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Model Forum / General / Models / December 2005Should it have a swatika?
I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should this be a swastika? Have a look at http://www.sbxmodelshop.co.uk:8089/wsimages/SH7261.jpg David >I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals > include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should > this be a swastika? > Have a look at http://www.sbxmodelshop.co.uk:8089/wsimages/SH7261.jpg > > David WoW, realy got Me stumped on that one!!!!!! >>I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals >> include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >WoW, realy got Me stumped on that one!!!!!! Yes, I have done a google image search and can't find a reference. There are lots of Canadian versions :-) >>>I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals >>> include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Yes, I have done a google image search and can't find a reference. >There are lots of Canadian versions :-) Thanks to every one that contributed. I think that i can safely say that the one I want to build 'had' a swastika - see i can spell it - grin. David Yes. Some model companies leave it off out of sensitivity and respect for what it represents to those who suffered under Nazi rule. Also, there are nations (Germany I believe is one) where it is illegal to display the swastika. >I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals > include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should > this be a swastika? > Have a look at http://www.sbxmodelshop.co.uk:8089/wsimages/SH7261.jpg > > David >Yes. >Some model companies leave it off out of sensitivity and respect for what it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> David Thanks but actually I knew that. We stock aftermarket sheets of decals for Sawstikas. the question was 'should it have one?' in the sense that the aircraft modelled is a pre-war one and a private one at that so I don't know. On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:23:18 +0000, dnews wrote: > Thanks but actually I knew that. We stock aftermarket sheets of decals > for Sawstikas. the question was 'should it have one?' in the sense > that the aircraft modelled is a pre-war one and a private one at that > so I don't know. If the instructions show the diamond thingy, then a swastika should be used. The diamond is how MPM gets around the EU rules forbidding display of the swastika.  SignatureJess >>Yes. >>Some model companies leave it off out of sensitivity and respect for [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that the aircraft modelled is a pre-war one and a private one at that > so I don't know. Hi, Go to: http://www.art-joe.com/AtelierJo4/vater/w34.jpg http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/air/d/junker/05400.jpg There are W34's with a swas on the tail. Some VERY FINE PICS are found at: www.luftarchiv.de/ flugzeuge/junkers/ju34.htm HTH, Dennis >I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals > include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should > this be a swastika? > Have a look at http://www.sbxmodelshop.co.uk:8089/wsimages/SH7261.jpg > > David Some kits I've seen the swastika decal is presented in several pieces. This leaves the modeller to assemble the marking without the model company contravening local law by printing it. Are there any funny looking pieces on the sheet that look like they could make up the "crooked cross"? Are there any funny looking pieces on > the sheet that look like they could make up the "crooked cross"? IIRC, you simply trim the black diamond in quarters and rotate the pieces. I find it easier to use aftermarket sheets : ) SignatureJess I have no trouble with the abscence of swastikas in kits, but the instructons, at least, should contain the necessary information. Symbols can have intense meaning to some people. The swastika debate has raged for decades, but another one seems to have been at least dealt with on a temporary basis. The Internatonial Red Cross is recognized world wide. In the Middle East the same is true for the Red Crescent Moon & Star, a Moslem version with very similar goals. Lesser known is the Magan David Adom, the Israeli Blue Star of David (sometmes red). While the Israeli organization tends to all victims, the Moslem version will not assist anyone but Moslems. The IIRC, in their great and far wisdom (sarcasm mode on) has allowed the Moslem organization to work with them, but not the Jewish organization. The Moslems have prevented Israeli participation for decades. Last week the IIRC allowed the Israelis to become part of the organization.. In order to PC hell out of everything the IIRC has created a new logo, a large red diamond outline, into which each organization can place their particular emblem when operating in home territories, but to be left empty elsewhere. The RCMA has refused to accept the Israelis or the new logo. And you thought that the pretty red cross on the helicopter or ambulance was so innocent. :-( Tom People can be soooooo stupid... the red cross is actually the reverse image of the national symbol or flag of Switzerland (a white cross on a red background) which was chosen as a symbol when the International Red Cross was founded - in Switzerland. It is NOT a religious symbol, but heraldic... Am 22 Dec 2005 14:10:20 -0800 schrieb "TC": >People can be soooooo stupid... the red cross is actually the reverse >image of the national symbol or flag of Switzerland (a white cross on a >red background) which was chosen as a symbol when the International Red >Cross was founded - in Switzerland. It is NOT a religious symbol, but >heraldic... Nononono... The Swiss flag is a sign of the enduring fight against their very neighbor country Austria for the predominance in the Alps region. Originally both countries had an identical simple red flag. Then the Swiss added a white plus sign - the Austrians were left with the remaining minus... <scnr> cu, ZiLi aka HKZL SignatureGib mir die Zahlen die Du hast, und gib mir die Zahlen die Du brauchst - Und ich suche dann die richtigen Tests raus, um aus den einen die anderen Zahlen zu machen. > Gib mir die Zahlen die Du hast, > und gib mir die Zahlen die Du brauchst - > Und ich suche dann die richtigen Tests raus, > um aus den einen die anderen Zahlen zu machen. Ah the creed of modern industry! Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. Am Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:57:50 -0600 schrieb "Mad-Modeller": >> Gib mir die Zahlen die Du hast, >> und gib mir die Zahlen die Du brauchst - >> Und ich suche dann die richtigen Tests raus, >> um aus den einen die anderen Zahlen zu machen. > >Ah the creed of modern industry! No - that's the first law of statistics. Another one: I never trust any statistics _not_ forged by me. cu, ZiLi aka HKZL (Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker) Signature"Abusus non tollit usum" - Latin: Abuse is no argument against proper use. mailto: heinrich@zili.de http://zili.de >>I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals >> include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >contravening local law by printing it. Are there any funny looking pieces on >the sheet that look like they could make up the "crooked cross"? Yes, the recent MPM Blenheims did that for Finnish markings. Still doesn't tell me even if it should have one though - grin. > I am pondering making a Special Hobby Junkers W 34 Hau. The decals > include a black diamond on the tail that is outlined in white. Should > this be a swastika? > Have a look at http://www.sbxmodelshop.co.uk:8089/wsimages/SH7261.jpg > > David For the markings shown, I'd say yes. The codes and paint job certainly indicate a Luftwaffe aircraft, probably from the early war period and all military aircraft would have had a swastika on the tail. Dave Yep, it should have one! The "Diamond" on the box art is just to represent a Swastika, the open display of which is banned in some EU countries. MPM also put in a swastika decal, usually sliced diagonally, on the kit decal sheet, by doing so, they do not contravene the ban, as it's not a "swastika" until placed on the model. As pointed out above, they even have to do this with Finnish kits, even though the Swastika is blue and "opposite" to the German version! That's PC gone mad. I know there are sensitivities, but the Czechs were annexed and occupied by Nazi Germany, but they don't have a problem with swastikas! Chris |
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