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Model Forum / General / Models / December 2005Heller Jaguar
Does anyone know if the Heller Jaguar kit is related to the ESCI kit or is it completely differant? If it is a differant kit does anyone know how it builds as far as fit etc. Thanks Mike I think it is more related to the Airfix Jaguar, afaik it's the same kit. >Does anyone know if the Heller Jaguar kit is related to the ESCI kit or >is it completely differant? If it is a differant kit does anyone know >how it builds as far as fit etc. >Thanks > >Mike *time is an enemy* That being the case then it must be from the ESCI molds, because the Airfix kit # 7104 is from the ESCI molds with a few changes. I was trying to keep from digging way down in the stash to find one of my old ESCI kits to compare. I just didn't remember ESCI ever making the French version of the Jaguar. Mike > That being the case then it must be from the ESCI molds, because the > Airfix kit # 7104 is from the ESCI molds with a few changes. I was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mike I don't think the (relatively) new tool Airfix/Heller kits, including 7104, the GR.3, have anything to do with the old ESCI molds. I had one of the old ESCI kits when the Airfix kit came out and, although the Airfix kit isn't all that great, it didn't look like it had any relation to the old ESCI kit, which had far fewer parts, raised details, much less detail, and completely different weapons. Also, ESCI did in fact release their old Jaguar as a French version, number 4063. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6012674495&category=2587 Dave > I don't think the (relatively) new tool Airfix/Heller kits, including 7104, > the GR.3, have anything to do with the old ESCI molds. I had one of the old [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dave You're right Dave. The Airfix Heller kit is really good, as good than the ESCI/Italeri is bad...  SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gentlemen you are correct. I was confusing the Jaguar with the recently released Italeri Mirage III E which I believe is from the old ESCI kit. I have a oppurtunity to get the Heller kit and if it was from the ESCI molds I probably would not be interested .Thanks for the help. Old age is a terrible thing. Mike > Gentlemen you are correct. I was confusing the Jaguar with the recently > released Italeri Mirage III E which I believe is from the old ESCI kit. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mike Hi again Mike, Well, the only brand which knows how make nice Mirage kits is Heller. Sizes are accurate, wings profile is perfect... Not the same thing with the other brands, even those which sell kits more detailled, because the only problem with Heller is the modeller who need to create a lot of details himself, or buy some aftermarket sets. To build à nice and accurate Mirage IIIE, there is only one way: Heller Mirage III C/B kit + Ouragan Models set. SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi again Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > To build à nice and accurate Mirage IIIE, there is only > one way: Heller Mirage III C/B kit + Ouragan Models set. Do you include the new Czech Eduard Mirage in that assessment Chris? I found the Heller 1/48s a good likeness, but I was hoping the new Eduard version would be an update (recessed lines/etch?resin etc.). Have you had a chance to compare them? It'd be good to get an expert opinion. Chek > Do you include the new Czech Eduard Mirage in that assessment Chris? > I found the Heller 1/48s a good likeness, but I was hoping [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Chek Hi Chek, I'm not an expert, just a Mirage lover... ;-) Well the Eduard Mirage III is nice, very detailed... but not accurate. Forms and dimensions are too rough in my opinion, in particular for the wings. Resin is often "gadget", even in that case the inside of the plane is so "better performed" than with Heller. For the recessed lines, for me it is an error on a plane as smooth as the Mirage III. I prefer to sand Heller's parts and to use former lines to draw panels with only a line of pencil. Yes, I had the chance to compare them: I built the Heller kit at less 25 times since the all first time it was on the market, log years ago, and I love it, even the building is more complicated by the possibility to build the single seater version and the two seater one... I had also one of the first Eduard box for the FFSMC, and even if the parts are impressive, I was amazed with the work to do to modify a lot of things to get an accurate Mirage III Sorry for my bad English, I just hope you will understand a few... SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Do you include the new Czech Eduard Mirage in that assessment Chris? > > I found the Heller 1/48s a good likeness, but I was hoping [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > (http://plus2pc.com) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris No need to apologize for your English, I know people raised in the states that don't do as well with it ;>) Mike > Chris > No need to apologize for your English, I know people raised in the > states that don't do as well with it ;>) > > Mike Well, You are too kind Mike. I distrust a lot of my bad English, because it happens sometimes that by wanting to explain something, I write the opposite... funny situations sometimes, or sometimes very unpleasant... SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the comments Chris. Shame about the Eduard, but I would rather have accurate than well produced in a model. I tend to think that Heller (and now also Revell Germany) are the best makers for accurate European subjects. And your English is excellent Chek. >> Do you include the new Czech Eduard Mirage in that >> assessment Chris? [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Sorry for my bad English, I just hope you will understand > a few... > Thanks for the comments Chris. > Shame about the Eduard, but I would rather have accurate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Chek. Well Chek, Shame is doubtless a little exaggerated: this kit is not ugly, it is only less accurate than the Heller. When the model is finished, it looks like a Mirage III, but it is not a true reduction of a Mirage III. In fact, it is a question of philosophy of the modeller: if he wants to obtain easily and fast a model which looks like the Mirage III without being it really one, the kit Eduard is very well. If on the contrary the modeller wishes an accurate model and is not afraid of working to create details, the Heller kit is reference without any concurence. SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Does anyone know if the Heller Jaguar kit is related to the ESCI kit or > is it completely differant? If it is a differant kit does anyone know > how it builds as far as fit etc. > Thanks > > Mike If you wrote about the 1/48 kit, nope. The base is the same than Airfix one, but with the differences between French version (Heller) and British version (Airfix). SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Heller/Airfix Jaguar is by far the better kit, certainly with regard to the RAF versions. The laser nose of the ESCI offering is too flat and just doesn't look right. I have built several dozen of the Airfix offering, and whilst not exactly cutting edge or 100% accurate it does look like a Jag. Add some of the Paragon details or conversions and it becomes even more so. I have also done a few French Heller kits, both the single seat A and 2 seat E ( conversion - Hitech I think ) and some of the schemes are really smart ( eg three tone brown over silver....) Any specific Jaguar queries, especially RAF? Ian > The Heller/Airfix Jaguar is by far the better kit, certainly with > regard to the RAF versions. The laser nose of the ESCI offering is too [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ian Hi Ian, I'm not a specialist of the RAF Jags, but at less for the French wild cats, I never saw a better accurate kit than the Heller one. Yes, that's right, like often with this brand, the details are not numerous, and scratch building or aftermarket sets are welcame, but the base of work is very good: sizes, forms are accurate... not like ESCI, Hase or other I saw. SignatureChris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Walkarounds & Scale modelling Portal : http://www.ffsmc.com Sites partenaires: Nikon France (http://www.nikon.fr) et Plus2PC (http://plus2pc.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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