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Model Forum / General / Models / August 2006Water Warning-O/T but important
Hi Troops: If any of you have teenage kids in the family sit them down and have a little heart to heart talk with them soon, about moving water. Many years ago my Great Uncle, who was an old U.S. Navy "Hard Hat" diver responded to a remark I made about going for a swim in the creek that ran near his house with an old Navy Man's lecture, the type he used to give to wet nosed recruits. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon, moving water has additional weight or energy because it is moving, they call that Kinetic Energy. The faster it is moving the more energy or weight it has. 8 inches of fast moving water can knock you off your feet and as little as 16 inches can drown you. I bring this up because here in the East we have had a series of big rain storms and in the last week four teen age boys have drowned here in Maryland because they thought going for a swim in some fast moving stream looked like fun. Latest one is the son of an acquaintance. Teen agers haven't developed the skills to estimate risk, adults need to enlighten them. Bill Shuey who hates funerals > Hi Troops: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > who hates funerals > You can't tell teenagers anything. They know it all and believe that only bad things happen to others. After all, they are invincible.  SignatureBill In Hamptonburgh, NY To Email, remove the double zeroes after 'at' I suppose most teenagers do they think they know everything. However that does not relieve a parent or legal guardian of the responsibility to provide them with information that may save their lives. I thought I was invincible when I was in High School as well. However, after I went to the funeral of a friend who drowned while swimming in a local quarry on the 4th of July 1963, I realized that, perhaps there was a slight chance I didn't know everything and it might possible be capable of doing something that might cause me or someone else, harm. Talk with your kids about stuff that can cause them harm. They will listen, even when they argue with you or pretend they aren't. Thank you, Bill S, for bringing that up. SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it. My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- >> Hi Troops: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > You can't tell teenagers anything. They know it all and believe that only > bad things happen to others. After all, they are invincible. > I suppose most teenagers do they think they know everything. However that > does not relieve a parent or legal guardian of the responsibility to provide [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > even when they argue with you or pretend they aren't. Thank you, Bill S, > for bringing that up. I realized I wasn't immortal after attending the funeral of my great grandfather at kindergarden age. Guess I never got to be a "genuine" teenager... We spend way too much time "protecting" kids and giving false impressions of carnage in the media, IMO. Don't just tell them how it is - show them. Kids really aren't as stupid as most "it takes a village" types would like you to believe. Signature- Rufus > We spend way too much time "protecting" kids and giving false > impressions of carnage in the media, IMO. Don't just tell them how it > is - show them. Kids really aren't as stupid as most "it takes a > village" types would like you to believe. The smart kids will figure it out on their own, the average kids will figure it out after seeing it firsthand, the terminally stupid never will firgure it out and those are the cause of the current "namby-pamby overprotective BS". I realized my mortality in 10th grade when one dumbass took his dad's car out for a joyride on what was then MD's most dangerous road, he wrapped it around a 5' diameter tree at about 80mph. > I suppose most teenagers do they think they know everything. However that > does not relieve a parent or legal guardian of the responsibility to provide [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > even when they argue with you or pretend they aren't. Thank you, Bill S, > for bringing that up. Reminds me of an old Mark Twain Quote: "When I was a youg man, my Father was the stupidest person around, I hated to even be seen with him in publec. When I reached the age of 21 I was amazed in how smart he had gotten!" > I realized my mortality in 10th grade when one dumbass took his dad's > car out for a joyride on what was then MD's most dangerous road, he [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> listen, even when they argue with you or pretend they aren't. Thank >> you, Bill S, for bringing that up. SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Teen > agers haven't developed the skills to estimate risk, adults need to > enlighten them. That's called Darwinism at work......... > Teen > > agers haven't developed the skills to estimate risk, adults need to > > enlighten them. > > That's called Darwinism at work......... Yes, and it works on adults too. We have several railroad underpasses on the north side of town. "Everybody" knows not to attempt them when it rains hard. Some folks had to be rescued last week from atop their car anyway. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. > Yes, and it works on adults too. We have several railroad underpasses > on the north side of town. "Everybody" knows not to attempt them when > it rains hard. Some folks had to be rescued last week from atop their > car anyway. Oh we have lots of those dumbasses too......personally I say let them drown if they're over 18 and that damned stupid. Emergency services have enough to deal with when it floods like that, rescuing the terminally stupid just encourages them. >> Teen >> > agers haven't developed the skills to estimate risk, adults need to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. that happens around mojave a lot too. mostly dumbass tourists but sometimes even the locals do it. The way I see it, that is Nature getting rid of the inept and burdens to society. If they were to survive, they would more than likely be a vegetable and we would have to pay $30,000 a month for life sustaining equipment and lawyer's fees. Just my 2¢ Ray Austin, TX === What causes a person to assume a medical vegetative state (as opposed to a couch potato vegetative state) is an injury suffered to the brain as a result of illness, deprivation of oxygen or injury, etc. The mere act of driving a car into a flooded area, then sitting atop the stalled and flooded car, while a sign of stupidity, does not, in itself, turn one onto a vegetable. Why would being rescued from such situation cause someone to be come a vegetable and require $30,000 a month to sustain life, etc? SignatureCheers: Bill Woodier In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it. My Home Page: http://www.bill-woodier.com/home.htm -- The way I see it, that is Nature getting rid of the inept and burdens to society. If they were to survive, they would more than likely be a vegetable and we would have to pay $30,000 a month for life sustaining equipment and lawyer's fees. Just my 2¢ Ray Austin, TX === > The mere act of driving a car into a flooded area, then sitting atop the > stalled and flooded car, while a sign of stupidity, does not, in itself, > turn one onto a vegetable. Why would being rescued from such situation > cause someone to be come a vegetable and require $30,000 a month to > sustain life, etc? The rescuing of the terminally stupid just reminds the rest of them that they too can not think for themselves and be bailed out. >> The mere act of driving a car into a flooded area, then sitting atop the >> stalled and flooded car, while a sign of stupidity, does not, in itself, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The rescuing of the terminally stupid just reminds the rest of them that >they too can not think for themselves and be bailed out. A fireman/rescue man lost his life AFTER saving 4 overgrown snot nosers,her in n.e.ohio.last week the heavy rains,before they went to the n.y./maryland area. > Hi Troops: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Bill Shuey > who hates funerals We (wife and I) just kayaked the New River few weeks back. I rolled it twice. Once in very shallow water and it was a bitch trying to recover and stand up in water not even up to my knees. Frank Hi Bill: Good point. And yet, all the responses to this message seem to be either ..... 1) People (teenagers) are dumb and deserve to die for being terminally stupidity 2) It is the fault of "it takes a village" type people (Huh?) Comment 2) has to be just about the most meaningless finger pecking ever seen in rec.models.scale. What is remarkable to me is the lack of comments about the possible root cause of all this flooding ...... namely, global warming. OK, so one flood does not prove, nor disprove, the legitimacy of the global warming threat. But one cannot ignore that we have had wacky weather for at least half a decade now; and every year it becomes hotter and the storms more severe. The consensus of just about EVERY scientist of note is that global warming is indeed a likely threat to us all. I have two eyes and can see the glaciers above Estes Park are shrinking, and that Colorado has suffered some really serious forest fire seasons of late. And the bark beetles are chomping through all our forests, killing swaths of trees (just take a drive through Grand Lake, Colorado, one of these days). Christ, it almost reached 100 degrees in Estes Park in June (about 98) and that has NEVER happened in my experience here at 8,000 feet in the Rockies. And yet, our way too vocal wingnut modelers can only add the most shallow of commentary to your OT observation. Not a single one of them can "connect-the-dots" of kids being swept from the rooftops of cars and cars spewing out carbon dioxide in massive quantities for just about the entire span of my life. Although "connect-the-dots" is one of W.'s favorite phrases, if ever there was a President incapable of doing just that to the degree of this moron, I don't remember. Please, go see Al Gore's movie. ...../Vess > Hi Troops: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Bill Shuey > who hates funerals >Hi Bill: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >....../Vess and now scientists have measured light sources to find dust and pollution have cut visible light by 20% over much of the globe. so if there was global warming, we would have a much colder climate. one climitoligist took the rare oppurtunity of the days after 9/11 when aircraft were grounded to measure how much lisght controls blocked.....a very large chunk of the 20%. so we clean up the air and roast, or clean up the heat and freeze. we are so f.cking clever we need to be protected from it. >>And the bark beetles are >>chomping through all our forests, killing swaths of trees Take it up with God. >>Please, go see Al Gore's movie. >> >>....../Vess Ambien works a lot better. > so we clean up the air and roast, or clean up the heat and > freeze. > we are so f.cking clever we need to be protected from it. Amen to that. Maybe the pagans were right all along and maybe we should give human sacrfice a second chance - I nominate V*ss. WmB >>>And the bark beetles are >>>chomping through all our forests, killing swaths of trees [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >WmB hate to tell you, but vess has some valid points. well, they aren't his, but they are being proven more and more. we would actually be about 2c warmer without air pollution. one of the nova scientists said a small nuclear warm may stop the heat. he said it tongue in cheek, but the modeling proved him out.... >>>>And the bark beetles are >>>>chomping through all our forests, killing swaths of trees [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> > hate to tell you, but vess has some valid points. FWIS, the only point V*ss has is the one at the top of his head. WmB >>>>>And the bark beetles are >>>>>chomping through all our forests, killing swaths of trees [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >WmB mostly. but even he isn't wrong all the time. >>>>And the bark beetles are >>>>chomping through all our forests, killing swaths of trees [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > stop the heat. he said it tongue in cheek, but the modeling > proved him out.... Bwahahaha - the modeling bore him out. Yeah right. The modeling community laughs with you. Seriously - models are vital in helping to explore areas of theory to obtain data that cannot (yet) be obtained by experiment (would take too long, are inaccessible, or would be too dangerous to obtain). But models cannot prove anything, they can only give data which has to be interpreted. If they show stuff that reality (or another model) determines differently, changes are made. We cannot model accurately, only with many many assumptions and simplifications. Hell, even supercomputers cannot model the interior of the Earth in 3-D, or take into account all spatial and time scales for coupled atmospheric and oceanic modeling (which again are still separate from interior Earth models). SignatureGernot Hassenpflug (gernot@rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp) Tel: +81 774 38-3866 JSPS Fellow (Rm.403, RISH, Kyoto Uni.) Fax: +81 774 31-8463 www.rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp/radar-group/members/gernot Mob: +81 90 39493924 >> In article <1Vdtg.6814$ye3.5569@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, " WmB" >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >for coupled atmospheric and oceanic modeling (which again are still >separate from interior Earth models). you're the only one that got it, gertie. true, but we can at least get half a wrong idea about what we think we don't know. >>> hate to tell you, but vess has some valid points. well, they >>> aren't his, but they are being proven more and more. we [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>for coupled atmospheric and oceanic modeling (which again are still >>separate from interior Earth models). > you're the only one that got it, gertie. > true, but we can at least get half a wrong idea about what > we think we don't know. LOL Too true. In scientific research the world over, I theorize that there is a huge impact made by two important and related phenomena: lack of time, and the so-called "hand of god". The former means that nobody has the time to really check another person's work thoroughly, indepdendent research is tough to get these days. The latter shows up when time limits make good scientific analysis impossible, and the interpid sorcerer fudges a few things here and there :-) Happens with students in the Master thesis a lot, but with the "publish or perish" policy these days, almost anything goes! The bottom line is: "Everybody loves a good picture but not everybody is prepared to argue the definition of good". SignatureGernot Hassenpflug (gernot@rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp) Tel: +81 774 38-3866 JSPS Fellow (Rm.403, RISH, Kyoto Uni.) Fax: +81 774 31-8463 www.rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp/radar-group/members/gernot Mob: +81 90 39493924 >> In article <87y7uxugs1.fsf@mb3.seikyou.ne.jp>, Gernot Hassenpflug >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >"Everybody loves a good picture but not everybody is prepared to argue >the definition of good". and in a world where the concept of good enough is acceptable, fudge can come from shitty sources. > Maybe the pagans were right all along and maybe we should give human > sacrfice a second chance - I nominate V*ss. Possible confilct..........human is the operative word and Vess is a virus. > and now scientists have measured light sources to find dust > and pollution have cut visible light by 20% over much of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > freeze. > we are so f.cking clever we need to be protected from it. Why are you responding to a troll that promised to never post on rms again if his nemesis GWB won the 2004 election? Vess is like herpes, an infection that only goes into remission but never fully leaves. >> In article <Fvatg.134$Cu3.58@fe07.lga>, "Vess Irvine" > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >again if his nemesis GWB won the 2004 election? Vess is like herpes, an >infection that only goes into remission but never fully leaves. because i have this ridiculous belief in the first amendment and a dislike of control freaks. i don't remember volunteering to fight your battles. > and now scientists have measured light sources to find dust > and pollution have cut visible light by 20% over much of the > globe. so if there was global warming, we would have a much > colder climate. You need to understand the effects of such things in different parts of the atmosphere. Global warming in the lower atmosphere is accompnaied by global cooling at higher altitudes, due to interactions between chemical processes, physical processes and dynamics. > one climitoligist took the rare oppurtunity of the days > after 9/11 when aircraft were grounded to measure how much > lisght controls blocked.....a very large chunk of the 20%. > so we clean up the air and roast, or clean up the heat and > freeze. See above. What is clear is that the mechanisms that control the distribution of energy from the equator to the poles need to be maintained, else we will freeze in one part and fry in another. The problem is that the Earth system can only handle extremes up to a certain (unknown) extent in either direction - since it is the same system overall. So if it gets too hot or too cold in any area, the system has a possibility of becoming unstalbe (either all the atmosphere escapes into space, or condenses thicker and thicker, or chemical composition changes may occur which make human life as we know it impossible). > we are so f.cking clever we need to be protected from it. "Ignorance frequently engenders more confidence than does knowledge". Said by (from memory)? ... Charles Darwin. SignatureGernot Hassenpflug (gernot@rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp) Tel: +81 774 38-3866 JSPS Fellow (Rm.403, RISH, Kyoto Uni.) Fax: +81 774 31-8463 www.rish.kyoto-u.ac.jp/radar-group/members/gernot Mob: +81 90 39493924 >> and now scientists have measured light sources to find dust >> and pollution have cut visible light by 20% over much of the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >"Ignorance frequently engenders more confidence than does knowledge". >Said by (from memory)? ... Charles Darwin. sounds like chuckie... i know what you're saying. look at the atlantic conveyor. it's weakening and slowing. so we could get an ice age because of global warming. sounds contrarian, but that seems to be the way it works. > >"Ignorance frequently engenders more confidence than does knowledge". > >Said by (from memory)? ... Charles Darwin. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > because of global warming. sounds contrarian, but that seems > to be the way it works. It would most immediately affect NW Europe as the cold water sloshing down from the Pole would cut off the warm Gulf Stream waters. Of course, any effects there would push changes elsewhere, as noted. Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. >> In article <873bd5vvmz.fsf@mb3.seikyou.ne.jp>, Gernot Hassenpflug > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr. that seems to be happening. even england is roasting this year. > Hi Bill: > > Good point. You shoulda stopped there. The rest of your crap belongs in a political newsgroup - alt.politics, or some such. So does the other political blather in this newsgroup, but that's a different story. The wacko fringes don't stand a chance in a dedicated newsgroup, so they spout their OT junk in a newsgroup where the nodding heads will just pretend it doesn't smell. Want to know why r.m.s. has half the traffic it used to? The political crap spewed by the know-littles. E.P. > Want to know why r.m.s. has half the traffic it used to? The political > crap spewed by the know-littles. I do know why, but it's two reasons, really: 1. Many ISPs no longer carry USENET groups like r.m.s. You can still access them after a fashion, #2 below explains why people don't. 2. Because of the www there are many more specialized modeling sites. These are much more appealing than general sites like this to most modelers. Although it is much more exciting to blame politics or off-topic posts for the decline in postings, the reality is much more mundane. KL > > Want to know why r.m.s. has half the traffic it used to? The political > > crap spewed by the know-littles. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 1. Many ISPs no longer carry USENET groups like r.m.s. You can still access > them after a fashion, #2 below explains why people don't. You can get at just about anything, for free, with Google. > 2. Because of the www there are many more specialized modeling sites. These > are much more appealing than general sites like this to most modelers. Yes, but you are looking at the result, and not the cause. > Although it is much more exciting to blame politics or off-topic posts for > the decline in postings, the reality is much more mundane. Look at the traffic before the run-up to the last two elections, and then the traffic after. In both cases, a large drop-off of postings. Some folks came back, but not all. The reason those internet sites do well is because they don't suffer from the blowhards who feel the need to vent spleen in usenet, but don't have the courage to do it in front of the appropriate crowd. And it's really too bad - I learned a ton from r.m.s., and laughed at my own misfortunes mirrored in other hobbyists' reports of woes, but this group just hasn't been the same after the y2k elections. And it went even further downhill after 2k4. I suspect 2k6 and 2k8 will do it in entirely. E.P. |
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