 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion Groups General ModelsRailroadsRocketsRadio Controlled Air ModelsHelicoptersLand ModelsWater ModelsModelGeeks.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Model Forum / General / Models / June 2006Question about cost of models.
How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less than $40 (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make a 1/32 anything for less than $100 (this guaranteeing I will probably not buy one)? I really like the SBD (and the TBF) but I can buy 3 Stukas for what they costs. And frankly the old Matchbox SBD isn't that bad, particularly since the Trumpy one should drive the price down even further. The Wildcat seems reasonable, the 262 and Corsair (prop one) almost so but the rest???? Frank > How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less than $40 > (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make a 1/32 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Frank Parts count...but I would think that the labor market costs would offset that. But we keep buyin' 'em. So they'll keep pricin' 'em.  Signature- Rufus >> How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less >> than $40 (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > But we keep buyin' 'em. So they'll keep pricin' 'em. SBD 1/2 227 parts 139.95 SBD 3/4 257 parts 139.95 SBD 5 250 parts 139.95 Stuka 216 parts 63.95 Twice as much for what? Frank >>>How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less >>>than $40 (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Frank > Brings me back to - we keep buyin' em... Signature- Rufus > How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less than $40 > (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make a 1/32 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Frank Parts count is a big factor. Hasegawa kits like the Stuka, 109G/Ks, and Ki-84s are relatively simple kits. You don't get weapons options, dropped flaps, completely detailed engines, working control surfaces, etc. As noted, similar simple kits by Trumpeter like the MiG-3 and Wildcat are reasonably priced. However, aircraft like the A-7, Su-27, MiG-29 and F-105 are much larger, more complex and detailed, and come with multiple weapon sprues. In fact, some of these kits have more parts just for ordnance to hang under the wings than Hasegawa has for an entire kit. Dave I haven't seen many 'cheap' kits from Trumpeter. I think they're stickin' it to the bourgeois capitalist pigs. JMHO. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > I haven't seen many 'cheap' kits from Trumpeter. I think they're > stickin' it to the bourgeois capitalist pigs. JMHO. Their armor runs $20-35 and they have a few cheap ships. 1/350 Liberty and Sullivans both $30, the former worth it the latter worth $5 at best. 1/700 carriers approx. $30, don't if they're worth it. 1/350 North Carolina is $130 MSRP but is really a $40 kit since all the armament is junk and there's a lot of correcting to do. Hornet has major hull shape problems, the 1/350 Essexes are OK though. The Lexington has some fit and enginerring issues but above the flight deck is completely wrong. I shudder to think what mess they'll make of the DE they're releasing. > I haven't seen many 'cheap' kits from Trumpeter. I think they're > stickin' it to the bourgeois capitalist pigs. JMHO. > > Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. We gotta remember what we learned in economics class at school. Remember elastic demand vs inelastic demand? Just like gasoline. If we are willing to pay ANY price for something, soon the price will go there. Check the parts count and also the otherwise very expensive etched brass and resin parts often found in Trumpeter kits that are optional extras (if you can find them for the other brand kits) refer to the Trumpeter kits and (Lionroar amongst other) accessories for Hasegawa kits at www.acehobby.co.nz and when checking prices deduct the GST and refer to exchange rate tables. regards Alan T. Alan's Hobby, Model & RC Web Links http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~atong/ ................................................................. > How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less than $40 > (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make a 1/32 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Frank > How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less than $40 > (guaranteeing that I buy at least one and Trumpter can't make a 1/32 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Frank === Why do they charge what they charge? To put it in a nutshell, and be blunt about it, because they can!!! Ray Austin, TX === > === > Why do they charge what they charge? To put it in a nutshell, and be blunt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Austin, TX > === Hey, for all of us in US, we are a capitalistic country that expouses how great capitalism IS! We can't get upset then when companies in other countries catch on :-) >> === >> Why do they charge what they charge? To put it in a nutshell, and be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > how great capitalism IS! We can't get upset then when companies in > other countries catch on :-) Yes but there is something called a price point in capitalism. It's a point where the quantity sold vice the markup balances. I believe they'd sell a lot more if it was priced much lower. The Stuka doesn't seem a lot different from the SBD, 208 vs 227. Yeah it bums me that I won't buy the SBD or TBF (unless I find an extraordinary deal). But it does seem they would sell quite a few more if they lowered the prices to a more competitive level. But hey it ain't a neccessity. Frank SignatureTitle 18 > Chapter 115 > § 2381 Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States <<SBD 1/2 227 parts 139.95 SBD 3/4 257 parts 139.95 SBD 5 250 parts 139.95 >> All I know is, for that kind of money ,I could buy at least 5 or 6 other kits to add to the huge pile that I'm never gonna build. > <<SBD 1/2 227 parts 139.95 > SBD 3/4 257 parts 139.95 > SBD 5 250 parts 139.95 >> > All I know is, > for that kind of money ,I could buy at least 5 or 6 other kits to > add to the huge pile that I'm never gonna build. ...which is certainly another way to look at it. I'd rather spend more money on fewer kits that I really want, and may also actually get around to building before my demise. Signature- Rufus > Yes but there is something called a price point in capitalism. It's a point > where the quantity sold vice the markup balances. I believe they'd sell a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Frank I fully agree. There have been many kits I did not buy 'cause I thought they were overpriced. We as consumers need to realize that ultimately we have the final say over prices. If we stop buying kits that are too expensive, the prices will eventually come down. Those firms that continually overprice their kits will go out of business. Some firms hope to make money by selling a few kits at huge markup, others by selling many kits at lower markup. We ultimately decide who stays in business and who does not. Also a lot of Trumpeter kits have been marked down after the next "generation" appears, the TBF-1C was almost 1.000 DKK before and now I bought onr for less than 700DKK - still a lot, but also a big kit with lots of details. SignatureClaus Gustafsen Strandby Denmark mail me at claus@gustafsen.nu See my modeling at www.gustafsen.nu >> Yes but there is something called a price point in capitalism. It's a >> point where the quantity sold vice the markup balances. I believe they'd [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > kits at lower markup. We ultimately decide who stays in business and who > does not. Signature---------------------------------------- Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere. Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at få 1393 spam-mails. Betalende brugere får ikke denne besked i deres e-mails. Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: http://www.spamfighter.com/lda Also a lot of Trumpeter kits have been marked down after the next "generation" appears, the TBF-1C was almost 1.000 DKK before and now I bought onr for less than 700DKK - still a lot, but also a big kit with lots of details. SignatureClaus Gustafsen Strandby Denmark mail me at claus@gustafsen.nu See my modeling at www.gustafsen.nu >> Yes but there is something called a price point in capitalism. It's a >> point where the quantity sold vice the markup balances. I believe they'd [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > kits at lower markup. We ultimately decide who stays in business and who > does not. Don wrote (in part) >If we stop buying kits that are too expensive, the prices will eventually come down. Those firms that >continually overprice their kits will go out of business. Good idea Don, but no cigar! If this process worked as advertised, then Mach 2 and Combat Models would have been out of business a long time ago. I think all that really happens is the smart ones don't buy the kit, but at the inflated prices they sell enough to make money regardless of us. Like many, I find the current prices of kits to be almost beyond belief, but then I find most current prices that way. Maybe another way of looking at it is to take the hours of enjoyment (??) a kit provides and divide it by the cost of the kit. I suspect the resulting hourly cost of the kit would compare very well with other forms of entertainment. Now the real head shrinking question we all should try to answer is why do we buy kits and just stuff them into the stash with no real plan to build them? At my age I have no business buying any more kits as I have many times more than I will ever get built. But so far that has not stopped my buying more. Do you suppose it is a bit like the woman's shoe thing? Norm There's probably a better chance that a woman will wear all of her shoes at least once. ;) Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > Don wrote (in part) > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I think all that really happens is the smart ones don't buy the kit, but at > the inflated prices they sell enough to make money regardless of us. I didn't mean if one or two people stop buying. If MOST people stop buying them, however, that would have an effect. One theory of pricing is that if you find people willing to buy at a given price, that price is not too high. There may be a sweet spot, that maximizes profits, but the curve is gentle, and one can still make profit on either side of the sweet spot. In a product with a reasonably inelastic demand, it requires a LOT of people who refuse to buy at higher price. That is, we have to turn it around and make inelastic demand become elasic. If we modelers support inelastic demand, it is, collectively, our own fault, not the manufacturers. Of course, if we get too cheap, then well crafted kits with lots of parts will become unmarketable, and we'll have to settle for the kinds of kits we had in the late fifties and the sixties. > Of course, if we get too cheap, then well crafted kits with lots of > parts will become unmarketable, and we'll have to settle for the kinds > of kits we had in the late fifties and the sixties. I'll happi;y pay $35-45 for current 1/35 DML armor kits with all the extra goodies they contain and the quality of the kits. I will not pay $40+ for a 1/48 Tamiya airplane. Trumpeter needs to get their fit, parts enginerring, finish quality and detail back up to an acceptable level before I shell out anymore money for a 1/350 ship by them (resin is cheaper in the long run when it comes to Trumpy's last three USN kits). Hey Mr. Ghost: The Halinski 1/33 SBD is a brand new cardstock model designed with the latest CAD/CAM/CAE technology. See prototype build pictures at ...... http://www.halinski.com.pl/indexgb.php?link=8 Cost .... about $15 I think .... 1,700 parts. Do a good job of it, and you have a replica equal to if not better then the Trumpeter model. If a few of you plastic modelers started buying/building/contesting the Polish paper models, maybe Trumpeter might get more realistic on their pricing. I like the paper models because they come in magazine format with marvelously bright 4-color offset printing. Since all the painting is done for you, the sub-assemblies look as they will when the model is finished. The current research accuracy of these models, with their paint schemes and weathering, is top notch. I suggest, Mr. Ghost, that you buy the Halinski SBD sight unseen, since the cost is so reasonable; and you can hardly go wrong financially. Hopefully you will also stop your whiny complaints. ..../V > How come Hasegawa can make a new Stuka in 1/32 and sell it for less than > $40 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Frank >Hey Mr. Ghost: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I guess if you were building plastic you would be a big fan of the prepainted and snap together kits. I'm usually amused by the paper modelers that are so proud of how good their "model" looks. After all, they did pick out the printer that did the paint work, or bought the package that had really nice colors preprinted in all the right places. Before you start slamming someone about model building maybe you should actually build then paint something. I'm happy for you that you can cut and glue that cardstock. And truthfully, I've seen some paper models that are really nicely done and look good. But it's not in the same category as plastic. There is a reason most contests are judging prepainted plastic and paper (when they even allow it) in different ways than other models. It's because the paint is not the work of the modeler. And the paper guys that want to put their paper stuff in with the plastic can't seem to understand why it's apples and oranges. It seems the judges can't seem to see through the paper canopy to see the non exsistant interior detail. Anyway, good luck with your paper but don't put down plastic modelers, about anything. In the late 60's I worked after school in a gas station. I remember gasoline at 19.9 cents a gallon. An AMT 3 in 1 kit was about 3 or 4 dollars. Gas is now $3 per gallon. That is an increase of about 95%. That would make that same AMT kit about $35 to $40 if we use the same logic. When you look at the price of a kit, you can't just look at the box and the plastic. You have to think about the cost of operating a store, paying the help, paying the insurance, utilities, etc., not to mention the cost of freighting the item from god knows where to the distributor and than to the store. Now add in the cost of engineering and production and don't forget about the 10 times the tax man steps on the deal before you even buy it. That $100 kit starts to sound cheap. Welcome to the 21st Century..................... > In the late 60's I worked after school in a gas station. I remember > gasoline at 19.9 cents a gallon. An AMT 3 in 1 kit was about 3 or 4 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the deal before you even buy it. That $100 kit starts to sound cheap. > Welcome to the 21st Century..................... Gents: I have stumbled across a September 23, 1939 issue of the Boston Post newspaper. The prices on stuff in the adds would make all of you SICK!!! Bill Shuey > Gents: > > I have stumbled across a September 23, 1939 issue of the Boston Post > newspaper. The prices on stuff in the adds would make all of you SICK!!! > > Bill Shuey So would the wages. > In the late 60's I worked after school in a gas station. I remember > gasoline at 19.9 cents a gallon. An AMT 3 in 1 kit was about 3 or 4 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the deal before you even buy it. That $100 kit starts to sound cheap. > Welcome to the 21st Century..................... Government price index shows an inflation factor from 1960 to 2005 of 6.67. I have done a detailed study on model kit prices based on old model magazines. What I find is that while the cheapest kits have just about hovered around the inflation factor, there are a lot more expensive kits. That is, in the fifties and sixties there was not that big of a range in prices. Today there is a big range between cheapest and most expensive. But on the other hand, the kits in the fifties,and to a lessor extent the sixties, were rather simple, like today's cheapest kits. There WERE no really detailed high-parts-count kits then to skew the price statistics. The government doesn't count food, fuel, utilities, and medical care in their inflation factor. I don't know about anyone else but the real expenses that effect peoples lives are "all of the above". I put little stock in what the government says. I do know that gas was 20 cents a gallon and a McDonalds meal was 15 cents for a burger 10 cents for frys and 20 cents for a milkshake. They advertised it as 45 cents for a 3 course meal. I also know for sure that the people who are involved in manufacturing, distributing, and retailing models have to do "all of the above" to live. Ask someone on a fixed Social Security income about the governments inflation factor. You are likely to get a very large belly laugh. > The government doesn't count food, fuel, utilities, and medical care in > their inflation factor. This is why I say the Government's statements on the economy are just so much Bull----! Bill Shuey > The government doesn't count food, fuel, utilities, and medical care in > their inflation factor. I don't know about anyone else but the real [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > income about the governments inflation factor. You are likely to get a > very large belly laugh. Hmmm. I thought that food and fuel costs WERE included in the CPI. Don't know about medical costs nor utilities. Now, the particular "basket" of food used has caused controversy, but I believe they do account for at least some food items. >>Hey Mr. Ghost: >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > non exsistant interior detail. Anyway, good luck with your paper but > don't put down plastic modelers, about anything. I concur. It's like you've only done half the work. My son had asked about putting a prepainted kit in the local contest. I told him no! the essence of the hobby is the complete kit building and painting. I think the skill is in the whole package, the paper models and the prepaints just don't make any sense at all to me. Frank SignatureTitle 18 > Chapter 115 > § 2381 Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States Vessticles, Vessticles, Vessticles; even when you're making a modeling related post that, on the surface seems relatively calm and reasoned, the true you can't be stifled entirely and you end it with a cheap shot. And you wonder why so many on RMS can't stand you. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it. My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- > Hey Mr. Ghost: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> >> Frank > Hey Mr. Ghost: > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >> Frank 1) I don't do paper models. 2) You're a whiny socialist, why aren't you complaining about the big companies ripping off the little consumer. maybe you should lobby your leftist moron politicaisn for a subsidy to even out the playing field. 3) Piss up a rope. SignatureTitle 18 > Chapter 115 > § 2381 Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.