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Model Forum / General / Models / March 2006Osprey MV-22
Got the new Popular Science today (April 06 issue). There was a 2 page blurb on the MV-22. Is the Italeri Ospery a reasonable representation of this aircraft? Also, there was a nice 2 page color picture of the cockpit for the Airbus A380. All in all, it is one of Popular Science better offerings with several other interesting items........ > Got the new Popular Science today (April 06 issue). There was a 2 page > blurb on the MV-22. Is the Italeri Ospery a reasonable representation > of this aircraft? Also, there was a nice 2 page color picture of the > cockpit for the Airbus A380. All in all, it is one of Popular Science > better offerings with several other interesting items........ Osprey = Marine killer. As in - you put Marines in it, the Osprey takes off, the Osprey crashes and burns, no survivors. > Osprey = Marine killer. As in - you put Marines in it, the Osprey > takes off, the Osprey crashes and burns, no survivors. You might want to do a little more research before you post such inanities and expose your ignorance of complex technical matters to the entire world. Jack > Osprey = Marine killer. As in - you put Marines in it, the Osprey takes > off, the Osprey crashes and burns, no survivors. Well, doesn't THAT tell you a lot about the model. Thanks so much for the review... Frank Kranick >Osprey = Marine killer. As in - you put Marines in it, the Osprey takes >off, the Osprey crashes and burns, no survivors. You can't be serious. Do you really think that the Marine Corps would risk its most precious asset in an inferior transport aircraft? Do you think it would be better to trust Marines' lives to the aging CH-46 fleet instead?  SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." >> Osprey = Marine killer. As in - you put Marines in it, the Osprey >> takes off, the Osprey crashes and burns, no survivors. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Do you think it would be better to trust Marines' lives to the aging > CH-46 fleet instead? Dear God no! The CH-46 is the scariest piece of sh.t I've ever had the misfortune to fly in. When I got on board the aircraft, there were large pools of oil on the deck of the cargo bay. I couldn't tell whether it was leaked hydraulic fluid or leaked engine oil. Turns out it was a mixture of both. I was quite concerned and I expressed those concerns to the loadmaster. He simply opened a new bag of chickenshit and cleaned up the mess with it. I continued to express my concern and was assured that everything was perfectly normal. He showed me a stock of cans of engine oil and hyd fluid and told me "we'll fill it up again at the next stop". It seems that as long as the crew can see that it is leaking, they are reasonably happy. Once it stops leaking, they become concerned because then it is empty. Thankfully the flight only lasted 20 minutes and I made the return flight in a Puma. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. > It seems that as > long as the crew can see that it is leaking, they are reasonably happy. Once > it stops leaking, they become concerned because then it is empty. This reminds me of something I learned at aircraft mechanics school: "The only system that doesn't leak is an empty one" ;^) Martin >> It seems that as >> long as the crew can see that it is leaking, they are reasonably happy. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Martin A statement true even of the marvels created by God's own hand, including his greatest - the woman. Why the only opening on mine that doesn't leak is her ears; and that's because she chatters so much they're pulling vaccum off her throat most of the time. ;-) WmB >> It seems that as >> long as the crew can see that it is leaking, they are reasonably [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This reminds me of something I learned at aircraft mechanics school: > "The only system that doesn't leak is an empty one" That's true. We used to say that about the Harrier. But at least with the Harrier we could get it into a condition where it was leak free *before* the mission, even if it did a wonderful impersonation of a sieve after getting its wheels back on the deck. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >> It seems that as >> long as the crew can see that it is leaking, they are reasonably happy. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Martin As A former USAF Crew Chief on F-4Es if you ever saw your jet with out numerous puddles of oil, hydraulic fluid or fuel you had better start servicing all your systems >>Got the new Popular Science today (April 06 issue). There was a 2 page >>blurb on the MV-22. Is the Italeri Ospery a reasonable representation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Osprey = Marine killer. As in - you put Marines in it, the Osprey takes > off, the Osprey crashes and burns, no survivors. Most military aircraft are less safe than civil ones. The higher the performance, or the more cutting the advance, the higher the fatality rate. When AV-8B was in its early years they crashed a lot of them, and got the same kind of press- nearly cancelled the program. F-4 had a bad safety record for a number of years. Remember the 104 crashes in Europe? The V-22 is a big advance in technology, and the crash rate doesn't surprise me. >>>Got the new Popular Science today (April 06 issue). There was a 2 page >>>blurb on the MV-22. Is the Italeri Ospery a reasonable representation [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > The V-22 is a big advance in technology, and the crash rate doesn't > surprise me. There were very few aircraft, in any nation's history, that did *not* suffer a series of tragedies in its "testing period". The B-17 is a prime example. The prototype found its demise in a fiery, fatal crash. It's first "real" field deployment, (with the British) was pretty much a disaster. SignatureGreg Heilers Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.2 (2.6.13) AUS ..... He gets it from your side of the family, you know. No monsters on my side. -- Homer Simpson Treehouse of Horror II I will have to try and pick that one up some time this week. The Osprey or atleast the idea and concept of the VTOL has been around for quite some time now. Yessss there have been several crashes ALL of them ''Bad''. When is the last time you remember hearing of a ''Good'' crash anyway. It's a tremendously complicated piece of machinery. Flying and acting just Like a Helicopter as well as a Plane and moving from one style of flight right into the other. You should know the Helo people really don't like the whole concept behind the Osprey at all. No Not one Tiny Little Bit. It could (if it starts working) replace lots of orders for helicopters It's lovingly called ''The Sky Pig'' by the ones who Hate it...... LOL http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep1999/9909084b.jpg ... Carl .......... , > I will have to try and pick that one up some time this week. The Osprey > or atleast the idea and concept of the VTOL has been around for quite [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > , My cousin lovingly calls it a 'steady paycheck'. ;) Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. The Army's first aviator, Thomas Selfridge, died in the crash of a wright biplane in 1908, the first man killed in a powered heavier than air flying machine, and also the first casualty in military aviation. http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/thomaset.htm Hap Arnold, one of the Army's first aviators almost gave up flying after his first major crash flying a wright machine. He was taught how to fly by the wrights, and eventually they helped ease him back into flying. Dozens of army pilots died in the abortive air mail fiasco of the 30's Dick Bong, america's WWII ace of aces died testing a YP-80 Boeing test pilot Eddie Allen died testing early B-29's and Glen Edwards died flying the YB-49 flying wing. Military aviation by it's nature is hazardous. Military test aviation even more so. Osprey is unlikly to replace too many helicopters because of the cost/benefit ratio. It will replace some but since its new technologies allow for new operational capabilities, it will be used in a different role than most helicopters. MV-22 40.1M unit cost H-60 5.9M unit cost >Osprey is unlikly to replace too many helicopters >because of the cost/benefit ratio. It will replace some >but since its new technologies allow for new operational >capabilities, it will be used in a different role than most >helicopters. Well, its main use will be to move Marines to, from and around the battlefield, replacing the CH-46 in that role. >MV-22 40.1M unit cost >H-60 5.9M unit cost It's not meant to replace the H-60 which is predominantly an Army aircraft anyway. SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." >>Osprey is unlikly to replace too many helicopters >>because of the cost/benefit ratio. It will replace some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, its main use will be to move Marines to, from and around > the battlefield, replacing the CH-46 in that role. Exactly, initially it will be replacing a limited number of airframes but mark my words over time its new capabilities will allow for new mission profiles not envisioned at the outset, profiles that only Osprey can perform because of its unique features and abilities. I suspect that in time its maintenance costs may cause the marines to rethink their deployment for such pedestrian tasks and it may revert back to the less expensive helicopter for some of the tasks it currently envisions for Osprey. I could be wrong. >>MV-22 40.1M unit cost >>H-60 5.9M unit cost > > It's not meant to replace the H-60 which is predominantly an Army > aircraft anyway. Agreed, I was just using H-60 as an "average" cost for a "basic" military helicopter. I don't think too many guys making helicopters have much to fear from Osprey. Now its follow on, who knows. >...initially it will be replacing a limited number of airframes >but mark my words over time its new capabilities will allow for new >mission profiles not envisioned at the outset, profiles that only Osprey >can perform because of its unique features and abilities. Given budget constraints I don't see many more than the already-projected buy unless foreign sales kick in. >I suspect that >in time its maintenance costs may cause the marines to rethink their >deployment for such pedestrian tasks... I'd hardly call the transport of combat troops 'pedestrian'. >...and it may revert back to >the less expensive helicopter for some of the tasks it currently >envisions for Osprey. I could be wrong. Maybe, but no mere helicopter has the range, speed, and payload capability of the Osprey given the size of the ships it will be flying from. >>>MV-22 40.1M unit cost >>>H-60 5.9M unit cost [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Agreed, I was just using H-60 as an "average" cost for a "basic" >military helicopter. As I mentioned above, the Osprey is much more than a mere helicopter. >I don't think too many guys making helicopters have much to fear >from Osprey. I wonder if the autogyro folks ever felt that way about those new-fangled helicopters... ;-p SignatureAl Superczynski, MFE, IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968 My "From" address is munged - use 'modeleral (at) swbell (dot) net' to respond via email. Check out my want lists and eBay listings at "Al's Place": http://www.network54.com/realm/modeleral/ "Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to, and the critics will flame you every time." "Jeff Barringer" <jeffb@pethobbyist.com> wrote in > snip >MV-22 40.1M unit cost > H-60 5.9M unit cost I'm amazed that the Osprey is that cheap. As complex as it is, I would think it would cost far more than 40.1M. What a deal! Give me 2 please. Doug Wagner > "Jeff Barringer" <jeffb@pethobbyist.com> wrote in > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Doug Wagner Its not the cost of the razor but the blades where they get you. > I will have to try and pick that one up some time this week. The Osprey > or atleast the idea and concept of the VTOL has been around for quite [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > ... Carl .......... Hi, My son flies these things and also instructs. He says they are safe, He is writing operational stuff now, for deployment. TLM > , My son flies these things and instructs. He says they are safe. He flew the Stallions before. He is now writing operational plans for deployment. TLM I'm not an air dude but we are getting a bunch of them in Albuquerque real soon (Kirtland AFB), been all over the TV lately. In fact, IIRC the 1st one arrived yesterday. If they have a problem we'll know locally in the near future. John > My son flies these things and instructs. He says they are safe. He flew > the Stallions before. He is now writing operational plans for > deployment. > TLM > I'm not an air dude but we are getting a bunch of them in Albuquerque > real soon (Kirtland AFB), been all over the TV lately. In fact, IIRC > the 1st one arrived yesterday. If they have a problem we'll know > locally in the near future. You mean when one ends up in your back garden? It's like the old joke... Q How does a German get himself a Starfighter? A He buys a field and waits. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >>I'm not an air dude but we are getting a bunch of them in Albuquerque >>real soon (Kirtland AFB), been all over the TV lately. In fact, IIRC [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > A He buys a field and waits. Or makes a nosedive into the Rio Grande<G>. It'll be nice to see something different flying about. During the summer I take one of my grandaughters with me and we go eat a burger & goodies while watching aircraft at the airport at night. She's almost 5 and when she saw & heard her first military jet after dark go and saw the flame from the afterburner she was hooked. This will give her something to see during the light hours. "Grandpa, lets go to the airport and watch the planes!" John > Got the new Popular Science today (April 06 issue). There was a 2 page > blurb on the MV-22. Is the Italeri Ospery a reasonable representation > of this aircraft? Also, there was a nice 2 page color picture of the > cockpit for the Airbus A380. All in all, it is one of Popular Science > better offerings with several other interesting items........ I'm not an expert on the Osprey but all the information I have gathered indicates that the current Italeri Osprey kits (both 1/48 and 1/72) depict a V-22 Osprey prototype. I believe Italeri is preparing a revised 1/72 kit that depicts production aircraft. There are a couple of articles on Hyperscale that detail the changes need to make a production aircraft if you are so inclined. Cheers Ultan Iam not sure, but I think I have seen a 1/48 Italeri Osprey kit in a hobby shop the other day with a remark on the box something like "upgraded" or "new tooling"....something like that. That was here in Germany. Ingo >Got the new Popular Science today (April 06 issue). There was a 2 page >blurb on the MV-22. Is the Italeri Ospery a reasonable representation >of this aircraft? Also, there was a nice 2 page color picture of the >cockpit for the Airbus A380. All in all, it is one of Popular Science >better offerings with several other interesting items........ *time is an enemy* Hallo Ingo Im having trouble uploading images to my website, i was going to put a lot of me on stood next to some Fitters, hope to soon. The 32nd Mig21 F13 is coming along steady, fusalarge and wings done, just filling and sanding. I was due to goto Germany end of Apr, but now its delayed until mid May, im back off to that airbase as now they have a Bronco, the pig ugly US 2 prop plane, Anetts father saved a local newspaper article showing one being deliverd, only a small museum but good. > Iam not sure, but I think I have seen a 1/48 Italeri Osprey kit in a > hobby shop the other day with a remark on the box something like [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > *time is an enemy* Hi, with a little luck my Fitter will be finished this weekend - it's such a lot of work this Kopro kit... Next is a Tamiya Me262 that is supposed to nearly built itself...I need something like that after all the Fitter-trouble... Nordholz is a rather small museum as well, but very interesting as they have nearly everything the Marineflieger ever had in their inventory (so they should have a Fitter from MFG28 instead of JBG-77...but it's only the modex no. and wing badge that make the difference - no, not true: JBG77 aircraft have only 2 chaff/flare dispensers, MFG planes have four.) They have there: Hawker Sea Hawk F-104G Fairey Gannet (!) just for example - transport and helicopters too. Ingo >Hallo Ingo > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> *time is an enemy* *time is an enemy* Ingo I have put some images up, i had to shrink a lot and still have many more but no space left...... http://www.julianhales.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/main.htm > Hi, with a little luck my Fitter will be finished this weekend - it's > such a lot of work this Kopro kit... [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > *time is an enemy* Hi Jules, thanks for all the pics! Those aircraft are badly in need of a new paint job - and more, I guess. Interesting, that the Su-22 has a full external load. That museum seems to be worth a visit - alone for all the aircraft on display. Cool fuel truck also. That Nordholz Fitter-K is in a similar poor state. Ingo ps: I liked clicking your head *g* >Ingo >I have put some images up, i had to shrink a lot and still have many more [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> >> *time is an enemy* *time is an enemy* > Hi Jules, > thanks for all the pics! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Ingo > ps: I liked clicking your head *g* Hi Ingo I ran out of memory for my website so that is the only pictures i could put on........( have 1000 more It maybe a small museuom but imagine a English guy standing with Migs and Sukios's!!!! Thy now have the Bronco 2 prop plane. Im sorry my written German is not very good, i speak better German ( but stilll not good) but i try. It was funny as i smoke 24/7 but all the signs and warnings said no flames! I lived in Cottbus but i did not know of the airbase there. I belive they have Hind Helo's. I know have a differant hair style. When i flew to Berlin, or Prague etc i would get in lots of fights because u am English. I like E Germany. I have soon to write a article for Deutsch IPMS. Of the Trumpeter 32nd Mig 21-F13. I make the same as the one you can see me in the pictures. The father of ANett, the girl you saw in the images, he told me he drove the wagon/trucks of DDR many years ago. > >Ingo > >I have put some images up, i had to shrink a lot and still have many more [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > *time is an enemy* Forgot to say, if you wanna come to England (and not been before) im sure i can find some good old English jets.......warm beer and fat girls ( and good football!!!) I goto Germany often and i like it, well most of it, but your more than welcome to come here and visit and have a few days or a week.. no probs, the only spare bedroom i have is the model making room. More plastic that Pam Anderson!!!!! > > Hi Jules, > > thanks for all the pics! [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > > > *time is an enemy* *g* been there a few times and have seen RAF museum Hendon twice (thats a very good museum!) In '95 I traveled southern England by car (those single track lanes...) and it seemed there was an BoB airfield every few miles, some with smaller museums too. I have not attended one yet, but I envy England for all the airshows from spring to fall. There are nearly none here in Germany...especially after the Ramstein disaster in '88 or when that was. (Frecce tricolori midair collisions) Don't know when I will come to England (or elsewhere) again...I am a bit short on money these days...:-) But thanks for the offer. By the way, I have my own "more plastic than Pam Anderson room" here...*g* Ingo >Forgot to say, if you wanna come to England (and not been before) im sure i >can find some good old English jets.......warm beer and fat girls ( and good [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] >> > >> > *time is an enemy* *time is an enemy* > *g* been there a few times and have seen RAF museum Hendon twice > (thats a very good museum!) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > way, I have my own "more plastic than Pam Anderson room" here...*g* > Ingo I lived 1 mile away fro Hendon 15 years ago, but never went, i spent all my time chasing girls instead. I like UK airhows but the weather isnt too good. I remember i went to one on the eve of the 94 world cup and the Luftwaffe had painted on the tail of the F-4 '94 champions world cup' I laughed so much and told them so!!!! > >Forgot to say, if you wanna come to England (and not been before) im sure i > >can find some good old English jets.......warm beer and fat girls ( and good [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > > *time is an enemy* Hi Jules, what's with your written German? "Bitte klick meinen Kopf" is perfectly right. But I have my own troubles with articles for hyperscale that I do every once in a while... Yes, it's a bit strange to stand next to those planes - this country once considered us the enemy...even if we were german too. Unthinkable to see an NVA Mig or Sukhoi from close back in the 80s..or from far away. >Hi Ingo > [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] >> >> *time is an enemy* *time is an enemy* > Hi Jules, > what's with your written German? "Bitte klick meinen Kopf" is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Unthinkable to see an NVA Mig or Sukhoi from close back in the 80s..or > from far away. My written English isnt too good either,. which doesnt help me with better German! I had a great day at Rothenburg, Anetts father took many pitcures and when i go next time i will go as a modeller in mind, lots of good close up shots of the important bits. I have many Mig21 books but not one shows the correct positioning for the airbrakes open and pistons. > >Hi Ingo > > [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > > *time is an enemy* |
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