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Model Forum / General / Models / December 2005Flat Black for the last time
Hello everybody, Finally I managed to get a Tamiya XF-1 bottle. It turned out that it's much more flat that the paints I used before. So to sum up me "flatness research": Pactra / ModeMaster / Humbrol flat black is about the same level of flatness (I'd call them satin) Using Vallejo "Matte Medium" over those paints increases flatness a bit but the difference is hard to noitice. Using Vallejo "Matte Varnish" over those paints increases flatness a little but more. Tamiya Flat Black is MUCH more flat than any of those. I can send a photo to anyone interested. Tamiya paint has also a strong "autowither" feature - bad thing for some but actually I like it. I mean the surface when touched becomes less flat. If you use a piece of fabric to rub it - it will become similar to Pactra / ModeMaster / Humbrol (in flatness level). It makes very easy to make some parts less flat than other which looks really nice. Maciek ps. Mixing, as many suggested, should make a difference but I have not observed it! I briefly mixed Tamiya (1 minute of shaking) and it was really very flat, while 10-minute throuout mixing / shaking of others did not increase their flatness levels significantly. . > Maciek > > ps. Mixing, as many suggested, should make a difference but I have not > observed it! I briefly mixed Tamiya (1 minute of shaking) and it was really > very flat, while 10-minute throuout mixing / shaking of others did not > increase their flatness levels significantly. What DOES make a difference, however, is how wet you apply it. With a brush this is just technique. For an airbrush it depends on pressure and rate of application. I use a higher pressure for flats, which allows me to back off a bit- the further you are from the workpiece the dryer the coat you put down, and the flatter it looks. You don't want to allow it to get wet, as it will dry semi-gloss/semi-matt then. You probably misunderstood the mixing instructions. I would say that 1 minute and 10 minutes of shaking would both be thoroughly mixing the paint. If you let the paint bottle sit for few days, then shook it up probably using like 10 or 20 shakes (not a full minute!), you would end up with a less flat finish. The flattening agent settles down on the bottom. If you don't fully mix it back into the paint, you end up with less flat finish. Also, any flat finsh is prone to what you call "autowither". That is just a nature of flat paints. And more flat it is the more prone it will be to it. It is caused either by the oils from your finger getting deposited on the surface (making it shiny) or by actually physically removing the surface roughness which makes the paint flat. If you were to look ar the surface of flat paint under magnification, it is very rough. If you remove that roughness, it gets shinier. Peteski There have been a lot of comments on "shaking" the bottle to mix the paint. Personally, I think stirring is a far better way. I can definitely say that you can shake a "tin" of Humbrol till the cows come home and still improve it with stirring! Also, shaking tends to aerate the paint and, although I can't quote the source or swear to its accuracy, I've heard that shaking is not good for acrylic paints. MB > From: "Peter W." <peteski@my-deja.com> > Organization: http://groups.google.com [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Peteski >you can shake a "tin" of Humbrol till the cows come home and still improve >it with stirring! Too true! I'm not a big fan of stirring paint as, like Tim Taylor, I want "more power" motorization and that winds up a splashy mess. If I've got a paint that doesn' t want to mix well I stick a bb or, even better, a tiny hex nut in it and set it on my case tumbler for about ten minutes. Awesome! Thirty year old paint looks like it just came out of the factory. You can also use an orbital sander for this. Cheers, The Keeper >>you can shake a "tin" of Humbrol till the cows come home and still improve >>it with stirring! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cheers, > The Keeper Years ago I saw a paint rack that was motorized. It was sort of a drum-shaped thing. You hooked the bottles on via their tops. The drum slowly revolved. I'd think that would help. To cut down stirring time I take the paints I will use on a project and keep them top down on bench till I mix them. The problem with that rack as I see it is today there are such a variety of paint bottle sizes, with caps of different sizes, so don't know how well such a rack would work, but I have been tempted now and then to build one. I have way too many paint bottles to have such a rack. It would be huge! Maybe I could put my entire paint cabinet on a vibrating base? :-) But this is getting off-topic here... Peteski > I have way too many paint bottles to have such a rack. It would be > huge! > Maybe I could put my entire paint cabinet on a vibrating base? > :-) > But this is getting off-topic here... > Peteski The rack I remember held like 30 to 40 bottles. One could just use the paints for the current project. I never use that many on one project. > > I have way too many paint bottles to have such a rack. It would be > > huge! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The rack I remember held like 30 to 40 bottles. One could just use the > paints for the current project. I never use that many on one project. While that is true, this type of racks are designed to hold *all* of your paints. That way you would never have to shake or stir another bottle! Woudln't that be nice? Peteski >>you can shake a "tin" of Humbrol till the cows come home and still improve >>it with stirring! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Cheers, >The Keeper and an electic jig saw. shake it, baby! > There have been a lot of comments on "shaking" the bottle to mix the > paint. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > source or swear to its accuracy, I've heard that shaking is not good for > acrylic paints. :) Regardless of mixing / shaking alhorithm / problems - I posted this message just to summarize 'flatness' differences in acrylic paints which turned out to be big. Maciek |
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