extinct. there are some smart boys out there who will clean up. and check where prices are going. $2000 bucks for a simple burn and urn. soon a funeral will be more than a new, decent car. wish i was 30 years younger with a few bicks to invest. the trade in human misery is quite lucrative. >...soon a funeral will be more than a new, decent car. Just one of the reasons I'm donating my body to science... SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." I highly recommend the book about it called "Silent Night". It happened in 1914, and they tried again but failed in 1915. --- Tontoni > http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/21/wwi.soldier.ap/index.html > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > WWI vets alive in Britain. Something like that really reminds you of just > how long ago that was- In December of 1914, the mindset was still that of a "grand adventure" although some of the glitter was wearing off. By Christmas of 1915 (the watchful eyes of senior commanders notwithstanding), the horrors of the war were clearly evident to all participants, along with the (understandable) elevated bitter feelings for those from the "other side." I am not surprised at all that it didn't catch on the next year, nor was even attempted after that. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- >I highly recommend the book about it called "Silent Night". It happened > in 1914, and they tried again but failed in 1915. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> WWI vets alive in Britain. Something like that really reminds you of just >> how long ago that was- >In December of 1914, the mindset was still that of a "grand adventure" >although some of the glitter was wearing off. By Christmas of 1915 (the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >surprised at all that it didn't catch on the next year, nor was even >attempted after that. my grandfathe said that most of the gemans, french and english soldiers he dealt with in 17-18 didn't really hate each other. they hated the war and officers and the seemingly endless death, but not their opposite numbers. from what i read, in 1915, brass hats made an effort to prevent a reoccurence. i'm not an expert on ww1, and i cannot swear my grandfather was either, but he did have lots of german friends from his part after the war ended. My great cousin was a Marine in WW-I and he talked to me about the Great War back in the 50s when I was a kid and I still remember his stories. He told me that even though he, himself, was the son of a 1st generation German immigrant neither he, nor any other Marine in his unit, had any use for the Germans. They treated German prisoners fairly but had absolutely no problem with killing them in battle - he was at Chateau Thierre (Belleau Wood) and the St Miehel (Argonne Forest) campaigns. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- >>In December of 1914, the mindset was still that of a "grand adventure" >>although some of the glitter was wearing off. By Christmas of 1915 (the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > was either, but he did have lots of german friends from his > part after the war ended. >Path: > news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >with killing them in battle - he was at Chateau Thierre (Belleau Wood) and >the St Miehel (Argonne Forest) campaigns. yeah, i've heard stuff like that too from other schnitzel-amis. i've often heard that it was very impersonal unless you were in hand to hand and that the best tool was a shovel for that.. apparently, there was more personal friction between black and white units, and that some marine units had more casualtys from in-fighting than the germans. racism in the trenches.....what a f.cked up concept. I remember reading in a book on uniforms that the US Army found its black units an embarrassment in World War One because of the policy of segregation. Where possible, they were absorbed by French Army formations. The French had large numbers of colonial troops from various parts of North Africa and were used to the idea of black troops. The French made good use of them and they fought well. I agree that the idea of racism in the trenches is dreadful. Gordon McLaughlin > >Path: news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!ea sy >news!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!207.115.63.142!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsc > >on06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nnt [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > casualtys from in-fighting than the germans. > racism in the trenches.....what a f.cked up concept. >I remember reading in a book on uniforms that the US Army found its black >units an embarrassment in World War One because of the policy of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Gordon McLaughlin i remember reading about a black marine unit stationed next to a white, mostly southern unit, apparently they had to be moved because the white marines would kill a black marine, the blacks would kill two whites and it escalated until more were being killed than by the germans. I never heard anything about your allegation of racism in the trenches, etc. I might be wrong but I don't think there were any black combat units in the trenches in the Marines in WW-I. My great cousin was always quite candid with me, even though I was a kid of 10-11 years old, about his experiences. He never made any mention of any sort of thing like that and, if he had experienced (or even heard of) such a thing, he would have made mention of it. I'd be quite interested in reading any credible source info you might have on this. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- >>Path: >> news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easy [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > casualtys from in-fighting than the germans. > racism in the trenches.....what a f.cked up concept. I can't comment on the specific question of the Marines but, since posting my first message on black troops, I've found the book that I saw the information in. The book is World War 1 Infantry in Colour Photographs by Laurent Mirouze. In the text accompanying a photograph of a black US infantryman, it refers to the 93rd Division. This formation is said to have existed only on paper because its four regiments of black infantry were transferred to the French 157th Division "Goybet", a predominantly black division. Basic US Army uniform was worn but weapons and equipment were French, including the Adrian helmet, for supply reasons. The text refers solely to US Army units; the Marines are not mentioned. Gordon McLaughlin > I never heard anything about your allegation of racism in the trenches, etc. > I might be wrong but I don't think there were any black combat units in the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > have on this. > >>Path: news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!ea sy >>news!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!207.115.63.142!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsc > >>on06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nnt [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > casualtys from in-fighting than the germans. > > racism in the trenches.....what a f.cked up concept. >>>>> "e" == e <noone@some.domain> writes: e> In article <-bedneXtl8_uUB7enZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, >> In December of 1914, the mindset was still that of a "grand >> adventure" although some of the glitter was wearing off. By >> Christmas of 1915 (the watchful eyes of senior commanders >> notwithstanding), the horrors of the war were clearly evident >> to all participants, along with the (understandable) elevated >> bitter feelings for those from the "other side." I am not >> surprised at all that it didn't catch on the next year, nor was >> even attempted after that. e> my grandfathe said that most of the gemans, french and english e> soldiers he dealt with in 17-18 didn't really hate each e> other. they hated the war and officers and the seemingly e> endless death, but not their opposite numbers. from what i e> read, in 1915, brass hats made an effort to prevent a e> reoccurence. i'm not an expert on ww1, and i cannot swear my e> grandfather was either, but he did have lots of german friends e> from his part after the war ended. That is a moving tale there, 'e'. I guess a sure sign of good mental health is the ability to make friends with those faced in warfare - and not judge people based on various facets of their character/personality. Your grandfather was no doubt a remarkable man. SignatureG Hassenpflug /* IJN & JMSDF */ >>>>>> "e" == e <noone@some.domain> writes: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >and not judge people based on various facets of their >character/personality. Your grandfather was no doubt a remarkable man. yeah, he was a pissah. stayed active in vets organizations to the day he died. never hesitated telling anyone interested about his expiriences and even wrote many of them down. My uncle was in one of the lead battalions driving into Germany. He felt the same toward the Germans (and the Vichy French and Italians before that) until he helped liberate the first of three death camps. After that he shot any German with a weapon who didn't have his hands up, as did every man in that position in his unit. That includes three civilians, two with grenades and one with a Panzerfaust who was about 13 years old. Didn't flinch an inch. War is one thng, wholesale intentional up close slaughter of millions of civilians is something else entirely. Tom >>>>> "maiesm72@netscape" == maiesm72@netscape com <maiesm72@netscape.com> writes: maiesm72@netscape> My uncle was in one of the lead battalions maiesm72@netscape> driving into Germany. He felt the same toward maiesm72@netscape> the Germans (and the Vichy French and Italians maiesm72@netscape> before that) until he helped liberate the first maiesm72@netscape> of three death camps. maiesm72@netscape> After that he shot any German with a weapon who maiesm72@netscape> didn't have his hands up, as did every man in maiesm72@netscape> that position in his unit. That includes three maiesm72@netscape> civilians, two with grenades and one with a maiesm72@netscape> Panzerfaust who was about 13 years old. Didn't maiesm72@netscape> flinch an inch. maiesm72@netscape> War is one thng, wholesale intentional up close maiesm72@netscape> slaughter of millions of civilians is something maiesm72@netscape> else entirely. I guess that's just another instance of a "tipping point", based on our human trait of categorizing other humans based on one or two aspects of their makeup (pun intended). It's the people who remained calm amidst such atrocities, and decided not to group all the "enemy" into one basket that are remarkable - the rest, like your uncle, are merely normal. It is interesting that people who "tip" at one instance will not "tip" at others, so it is not a matter of saying your uncle was manipulated eaily or anything like that, so please don't take this personally. SignatureG Hassenpflug /* IJN & JMSDF */ I won't take it personally. My uncle was there, I was not. Our family is German/Spanish/Apache on my father's side. He actually visited the Laederich family home in Alsiase-Lorraine (IIRC), meeting family members and Jews hidden in the attic of the home/weaving business. The funny thing was that the first floor had been commandeered by the Waffen SS for a couple of years. One of the officers warned them to leave and hde "their Jews" because of impending plans to kill them all as the Allies approached. I'll leave that to the surviving familes of the millions of civilians murdered by the Nazi war machine, the Stalinist cabal, the Italian flirtation with Fascism and, yes, the German civilians intentionally killed by Allied bombing. The only people that I find offensive today are those few morons who stick to the Nazi nonsense and those even more stupid ones who claim that it never happened. I rented a house for several years from an unrepentant Danish Nazi. Once I found out who he was moved and reported what I knew to the Danish Consulate. It took three years, but they filed deportation and war crimes charges against him. He died in disgrace during the process. I occasionally build a model of a WWII German aircraft and vehicles, but find much more satisfacton in building a model of a captured or small air force German aircraft. My favorites completed so far are an all red USAAF FW 190 and a Kubelwagen with Luftwaffe pilot and crew who had brought home pieces from a Hurricane being captured by Tommies. The only German aircraft in my display case with a swastika is a tiny Schneider SG-38 in pre-war civilian markings. It has the rarely seen sectional markings, in this case D-12-410, with a tiny Nazi flag on the tail. My wife is Jewish. Out of respect I put away a few others with swastikas and gave away others. As long as there are survivors of oppression and genocide there will be hatred of the oppressors. As long as there are those who study history there will be those who remember what happened. BTW, are you in Japan? Could you e-mail me, please? Best wishes, Tom maiesm72@netscape> I won't take it personally. My uncle was there,... Fascinating post, thank you. Yes, I'm in Japan, will email you (my mail address is in the X-Jost-Rating header, BTW) SignatureG Hassenpflug /* IJN & JMSDF */ I understand his uncle's feelings totally and completely. I knew my relative as a good, kind, rational man and I was surprised at the feelings my great cousin related to me about his time as a Marine in the Great War.....until I went to war myself. It's much easier to understand those feelings if you've seen the elephant yourself. If not, it's probably impossible to understand. C'est la Guerre. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- >>>>>> "maiesm72@netscape" == maiesm72@netscape com <maiesm72@netscape.com> >>>>>> writes: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > your uncle was manipulated eaily or anything like that, so please > don't take this personally. Bill> I understand his uncle's feelings totally and completely. I Bill> knew my relative as a good, kind, rational man and I was Bill> surprised at the feelings my great cousin related to me Bill> about his time as a Marine in the Great War.....until I went Bill> to war myself. It's much easier to understand those Bill> feelings if you've seen the elephant yourself. If not, it's Bill> probably impossible to understand. C'est la Guerre. No argument there. I believe you can't classify people based on a few observations, because you never know how they may react in others. When you experience similar stresses, you find it easier to understand how others might have been affected (diifferently or similarly is not really the issue) by them too. Glad you made it back safely. SignatureG Hassenpflug /* IJN & JMSDF */ Thanks for the tip on the book. The official count of surviving Canadian Great War vets as of November 11, 2005 was six. Cheers, Doc >I highly recommend the book about it called "Silent Night". It happened > in 1914, and they tried again but failed in 1915. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> WWI vets alive in Britain. Something like that really reminds you of just >> how long ago that was- I wish I had been smarter as a 12 year old. I met a veteran of the Siberian campaign and did not realize what he could have taught. It was not until a passing paragraph in a text book, while in college, that I even saw a reference to US involvement in Russia in the 1900's. George T. Mausury(?) died the following year without any fanfare or more involvement on my thick-headed part. If you meet, or know a vet, talk to them - it is the least we can do. > http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/21/wwi.soldier.ap/index.html > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > WWI vets alive in Britain. Something like that really reminds you of just > how long ago that was- Spent Thanksgiving in Disneyland. Crowded, great choices of venue for dinner. While waiting for fireworks, in line for rides, etc. had chances to talk to several vets ranging from WWI to present. Aside from hearing some great war stories also had the opportunity to thank them for their service and sacrafice. Every one stated that he (and one she from WWII) very rarely hear thanks, even though they wear a distinguishing cap, etc. Justin has the second of two leg operations on 12/23 and will be confined to bed for a week, then very limited for a month. Because Channukah starts on 12/25 he'll be in bed for both Christmas and Chrstmas, so we'll be spendng a couple of afternoons prior to surgery visiting vets at the VA hospital and a couple of retirement homes in the area. He looks forward to that as much as we do. There are a few vets right down the street from us that we visit every week on walks. The other day he identified a B-17 in a magazine that I was reading as "Nine-O-Nine". When we left on our walk he insisted on taking the magazine with him. We stopped to talk to the old B-17 pilot down the street and Justing gave him the magazine. Sad to say never would have thought of that. To all of you guys and gals here who served and to those who lost loved ones and frends we give our thanks. Tom |
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